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> New York City subways are about to see this installed.
Among confusions about the hybrid cars, many seem to believe that hybrid is mainly to allows regenerative breaking ? It is not. Hybrid is one way to avoid the lost of efficiency of powerful piston gas engine when running at low power, the Quasiturbine photo-detonation engine being one other possibility. Regenerative braking energy recovery is insignificant on the highway, little when the battery are near fully charge, limited to soft breaking (heavy breaking exceeding recovery power capability), and none for now from the back wheels (still waste energy to standard friction brakes) http://www.hybridcars.com/renerative-braking.html . It is however valuable in intense city driving, and is also of course an asset of most hybrid concepts. Regenerative braking system can also exist independanty from hybrid. City driving car energy use is shown at : http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv.shtml Gilles
1: i was under the impression that rehostatic breaking rather than friction breaking was used if there was nowhere to put the regenerated power. 2: i presume deisel electrics still generally rely on rehostatic breaking (though i've heared a few are now using batteries) is this correct?
Hope that helps. Matthew Brown (Morven) ( T: C) 23:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Dynamic brakes should probably get their own section, since theres significant discussion about them - and as of right now, the explantion and definition are badly placed. Fresheneesz 20:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I added some dynamic braking material to the Diesel-electric article. On further thought, I'm wondering whether there's enough detail to justify a separate article. Dynamic braking is a natural outgrowth of Diesel-electric propulsion, so it is really a subsystem of the overall package. Bigdumbdinosaur 17:03, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
This article currently has no sources for its information, so I've tagged it as {{ unreferenced}}. We need these not only to back up the statements made but to expand on them to provide some details. For instance, there is no real information about how regenerative brakes came to be. The article currently says they are "descended from dynamic brakes", but there is no separate article on the latter. The earliest date is a vague "mid-20th century", by which time the ancestors of these brakes were already implemented in trains, etc. Clearly there must have been more history than this. Does anyone have some sources for these details? Thanks. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
I have added some cross references with other articles to describe the history, but sources are still needed. ~ Bryan 19:50, 23 Aug 2006 (UTC)
I have updated and changed the section about use of KERS in F1. The citation to comments from Max Mosley were not accurate with regards to formula one cars being completely hybrid by 2013. It has been introduced, the teams are fitting the systems and will race with them for the first time this year.
Instead I cited recent comments from the teams.
At some point I'll find more details of tests of KERS in formula one.
Daniel.finnan ( talk) 01:05, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
I think the current regen braking article is cluttered and somewhat disorganized. References to dynamic braking should be eliminated, as they are not germane to the article (except clarification should be kept to indicate that dynamic and regenerative braking are not the same). Bigdumbdinosaur 17:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I'll try to find references for my facts but for now they come from professional knowledge. I'm not sure about the US, but in the UK Rheostatic braking is distinct from dynamic braking. Rheostatic braking being the dissipation of braking energy through resistor grids. As stated regenerative braking returns the generated current back to the line to be used by an accelerating train in a nearby section or back to the supply grid. Research and development continues into acceptable methods of energy storage.
The traction supply may not always be receptive to regenerated current and so in most practical applications a regenerative braking system also has the ability to use Rheostatic braking. Dynamic braking describes such a system. Three of the London Underground Rolling Stock uses dynamic braking 92TS (Central Line), 95TS (Northern Line) and 96TS (Jubilee Line). The system used by the 92TS is known a Dynamic Blending. As electrical brake is ineffective below 10mph the use of the friction brake has to be blended in as the electrical brake cannot maintain the demanded deceleration rate. The 92TS has motors driving every axle and so dynamic braking can be employed at every position. The 95TS and 96TS, however have either 2 and 3 trailer cars respectively in the train formation. These trailers don't have motors and so cannot brake electrically. The system used on these stocks are known as Cross Blending. The braking control unit measures braking rates for each car and for the unit as a whole and balances the braking from the electrical and friction brakes. The electrical brake in used in preference.
The big benefit of regenerative braking is for urban railways and metros where the trains have a short journey time between stations 2 to 3 minutes on London Underground. Regenerative braking metros around the world can safe up to 45% of traction energy requirements.
As I say I don't have references for this that are available in the public domain, but I hope this help to direct the arguement. If am able to find public domain references I will add.
So this is kinda like down shifting in a car and using the transmission to slow down? HeadMouse 11:47, 14 May 2007 (UTC)HeadMouse
Regenerative Braking isn't exclusive to the conversion of kinetic energy into electrical energy. It can also refer to the transfer of kinetic energy into potential energy (compressed air or oil) via pneumatics or hydraulics while breaking. See, for example, this article at www.greencarcongress.com for its description of Regenerative Braking. See also hydraulic launch assist at www.designnews.com ~ Five 5 fingers 17:07, 14 Aug 2007 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:31, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
The article says "KERS simply transfers the kinetic energy to a flywheel in the F1 car’s transmission when the driver presses a “boost” button." I am fairly certain this is the wrong way around, the energy is released from the flywheel when the driver presses boost. Any objections to changing it? Abhi.mittal ( talk) 13:35, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Is it possible to recharge an electric car with regenerative brakes while being towed by riding the brakes ever so slightly not to engage the friction brakes? Towel401 ( talk) 18:08, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Why, yes. It most certainly would work, but the tow truck driver would probably object to you charging your car with his fuel... IF he found out. Swiftek ( talk) 21:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi i removed this statement "The Honda Racing F1 Team became the first team to introduce and test a development F1 KERS system on track in May of 2008" it needs a cite and is wrong anyway, Mclaren introduced KERS in to Forumula one back in the 90's, but it was banned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.173.86.208 ( talk) 17:31, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
"The regenerative braking effect rapidly reduces at lower speeds, therefore the friction brake is still required in order to bring the vehicle to a complete halt."
What is the source for this rubbish? Electric motors (appropriately controlled) can provide constant torque down to zero speed. This statement would be appropriate if aerodynamic brakes were being discussed.
As it stands, I feel it is dangerous nonsense and should be removed from the article.
—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
92.238.216.129 (
talk) 19:39, 23 November 2008
The system uses 400V, 200A circuitry... according to the F1 Australia 2009 pre-race show on SPEED. 76.66.193.69 ( talk) 05:56, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
From the article:
Try ca 1908 -
Krieger Electric Carriage - also petrol/electric hybrids !
--
195.137.93.171 (
talk) 21:08, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
There has been development in regen brakes in e-bikes, see for example https://stealthelectricbikes.com/2018/06/07/how-does-regenerative-braking-work-for-an-electric-bike/.
disagrees with this article in that it says dynamic braking can be regenerative. Only one of them can be correct. Betaben ( talk) 11:53, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
It says here: "Vodafone McLaren Mercedes became the first team to win a F1 GP using a KERS equipped car when Lewis Hamilton won the Hungarian Grand Prix July 26th 2009. Their second KERS equipped car finished fifth." Surely, it is more important to note that first and second place were both KERS cars, rather than just note that the second car of a specific team came 5th. After all, this is an article about how well KERS works, not how well the team did. Betaben ( talk) 11:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
"In November 2008 it was announced that Freescale Semiconductor would collaborate with McLaren Electronic Systems to further develop its KERS for McLaren's Formula One car from 2010 onwards. Both parties believed this collaboration would improve McLaren's KERS system and help the system filter down to road car technology". this is old news as 2010 KERS is out. Also under Car Manufactures not relevant. Suggest a separate article for KERS in F1.-- Mrebus ( talk) 17:14, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Designers of The Very Light Car discussed their design on public radio, giving a 30% figure for either RB efficiency, or overall savings from RB -- but it was not clear if the base was overall fuel consumption or pre-braking momentum! It would be good for the article to include some verifiably typical #s for
--
Jerzy•
t 21:08, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Regen is typically quoted as recovering 30% of the braking energy in an urban drive. As such the overall benefit to fuel consumption is nothing to write home about, but is a step change. I think it is about 5%. 95% of stops are at 0.3g or less, regen should be able to cope with that. The round trip efficiency from motor to battery to motor is unlikely to exceed 60%. Greglocock ( talk) 23:22, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
I've taken the liberty of rewording the introduction. The fourth sentence was grammatically and syntactically incorrect (possibly due to an incomplete edit?), and the first paragraph repeated a couple of statements. I felt it was possible to say this more clearly and in fewer words. I've also changed the wikilink at compressed air to point at the more specific Compressed air energy storage article, since the flywheel wikilink similarly points to the article on flywheel energy storage rather than flywheels in general (IIRC this is WP policy anyway). No toes trodden on, I hope? RedGreenInBlue ( talk) 14:29, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Does anybody here have contacts that can provide a "way in" to somewhere like Bosch? I'm in Germany already. I don't have the time or resources to prototype and patent my idea myself, but I would like to see if I've got something here. Email me on wbraveheartw@gmail.com if interested. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.155.216.235 ( talk) 10:13, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Kinetic Energy Recovery System redirects here, but Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems (plural) is a separate page. This seems sub-optimal to me. I have no expertise in this area to find out how to merge them and no time to do the merge them myself, so I'd like to ask anybody who can to have a look and see if this can and should be done. — SkyLined ( talk) 15:35, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Sorry if this is a stupid question. This article mainly focuses on conventional rotary motors (understandably, as they are used by most railways in the world), but is regenerative braking also possible with linear induction motors? JaneStillman ( talk) 20:24, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Yes, see Stribrsky, A., Hyniova, K., Honcu, J. and Kruczek, A., 2007, June. Energy recuperation in automotive active suspension systems with linear electric motor. In Control & Automation, 2007. MED'07. Mediterranean Conference on (pp. 1-5). IEEE. Specialsymbol ( talk) 14:43, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
I reorganised this article into a section on general principles, one on conversion to electric energy (copied most of the text into that) and one on mechanical energy. As suggested above, a lot of non-electric topics could go into that last section. I made the KERS stuff part of this, but I think it contains too much detail which deserves its own page ( Kinetic energy recovery system): I propose replacing this section with a short summary and leaving the 'Main article: ...' link. Now just adding a small example of flywheel application... -- StevenDH ( talk) 19:23, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
This section in the article appears to be mistitled; it does not have any information on thermodynamics.
Unless the braking system is capturing and using heat, any technical information on energy capture/conversion/use should be discussed in relevant terms, e.g.: kinetic forms (mechanical) and potential forms (electric). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pf416 ( talk • contribs) 13:10, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: moved per request. Favonian ( talk) 17:19, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
Regenerative brake → Regenerative braking – For some reason I feel 'regenerative braking' sounds better, while 'regenerative brake' sounds wrong and also seems to be much less used. Both sound like a verb to me, but I might be wrong. Sauer202 ( talk) 16:41, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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> New York City subways are about to see this installed.
Among confusions about the hybrid cars, many seem to believe that hybrid is mainly to allows regenerative breaking ? It is not. Hybrid is one way to avoid the lost of efficiency of powerful piston gas engine when running at low power, the Quasiturbine photo-detonation engine being one other possibility. Regenerative braking energy recovery is insignificant on the highway, little when the battery are near fully charge, limited to soft breaking (heavy breaking exceeding recovery power capability), and none for now from the back wheels (still waste energy to standard friction brakes) http://www.hybridcars.com/renerative-braking.html . It is however valuable in intense city driving, and is also of course an asset of most hybrid concepts. Regenerative braking system can also exist independanty from hybrid. City driving car energy use is shown at : http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv.shtml Gilles
1: i was under the impression that rehostatic breaking rather than friction breaking was used if there was nowhere to put the regenerated power. 2: i presume deisel electrics still generally rely on rehostatic breaking (though i've heared a few are now using batteries) is this correct?
Hope that helps. Matthew Brown (Morven) ( T: C) 23:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Dynamic brakes should probably get their own section, since theres significant discussion about them - and as of right now, the explantion and definition are badly placed. Fresheneesz 20:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I added some dynamic braking material to the Diesel-electric article. On further thought, I'm wondering whether there's enough detail to justify a separate article. Dynamic braking is a natural outgrowth of Diesel-electric propulsion, so it is really a subsystem of the overall package. Bigdumbdinosaur 17:03, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
This article currently has no sources for its information, so I've tagged it as {{ unreferenced}}. We need these not only to back up the statements made but to expand on them to provide some details. For instance, there is no real information about how regenerative brakes came to be. The article currently says they are "descended from dynamic brakes", but there is no separate article on the latter. The earliest date is a vague "mid-20th century", by which time the ancestors of these brakes were already implemented in trains, etc. Clearly there must have been more history than this. Does anyone have some sources for these details? Thanks. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
I have added some cross references with other articles to describe the history, but sources are still needed. ~ Bryan 19:50, 23 Aug 2006 (UTC)
I have updated and changed the section about use of KERS in F1. The citation to comments from Max Mosley were not accurate with regards to formula one cars being completely hybrid by 2013. It has been introduced, the teams are fitting the systems and will race with them for the first time this year.
Instead I cited recent comments from the teams.
At some point I'll find more details of tests of KERS in formula one.
Daniel.finnan ( talk) 01:05, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
I think the current regen braking article is cluttered and somewhat disorganized. References to dynamic braking should be eliminated, as they are not germane to the article (except clarification should be kept to indicate that dynamic and regenerative braking are not the same). Bigdumbdinosaur 17:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I'll try to find references for my facts but for now they come from professional knowledge. I'm not sure about the US, but in the UK Rheostatic braking is distinct from dynamic braking. Rheostatic braking being the dissipation of braking energy through resistor grids. As stated regenerative braking returns the generated current back to the line to be used by an accelerating train in a nearby section or back to the supply grid. Research and development continues into acceptable methods of energy storage.
The traction supply may not always be receptive to regenerated current and so in most practical applications a regenerative braking system also has the ability to use Rheostatic braking. Dynamic braking describes such a system. Three of the London Underground Rolling Stock uses dynamic braking 92TS (Central Line), 95TS (Northern Line) and 96TS (Jubilee Line). The system used by the 92TS is known a Dynamic Blending. As electrical brake is ineffective below 10mph the use of the friction brake has to be blended in as the electrical brake cannot maintain the demanded deceleration rate. The 92TS has motors driving every axle and so dynamic braking can be employed at every position. The 95TS and 96TS, however have either 2 and 3 trailer cars respectively in the train formation. These trailers don't have motors and so cannot brake electrically. The system used on these stocks are known as Cross Blending. The braking control unit measures braking rates for each car and for the unit as a whole and balances the braking from the electrical and friction brakes. The electrical brake in used in preference.
The big benefit of regenerative braking is for urban railways and metros where the trains have a short journey time between stations 2 to 3 minutes on London Underground. Regenerative braking metros around the world can safe up to 45% of traction energy requirements.
As I say I don't have references for this that are available in the public domain, but I hope this help to direct the arguement. If am able to find public domain references I will add.
So this is kinda like down shifting in a car and using the transmission to slow down? HeadMouse 11:47, 14 May 2007 (UTC)HeadMouse
Regenerative Braking isn't exclusive to the conversion of kinetic energy into electrical energy. It can also refer to the transfer of kinetic energy into potential energy (compressed air or oil) via pneumatics or hydraulics while breaking. See, for example, this article at www.greencarcongress.com for its description of Regenerative Braking. See also hydraulic launch assist at www.designnews.com ~ Five 5 fingers 17:07, 14 Aug 2007 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:31, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
The article says "KERS simply transfers the kinetic energy to a flywheel in the F1 car’s transmission when the driver presses a “boost” button." I am fairly certain this is the wrong way around, the energy is released from the flywheel when the driver presses boost. Any objections to changing it? Abhi.mittal ( talk) 13:35, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Is it possible to recharge an electric car with regenerative brakes while being towed by riding the brakes ever so slightly not to engage the friction brakes? Towel401 ( talk) 18:08, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Why, yes. It most certainly would work, but the tow truck driver would probably object to you charging your car with his fuel... IF he found out. Swiftek ( talk) 21:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi i removed this statement "The Honda Racing F1 Team became the first team to introduce and test a development F1 KERS system on track in May of 2008" it needs a cite and is wrong anyway, Mclaren introduced KERS in to Forumula one back in the 90's, but it was banned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.173.86.208 ( talk) 17:31, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
"The regenerative braking effect rapidly reduces at lower speeds, therefore the friction brake is still required in order to bring the vehicle to a complete halt."
What is the source for this rubbish? Electric motors (appropriately controlled) can provide constant torque down to zero speed. This statement would be appropriate if aerodynamic brakes were being discussed.
As it stands, I feel it is dangerous nonsense and should be removed from the article.
—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
92.238.216.129 (
talk) 19:39, 23 November 2008
The system uses 400V, 200A circuitry... according to the F1 Australia 2009 pre-race show on SPEED. 76.66.193.69 ( talk) 05:56, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
From the article:
Try ca 1908 -
Krieger Electric Carriage - also petrol/electric hybrids !
--
195.137.93.171 (
talk) 21:08, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
There has been development in regen brakes in e-bikes, see for example https://stealthelectricbikes.com/2018/06/07/how-does-regenerative-braking-work-for-an-electric-bike/.
disagrees with this article in that it says dynamic braking can be regenerative. Only one of them can be correct. Betaben ( talk) 11:53, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
It says here: "Vodafone McLaren Mercedes became the first team to win a F1 GP using a KERS equipped car when Lewis Hamilton won the Hungarian Grand Prix July 26th 2009. Their second KERS equipped car finished fifth." Surely, it is more important to note that first and second place were both KERS cars, rather than just note that the second car of a specific team came 5th. After all, this is an article about how well KERS works, not how well the team did. Betaben ( talk) 11:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
"In November 2008 it was announced that Freescale Semiconductor would collaborate with McLaren Electronic Systems to further develop its KERS for McLaren's Formula One car from 2010 onwards. Both parties believed this collaboration would improve McLaren's KERS system and help the system filter down to road car technology". this is old news as 2010 KERS is out. Also under Car Manufactures not relevant. Suggest a separate article for KERS in F1.-- Mrebus ( talk) 17:14, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Designers of The Very Light Car discussed their design on public radio, giving a 30% figure for either RB efficiency, or overall savings from RB -- but it was not clear if the base was overall fuel consumption or pre-braking momentum! It would be good for the article to include some verifiably typical #s for
--
Jerzy•
t 21:08, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Regen is typically quoted as recovering 30% of the braking energy in an urban drive. As such the overall benefit to fuel consumption is nothing to write home about, but is a step change. I think it is about 5%. 95% of stops are at 0.3g or less, regen should be able to cope with that. The round trip efficiency from motor to battery to motor is unlikely to exceed 60%. Greglocock ( talk) 23:22, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
I've taken the liberty of rewording the introduction. The fourth sentence was grammatically and syntactically incorrect (possibly due to an incomplete edit?), and the first paragraph repeated a couple of statements. I felt it was possible to say this more clearly and in fewer words. I've also changed the wikilink at compressed air to point at the more specific Compressed air energy storage article, since the flywheel wikilink similarly points to the article on flywheel energy storage rather than flywheels in general (IIRC this is WP policy anyway). No toes trodden on, I hope? RedGreenInBlue ( talk) 14:29, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Does anybody here have contacts that can provide a "way in" to somewhere like Bosch? I'm in Germany already. I don't have the time or resources to prototype and patent my idea myself, but I would like to see if I've got something here. Email me on wbraveheartw@gmail.com if interested. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.155.216.235 ( talk) 10:13, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Kinetic Energy Recovery System redirects here, but Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems (plural) is a separate page. This seems sub-optimal to me. I have no expertise in this area to find out how to merge them and no time to do the merge them myself, so I'd like to ask anybody who can to have a look and see if this can and should be done. — SkyLined ( talk) 15:35, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Sorry if this is a stupid question. This article mainly focuses on conventional rotary motors (understandably, as they are used by most railways in the world), but is regenerative braking also possible with linear induction motors? JaneStillman ( talk) 20:24, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Yes, see Stribrsky, A., Hyniova, K., Honcu, J. and Kruczek, A., 2007, June. Energy recuperation in automotive active suspension systems with linear electric motor. In Control & Automation, 2007. MED'07. Mediterranean Conference on (pp. 1-5). IEEE. Specialsymbol ( talk) 14:43, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
I reorganised this article into a section on general principles, one on conversion to electric energy (copied most of the text into that) and one on mechanical energy. As suggested above, a lot of non-electric topics could go into that last section. I made the KERS stuff part of this, but I think it contains too much detail which deserves its own page ( Kinetic energy recovery system): I propose replacing this section with a short summary and leaving the 'Main article: ...' link. Now just adding a small example of flywheel application... -- StevenDH ( talk) 19:23, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
This section in the article appears to be mistitled; it does not have any information on thermodynamics.
Unless the braking system is capturing and using heat, any technical information on energy capture/conversion/use should be discussed in relevant terms, e.g.: kinetic forms (mechanical) and potential forms (electric). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pf416 ( talk • contribs) 13:10, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Regenerative brake. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 03:39, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: moved per request. Favonian ( talk) 17:19, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
Regenerative brake → Regenerative braking – For some reason I feel 'regenerative braking' sounds better, while 'regenerative brake' sounds wrong and also seems to be much less used. Both sound like a verb to me, but I might be wrong. Sauer202 ( talk) 16:41, 1 May 2022 (UTC)