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Notice: This is a daughter article of Jesus Christ - It was taken from the mother page made to alleviate the size of the older article. WhisperToMe 07:19, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)
As discussed on the RFD page, there is some reason to believe that the title of this article is POV. The problem is that some religions discusssed in the article are not "non-Christian" as a matter of fact. Rather, their "non-Christianity" is a POV. Examples include the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Jehovah's Witnesses, Gnosticism, and Arianism. Thus, we either need a new title, or we need to move these perspectives to Jesus Christ as the Messiah. My suggestion: Lets move them there. COGDEN 06:52, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Agree 100%. This article is very bad. It isn't long enough to have been split out of Jesus. And it is, in my opinion, poor NPOV practice to sequester POVs you don't like in obscure articles like this. This stuff needs to be put back into a major article. Tom - Talk 16:07, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
COGDEN 21:13, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
This article was listed on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion Feb 20 to Feb 26 2004. Discussion:
Can I suggest Perspectives on Jesus by Non-Abrahamic religions? CheeseDreams 20:15, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
This title is POV, because Jehovah's Witnesses and Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints think themselves Christians, but this article insists that they are non-christians. I think this article is based on Catholics and Protestants views. Rantaro 13:21, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
And Arianism was a major faction of 4th century Christianity. As for the question of Jesus being married to Mary Magdalene , is it NPOV to state that this is strictly a non-Christian belief? User: Dimadick
In which case, merge the Arianism and JW etc. views into Christian views of Jesus CheeseDreams 20:18, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Now that the title of the article has been changed, can the 'NPOV dispute' tag be removed? If not, what issues still need to be resolved? Wesley 03:06, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
If your faith honestly comports to this and does not add in things which contradict it, then "Christian" is a fair word.
However, the issue of being "Born Again" is entirely another thing. Each person must make their own personal apprehension of faith. Those that make one in Jesus's name and by His blood are born again.
Therefore, persons attending or particpating in a Christian religion/denomination who have not made a personal apprehension of faith, are not Born Again Christians
Hopefully this clears things up.
[[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 05:29, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I just removed all the groups that I know to be Christian. I apologize for leaving Urantia if that is also Christian. I belive Bahai is a separate world religion and not Christian. If I have been wrong, some Bahai adherent please correct us and remove Bahai from this article. Please do not add Christian groups to this list. Tom - Talk 16:04, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
There has been controversial speculation over the years concerning whether Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene. Some Gnostic traditions hold that this was so, though the Biblical Gospels make no mention of such a marriage. Some have countered that the Gospels also make no direct reference to Jesus remaining single, which, it can be argued, would have been noteworthy in a society in which marriage would have been expected. Several epistles of the New Testament describe Jesus as a bridegroom whose bride is the Church. The Urantia Book holds that Jesus was not married.
In order to try to work out the relationship between all the various pages and hopefully get some consensus, I have opened a WikiProject to centralize discussion and debate. We've got several "conflicted" pages at the moment, and without centralizing discussion, it's going to get very confusing. Please join the project, if you're interested in the topic, and start discussions on the talk page. (We need to create a to-do list, but I think the current state is too conflicted to decide even that.) Mpolo 10:49, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
"Religious perspective" can have two meanings. It can either mean "a perspective on religion", which it does not mean in the context of this article, though if it did you'd be OK with leaving "irreligious" people in the article, just not atheists or agnostics. The second meaning, the one used in this article, is "a perspective that is religious". Using that definition, we should remove the atheist, agnostic, and irreligious perspectives from this article:
The deist one can stay if there's something especially noteworthy about how deists feel about Jesus; it sounds more to me like someone just felt like mentioning deism for no reason because of their general lack of beliefs regarding what Jesus is or isn't. Why not just say "Everyone not mentioned above probably doesn't really have a strong opinion one way or another on Jesus, and likely just thinks he was a nice guy." It says about as much. There are numerous articles for secular and nonreligious views on jesus, such as historical Jesus and historicity of Jesus. There's no reason to have it in the article specifically focused on religious perspectives too, blurring the article's focus and casting a POV judgment on the nature of lack of belief in theism. So let's not. - Silence 04:27, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Why has all Scientology material been removed? LamontCranston 10:55, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I added the Scientological understanding of Jesus - i'm sick of people treating scientology like a cult, it is the fastest growing religion in the United States *Faster than Islam AND Christianity* and should be treated like any of the other major religions.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/04statab/pop.pdf Johnor 08:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
How can Scientology be considered a religion when they have no God(s)? Anker99 04:24, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Religion. Religion is a system of social coherence based on a common group of beliefs or attitudes concerning an object, person, unseen being, or system of thought considered to be supernatural, sacred, divine or highest truth, and the moral codes, practices, values, institutions, and rituals associated with such belief or system of thought. Hence, Scientology. Chopper Dave 04:43, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Because they made the claim so as not to pay taxes and protect themselves after the Feds starting getting wise about Dianetics [psychoanalysis with the all sorts of half-baked 'science-y' words thrown in plus past life regression and conducted with the aid of a galvanometer and 2 soup cans] and the many bogus claims made about what it could do for you, not to mention their unsavory practices. LamontCranston 10:17, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I was asked to comment here about the inclusion of the above. I'd be inclined to leave it out myself, because it's not clear that their beliefs about Jesus differ from a mainstream Christian perspective, so they wouldn't represent anything new or interesting, and it's also a very small group. SlimVirgin (talk) 05:56, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Is there a reason why there are three columns in part of this page? It's not normal Wikipedia style, and it's much harder to read, and doesn't scale well for smaller window sizes. If noone minds, I'll remove the columns. -- Jeff3000 02:42, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
I think it would be well-placed in this article. The Jade Knight 01:10, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
The section is far too long for this extreme minority view. KittyHawker 21:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I have a problem with the recent addition of "and other" to the title of this article. It's too broad— how is "Religious and other perspectives on Jesus" different from just "perspectives on Jesus?"? How does it differ from the Jesus article? "Other" prespectives also includes secular historical views re: Historical Jesus and Historicity of Jesus. That said, I also think that Philosophical perspectives on Jesus deserves an article. Arch O. La 06:41, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Isnt Jesus considered a prophet(but not a messiah) by some iranian sexts of Zoroastrianism? See this:
http://www.avesta.org/dhalla/history2.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.9.228.44 ( talk) 03:53, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
To make the data easier to read, it could be a good idea to have a table, with beliefs across the tops, and different religions down the side. Eg "Believe Jesus Existed", "Believe Jesus is God", "Believe Jesus is the son of God", "Believe Jesus went to India". I'd do it myself but I don't have so much time (though I may try) Chopper Dave 22:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Believe Jesus Existed | Believe Jesus is God | Believe Jesus is the son of God | Believe Jesus went to India | |
---|---|---|---|---|
Christianity | Yes | Yes | Yes | No |
Hinduism | Yes | No | Yes | Yes |
etc? Chopper Dave 00:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Dear Fellow Wikipedians,
One of the delights in surveying much of the rhetoric of apparent reason is finding that beneath the glib surface of cool confidence lurks so many unruly passions that remain unexamined in that state of mind oriented toward acquisition and material control over one at home in a state of progressive intellectual inquiry. Few things seem to elicit turbulence in this arena of mind more than the study of Jesus that becomes manifest in the comparative survey of the range of sustained observation, experience, and study of his life. Indeed, it would appear that anxiety operates proportionate to one's investment in 'authorized' i.e. existing cultural 'forms' defined by dogmatic defenses against what are seen as unruly intrusions of the dynamic of human experience. It is hoped that the editorial character of this online reference would value the investigation and accurate representation of textual sources commented upon more than unstudied opinions reacting to perceptions of sources, and especially those lacking approval in or from prevailing patterns of the culture at large.
Gratefully,
Daynal 08:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Rob Davis
Dear C. Logan,
Thank you for clarifying the importance of unnamed sources to rationalize deletion without dialogue contributions giving priority to original sources in a written article. Appeals to popularity of unnamed references underscore the value of peer review as a viable means of maintaining trust required for expanded sharing. Alas, 'minority view' is but a frame of mind that in terminology of local acronyms translates to POV. Nevertheless, should an article on what 'a' religion is and how it comes to frame ensuing "religious perspectives" be undertaken, I will gladly contribute to the labor of any at home with a taste for philosophy more than the manufacture of mythology feigning as 'fact'.
Gratefully,
Daynal 21:37, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Rob
Dear C. Logan,
Certainly your rationale is understood even if it does represent a reductionist model for assessing relative strengths of various social 'groups', religious or otherwise. Religious groupings as defined by ecclesiastical hierarchies is inflated for political and enonomic reasons, and even then, only 'count' persons on the 'rolls' rather than actually supportive which is a bit like the US Government boasting wealth while ignoring the vacuous base of its currency.
Such a methodology is useful for 'groups' sponsored and or sanctioned by governments whose own census methodologies are but a means to maintain oversight and control. 'Groups' with little or 'no' infrastructure are 'invisible' only because their objectives are intangible, focused as they should be, upon the value of spiritual reality more than visible and material interests.
The citizens of this world have discarded these traditional methods for controlling their thought used throughout history to define what is authentic and/or acceptable spiritual experience. Anyone attuned to cultural trends, and if not, 'official' demographic patterns, recognize the true state of 'mainline' status in the most prominent organizations whose institutional decline make hollow any claims of majority status and pose interesting questions as to what it is that is represented by the term 'religion', that notwithstanding demise of traditional models, is alive, well, and growing throughout the world, albeit, in vastly more fluid 'forms'.
Gratefully,
Daynal 22:18, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Rob
Dear C. Logan,
Thank you for your willingness to engage in dialogue on this matter! This in itself reinforces the legitimacy of Wikipedia content.
However, the WP policy regarding a minority 'view' cannot be applied as it is not a quantitative measure, but one that must forever presume upon a quantitative methodology while relying upon purely qualitative considerations. The methodology you represent could be very well applied to an article on Jesus as represented in the major world 'religions', but is misleading when governing religious 'perspectives' on Jesus or anything else. The former can easily comply with WP criteria on this point, but the latter will never as it is entirely subjective.
Regardless of the ambiguity of WP terminology, the verifiable 'fact' towering above this subjective fog is that of all the 'religious perspectives' found in 'religious' literature throughout the world, including the New Testament, none feature a more prominent focus upon the life of Jesus, and none provide such extensive details which are being quietly examined by as many theologians, philosophers, scientists, and as well, the most influential performing artists that have ever have lived on this planet.
Gratefully,
Daynal 19:23, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Rob
Dear C. Logan,
I respect the requirement of a 'solid' quantitative criteria to ascertain the general acceptance of views, but in the absence of any reference to 'solid' data from sources authenticated by an inclusive 'group' of editors, the appeal to mere perceptions of popularity only underscores the vacuity of these 'mainline' claims. Nevertheless, it may prove helpful to recall that almost without exception, the religions you recognize as 'major' were all "dreamed up" by persons living on the margins of their respective 'civilizations'.
Gratefully,
Daynal 23:54, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Rob
"There needs to be some clarification as to what is meant by "did not claim to be God incarnate". As one might expect, there are a great number of Christians who would also argue that Jesus never claimed that "I am God" or something along those lines of clarity. Throughout the whole of the New Testament, only hints are given concerning the nature of Christ. Therefore, the phraseology of these passage may be misleading. It polarizes the issue by placing "Christians" on one end of the spectrum and "Scholars" on the other end. As I've pointed out, the problem here lies in the fact that in the current ambiguity of the statement, many Christians would affirm the view held by scholars (which is given here as an apparently opposing opinion), and therefore the perceived discrepancy between religious scholars and "Christians" would appear to be somewhat of a misleading picture."
Why is there a separate section on Latter Day Saint perspectives on Jesus when their views are already discussed under the Christianity section? It unbalences the article. Can't we refer to a more detailed article on LDS beliefs? Many of these 'views' are not about Jesus at all. DJ Clayworth ( talk) 16:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:Rouault head of christ.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 20:45, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
The Baha'i view of Jesus has been edited with the aim of making it more concise and readable. Daniel De Mol ( talk) 11:10, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
I keep wondering what the worst article in WikiProject Christianity is. I think after the Salvation and Second Coming of Christ article group, the Christianity section here is in the running. For Heaven's sake, the same, the very same (and not exactly correct) Christological diagram appears within this page twice! And that is just the tip of the iceberg of problems. I tagged the Christian section for a rewrite, and I think 80% of that section should just be deleted for that material is "correctly" covered elsewhere and does not need to be here as part of this rummage sale. The only consolation here is that the page gets less than 2,000 views a month... sigh... History2007 ( talk) 20:55, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
Considering that modern atheism is now by at least some governments recognized as a religion, it makes sense to me that maybe we have some material included regarding views of Jesus specifically relevant to the atheist community. John Carter ( talk) 18:21, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
Actually, if I were to restructure this article, I might break it up into three major sections:
Just an idea, anyway. John Carter ( talk) 19:26, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
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On the island of Reunion, malbars hindus have never made any syncretism between Hinduism and Catholicism. At the time, it was mainly a question of practicing the two religions separately. the practice of Hinduism being frowned upon by the Christian majority. Nowadays, with the fact that Hinduism is no longer seen necessarily negatively, many people have decided to choose one religion or the other. Those who practice both remain in the minority, but they always practice it separately.
There are perhaps people who can make a syncretism between the two religions, but this remains an individual opinion and not a common practice among the Hindus of Reunion Island, and even in this case they never associated krishna birthday with hindu birthday.
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Notice: This is a daughter article of Jesus Christ - It was taken from the mother page made to alleviate the size of the older article. WhisperToMe 07:19, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)
As discussed on the RFD page, there is some reason to believe that the title of this article is POV. The problem is that some religions discusssed in the article are not "non-Christian" as a matter of fact. Rather, their "non-Christianity" is a POV. Examples include the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Jehovah's Witnesses, Gnosticism, and Arianism. Thus, we either need a new title, or we need to move these perspectives to Jesus Christ as the Messiah. My suggestion: Lets move them there. COGDEN 06:52, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Agree 100%. This article is very bad. It isn't long enough to have been split out of Jesus. And it is, in my opinion, poor NPOV practice to sequester POVs you don't like in obscure articles like this. This stuff needs to be put back into a major article. Tom - Talk 16:07, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
COGDEN 21:13, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
This article was listed on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion Feb 20 to Feb 26 2004. Discussion:
Can I suggest Perspectives on Jesus by Non-Abrahamic religions? CheeseDreams 20:15, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
This title is POV, because Jehovah's Witnesses and Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints think themselves Christians, but this article insists that they are non-christians. I think this article is based on Catholics and Protestants views. Rantaro 13:21, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
And Arianism was a major faction of 4th century Christianity. As for the question of Jesus being married to Mary Magdalene , is it NPOV to state that this is strictly a non-Christian belief? User: Dimadick
In which case, merge the Arianism and JW etc. views into Christian views of Jesus CheeseDreams 20:18, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Now that the title of the article has been changed, can the 'NPOV dispute' tag be removed? If not, what issues still need to be resolved? Wesley 03:06, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
If your faith honestly comports to this and does not add in things which contradict it, then "Christian" is a fair word.
However, the issue of being "Born Again" is entirely another thing. Each person must make their own personal apprehension of faith. Those that make one in Jesus's name and by His blood are born again.
Therefore, persons attending or particpating in a Christian religion/denomination who have not made a personal apprehension of faith, are not Born Again Christians
Hopefully this clears things up.
[[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 05:29, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I just removed all the groups that I know to be Christian. I apologize for leaving Urantia if that is also Christian. I belive Bahai is a separate world religion and not Christian. If I have been wrong, some Bahai adherent please correct us and remove Bahai from this article. Please do not add Christian groups to this list. Tom - Talk 16:04, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
There has been controversial speculation over the years concerning whether Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene. Some Gnostic traditions hold that this was so, though the Biblical Gospels make no mention of such a marriage. Some have countered that the Gospels also make no direct reference to Jesus remaining single, which, it can be argued, would have been noteworthy in a society in which marriage would have been expected. Several epistles of the New Testament describe Jesus as a bridegroom whose bride is the Church. The Urantia Book holds that Jesus was not married.
In order to try to work out the relationship between all the various pages and hopefully get some consensus, I have opened a WikiProject to centralize discussion and debate. We've got several "conflicted" pages at the moment, and without centralizing discussion, it's going to get very confusing. Please join the project, if you're interested in the topic, and start discussions on the talk page. (We need to create a to-do list, but I think the current state is too conflicted to decide even that.) Mpolo 10:49, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
"Religious perspective" can have two meanings. It can either mean "a perspective on religion", which it does not mean in the context of this article, though if it did you'd be OK with leaving "irreligious" people in the article, just not atheists or agnostics. The second meaning, the one used in this article, is "a perspective that is religious". Using that definition, we should remove the atheist, agnostic, and irreligious perspectives from this article:
The deist one can stay if there's something especially noteworthy about how deists feel about Jesus; it sounds more to me like someone just felt like mentioning deism for no reason because of their general lack of beliefs regarding what Jesus is or isn't. Why not just say "Everyone not mentioned above probably doesn't really have a strong opinion one way or another on Jesus, and likely just thinks he was a nice guy." It says about as much. There are numerous articles for secular and nonreligious views on jesus, such as historical Jesus and historicity of Jesus. There's no reason to have it in the article specifically focused on religious perspectives too, blurring the article's focus and casting a POV judgment on the nature of lack of belief in theism. So let's not. - Silence 04:27, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Why has all Scientology material been removed? LamontCranston 10:55, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I added the Scientological understanding of Jesus - i'm sick of people treating scientology like a cult, it is the fastest growing religion in the United States *Faster than Islam AND Christianity* and should be treated like any of the other major religions.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/04statab/pop.pdf Johnor 08:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
How can Scientology be considered a religion when they have no God(s)? Anker99 04:24, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Religion. Religion is a system of social coherence based on a common group of beliefs or attitudes concerning an object, person, unseen being, or system of thought considered to be supernatural, sacred, divine or highest truth, and the moral codes, practices, values, institutions, and rituals associated with such belief or system of thought. Hence, Scientology. Chopper Dave 04:43, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Because they made the claim so as not to pay taxes and protect themselves after the Feds starting getting wise about Dianetics [psychoanalysis with the all sorts of half-baked 'science-y' words thrown in plus past life regression and conducted with the aid of a galvanometer and 2 soup cans] and the many bogus claims made about what it could do for you, not to mention their unsavory practices. LamontCranston 10:17, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I was asked to comment here about the inclusion of the above. I'd be inclined to leave it out myself, because it's not clear that their beliefs about Jesus differ from a mainstream Christian perspective, so they wouldn't represent anything new or interesting, and it's also a very small group. SlimVirgin (talk) 05:56, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Is there a reason why there are three columns in part of this page? It's not normal Wikipedia style, and it's much harder to read, and doesn't scale well for smaller window sizes. If noone minds, I'll remove the columns. -- Jeff3000 02:42, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
I think it would be well-placed in this article. The Jade Knight 01:10, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
The section is far too long for this extreme minority view. KittyHawker 21:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I have a problem with the recent addition of "and other" to the title of this article. It's too broad— how is "Religious and other perspectives on Jesus" different from just "perspectives on Jesus?"? How does it differ from the Jesus article? "Other" prespectives also includes secular historical views re: Historical Jesus and Historicity of Jesus. That said, I also think that Philosophical perspectives on Jesus deserves an article. Arch O. La 06:41, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Isnt Jesus considered a prophet(but not a messiah) by some iranian sexts of Zoroastrianism? See this:
http://www.avesta.org/dhalla/history2.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.9.228.44 ( talk) 03:53, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
To make the data easier to read, it could be a good idea to have a table, with beliefs across the tops, and different religions down the side. Eg "Believe Jesus Existed", "Believe Jesus is God", "Believe Jesus is the son of God", "Believe Jesus went to India". I'd do it myself but I don't have so much time (though I may try) Chopper Dave 22:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Believe Jesus Existed | Believe Jesus is God | Believe Jesus is the son of God | Believe Jesus went to India | |
---|---|---|---|---|
Christianity | Yes | Yes | Yes | No |
Hinduism | Yes | No | Yes | Yes |
etc? Chopper Dave 00:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Dear Fellow Wikipedians,
One of the delights in surveying much of the rhetoric of apparent reason is finding that beneath the glib surface of cool confidence lurks so many unruly passions that remain unexamined in that state of mind oriented toward acquisition and material control over one at home in a state of progressive intellectual inquiry. Few things seem to elicit turbulence in this arena of mind more than the study of Jesus that becomes manifest in the comparative survey of the range of sustained observation, experience, and study of his life. Indeed, it would appear that anxiety operates proportionate to one's investment in 'authorized' i.e. existing cultural 'forms' defined by dogmatic defenses against what are seen as unruly intrusions of the dynamic of human experience. It is hoped that the editorial character of this online reference would value the investigation and accurate representation of textual sources commented upon more than unstudied opinions reacting to perceptions of sources, and especially those lacking approval in or from prevailing patterns of the culture at large.
Gratefully,
Daynal 08:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Rob Davis
Dear C. Logan,
Thank you for clarifying the importance of unnamed sources to rationalize deletion without dialogue contributions giving priority to original sources in a written article. Appeals to popularity of unnamed references underscore the value of peer review as a viable means of maintaining trust required for expanded sharing. Alas, 'minority view' is but a frame of mind that in terminology of local acronyms translates to POV. Nevertheless, should an article on what 'a' religion is and how it comes to frame ensuing "religious perspectives" be undertaken, I will gladly contribute to the labor of any at home with a taste for philosophy more than the manufacture of mythology feigning as 'fact'.
Gratefully,
Daynal 21:37, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Rob
Dear C. Logan,
Certainly your rationale is understood even if it does represent a reductionist model for assessing relative strengths of various social 'groups', religious or otherwise. Religious groupings as defined by ecclesiastical hierarchies is inflated for political and enonomic reasons, and even then, only 'count' persons on the 'rolls' rather than actually supportive which is a bit like the US Government boasting wealth while ignoring the vacuous base of its currency.
Such a methodology is useful for 'groups' sponsored and or sanctioned by governments whose own census methodologies are but a means to maintain oversight and control. 'Groups' with little or 'no' infrastructure are 'invisible' only because their objectives are intangible, focused as they should be, upon the value of spiritual reality more than visible and material interests.
The citizens of this world have discarded these traditional methods for controlling their thought used throughout history to define what is authentic and/or acceptable spiritual experience. Anyone attuned to cultural trends, and if not, 'official' demographic patterns, recognize the true state of 'mainline' status in the most prominent organizations whose institutional decline make hollow any claims of majority status and pose interesting questions as to what it is that is represented by the term 'religion', that notwithstanding demise of traditional models, is alive, well, and growing throughout the world, albeit, in vastly more fluid 'forms'.
Gratefully,
Daynal 22:18, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Rob
Dear C. Logan,
Thank you for your willingness to engage in dialogue on this matter! This in itself reinforces the legitimacy of Wikipedia content.
However, the WP policy regarding a minority 'view' cannot be applied as it is not a quantitative measure, but one that must forever presume upon a quantitative methodology while relying upon purely qualitative considerations. The methodology you represent could be very well applied to an article on Jesus as represented in the major world 'religions', but is misleading when governing religious 'perspectives' on Jesus or anything else. The former can easily comply with WP criteria on this point, but the latter will never as it is entirely subjective.
Regardless of the ambiguity of WP terminology, the verifiable 'fact' towering above this subjective fog is that of all the 'religious perspectives' found in 'religious' literature throughout the world, including the New Testament, none feature a more prominent focus upon the life of Jesus, and none provide such extensive details which are being quietly examined by as many theologians, philosophers, scientists, and as well, the most influential performing artists that have ever have lived on this planet.
Gratefully,
Daynal 19:23, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Rob
Dear C. Logan,
I respect the requirement of a 'solid' quantitative criteria to ascertain the general acceptance of views, but in the absence of any reference to 'solid' data from sources authenticated by an inclusive 'group' of editors, the appeal to mere perceptions of popularity only underscores the vacuity of these 'mainline' claims. Nevertheless, it may prove helpful to recall that almost without exception, the religions you recognize as 'major' were all "dreamed up" by persons living on the margins of their respective 'civilizations'.
Gratefully,
Daynal 23:54, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Rob
"There needs to be some clarification as to what is meant by "did not claim to be God incarnate". As one might expect, there are a great number of Christians who would also argue that Jesus never claimed that "I am God" or something along those lines of clarity. Throughout the whole of the New Testament, only hints are given concerning the nature of Christ. Therefore, the phraseology of these passage may be misleading. It polarizes the issue by placing "Christians" on one end of the spectrum and "Scholars" on the other end. As I've pointed out, the problem here lies in the fact that in the current ambiguity of the statement, many Christians would affirm the view held by scholars (which is given here as an apparently opposing opinion), and therefore the perceived discrepancy between religious scholars and "Christians" would appear to be somewhat of a misleading picture."
Why is there a separate section on Latter Day Saint perspectives on Jesus when their views are already discussed under the Christianity section? It unbalences the article. Can't we refer to a more detailed article on LDS beliefs? Many of these 'views' are not about Jesus at all. DJ Clayworth ( talk) 16:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:Rouault head of christ.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
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The Baha'i view of Jesus has been edited with the aim of making it more concise and readable. Daniel De Mol ( talk) 11:10, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
I keep wondering what the worst article in WikiProject Christianity is. I think after the Salvation and Second Coming of Christ article group, the Christianity section here is in the running. For Heaven's sake, the same, the very same (and not exactly correct) Christological diagram appears within this page twice! And that is just the tip of the iceberg of problems. I tagged the Christian section for a rewrite, and I think 80% of that section should just be deleted for that material is "correctly" covered elsewhere and does not need to be here as part of this rummage sale. The only consolation here is that the page gets less than 2,000 views a month... sigh... History2007 ( talk) 20:55, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
Considering that modern atheism is now by at least some governments recognized as a religion, it makes sense to me that maybe we have some material included regarding views of Jesus specifically relevant to the atheist community. John Carter ( talk) 18:21, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
Actually, if I were to restructure this article, I might break it up into three major sections:
Just an idea, anyway. John Carter ( talk) 19:26, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
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On the island of Reunion, malbars hindus have never made any syncretism between Hinduism and Catholicism. At the time, it was mainly a question of practicing the two religions separately. the practice of Hinduism being frowned upon by the Christian majority. Nowadays, with the fact that Hinduism is no longer seen necessarily negatively, many people have decided to choose one religion or the other. Those who practice both remain in the minority, but they always practice it separately.
There are perhaps people who can make a syncretism between the two religions, but this remains an individual opinion and not a common practice among the Hindus of Reunion Island, and even in this case they never associated krishna birthday with hindu birthday.