![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This page is a discussion archive from Talk:Rehoboth_Carpenter_family.
Hopefully self-evident. This article appears incomplete, non-notable (for the moment), and lacking in sources. Ian Cairns 18:21, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
The genealogical claims of the entry are amply supported by the Amos B. Carpenter genealogical reference cited by the author. It is a respected and largely reliable work, on microfiche now at the Library of Congress. It can't be accessed on line. A good presidential genealogical database is online, maintained by the University of Hull. It too supports the author's claims and could be cited in the article. The "two American presidents" in question are Bush 41 and Bush 43, who trace their descent to the Rehoboth branch Carpenters through Flora Sheldon, who was the mother of Prescott Sheldon Bush and the descendant of Benjamin and Renew (Weeks) Carpenter. Project Mercury astronaut Scott Carpenter is a direct lineal descendant, from this same couple, but through a different line, through Carpenter sons. This claim too is documented in the Amos B. Carpenter reference work. ( KC Stoever 19:48, 29 December 2006 (UTC)).
John R. Carpenter Jrcrin001 ( talk) 03:01, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
In general, there are many suppositions and unsupported facts in this article.
It needs better editing and cleanup. For example, the Culham connection has no documentation and does not mention the will errors found.
Amos B. Carpenter's 900 page 1898 work on the Rehoboth Carpenter Family was remarkable for its day. However, there has been many corrections to the English lineage and families therein over the years.
The best work on the immigrant Rehoboth Carpenter Family is by Gene Zubrinsky. He and others have confirmed will transcription errors nullifying the English connection previously made by Carpenter Researchers. He and others have culled the wheat from the shafts of misconceptions in many areas.
A work in progress on the two William Carpenter immigrants (Rehoboth, MA and Providence, RI) is at: http://members.cox.net/jrcrin001/carplink.htm
John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Jrcrin001 ( talk) 17:14, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
This last re-write and clean up is much better! Good Job Gene!
John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Jrcrin001 ( talk) 16:45, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Iwanafish
This is a warning for your disruptive edits.
Caution: do not violate Wikipedia's
neutral point of view policy by inserting commentary or your personal analysis into an article, as you have done with
Rehoboth Carpenter family.
Please use the article discussion page to post your arguements for or against. Repeatedly removing another's edit without discussion or reason is disruptive. Please communicate & discuss, please do not try to create an edit war. Several people have tried (by sending email to your various emails for some time) to communicate with you to help establish a neutral point of view regarding this and other articles.
I am asking a few Wiki editors to monitor Rehoboth Carpenter family.
John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Jrcrin001 ( talk) 23:06, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
-- John R. Carpenter Jrcrin001 ( talk) 16:25, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
okay it looks like I've stepped into a pile of something unpleasant going on in this article's edit history. Please discuss reasons for reverting to an older, unformatted version of this article and try to reach consensus, thanks riffic ( talk) 07:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
This page's section headed "April 2009" is addressed to a particular contributor (Iwanafish), whose quality of work and editing behavior I will, out of civility, not characterize here. But since this article is now the object of an editing war (instigated by Iwanafish), readers should know that the current version's reliability cannot be guaranteed. To ensure that the article they are viewing is the most accurate and complete of those submitted, readers should return to the article, click on the "history" tab, and ascertain that the version identified at the top of the list is either my contribution or another editor's reversion to my most recent submission, dated 5 April 2009 (5,439 bytes); if it is neither, click on my version of that date.
Readers will note that no version of this article contains fact-specific source citations. In the case of my edits, this is because I have good reason to expect that the necessary investment of time and trouble would be nullified (as in the case of my previous edits of this article) by the wholesale deletion of my work. The sources listed in the References and External Links sections, however, include journal articles of mine and self-published (online) sketches, all of which contain primary-source citations covering many of this article's facts. Wikipedia's verifiability policy permits the citation of self-published material "when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications." I have contributed about a dozen and a half articles to leading genealogical and local-history publications. Of that number are three Carpenter-related journal articles, one published in The American Genealogist (1995), the other two in The New England Historical and Genealogical Register (2005). The cited sketches, moreover, were prepared at the request of John R. Carpenter, in whose Carpenters' Encyclopedia of Carpenters, 2009 (data DVD) they also appear. GeneZub ( talk) 04:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
I found this article since it was in Category:Uncategorized pages and made an edit, but it looks like I stepped into an edit-war which was going on. I've looked at the history of this article and this version from April 5 looks much better than the current version. What content exactly are people having disagreements about? -- Pixelface ( talk) 08:51, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Jrcrin001 ( talk) 03:12, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Members of the Rehoboth Carpenter family were among the first settlers of Rehoboth, Massachusetts. William1 Carpenter (b. c1575), his namesake son, William2 Carpenter (c1605-1658/9), and the latter man's wife and children (then numbering four) arrived on the Bevis from Southampton, England, in 1638.
They had previously lived in Shalbourne, an English parish near Hungerford that straddled the boundary between Wiltshire and Berkshire. Nothing is known of William1 in Massachusetts, and he is presumed to have died by the time the family settled at Rehoboth, in 1644. William2 Carpenter first appears in New England records in 1640, as a resident of Weymouth, Massachusetts. He was among the founders (at Weymouth in late 1643) of the Plymouth Colony town of Rehoboth (settled 1644). His son, William3 Carpenter (1631-1702/3), was for many years Rehoboth town clerk, by virtue of which his name—not that of his father—appears with some frequency in Plymouth Colony records, in association with a number of local vital-records lists that he certified and forwarded to colony authorities.
The Rehoboth Carpenters' English origins were obscure until the discovery of Bishops' Transcripts of Shalbourne parish records containing marriage, baptismal, and burial records pertaining to them. Among these records is that of William1's marriage in 1625 to Abigail Briant of Shalbourne. A search of Westcourt Manor tenants' records reveals William1 Carpenter as a copyholder at Westcourt Manor in Shalbourne from 1608 to late 1637.
There is no record to confirm it, but it is said that certain Rehoboth Carpenters were among the founders of the Rehoboth (Newman) Congregational Church, located in present-day Rumford, Rhode Island (site of the original Rehoboth settlement). This much we know: William2 Carpenter's admission as a Massachusetts Bay Colony freeman from Weymouth in 1640 required church membership. The minister at Weymouth was Rev. Samuel Newman, most of whose congregation accompanied him to Rehoboth, where he was also the minister. William2 Carpenter was one of Rehoboth's fifty-eight original proprietors and is buried in Old Rehoboth (Newman Church) Cemetery. (While records of the time provide no direct evidence as to the religious affiliation of William2 of Rehoboth, he was certainly not a Baptist. In this regard, he is sometimes confused with William1 Carpenter of Providence. But even the latter man’s Baptist orthodoxy was impugned by Roger Williams in a 1655 letter to the Massachusetts Bay General Court.)
Among the many Rehoboth Carpenter descendants who fought in the American Revolution was Captain
Benajah Carpenter, a founding member of the
United States Army Field Artillery Corps under
Henry Knox. Another distinguished product of this family was
George Rice Carpenter (1863–1909), born in
Labrador and a graduate of
Harvard in 1886. He taught at Harvard from 1888 to 1890 and at
Massachusetts Institute of Technology from 1890 to 1893. In 1893 he became a professor of English rhetoric at
Columbia University and authored a long list of textbooks on literature and rhetoric and biographies of
Whittier,
Whitman, and
Longfellow. A classics library at Columbia is named in his honor. Also of note was the painter
Francis Bicknell Carpenter (1830-1900), whose work hangs in the
United States Capitol. Carpenter also resided with
President Lincoln in the
White House and published a memoir of his stay.
Project Mercury astronaut
M. Scott Carpenter (b. May 1,1925) descends from Joseph Carpenter, the fourth son of William2.
[[Category:American families]] [[Category:Rehoboth Carpenters]]
End 5 April 2009 version.
Jrcrin001 (
talk)
03:05, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
The Rehoboth Carpenter family was a historic American family from 1638 that helped found the town of Rehoboth, Massachusetts. Savage who? in his A Genealogical Dictionary of The First Settlers of New England Before 1692 traced the recorded origins of this family to a father (b. 1576) and son William Carpenter (1605-1659) who sailed for Weymouth, Massachusetts, on the Bevis from Southampton, England, in 1638. citation needed
Nothing more is known of the father in Massachusetts and he is presumed to have perished in passage or shortly thereafter. The son William Carpenter Jr. appears in copious Plymouth Colony records and in the writings of John Winthrop. He was among the founders of the new Rehoboth Colony in 1645. Plymouth Colony records show him as a sympathizer of the newly emerging Baptist movement in America. The portrait of him in Winthrop's writings, as well as the Plymouth Colony records, present a man of intense religious conviction as well as compassion. His many descendants in America have played their part in every aspect of American history, including two U.S. presidents and one Project Mercury astronaut, M. Scott Carpenter (b. May 1,1925), who descends from Joseph Carpenter, the third or fourth son of William Jr.
The Rehoboth Carpenter family provided many soldiers to the American Revolution. Notable was a Captain Benajah Carpenter a founding member of the United States Army Field Artillery Corps under Henry Knox. Among other Carpenters in the subsequent 1800s was George Rice Carpenter (1863–1909), born in Labrador and a graduate of Harvard in 1886. Carpenter taught at Harvard from 1888 to 1890 and at Massachusetts Institute of Technology from 1890 to 1893. In 1893 he became a professor of rhetoric at Columbia University. Carpenter authored a long list of literature textbooks, rhetoric and biographies of Whittier, Whitman and Longfellow. A classics library at Columbia is named in his honor.
Also of note was the painter Francis Bicknell Carpenter (1830-1900) whose work hangs in the United States Capitol. citation needed Carpenter also resided with President Lincoln in the White House and published a one volume memoir of his stay. The English origins were obscure for this family until the discovery of parish records in Bishops' transcripts. The two William Carpenters had resided in the Berkshire village of Shalbourne, just outside Hungerford. The appearance of William Carpenter Sr. in Shalbourne coincided with a childless Thomas Carpenter and wife Alice at adjacent Hungerford. Thomas Carpenter was a dyer and leading merchant of the town, who with others, gained the incorporation of the town from the crown. Thomas died in 1625 and an Alice was buried in Shalbourne just prior to the Carpenter emigration to Massachusetts.
William Carpenter Jr. had married an Abigail Briant at Shalbourne in 1625. A search of Westcourt Manor records reveals William Carpenter Sr. as a resident of Shalbourne and Westcourt Manor from 1608. Manor records from Culham, Oxfordshire contain various references to a father-son William Carpenter whose activities conform to Shalbourne records. The Carpenters had inhabited Culham as a prosperous yeoman family from 1533 with a Thomas Carpenter of Culham and tenant of the Abbey of Abingdon. Carpenter tenants of the abbey extend back to the 1400s elsewhere in Berkshire.
William Carpenter Sr. served as assessor of fines in the Culham Manor Court. Many pages of Latin records bearing his name are now in the Bodleian Library at Oxford. William Carpenter Sr. educated his eldest son Robert at Oxford for the church. Many of what were perhaps Robert's books made there way to Massachusetts in the possession of Carpenter's son William Carpenter Jr. (b. 1605). In nearby Reading disambiguation needed a Thomas Carpenter was mayor and has a place in the economic history of England clarification needed.
[[Category:American families]]
End 19 April 2009 version. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 03:12, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
The Rehoboth Carpenter family is an historic American family since 1638 that helped settle the town of Rehoboth, Massachusetts in 1644. [1]
The first immigrant and founder of this line was William Carpenter (generation 1) (b. c1575 in England), his namesake son, William Carpenter (Gen. 2) (c 1605 in England -1658/9 Rehoboth, Bristol, MA), and the son's wife and children (then numbering four) arrived on the Bevis from Southampton, England, in 1638. Nothing more is known of the father, William, in Massachusetts and he is presumed to have perished either in passage, shortly after arriving in the new world or, less likely he returned to England. William Carpenter (Gen. 2) is buried in the Newman Congregational Church Cemetery with a simple field stone marked with a "W. C.".
William Carpenter, (Gen. 2) first appears in New England records in 1640, as a resident of Weymouth, Massachusetts. He was among the founders (at Weymouth in late 1643) of the Plymouth Colony town of Rehoboth (settled 1644). His son, William (Gen. 3) Carpenter (b. 1631 in England - 1702/3 Rehoboth, Bristol, MA), was for many years Rehoboth town clerk, by virtue of which his name—not that of his father—appears with some frequency in Plymouth Colony records, in association with a number of local vital-records lists that he certified and forwarded to colony authorities. The name William Carpenter appears in copious Plymouth Colony records and in the writings of John Winthrop and in other public records over the generations. [2]
These Carpenters previously lived in Shalbourne, an English parish near Hungerford that straddled the boundary between Wiltshire and Berkshire. The Rehoboth Carpenters' English origins were obscure until the discovery of Bishops' Transcripts of Shalbourne parish records containing marriage, baptismal, and burial records pertaining to them. Among these records is that of William (Senior) Carpenter's marriage in 1625 to Abigail Briant of Shalbourne. A search of Westcourt Manor tenants' records reveals William Carpenter (Gen. 1) as a copyholder at Westcourt Manor in Shalbourne from 1608 to late 1637.
William Carpenter (Gen. 1) born about 1575 in England. He died after 2 May 1638 (Bevis passenger list) and certainly before 1644 when his son, William settled in Rehoboth. He was of Newtown, Shalbourne Parish, Wiltshire, England, by 1608, when he became a copyholder (semipermanent leaseholder) at Westcourt Manor (Westcourt Recs 7). Shalbourne, completely in Wiltshire since 1895, previously it straddled the line separating Wiltshire and Berkshire, with Westcourt comprising the Wiltshire part of the parish (Shalbourne Map); the Hampshire border was/is about four miles away. It is likely that William was born in one of these three counties. William's renewal of his Westcourt tenancy on 22 June 1614 gives his age as 40 (Westcourt Recs 7). The passenger list of the Bevis, the ship on which he left England, is dated 2 May 1638 and states William's age as 62 leading to an estimate of about 1575 for his birth. [3]
His son William Carpenter (Gen. 2) was born about 1605 in or of Wiltshire, England. He died 7 Feburary 1658/1659 in Rehoboth, Bristol, MA. He married Abigail Briant, daughter of John & Alice, on 28 April 1625 in Shalbourne Parish, Berkshire, now in, Wiltshire, England. [4] Their children:
Many Rehoboth Carpenter family descendants in America have played their part in every aspect of American history, including the ancestry of at least two U.S. presidents - George H. W. Bush, 41st President of the United States (1989–1993) and father of George Walker Bush George W. Bush, 43rd President.
There is no record to confirm it, but it is said that certain Rehoboth Carpenters were among the founders of the Rehoboth (Newman) Congregational Church, located in present-day Rumford, Rhode Island (site of the original Rehoboth settlement). This much we know: William (Gen. 2) Carpenter's admission as a Massachusetts Bay Colony freeman from Weymouth in 1640 required church membership. The minister at Weymouth was Rev. Samuel Newman, most of whose congregation accompanied him to Rehoboth, where he was also the minister. William (Gen. 2) Carpenter was one of Rehoboth's fifty-eight original proprietors and is buried in Old Rehoboth (Newman Church) Cemetery. (While records of the time provide no direct evidence as to the religious affiliation of William (Gen. 2) Carpenter of Rehoboth, he was certainly not a Baptist, even though other Carpenters in New England were. In this regard, he is sometimes confused with William_Carpenter_(Rhode_Island) of Providence and others. [5]
William Carpenter (Rhode Island) - The first Carpenter to make permanent settlement in America.
Eugene Cole Zubrinsky.
"LINKS TO SKETCHES AND ARTICLES REPRESENTING THE MOST CURRENT AND RELIABLE SCHOLARSHIP CONCERNING EARLY GENERATIONS OF THE CARPENTER FAMILIES OF REHOBOTH, MASSACHUSETTS, AND PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND, AND THEIR ANCESTORS". Carpenters' Encyclopedia of Carpenters 2008 Update. Retrieved 4/7/2009. {{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
(
help) - A very detailed and comprehensive sources list is provided in those sketches.
Carpenter (surname) - People associated with the Carpenter surname.
[[Category:American families]] [[Category:Rehoboth Carpenters]] {{DEFAULTSORT:Carpenter, William}} [[Category:1605 births]] [[Category:1575 births]] [[Category:1685 deaths]] [[Category:1659 deaths]] [[Category:English Americans]] [[Category:Massachusetts colonial people]]
GIVE ME INPUT. IS THIS MORE ACCEPTABLE TO ALL? Jrcrin001 ( talk) 22:03, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
- Regarding Compromise Article dated 20 April 2009 - Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~ Please do not remove this survey until complete.
Other than user Iwanafish who refuses to discuss, communicate or vote, it appears the compromise version is acceptable. No doubt it will need to be tweaked here and there by better wiki editors. I have posted the compromise article on 12 May 2009. John R. Carpenter Jrcrin001 ( talk) 07:07, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Iwannafish uses 160.244.140.202 as an alias to avoid detection by Wikipedia editor sanctions. He is watching the article because he recently removed the Bevis passenger list picture that shows William Carpenter as "clutter." No comment or discussion given. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 06:32, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
The current (25 April 2009) version of this article is laced with errors and speculative claims for which editor Iwanafish (sock-puppet username 160.244.140.202) is primarily responsible. While refusing to correct his mistakes and remove his wild assertions, he has repeatedly and without discussion deleted the revisions of others. Iwanafish’s poor scholarship and incivility have necessitated the following critique. It is hoped that uninitiated readers (including editors) will gain sufficient factual knowledge from the corrective material below to reject the version in question on the basis of its erroneous and misleading content.
“Savage in his ‘A Genealogical Dictionary of The First Settlers of New England Before 1692’ traced the recorded origins of this family to a father (b. 1576) and son William Carpenter (1605-1659) who sailed for Weymouth, Massachusetts, on the Bevis from Southampton, England, in 1638.”
“The son William Carpenter Jr. appears in copious Plymouth Colony records and in the writings of John Winthrop.”
“He was among the founders of the new Rehoboth Colony in 1645.”
“Plymouth Colony records show him as a sympathizer of the newly emerging Baptist movement in America.”
“The portrait of him in Winthrop's writings, as well as the Plymouth Colony records, present a man of intense religious conviction as well as compassion.”
“The English origins were obscure for this family until the discovery of parish records in Bishops' transcripts.”
“The two William Carpenters had resided in the Berkshire village of Shalbourne, just outside Hungerford.”
“The appearance of William Carpenter Sr. in Shalbourne coincided with a childless Thomas Carpenter and wife Alice at adjacent Hungerford. Thomas Carpenter was a dyer and leading merchant of the town, who with others, gained the incorporation of the town from the crown. Thomas died in 1625 and an Alice was buried in Shalbourne just prior to the Carpenter emigration to Massachusetts.”
“A search of Westcourt Manor records reveals William Carpenter Sr. as a resident of Shalbourne and Westcourt Manor from 1608. Manor records from Culham, Oxfordshire contain various references to a father-son William Carpenter whose activities conform to Shalbourne records.”
“The Carpenters had inhabited Culham as a prosperous yeoman family from 1533 with a Thomas Carpenter of Culham and tenant of the Abbey of Abingdon. Carpenter tenants of the abbey extend back to the 1400s elsewhere in Berkshire.
“William Carpenter Sr. served as assessor of fines in the Culham Manor Court. Many pages of Latin records bearing his name are now in the Bodleian Library at Oxford.”
“William Carpenter Sr. educated his eldest son Robert at Oxford for the church.”
“Many of what were perhaps Robert's books made their way to Massachusetts in the possession of Carpenter's son William Carpenter Jr. (b. 1605).”
“In nearby Reading a Thomas Carpenter was mayor and has a place in the economic history of England.”
In the References section (there isn’t a single footnote), Iwanafish cites two sources: Amos B. Carpenter, A Genealogical History of the Rehoboth Branch of the Carpenter Family in America (Amherst, Mass., 1898), and Richard LeBaron Bowen, Early Rehoboth, Documented Historical Studies of Families and Events in This Plymouth Colony Township, 4 vols. (Rehoboth, Mass., 1945–1950). The former is highly unreliable, and little or nothing from the latter (certainly nothing incorporated accurately) appears in this article. Iwanafish (alias 160.244.140.202) is aware of authoritative journal articles and sketches pertaining to the early Carpenters of Rehoboth, yet he stubbornly persists in trading intellectual honesty for ego aggrandizement.
Although another editor's "compromise" version may soon replace that critiqued above, it is likely that Iwanafish will reverse it in favor of the latter. Readers should not be fooled by date changes or minor, "drive by" revisions of style, format, organization, etc. (the compromise version, by contrast, omits most of the offending passages). If the article continues to include statements such as those quoted above, readers will presumably know to give them no credence. GeneZub ( talk) 23:29, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Iwanafish aka
160.244.140.202
This is a warning for your continuing disruptive edits and deliberate vandalisim.
Caution: do not violate Wikipedia's
neutral point of view policy by inserting commentary or your personal analysis into an article, as you have done repeatedly with
Rehoboth Carpenter family,
Culham and now
John Carpenter (bishop).
You refuse to discuss, talk or converse. Your actions indicate you are deliberately causing harm to these articles for no apparent reason. It is childish, unprofessional and wrong. You need to stop. Maybe we need to contact your employer in Japan ...
John R. Carpenter Jrcrin001 ( talk) 23:05, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Based on the survey above with the assistance on many, the compromise artice has been posted. See notes above. The tags that were posted were removed pending review. The tags were: Disputed|date=May 2009}} Original research|date=May 2009}} NPOV|date=May 2009}} Refimprove|date=April 2009}} No footnotes|date=April 2009}} It appears that all of these issues were resolved with the compromise version. John R. Carpenter Jrcrin001 ( talk) 07:10, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I just cleaned up some non-standard formatting and layout as follows:
– ukexpat ( talk) 14:18, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Tag removed - it was hiding other discussion. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 08:42, 16 May 2009 (UTC) Jrcrin001 ( talk) 03:03, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Article could use help if not complete rewrite (actually, talk page could use help to, a first for me). I scratched the surface if that. Thanks, -- Tom (talk) 00:41, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Time to archive the above? Jrcrin001 ( talk) 19:20, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This page is a discussion archive from Talk:Rehoboth_Carpenter_family.
Hopefully self-evident. This article appears incomplete, non-notable (for the moment), and lacking in sources. Ian Cairns 18:21, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
The genealogical claims of the entry are amply supported by the Amos B. Carpenter genealogical reference cited by the author. It is a respected and largely reliable work, on microfiche now at the Library of Congress. It can't be accessed on line. A good presidential genealogical database is online, maintained by the University of Hull. It too supports the author's claims and could be cited in the article. The "two American presidents" in question are Bush 41 and Bush 43, who trace their descent to the Rehoboth branch Carpenters through Flora Sheldon, who was the mother of Prescott Sheldon Bush and the descendant of Benjamin and Renew (Weeks) Carpenter. Project Mercury astronaut Scott Carpenter is a direct lineal descendant, from this same couple, but through a different line, through Carpenter sons. This claim too is documented in the Amos B. Carpenter reference work. ( KC Stoever 19:48, 29 December 2006 (UTC)).
John R. Carpenter Jrcrin001 ( talk) 03:01, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
In general, there are many suppositions and unsupported facts in this article.
It needs better editing and cleanup. For example, the Culham connection has no documentation and does not mention the will errors found.
Amos B. Carpenter's 900 page 1898 work on the Rehoboth Carpenter Family was remarkable for its day. However, there has been many corrections to the English lineage and families therein over the years.
The best work on the immigrant Rehoboth Carpenter Family is by Gene Zubrinsky. He and others have confirmed will transcription errors nullifying the English connection previously made by Carpenter Researchers. He and others have culled the wheat from the shafts of misconceptions in many areas.
A work in progress on the two William Carpenter immigrants (Rehoboth, MA and Providence, RI) is at: http://members.cox.net/jrcrin001/carplink.htm
John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Jrcrin001 ( talk) 17:14, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
This last re-write and clean up is much better! Good Job Gene!
John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Jrcrin001 ( talk) 16:45, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Iwanafish
This is a warning for your disruptive edits.
Caution: do not violate Wikipedia's
neutral point of view policy by inserting commentary or your personal analysis into an article, as you have done with
Rehoboth Carpenter family.
Please use the article discussion page to post your arguements for or against. Repeatedly removing another's edit without discussion or reason is disruptive. Please communicate & discuss, please do not try to create an edit war. Several people have tried (by sending email to your various emails for some time) to communicate with you to help establish a neutral point of view regarding this and other articles.
I am asking a few Wiki editors to monitor Rehoboth Carpenter family.
John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA Jrcrin001 ( talk) 23:06, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
-- John R. Carpenter Jrcrin001 ( talk) 16:25, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
okay it looks like I've stepped into a pile of something unpleasant going on in this article's edit history. Please discuss reasons for reverting to an older, unformatted version of this article and try to reach consensus, thanks riffic ( talk) 07:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
This page's section headed "April 2009" is addressed to a particular contributor (Iwanafish), whose quality of work and editing behavior I will, out of civility, not characterize here. But since this article is now the object of an editing war (instigated by Iwanafish), readers should know that the current version's reliability cannot be guaranteed. To ensure that the article they are viewing is the most accurate and complete of those submitted, readers should return to the article, click on the "history" tab, and ascertain that the version identified at the top of the list is either my contribution or another editor's reversion to my most recent submission, dated 5 April 2009 (5,439 bytes); if it is neither, click on my version of that date.
Readers will note that no version of this article contains fact-specific source citations. In the case of my edits, this is because I have good reason to expect that the necessary investment of time and trouble would be nullified (as in the case of my previous edits of this article) by the wholesale deletion of my work. The sources listed in the References and External Links sections, however, include journal articles of mine and self-published (online) sketches, all of which contain primary-source citations covering many of this article's facts. Wikipedia's verifiability policy permits the citation of self-published material "when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications." I have contributed about a dozen and a half articles to leading genealogical and local-history publications. Of that number are three Carpenter-related journal articles, one published in The American Genealogist (1995), the other two in The New England Historical and Genealogical Register (2005). The cited sketches, moreover, were prepared at the request of John R. Carpenter, in whose Carpenters' Encyclopedia of Carpenters, 2009 (data DVD) they also appear. GeneZub ( talk) 04:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
I found this article since it was in Category:Uncategorized pages and made an edit, but it looks like I stepped into an edit-war which was going on. I've looked at the history of this article and this version from April 5 looks much better than the current version. What content exactly are people having disagreements about? -- Pixelface ( talk) 08:51, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Jrcrin001 ( talk) 03:12, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Members of the Rehoboth Carpenter family were among the first settlers of Rehoboth, Massachusetts. William1 Carpenter (b. c1575), his namesake son, William2 Carpenter (c1605-1658/9), and the latter man's wife and children (then numbering four) arrived on the Bevis from Southampton, England, in 1638.
They had previously lived in Shalbourne, an English parish near Hungerford that straddled the boundary between Wiltshire and Berkshire. Nothing is known of William1 in Massachusetts, and he is presumed to have died by the time the family settled at Rehoboth, in 1644. William2 Carpenter first appears in New England records in 1640, as a resident of Weymouth, Massachusetts. He was among the founders (at Weymouth in late 1643) of the Plymouth Colony town of Rehoboth (settled 1644). His son, William3 Carpenter (1631-1702/3), was for many years Rehoboth town clerk, by virtue of which his name—not that of his father—appears with some frequency in Plymouth Colony records, in association with a number of local vital-records lists that he certified and forwarded to colony authorities.
The Rehoboth Carpenters' English origins were obscure until the discovery of Bishops' Transcripts of Shalbourne parish records containing marriage, baptismal, and burial records pertaining to them. Among these records is that of William1's marriage in 1625 to Abigail Briant of Shalbourne. A search of Westcourt Manor tenants' records reveals William1 Carpenter as a copyholder at Westcourt Manor in Shalbourne from 1608 to late 1637.
There is no record to confirm it, but it is said that certain Rehoboth Carpenters were among the founders of the Rehoboth (Newman) Congregational Church, located in present-day Rumford, Rhode Island (site of the original Rehoboth settlement). This much we know: William2 Carpenter's admission as a Massachusetts Bay Colony freeman from Weymouth in 1640 required church membership. The minister at Weymouth was Rev. Samuel Newman, most of whose congregation accompanied him to Rehoboth, where he was also the minister. William2 Carpenter was one of Rehoboth's fifty-eight original proprietors and is buried in Old Rehoboth (Newman Church) Cemetery. (While records of the time provide no direct evidence as to the religious affiliation of William2 of Rehoboth, he was certainly not a Baptist. In this regard, he is sometimes confused with William1 Carpenter of Providence. But even the latter man’s Baptist orthodoxy was impugned by Roger Williams in a 1655 letter to the Massachusetts Bay General Court.)
Among the many Rehoboth Carpenter descendants who fought in the American Revolution was Captain
Benajah Carpenter, a founding member of the
United States Army Field Artillery Corps under
Henry Knox. Another distinguished product of this family was
George Rice Carpenter (1863–1909), born in
Labrador and a graduate of
Harvard in 1886. He taught at Harvard from 1888 to 1890 and at
Massachusetts Institute of Technology from 1890 to 1893. In 1893 he became a professor of English rhetoric at
Columbia University and authored a long list of textbooks on literature and rhetoric and biographies of
Whittier,
Whitman, and
Longfellow. A classics library at Columbia is named in his honor. Also of note was the painter
Francis Bicknell Carpenter (1830-1900), whose work hangs in the
United States Capitol. Carpenter also resided with
President Lincoln in the
White House and published a memoir of his stay.
Project Mercury astronaut
M. Scott Carpenter (b. May 1,1925) descends from Joseph Carpenter, the fourth son of William2.
[[Category:American families]] [[Category:Rehoboth Carpenters]]
End 5 April 2009 version.
Jrcrin001 (
talk)
03:05, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
The Rehoboth Carpenter family was a historic American family from 1638 that helped found the town of Rehoboth, Massachusetts. Savage who? in his A Genealogical Dictionary of The First Settlers of New England Before 1692 traced the recorded origins of this family to a father (b. 1576) and son William Carpenter (1605-1659) who sailed for Weymouth, Massachusetts, on the Bevis from Southampton, England, in 1638. citation needed
Nothing more is known of the father in Massachusetts and he is presumed to have perished in passage or shortly thereafter. The son William Carpenter Jr. appears in copious Plymouth Colony records and in the writings of John Winthrop. He was among the founders of the new Rehoboth Colony in 1645. Plymouth Colony records show him as a sympathizer of the newly emerging Baptist movement in America. The portrait of him in Winthrop's writings, as well as the Plymouth Colony records, present a man of intense religious conviction as well as compassion. His many descendants in America have played their part in every aspect of American history, including two U.S. presidents and one Project Mercury astronaut, M. Scott Carpenter (b. May 1,1925), who descends from Joseph Carpenter, the third or fourth son of William Jr.
The Rehoboth Carpenter family provided many soldiers to the American Revolution. Notable was a Captain Benajah Carpenter a founding member of the United States Army Field Artillery Corps under Henry Knox. Among other Carpenters in the subsequent 1800s was George Rice Carpenter (1863–1909), born in Labrador and a graduate of Harvard in 1886. Carpenter taught at Harvard from 1888 to 1890 and at Massachusetts Institute of Technology from 1890 to 1893. In 1893 he became a professor of rhetoric at Columbia University. Carpenter authored a long list of literature textbooks, rhetoric and biographies of Whittier, Whitman and Longfellow. A classics library at Columbia is named in his honor.
Also of note was the painter Francis Bicknell Carpenter (1830-1900) whose work hangs in the United States Capitol. citation needed Carpenter also resided with President Lincoln in the White House and published a one volume memoir of his stay. The English origins were obscure for this family until the discovery of parish records in Bishops' transcripts. The two William Carpenters had resided in the Berkshire village of Shalbourne, just outside Hungerford. The appearance of William Carpenter Sr. in Shalbourne coincided with a childless Thomas Carpenter and wife Alice at adjacent Hungerford. Thomas Carpenter was a dyer and leading merchant of the town, who with others, gained the incorporation of the town from the crown. Thomas died in 1625 and an Alice was buried in Shalbourne just prior to the Carpenter emigration to Massachusetts.
William Carpenter Jr. had married an Abigail Briant at Shalbourne in 1625. A search of Westcourt Manor records reveals William Carpenter Sr. as a resident of Shalbourne and Westcourt Manor from 1608. Manor records from Culham, Oxfordshire contain various references to a father-son William Carpenter whose activities conform to Shalbourne records. The Carpenters had inhabited Culham as a prosperous yeoman family from 1533 with a Thomas Carpenter of Culham and tenant of the Abbey of Abingdon. Carpenter tenants of the abbey extend back to the 1400s elsewhere in Berkshire.
William Carpenter Sr. served as assessor of fines in the Culham Manor Court. Many pages of Latin records bearing his name are now in the Bodleian Library at Oxford. William Carpenter Sr. educated his eldest son Robert at Oxford for the church. Many of what were perhaps Robert's books made there way to Massachusetts in the possession of Carpenter's son William Carpenter Jr. (b. 1605). In nearby Reading disambiguation needed a Thomas Carpenter was mayor and has a place in the economic history of England clarification needed.
[[Category:American families]]
End 19 April 2009 version. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 03:12, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
The Rehoboth Carpenter family is an historic American family since 1638 that helped settle the town of Rehoboth, Massachusetts in 1644. [1]
The first immigrant and founder of this line was William Carpenter (generation 1) (b. c1575 in England), his namesake son, William Carpenter (Gen. 2) (c 1605 in England -1658/9 Rehoboth, Bristol, MA), and the son's wife and children (then numbering four) arrived on the Bevis from Southampton, England, in 1638. Nothing more is known of the father, William, in Massachusetts and he is presumed to have perished either in passage, shortly after arriving in the new world or, less likely he returned to England. William Carpenter (Gen. 2) is buried in the Newman Congregational Church Cemetery with a simple field stone marked with a "W. C.".
William Carpenter, (Gen. 2) first appears in New England records in 1640, as a resident of Weymouth, Massachusetts. He was among the founders (at Weymouth in late 1643) of the Plymouth Colony town of Rehoboth (settled 1644). His son, William (Gen. 3) Carpenter (b. 1631 in England - 1702/3 Rehoboth, Bristol, MA), was for many years Rehoboth town clerk, by virtue of which his name—not that of his father—appears with some frequency in Plymouth Colony records, in association with a number of local vital-records lists that he certified and forwarded to colony authorities. The name William Carpenter appears in copious Plymouth Colony records and in the writings of John Winthrop and in other public records over the generations. [2]
These Carpenters previously lived in Shalbourne, an English parish near Hungerford that straddled the boundary between Wiltshire and Berkshire. The Rehoboth Carpenters' English origins were obscure until the discovery of Bishops' Transcripts of Shalbourne parish records containing marriage, baptismal, and burial records pertaining to them. Among these records is that of William (Senior) Carpenter's marriage in 1625 to Abigail Briant of Shalbourne. A search of Westcourt Manor tenants' records reveals William Carpenter (Gen. 1) as a copyholder at Westcourt Manor in Shalbourne from 1608 to late 1637.
William Carpenter (Gen. 1) born about 1575 in England. He died after 2 May 1638 (Bevis passenger list) and certainly before 1644 when his son, William settled in Rehoboth. He was of Newtown, Shalbourne Parish, Wiltshire, England, by 1608, when he became a copyholder (semipermanent leaseholder) at Westcourt Manor (Westcourt Recs 7). Shalbourne, completely in Wiltshire since 1895, previously it straddled the line separating Wiltshire and Berkshire, with Westcourt comprising the Wiltshire part of the parish (Shalbourne Map); the Hampshire border was/is about four miles away. It is likely that William was born in one of these three counties. William's renewal of his Westcourt tenancy on 22 June 1614 gives his age as 40 (Westcourt Recs 7). The passenger list of the Bevis, the ship on which he left England, is dated 2 May 1638 and states William's age as 62 leading to an estimate of about 1575 for his birth. [3]
His son William Carpenter (Gen. 2) was born about 1605 in or of Wiltshire, England. He died 7 Feburary 1658/1659 in Rehoboth, Bristol, MA. He married Abigail Briant, daughter of John & Alice, on 28 April 1625 in Shalbourne Parish, Berkshire, now in, Wiltshire, England. [4] Their children:
Many Rehoboth Carpenter family descendants in America have played their part in every aspect of American history, including the ancestry of at least two U.S. presidents - George H. W. Bush, 41st President of the United States (1989–1993) and father of George Walker Bush George W. Bush, 43rd President.
There is no record to confirm it, but it is said that certain Rehoboth Carpenters were among the founders of the Rehoboth (Newman) Congregational Church, located in present-day Rumford, Rhode Island (site of the original Rehoboth settlement). This much we know: William (Gen. 2) Carpenter's admission as a Massachusetts Bay Colony freeman from Weymouth in 1640 required church membership. The minister at Weymouth was Rev. Samuel Newman, most of whose congregation accompanied him to Rehoboth, where he was also the minister. William (Gen. 2) Carpenter was one of Rehoboth's fifty-eight original proprietors and is buried in Old Rehoboth (Newman Church) Cemetery. (While records of the time provide no direct evidence as to the religious affiliation of William (Gen. 2) Carpenter of Rehoboth, he was certainly not a Baptist, even though other Carpenters in New England were. In this regard, he is sometimes confused with William_Carpenter_(Rhode_Island) of Providence and others. [5]
William Carpenter (Rhode Island) - The first Carpenter to make permanent settlement in America.
Eugene Cole Zubrinsky.
"LINKS TO SKETCHES AND ARTICLES REPRESENTING THE MOST CURRENT AND RELIABLE SCHOLARSHIP CONCERNING EARLY GENERATIONS OF THE CARPENTER FAMILIES OF REHOBOTH, MASSACHUSETTS, AND PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND, AND THEIR ANCESTORS". Carpenters' Encyclopedia of Carpenters 2008 Update. Retrieved 4/7/2009. {{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
(
help) - A very detailed and comprehensive sources list is provided in those sketches.
Carpenter (surname) - People associated with the Carpenter surname.
[[Category:American families]] [[Category:Rehoboth Carpenters]] {{DEFAULTSORT:Carpenter, William}} [[Category:1605 births]] [[Category:1575 births]] [[Category:1685 deaths]] [[Category:1659 deaths]] [[Category:English Americans]] [[Category:Massachusetts colonial people]]
GIVE ME INPUT. IS THIS MORE ACCEPTABLE TO ALL? Jrcrin001 ( talk) 22:03, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
- Regarding Compromise Article dated 20 April 2009 - Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~ Please do not remove this survey until complete.
Other than user Iwanafish who refuses to discuss, communicate or vote, it appears the compromise version is acceptable. No doubt it will need to be tweaked here and there by better wiki editors. I have posted the compromise article on 12 May 2009. John R. Carpenter Jrcrin001 ( talk) 07:07, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Iwannafish uses 160.244.140.202 as an alias to avoid detection by Wikipedia editor sanctions. He is watching the article because he recently removed the Bevis passenger list picture that shows William Carpenter as "clutter." No comment or discussion given. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 06:32, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
The current (25 April 2009) version of this article is laced with errors and speculative claims for which editor Iwanafish (sock-puppet username 160.244.140.202) is primarily responsible. While refusing to correct his mistakes and remove his wild assertions, he has repeatedly and without discussion deleted the revisions of others. Iwanafish’s poor scholarship and incivility have necessitated the following critique. It is hoped that uninitiated readers (including editors) will gain sufficient factual knowledge from the corrective material below to reject the version in question on the basis of its erroneous and misleading content.
“Savage in his ‘A Genealogical Dictionary of The First Settlers of New England Before 1692’ traced the recorded origins of this family to a father (b. 1576) and son William Carpenter (1605-1659) who sailed for Weymouth, Massachusetts, on the Bevis from Southampton, England, in 1638.”
“The son William Carpenter Jr. appears in copious Plymouth Colony records and in the writings of John Winthrop.”
“He was among the founders of the new Rehoboth Colony in 1645.”
“Plymouth Colony records show him as a sympathizer of the newly emerging Baptist movement in America.”
“The portrait of him in Winthrop's writings, as well as the Plymouth Colony records, present a man of intense religious conviction as well as compassion.”
“The English origins were obscure for this family until the discovery of parish records in Bishops' transcripts.”
“The two William Carpenters had resided in the Berkshire village of Shalbourne, just outside Hungerford.”
“The appearance of William Carpenter Sr. in Shalbourne coincided with a childless Thomas Carpenter and wife Alice at adjacent Hungerford. Thomas Carpenter was a dyer and leading merchant of the town, who with others, gained the incorporation of the town from the crown. Thomas died in 1625 and an Alice was buried in Shalbourne just prior to the Carpenter emigration to Massachusetts.”
“A search of Westcourt Manor records reveals William Carpenter Sr. as a resident of Shalbourne and Westcourt Manor from 1608. Manor records from Culham, Oxfordshire contain various references to a father-son William Carpenter whose activities conform to Shalbourne records.”
“The Carpenters had inhabited Culham as a prosperous yeoman family from 1533 with a Thomas Carpenter of Culham and tenant of the Abbey of Abingdon. Carpenter tenants of the abbey extend back to the 1400s elsewhere in Berkshire.
“William Carpenter Sr. served as assessor of fines in the Culham Manor Court. Many pages of Latin records bearing his name are now in the Bodleian Library at Oxford.”
“William Carpenter Sr. educated his eldest son Robert at Oxford for the church.”
“Many of what were perhaps Robert's books made their way to Massachusetts in the possession of Carpenter's son William Carpenter Jr. (b. 1605).”
“In nearby Reading a Thomas Carpenter was mayor and has a place in the economic history of England.”
In the References section (there isn’t a single footnote), Iwanafish cites two sources: Amos B. Carpenter, A Genealogical History of the Rehoboth Branch of the Carpenter Family in America (Amherst, Mass., 1898), and Richard LeBaron Bowen, Early Rehoboth, Documented Historical Studies of Families and Events in This Plymouth Colony Township, 4 vols. (Rehoboth, Mass., 1945–1950). The former is highly unreliable, and little or nothing from the latter (certainly nothing incorporated accurately) appears in this article. Iwanafish (alias 160.244.140.202) is aware of authoritative journal articles and sketches pertaining to the early Carpenters of Rehoboth, yet he stubbornly persists in trading intellectual honesty for ego aggrandizement.
Although another editor's "compromise" version may soon replace that critiqued above, it is likely that Iwanafish will reverse it in favor of the latter. Readers should not be fooled by date changes or minor, "drive by" revisions of style, format, organization, etc. (the compromise version, by contrast, omits most of the offending passages). If the article continues to include statements such as those quoted above, readers will presumably know to give them no credence. GeneZub ( talk) 23:29, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Iwanafish aka
160.244.140.202
This is a warning for your continuing disruptive edits and deliberate vandalisim.
Caution: do not violate Wikipedia's
neutral point of view policy by inserting commentary or your personal analysis into an article, as you have done repeatedly with
Rehoboth Carpenter family,
Culham and now
John Carpenter (bishop).
You refuse to discuss, talk or converse. Your actions indicate you are deliberately causing harm to these articles for no apparent reason. It is childish, unprofessional and wrong. You need to stop. Maybe we need to contact your employer in Japan ...
John R. Carpenter Jrcrin001 ( talk) 23:05, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Based on the survey above with the assistance on many, the compromise artice has been posted. See notes above. The tags that were posted were removed pending review. The tags were: Disputed|date=May 2009}} Original research|date=May 2009}} NPOV|date=May 2009}} Refimprove|date=April 2009}} No footnotes|date=April 2009}} It appears that all of these issues were resolved with the compromise version. John R. Carpenter Jrcrin001 ( talk) 07:10, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I just cleaned up some non-standard formatting and layout as follows:
– ukexpat ( talk) 14:18, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Tag removed - it was hiding other discussion. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 08:42, 16 May 2009 (UTC) Jrcrin001 ( talk) 03:03, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Article could use help if not complete rewrite (actually, talk page could use help to, a first for me). I scratched the surface if that. Thanks, -- Tom (talk) 00:41, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Time to archive the above? Jrcrin001 ( talk) 19:20, 20 July 2009 (UTC)