This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Religion and drugs article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of an educational assignment in Spring 2015. Further details were available on the "Education Program:Duquesne University/UCOR 143 Global and Cultural Perspectives (Spring 2015)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki. |
Text and/or other creative content from this version of Soma (drink) was copied or moved into Religion and drugs with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Guys what does the first sentence mean? It seems nonsensical. (The sentence is "Many religion may also play a significant part in the development of religion and religious views as well as in rituals.") — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.11.230.77 ( talk) 17:56, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
The last section of this page is currently "modern research" which says:
As far as I can discern, this is completely and totally irrelevant to the rest of the article. How is this related to the use of drugs in religion? If it is, maybe someone could add a few sentences that explain the connection to the rest of the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fluck ( talk • contribs) 13:12, 15 May 2007 (UTC).
This image relates it to cannabis as seen on it's deletion page. (It is just an image of the paths of tiferet in the kabbalistic tree of life) I tried to post it on various other discussions and after being met with a bit of "redirection", I am here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:godislove.png (I recently renamed the file to a properly formatted name but it was merged into this name by MSJapan to make it easier to delete, fair enough)-- TaylorOliphant ( talk) 03:17, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Wish I knew about this article in the first place. The freemasonry discussion page was probably the worst possible choice based on the reaction I got -didn't know I'm new. =)
-- TaylorOliphant ( talk) 23:28, 8 February 2008 (UTC) (forgot to sign this the first time -cannabis has a few side effects, be careful) =)
I read somewhere (I forgot where) that LSD is so readily available because Evangelists were producing them. It said that they didn't really care about the money (which is why LSD is relatively cheap), and that they just wanted everyone to try it. It was online somewhere, so I'm not sure if it was a credible source. But if anyone else knows anything about that, maybe they should add it to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.182.146.25 ( talk) 00:05, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
How is this page different from the enormous and more detailed, and definitely more cited, wikipage entheogens? These two pages should somehow be merged, I propose. --makeswell 23:42, 25 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Makeswell ( talk • contribs)
p.s. Does anybody really care enough to undertake this project? Is this just a dumping ground for stoners at home who need something to do with their high bodies?--makeswell 23:44, 25 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Makeswell ( talk • contribs)
Sorry if this isn’t how I do this correctly but I don’t see any reason to merge the two articles. Presumably, an article that is supposed to be about “Religion and Drugs” just in general simply isn’t going to be synonymous or interchangeable with an article specifically focused on ethnographic cases and traditions of psychoactives used particularly for ritualistic/religious or divinitory purposes. An article that is just broadly about “religion and drugs” is probably largely going to mostly include social and/or ethnological aspects such as idealized conceptualizations recognized as being in the form of “religious views” held by certain ethno- or socioreligious groups. Views held possibly towards a specific drug, or towards a certain conglomeration and category of drugs as well as an overview (in theory) of the potential philosophical, hermeneutical, exegetical, customary and cultural relationships and interpretations that numerous theological and culturo-religious complexes possess towards some drugs.
For example, you can probably see a decent amount of historical instances in which Western Christendom demonized different hallucinogenics; ranging from Solanaceae in the late medieval Old World, to psilocybin mushrooms in the Early modern New World during the Spanish conquest; both ethnobiological complexes demonized or condemned on religious grounds, but not on “entheogenic grounds” per say. It’s also worth perhaps discussing such nuances between how, say a religion like Islam views cannabis in contrast to how it views say alcohol; the latter which the faith explicitly forbids. But the former item, (cannabis) neither seems explicitly forbidden nor actively encouraged ritually (entheogenically) by the Quran last I checked. Tidbits or scriptural and customary niceties like this are worth their own article and appear to be numerous enough to justify general notability as well as plenty of room for reasoning with respect to a separation between the two articles.
There’s also the whole thing about Mormons and their views on psychoactives. I’m not even sure if “Mormon tea” (type of ephedra?) was ever used by the actual group itself or if it was ever considered an “entheogen” by the group, most likely not but I’ll probably check again soon. Anyways, these are just but a few potential examples off the top my head. So there’s really, potentially a LOT that can go into an article that is more broadly about “drugs and religion”, that is not specifically about substances used in actual rituals for sacral/entheogenic purposes. An content example could also be as simple as how a particular religious group at one time treated or approached another religious group’s possible utilization of a certain drug (again, think Spanish conquistadors in Mesoamerica). --anonymous 18:05, 01 June 2024 (UTC)—Preceding unsigned comment added by anonymous
What is Most Christian denominations disapprove of the use of most illicit drugs intended to mean?
Generally, the term illicit implies that something is disapproved off
Therefore, it seems to lack real meaning without identifiction of the source of the disapproval
If the source is Christianity, then does the sentence say anymore than that Christianity disapproves of some drug use, without really specifying what drugs or what manner of use?
Laurel Bush (
talk)
15:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
It seems that the majority of the beginning of the section on Judaism has no citation.
Daniel Merkur's books cover drugs in judaism, such as 'The Psychedelic Sacrament'-- 92.236.35.88 ( talk) 09:38, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
I added a section to cover Wasson's theories about Buddhism from his book 'Persephone's Quest'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.35.88 ( talk) 23:22, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
I have edited the text to remove the unsourced suggestions that Buddhists have been historically anti drugs, because i can find no source to back up that claim. With the exception of alcoholic beverages, there does not appear to be any prohibition or advice against the use of other psychoactive drugs in historical Buddhism, so the anti-drugs attitude of modern buddhists appears to be solely a modern (since 1970) phenomenon. Please provide sources to show if this is incorrect.-- 92.236.35.88 ( talk) 23:28, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
The Pāli Canon. Hafspajen ( talk) 19:32, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
I've removed this speculation about "some psychoactive drug mixture, possibly including psilocybe or amanita muscaria mushrooms" inducing the Buddha's "enlightenment experience". The term "enlightenment experience" alone yet shows the editor's lack of understanding (see Robert Sharf, "the rhetorics of meditative experience"); to equate bodhi with psychedelic experiences is WP:FRINGE; it's addition here is WP:UNDUE and WP:POV. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:52, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
Maybe you could be so kind to give a page-number, and the relevant quote from Wasson? Why does Wasson refer to this meal as "the last meal of the Buddha"? I wouldn't be surprised if you're mixing up his meal before his enlightenment, and his last meal before his para-nibbana. See also this blog. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 13:06, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
This article was the subject of an educational assignment in Spring 2015. Further details were available on the "Education Program:Duquesne University/UCOR 143 Global and Cultural Perspectives (Spring 2015)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki. |
This edit was made because of a school project. All information used in order to create this edit was found from the article "The LSD Experience and Zen."
I've removed this addition. The source is outdated (1971); the addition does not mention the context of 60 years of debate on the usage of LSD, the supposed similarities with (Zen) meditation, and the dangers and disadvantages of LSD-usage. What's more, that issue of the Eastern Buddhist contained several articles on "Drugs and Buddhism" : A Symposium See. So, what's the context of this specific article? Rick Fields' How the Swans Came to the Lake: A Narrative History of Buddhism in America contains a literature overview, with a subesction on "Buddhism and the Counterculture." It may provide relevant literature. And see also Ego death#Criticism. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:04, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Religion and drugs/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs at least reference, expansion of some sections, and inline citations. Also may not yet reflect a global view. Badbilltucker 17:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 17:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 04:08, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Religion and drugs. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:19, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
The final paragraph of the " Christianity section goes as thus (footnotes removed):
"The Judeo-Christian Cannabis church Temple 420 believes; People who love God and know cannabis is good medicine. Christian cannabis asks cannabis could be used in beneficial ways to support their lives? The Renown Plantation teaches that is created "good" and known to be in the Holy Anointing oil."
A Google search of " Judeo-Christian Cannabis church Temple 420" turned up only the article of this talk page as a result, so I'm guessing that the paragraph is probably vandalism. Could anyone please tell me if I should delete this?-- Thylacine24 ( talk) 03:29, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Religion and drugs article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of an educational assignment in Spring 2015. Further details were available on the "Education Program:Duquesne University/UCOR 143 Global and Cultural Perspectives (Spring 2015)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki. |
Text and/or other creative content from this version of Soma (drink) was copied or moved into Religion and drugs with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Guys what does the first sentence mean? It seems nonsensical. (The sentence is "Many religion may also play a significant part in the development of religion and religious views as well as in rituals.") — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.11.230.77 ( talk) 17:56, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
The last section of this page is currently "modern research" which says:
As far as I can discern, this is completely and totally irrelevant to the rest of the article. How is this related to the use of drugs in religion? If it is, maybe someone could add a few sentences that explain the connection to the rest of the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fluck ( talk • contribs) 13:12, 15 May 2007 (UTC).
This image relates it to cannabis as seen on it's deletion page. (It is just an image of the paths of tiferet in the kabbalistic tree of life) I tried to post it on various other discussions and after being met with a bit of "redirection", I am here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:godislove.png (I recently renamed the file to a properly formatted name but it was merged into this name by MSJapan to make it easier to delete, fair enough)-- TaylorOliphant ( talk) 03:17, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Wish I knew about this article in the first place. The freemasonry discussion page was probably the worst possible choice based on the reaction I got -didn't know I'm new. =)
-- TaylorOliphant ( talk) 23:28, 8 February 2008 (UTC) (forgot to sign this the first time -cannabis has a few side effects, be careful) =)
I read somewhere (I forgot where) that LSD is so readily available because Evangelists were producing them. It said that they didn't really care about the money (which is why LSD is relatively cheap), and that they just wanted everyone to try it. It was online somewhere, so I'm not sure if it was a credible source. But if anyone else knows anything about that, maybe they should add it to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.182.146.25 ( talk) 00:05, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
How is this page different from the enormous and more detailed, and definitely more cited, wikipage entheogens? These two pages should somehow be merged, I propose. --makeswell 23:42, 25 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Makeswell ( talk • contribs)
p.s. Does anybody really care enough to undertake this project? Is this just a dumping ground for stoners at home who need something to do with their high bodies?--makeswell 23:44, 25 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Makeswell ( talk • contribs)
Sorry if this isn’t how I do this correctly but I don’t see any reason to merge the two articles. Presumably, an article that is supposed to be about “Religion and Drugs” just in general simply isn’t going to be synonymous or interchangeable with an article specifically focused on ethnographic cases and traditions of psychoactives used particularly for ritualistic/religious or divinitory purposes. An article that is just broadly about “religion and drugs” is probably largely going to mostly include social and/or ethnological aspects such as idealized conceptualizations recognized as being in the form of “religious views” held by certain ethno- or socioreligious groups. Views held possibly towards a specific drug, or towards a certain conglomeration and category of drugs as well as an overview (in theory) of the potential philosophical, hermeneutical, exegetical, customary and cultural relationships and interpretations that numerous theological and culturo-religious complexes possess towards some drugs.
For example, you can probably see a decent amount of historical instances in which Western Christendom demonized different hallucinogenics; ranging from Solanaceae in the late medieval Old World, to psilocybin mushrooms in the Early modern New World during the Spanish conquest; both ethnobiological complexes demonized or condemned on religious grounds, but not on “entheogenic grounds” per say. It’s also worth perhaps discussing such nuances between how, say a religion like Islam views cannabis in contrast to how it views say alcohol; the latter which the faith explicitly forbids. But the former item, (cannabis) neither seems explicitly forbidden nor actively encouraged ritually (entheogenically) by the Quran last I checked. Tidbits or scriptural and customary niceties like this are worth their own article and appear to be numerous enough to justify general notability as well as plenty of room for reasoning with respect to a separation between the two articles.
There’s also the whole thing about Mormons and their views on psychoactives. I’m not even sure if “Mormon tea” (type of ephedra?) was ever used by the actual group itself or if it was ever considered an “entheogen” by the group, most likely not but I’ll probably check again soon. Anyways, these are just but a few potential examples off the top my head. So there’s really, potentially a LOT that can go into an article that is more broadly about “drugs and religion”, that is not specifically about substances used in actual rituals for sacral/entheogenic purposes. An content example could also be as simple as how a particular religious group at one time treated or approached another religious group’s possible utilization of a certain drug (again, think Spanish conquistadors in Mesoamerica). --anonymous 18:05, 01 June 2024 (UTC)—Preceding unsigned comment added by anonymous
What is Most Christian denominations disapprove of the use of most illicit drugs intended to mean?
Generally, the term illicit implies that something is disapproved off
Therefore, it seems to lack real meaning without identifiction of the source of the disapproval
If the source is Christianity, then does the sentence say anymore than that Christianity disapproves of some drug use, without really specifying what drugs or what manner of use?
Laurel Bush (
talk)
15:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
It seems that the majority of the beginning of the section on Judaism has no citation.
Daniel Merkur's books cover drugs in judaism, such as 'The Psychedelic Sacrament'-- 92.236.35.88 ( talk) 09:38, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
I added a section to cover Wasson's theories about Buddhism from his book 'Persephone's Quest'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.35.88 ( talk) 23:22, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
I have edited the text to remove the unsourced suggestions that Buddhists have been historically anti drugs, because i can find no source to back up that claim. With the exception of alcoholic beverages, there does not appear to be any prohibition or advice against the use of other psychoactive drugs in historical Buddhism, so the anti-drugs attitude of modern buddhists appears to be solely a modern (since 1970) phenomenon. Please provide sources to show if this is incorrect.-- 92.236.35.88 ( talk) 23:28, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
The Pāli Canon. Hafspajen ( talk) 19:32, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
I've removed this speculation about "some psychoactive drug mixture, possibly including psilocybe or amanita muscaria mushrooms" inducing the Buddha's "enlightenment experience". The term "enlightenment experience" alone yet shows the editor's lack of understanding (see Robert Sharf, "the rhetorics of meditative experience"); to equate bodhi with psychedelic experiences is WP:FRINGE; it's addition here is WP:UNDUE and WP:POV. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:52, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
Maybe you could be so kind to give a page-number, and the relevant quote from Wasson? Why does Wasson refer to this meal as "the last meal of the Buddha"? I wouldn't be surprised if you're mixing up his meal before his enlightenment, and his last meal before his para-nibbana. See also this blog. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 13:06, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
This article was the subject of an educational assignment in Spring 2015. Further details were available on the "Education Program:Duquesne University/UCOR 143 Global and Cultural Perspectives (Spring 2015)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki. |
This edit was made because of a school project. All information used in order to create this edit was found from the article "The LSD Experience and Zen."
I've removed this addition. The source is outdated (1971); the addition does not mention the context of 60 years of debate on the usage of LSD, the supposed similarities with (Zen) meditation, and the dangers and disadvantages of LSD-usage. What's more, that issue of the Eastern Buddhist contained several articles on "Drugs and Buddhism" : A Symposium See. So, what's the context of this specific article? Rick Fields' How the Swans Came to the Lake: A Narrative History of Buddhism in America contains a literature overview, with a subesction on "Buddhism and the Counterculture." It may provide relevant literature. And see also Ego death#Criticism. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:04, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Religion and drugs/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs at least reference, expansion of some sections, and inline citations. Also may not yet reflect a global view. Badbilltucker 17:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 17:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 04:08, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Religion and drugs. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:19, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
The final paragraph of the " Christianity section goes as thus (footnotes removed):
"The Judeo-Christian Cannabis church Temple 420 believes; People who love God and know cannabis is good medicine. Christian cannabis asks cannabis could be used in beneficial ways to support their lives? The Renown Plantation teaches that is created "good" and known to be in the Holy Anointing oil."
A Google search of " Judeo-Christian Cannabis church Temple 420" turned up only the article of this talk page as a result, so I'm guessing that the paragraph is probably vandalism. Could anyone please tell me if I should delete this?-- Thylacine24 ( talk) 03:29, 31 July 2020 (UTC)