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This page could do with some work: there is already information available, as the Security Council page has more information than this. JDH Owens 12:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
When mentioning that 1.2 Billion muslims would not be included under the G4 plan, you have forgot about India. India has the second largest number of muslims after Indonesia. In this sense, India can be seen as a "compromise candidate" for the Security Council.
I've removed this statement as it hardly seems NPOV. At the very least it's very poorly written since it's in the first person. However while it may have some valid points that are worth including, it also misses some other relevant points especially in comparison to current permanent member states. For example, German and Japan clearly have better domestic and international human rights records then China and Russia, and arguably so does Brazil and India. In fact Germany and Japan arguably have better human rights records then the USA. Also, it's highly arguable if any of these countries are worse threats to international peace and security then the USA, China and the UK. In fact, claiming a country is a threat to international peace and security is loaded IMHO and should be avoided whenever possible. In any case, if we're going to get into I'm better then you arguments, what about New Zealand or numerous other countries? For that matter, what about Canada's treatment of the native population? What about the issues between within Nordic countries (such as Denmark) regarding immigrants? What about the issues such as Norway's whaling and reported bribing of small countries to support their whaling? Also, I'm quite unsure about this but how do Nordic countries compare to others when it comes to their acceptance and treatement of refugees? All these apply to both human rights issues and international peace and security Nil Einne 13:49, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Seriously, what's up with the painfully obvious anti-Japanese POV in the Japan section? Is it even necessary to say that some countries that support Japan's SC application receive aid from Japan? Funny, the US, France, and the UK all don't receive any aid from Japan, and they support Japan's bid. For that matter, China has received large amounts of aid from Japan, yet they are just about the only country in the world that opposes Japan's bid. Should that be mentioned too?
This is supposed to be an impartial wiki, not a soapbox for the People's Republic of China and its supporters. I suggest that that section be looked at and revised. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.205.156.252 ( talk) 13:12, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
Actually, Japan has made plenty of apologies -- it's just that it tends to cast doubt on the sincerity of its own apologies with Yosukuni shrine visits, textbook controversies, refusing to compensate "comfort women", etc. etc. I'm going to reword this. AnonMoos 03:12, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
I my mind, apology is not what you say, it is what you do. If you apologize to us today and go to the Yasukuni Shrine tomorrow, that is not apology; that is insulting.
The first off-site link: [1] is no longer an available web page. I was able to find a very detailed explanation of the Italian proposal, as well as an enumeration of various other proposals: [2] here. Notice that this is a Google cached page; the original is unavailable as the Italian embassy recently moved their website. There are several other instances where it is possible to find references to the Italian proposal, even references to the tenets of that proposal. However, I wasn’t able to find anything nearly as exhaustive as this. Maybe in a few weeks the Italian Embassy will have its website complete and will move the original of the Google cached page there, but for now this seemed like the best link. So that explains this edit.
Also, link #2, link #4 and link #6 on the main page [3] [4] and [5] are broken. It looks like Reuters.com only keeps stories on archive for a very limited time, so might not be a good choice for citing sources. After dredging the net for an alternate to the previous link, I didn’t have time to look for a fix here. If anyone has free time and is ambitious, these other links could use fixing. Shanecs 04:07, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I removed the above statement. While the above is true, it appears to have entirely missed the point. The permanent members when the UN was formed were the victorous powers of WW2. Obviously, this did not include Germany. The fact that Germany was chaotic and under the control of the permanent members was kind of irrelevant. Also, why don't we mention the same thing applies to Japan (it was chaotic and under the control of the US)? For that matter, India was still under the control of the UK in 1945 although this had nothing to do with WW2. My point is that the reasons why these countries were not part of the original 5 permanent members is obvious and there's no need to mention it here, especially if it's unsourced. Nil Einne 08:08, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Is the Worldview boilerplate in the Positions section really necessary? I would think the letter and spirit of the boilerplate would be to denote sections of U.S. worldview that try to pass themselves off as general worldview, and not bits that are denoted specifically as a U.S. position. -- Kitch ( Talk : Contrib) 05:21, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree that it is not given the title of that section. The section should be expanded though.
in the 63 general assamble, Sartozy support the expantion of Security Council, and G8 [6] i not logged in that language of wikipedia, i am fero in spanish —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.255.34.237 ( talk) 21:35, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
It strikes me as editorialising.
"The veto power, however, is the most defining characteristic of a permanent member and in the eyes of the G4 countries, to be denied the veto power is just a way for the five current permanent members to retain their superiority."
I'll delete it on 20 January 2009 if no one has any objections. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.38.32.5 ( talk) 11:46, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Kidding or what, check this first
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
India military is stronger than UK?France?Russia?Japan?China? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.117.219 ( talk) 21:36, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
No, not kidding. They mean by size of the armed forces. And yes, bigger than UK, France, Russia even: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_active_troops.
68.43.177.132 ( talk) 05:22, 20 March 2009 (UTC)uribe.
I don't know how to answer such an absurd question but I will still do it. French( NATO influence that's most of it), UK goes where US goes, Russia still nursing its Soviet Union collapse wounds, Japan said goodbye to military might the day US nuked them and still under US influence. CHINA IS BETTER THAN INDIA( military and economy, not so sure about human rights though ), HAS LARGER MILITARY THAN USA AND INDIA, BETTER OPERATIONAL READINESS THAN INDIA BUT INDIA HAS STATE OF THE ART WEAPON PLATFORMS FROM ISRAEL, RUSSIA, U.S, FRANCE so in all India is a sleeping giant with lots of capabilities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aze0098 ( talk • contribs) 03:22, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
From the article: "Japan has been one of the largest ODA donor countries." Now, what is that? I think not the Ontario Dental Association, but what do I know... Mátyás ( talk) 13:35, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
What use has the whole of the UN of permanent UNSC members? Would it be not more democratic to have them all be elected periodically? Why should any one country be so distinguished in the UN, when it is based on equality, among other things? Mátyás ( talk) 14:01, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
It is not clear whether China backs India's candidature of UNSC, and hence that is being edited out by me, please provide a credible source and reinstate the statement if that is the case. United States however has backed India's candidature recently and will be updated so. Kniwor ( talk) 13:54, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
It is the richest and most developed African countries and that should be changed. It's under the African section. 174.3.167.186 ( talk) 04:08, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
For the purpose of clarity and understandablity, a map alongside the list of countries supporting India's candidature would be very helpful.
I also suggest the countries' names to be given in bullets, even though it may, at the same time, compromise article length with clarity — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.194.96.145 ( talk) 22:59, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
The second part of the second paragraph of the article's introduction isn't clear: "The reform of the Security Council requires the agreement of at least two-thirds of UN member states and that of all the permanent members of the UNSC, enjoying the veto right." -- Lacarids ( talk) 03:06, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
The article says, "The Greek position is in favour of both expansion and improving the Security Council's working methods, supporting the so-called 'group of four' proposal put forward by Germany, Japan, India and Brazil. This calls for an increase of the Security Council's member-states to 25 with the addition of six new permanent members and four new non-permanent members". Reference http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/10/52709 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.87.160.123 ( talk) 05:43, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
India, now one of nations witnessing rapid economic growth has strengthened its claim to a permanent UNSC seat. Also stronger, faster and more vociferous efforts under the new Narendra Modi led Government has given the Republic' claims much more weightage. Prime Minister, Narendra Modi's speeches on the subject and India recent efforts should be included in the article, soonest possible.
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source #16 is a link to the "home" site of Reuters, not to the actual article + news agencies are not a scientific source. We can do better on this topic. Scarecrow0815 ( talk) 15:56, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Is it just me or is this table getting a little unreasonable? Doyna Yar ( talk) 20:31, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
Says ten year gap from 2010 to 2011?
What is this paragraph? It links to a german site with no explanation as to what relevance this site has, and it's not even properly marked as someone else's opinion, making it seem as though Wikipedia was pushing Saudi propaganda. I would suggest removing this section or adding credible and meaningful sources as well as reformulating. 2003:EE:CF34:B00:B01C:156:430B:985C ( talk) 17:52, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
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This page could do with some work: there is already information available, as the Security Council page has more information than this. JDH Owens 12:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
When mentioning that 1.2 Billion muslims would not be included under the G4 plan, you have forgot about India. India has the second largest number of muslims after Indonesia. In this sense, India can be seen as a "compromise candidate" for the Security Council.
I've removed this statement as it hardly seems NPOV. At the very least it's very poorly written since it's in the first person. However while it may have some valid points that are worth including, it also misses some other relevant points especially in comparison to current permanent member states. For example, German and Japan clearly have better domestic and international human rights records then China and Russia, and arguably so does Brazil and India. In fact Germany and Japan arguably have better human rights records then the USA. Also, it's highly arguable if any of these countries are worse threats to international peace and security then the USA, China and the UK. In fact, claiming a country is a threat to international peace and security is loaded IMHO and should be avoided whenever possible. In any case, if we're going to get into I'm better then you arguments, what about New Zealand or numerous other countries? For that matter, what about Canada's treatment of the native population? What about the issues between within Nordic countries (such as Denmark) regarding immigrants? What about the issues such as Norway's whaling and reported bribing of small countries to support their whaling? Also, I'm quite unsure about this but how do Nordic countries compare to others when it comes to their acceptance and treatement of refugees? All these apply to both human rights issues and international peace and security Nil Einne 13:49, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Seriously, what's up with the painfully obvious anti-Japanese POV in the Japan section? Is it even necessary to say that some countries that support Japan's SC application receive aid from Japan? Funny, the US, France, and the UK all don't receive any aid from Japan, and they support Japan's bid. For that matter, China has received large amounts of aid from Japan, yet they are just about the only country in the world that opposes Japan's bid. Should that be mentioned too?
This is supposed to be an impartial wiki, not a soapbox for the People's Republic of China and its supporters. I suggest that that section be looked at and revised. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.205.156.252 ( talk) 13:12, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
Actually, Japan has made plenty of apologies -- it's just that it tends to cast doubt on the sincerity of its own apologies with Yosukuni shrine visits, textbook controversies, refusing to compensate "comfort women", etc. etc. I'm going to reword this. AnonMoos 03:12, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
I my mind, apology is not what you say, it is what you do. If you apologize to us today and go to the Yasukuni Shrine tomorrow, that is not apology; that is insulting.
The first off-site link: [1] is no longer an available web page. I was able to find a very detailed explanation of the Italian proposal, as well as an enumeration of various other proposals: [2] here. Notice that this is a Google cached page; the original is unavailable as the Italian embassy recently moved their website. There are several other instances where it is possible to find references to the Italian proposal, even references to the tenets of that proposal. However, I wasn’t able to find anything nearly as exhaustive as this. Maybe in a few weeks the Italian Embassy will have its website complete and will move the original of the Google cached page there, but for now this seemed like the best link. So that explains this edit.
Also, link #2, link #4 and link #6 on the main page [3] [4] and [5] are broken. It looks like Reuters.com only keeps stories on archive for a very limited time, so might not be a good choice for citing sources. After dredging the net for an alternate to the previous link, I didn’t have time to look for a fix here. If anyone has free time and is ambitious, these other links could use fixing. Shanecs 04:07, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I removed the above statement. While the above is true, it appears to have entirely missed the point. The permanent members when the UN was formed were the victorous powers of WW2. Obviously, this did not include Germany. The fact that Germany was chaotic and under the control of the permanent members was kind of irrelevant. Also, why don't we mention the same thing applies to Japan (it was chaotic and under the control of the US)? For that matter, India was still under the control of the UK in 1945 although this had nothing to do with WW2. My point is that the reasons why these countries were not part of the original 5 permanent members is obvious and there's no need to mention it here, especially if it's unsourced. Nil Einne 08:08, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Is the Worldview boilerplate in the Positions section really necessary? I would think the letter and spirit of the boilerplate would be to denote sections of U.S. worldview that try to pass themselves off as general worldview, and not bits that are denoted specifically as a U.S. position. -- Kitch ( Talk : Contrib) 05:21, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree that it is not given the title of that section. The section should be expanded though.
in the 63 general assamble, Sartozy support the expantion of Security Council, and G8 [6] i not logged in that language of wikipedia, i am fero in spanish —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.255.34.237 ( talk) 21:35, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
It strikes me as editorialising.
"The veto power, however, is the most defining characteristic of a permanent member and in the eyes of the G4 countries, to be denied the veto power is just a way for the five current permanent members to retain their superiority."
I'll delete it on 20 January 2009 if no one has any objections. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.38.32.5 ( talk) 11:46, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Kidding or what, check this first
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
India military is stronger than UK?France?Russia?Japan?China? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.117.219 ( talk) 21:36, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
No, not kidding. They mean by size of the armed forces. And yes, bigger than UK, France, Russia even: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_active_troops.
68.43.177.132 ( talk) 05:22, 20 March 2009 (UTC)uribe.
I don't know how to answer such an absurd question but I will still do it. French( NATO influence that's most of it), UK goes where US goes, Russia still nursing its Soviet Union collapse wounds, Japan said goodbye to military might the day US nuked them and still under US influence. CHINA IS BETTER THAN INDIA( military and economy, not so sure about human rights though ), HAS LARGER MILITARY THAN USA AND INDIA, BETTER OPERATIONAL READINESS THAN INDIA BUT INDIA HAS STATE OF THE ART WEAPON PLATFORMS FROM ISRAEL, RUSSIA, U.S, FRANCE so in all India is a sleeping giant with lots of capabilities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aze0098 ( talk • contribs) 03:22, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
From the article: "Japan has been one of the largest ODA donor countries." Now, what is that? I think not the Ontario Dental Association, but what do I know... Mátyás ( talk) 13:35, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
What use has the whole of the UN of permanent UNSC members? Would it be not more democratic to have them all be elected periodically? Why should any one country be so distinguished in the UN, when it is based on equality, among other things? Mátyás ( talk) 14:01, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
It is not clear whether China backs India's candidature of UNSC, and hence that is being edited out by me, please provide a credible source and reinstate the statement if that is the case. United States however has backed India's candidature recently and will be updated so. Kniwor ( talk) 13:54, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
It is the richest and most developed African countries and that should be changed. It's under the African section. 174.3.167.186 ( talk) 04:08, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
For the purpose of clarity and understandablity, a map alongside the list of countries supporting India's candidature would be very helpful.
I also suggest the countries' names to be given in bullets, even though it may, at the same time, compromise article length with clarity — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.194.96.145 ( talk) 22:59, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
The second part of the second paragraph of the article's introduction isn't clear: "The reform of the Security Council requires the agreement of at least two-thirds of UN member states and that of all the permanent members of the UNSC, enjoying the veto right." -- Lacarids ( talk) 03:06, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
The article says, "The Greek position is in favour of both expansion and improving the Security Council's working methods, supporting the so-called 'group of four' proposal put forward by Germany, Japan, India and Brazil. This calls for an increase of the Security Council's member-states to 25 with the addition of six new permanent members and four new non-permanent members". Reference http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/10/52709 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.87.160.123 ( talk) 05:43, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
India, now one of nations witnessing rapid economic growth has strengthened its claim to a permanent UNSC seat. Also stronger, faster and more vociferous efforts under the new Narendra Modi led Government has given the Republic' claims much more weightage. Prime Minister, Narendra Modi's speeches on the subject and India recent efforts should be included in the article, soonest possible.
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source #16 is a link to the "home" site of Reuters, not to the actual article + news agencies are not a scientific source. We can do better on this topic. Scarecrow0815 ( talk) 15:56, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Is it just me or is this table getting a little unreasonable? Doyna Yar ( talk) 20:31, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
Says ten year gap from 2010 to 2011?
What is this paragraph? It links to a german site with no explanation as to what relevance this site has, and it's not even properly marked as someone else's opinion, making it seem as though Wikipedia was pushing Saudi propaganda. I would suggest removing this section or adding credible and meaningful sources as well as reformulating. 2003:EE:CF34:B00:B01C:156:430B:985C ( talk) 17:52, 21 September 2022 (UTC)