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This article seems to be stuck about half-way between doing disambiguation and explaining the history of the reform movement and its terminology. This isn't helpful. The problem seems to be that there are at least three different meanings of the term "Reform Judaism", all of them closely related
now, strictly based on the content of the various linked articles, "Reform Judaism" (UK) corresponds to "Conservative Judaism" (US), and "Reform Judaism" (US) corresponds to "Liberal Judaism" (UK). This split in terminology developed in the early 20th century. In the 1920s, the problem was addressed by introducing the new term " Progressive Judaism" meant to include all of "Reform" (both meanings), "Liberal", "Conservative" and "Reconstructionist" branches, i.e. anything connected to the "reform movement" as opposed to Orthodox Judaism.
Keeping his story scattered over half a dozen pages isn't helpful to the uninitiated reader. I see two possibilities, either merge this entire page into Progressive Judaism and compile a section dedicated to coherently explaining terminology there, or else reduce this page to a simple disambiguation page, as follows, "Reform Judaism" may refer to:
-- dab (𒁳) 11:13, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Since the previous was unsigned, I'm not entirely sure whom I am responding to here.
All of this is a tempest in a teapot, if you ask me (which you haven't).
For the most part, I think that
AddMore der Zweite has been handling this situation fairly responsibly, and I can certainly assume good faith on that user's part. I can appreciate @
Debresser's concerns, though. All of this is happening about ten months after AddMore posted a query at
WT:JUDAISM, so it's not so fresh in people's minds. And one certainly must err on the side of (editorial) conservatism in vastly overhauling an article as long and as longstanding as this one.
AddMore, I think you should probably post one more time at
WT:JUDAISM. While it's fine for most of the description to remain here at
Talk:Reform Judaism, you ought to provide a little bit more detail at
WT:JUDAISM so people know what the question is. (That didn't really happen the last time you posted there.) After that, I think I'll be ok with your approach to untangling the terminology issues, provided that the following subjects don't get lost in the sauce:
User:Dave314159, excuse for bothering you. That tone template, is the style overly flamboyant, or non-factual? I'll correct it at once. AddMore der Zweite ( talk) 16:06, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
I have noticed that in the History section and subsection Beginnings that there seems to be some editorializing and polarizing language. I propose changing language that presents bias, as has been proposed by previous editors for different sections of the article, and refocus the rambling tendency of this subsection. I will also provide more citations throughout the section to back up what the article is saying. I'd also like to alert other editors that there are some terms and names that are undefined and make comprehension of the article more difficult. If someone opposes to the proposed changes, please comment here or on my talk page. Rebekah3152 ( talk) 17:50, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- I would like to add on to what Rebekah3152 has said. The article is a little bit vague on the original intent of Reform Judaism in the late 18th and early to mid 19th century in western Europe: ignoring the omission of Haskalah, there is no mention of the basic core of either modernizing the Jewish religion within the scope of European rationalism, i.e. as the editors of 'Modern Judaism' have noted (Nicholas de Lange & Miri Freud-Kandel) "This movement [Reform Judaism] decried the insularity, Talmudic focus, and kabbalistic orientation of early modern Ashkenazic Judaism, and it urged a twofold reform: (1) broadening and reorienting the curriculum for purposes of internal Jewish cultural renewal; and (2) training Jews with new skills for purposes of reapprorchment and participation in the Gentile world. Modern Judaism: an Oxford Guide; from pg. 33 This seems like a reasonable adjustment in clarity in the article, unless anyone objects to this change (AddMore-III included)? KyleCee17 ( talk) 04:23, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
Hi! I am a college student and am assigned this article in my writing and composition class. I am working on expanding and adding some sections on the article on Reform Judaism. So far, I have added a subsection on Reform Judaism post World War II and how the war has affected Reform Judaism. I also added a subsection on feminism, and talk about how Reform Judaism and feminism go hand in hand. I also added a subsection on "Tikkun Olam", or social justice, because it is important in Judaism, but especially in Reform Judaism. Lastly, I added a section on Reform Judaism in Israel, and how it has both started and evolved there. There is nothing that I would delete. However, I would place the "History" section in the beginning of the article rather than the end. I believe the structure would be more comprehensive that way. Please let me know if you have any questions or advice! Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aasherian ( talk • contribs) 22:34, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
Hi, I am a college student, and I feel this article encapsulates very well what Reform Judaism is and the history of it. I would love to add a section expanding different movements within Reform Judaism. I feel adding a section to this article explaining Women of the Wall While this movement isn't strictly a Reform Jewish movement, the primal leaders, especially Anat Hoffman, as well as several other women, are central to the movement and are also Reform Jews. I feel this would be a nice generalized addition to this article. The values of Women of the Wall are unmistakably parallel to the values of Reform Judaism. Providing this information within this article will also give a real-world situation that shows controversy in light of Reform Judaism within all of Judaism as a whole. I would explain what the movement is when it was established but specifically provide information on how this movement for a lot of Orthodox Jews, interferes with the importance of tradition but for Reform Jews, forwards an agenda of equality and prosperity. My main reference will be a Journal Article entitled, "Feminists in the Temple Orthodoxy. The Struggle of the Women of the Wall to Change the Status Quo". It was written by Shofar which is an Interdisciplinary Journal of Jewish Studies. If anyone would like to provide feedback or constructive criticism, I would love to hear anything. Gisellen ( talk) 16:46, 16 November 2017 (UTC)Gisellen Gisellen ( talk) 16:46, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
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My edit was taken out; among other things reviewer claimed that what was written was not substantiated by the reference; but I quote reference here directly: "Reform Jews accept the Torah as the foundation of Jewish life containing God’s ongoing revelation.." Ongoing-continuous have same meaning in this discussion. I believe reference is necessary as continuing revelation is a major difference from other branches of Judaism/ Mwinog2777 ( talk) 19:48, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
Regarding spontaneous minhag, the article continues "The advocates of this approach also stress that their responsa are of non-binding nature." What are "responsa"?-- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 03:16, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
@ (a)lizadoolittle: Why have you tagged this article as {{ copyvio}}? [1] The toolforge links in the template do not work ("source(s)" is not a valid URL) and the link to Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2022 May 31 lacks an entry for this article (which also means that it is somewhat unlikely that anyone is going to address the violation, seeing as June 7 has come and gone). Where specifically was text copied from? Should we re-list the article? -- N Y Kevin 06:35, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
Add a picture of a black female rabbi leading, to quickly illustrate what's it all about for those who don't bother reading. 24.225.138.50 ( talk) 14:40, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
@ חסיד צום רבי'ן made an edit on 21:29, 4 August 2023, adding statements calling Reform Judaism "not real Judaism" and "was created when people became too lazy to keep real Judaism but still wanted the benefit of being called 'Jewish'." Their edit was reverted, and on 18:00, 6 August 2023 they reverted the reversion. This has now been reverted, making this post in case they continue. Sufferingbanana ( talk) 18:45, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 August 2023 and 8 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Allicyn.h ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Ashleeyy ( talk) 10:50, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Reform Judaism article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2 |
This
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This page is not a forum for general discussion about Reform Judaism. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Reform Judaism at the Reference desk. |
This article contains a translation of יהדות רפורמית from he.wikipedia. |
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rebekah3152, KyleCee17.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 07:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 07:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 07:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gisellen.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 07:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2020 and 16 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Alexa114258.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 07:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article seems to be stuck about half-way between doing disambiguation and explaining the history of the reform movement and its terminology. This isn't helpful. The problem seems to be that there are at least three different meanings of the term "Reform Judaism", all of them closely related
now, strictly based on the content of the various linked articles, "Reform Judaism" (UK) corresponds to "Conservative Judaism" (US), and "Reform Judaism" (US) corresponds to "Liberal Judaism" (UK). This split in terminology developed in the early 20th century. In the 1920s, the problem was addressed by introducing the new term " Progressive Judaism" meant to include all of "Reform" (both meanings), "Liberal", "Conservative" and "Reconstructionist" branches, i.e. anything connected to the "reform movement" as opposed to Orthodox Judaism.
Keeping his story scattered over half a dozen pages isn't helpful to the uninitiated reader. I see two possibilities, either merge this entire page into Progressive Judaism and compile a section dedicated to coherently explaining terminology there, or else reduce this page to a simple disambiguation page, as follows, "Reform Judaism" may refer to:
-- dab (𒁳) 11:13, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Since the previous was unsigned, I'm not entirely sure whom I am responding to here.
All of this is a tempest in a teapot, if you ask me (which you haven't).
For the most part, I think that
AddMore der Zweite has been handling this situation fairly responsibly, and I can certainly assume good faith on that user's part. I can appreciate @
Debresser's concerns, though. All of this is happening about ten months after AddMore posted a query at
WT:JUDAISM, so it's not so fresh in people's minds. And one certainly must err on the side of (editorial) conservatism in vastly overhauling an article as long and as longstanding as this one.
AddMore, I think you should probably post one more time at
WT:JUDAISM. While it's fine for most of the description to remain here at
Talk:Reform Judaism, you ought to provide a little bit more detail at
WT:JUDAISM so people know what the question is. (That didn't really happen the last time you posted there.) After that, I think I'll be ok with your approach to untangling the terminology issues, provided that the following subjects don't get lost in the sauce:
User:Dave314159, excuse for bothering you. That tone template, is the style overly flamboyant, or non-factual? I'll correct it at once. AddMore der Zweite ( talk) 16:06, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
I have noticed that in the History section and subsection Beginnings that there seems to be some editorializing and polarizing language. I propose changing language that presents bias, as has been proposed by previous editors for different sections of the article, and refocus the rambling tendency of this subsection. I will also provide more citations throughout the section to back up what the article is saying. I'd also like to alert other editors that there are some terms and names that are undefined and make comprehension of the article more difficult. If someone opposes to the proposed changes, please comment here or on my talk page. Rebekah3152 ( talk) 17:50, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- I would like to add on to what Rebekah3152 has said. The article is a little bit vague on the original intent of Reform Judaism in the late 18th and early to mid 19th century in western Europe: ignoring the omission of Haskalah, there is no mention of the basic core of either modernizing the Jewish religion within the scope of European rationalism, i.e. as the editors of 'Modern Judaism' have noted (Nicholas de Lange & Miri Freud-Kandel) "This movement [Reform Judaism] decried the insularity, Talmudic focus, and kabbalistic orientation of early modern Ashkenazic Judaism, and it urged a twofold reform: (1) broadening and reorienting the curriculum for purposes of internal Jewish cultural renewal; and (2) training Jews with new skills for purposes of reapprorchment and participation in the Gentile world. Modern Judaism: an Oxford Guide; from pg. 33 This seems like a reasonable adjustment in clarity in the article, unless anyone objects to this change (AddMore-III included)? KyleCee17 ( talk) 04:23, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
Hi! I am a college student and am assigned this article in my writing and composition class. I am working on expanding and adding some sections on the article on Reform Judaism. So far, I have added a subsection on Reform Judaism post World War II and how the war has affected Reform Judaism. I also added a subsection on feminism, and talk about how Reform Judaism and feminism go hand in hand. I also added a subsection on "Tikkun Olam", or social justice, because it is important in Judaism, but especially in Reform Judaism. Lastly, I added a section on Reform Judaism in Israel, and how it has both started and evolved there. There is nothing that I would delete. However, I would place the "History" section in the beginning of the article rather than the end. I believe the structure would be more comprehensive that way. Please let me know if you have any questions or advice! Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aasherian ( talk • contribs) 22:34, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
Hi, I am a college student, and I feel this article encapsulates very well what Reform Judaism is and the history of it. I would love to add a section expanding different movements within Reform Judaism. I feel adding a section to this article explaining Women of the Wall While this movement isn't strictly a Reform Jewish movement, the primal leaders, especially Anat Hoffman, as well as several other women, are central to the movement and are also Reform Jews. I feel this would be a nice generalized addition to this article. The values of Women of the Wall are unmistakably parallel to the values of Reform Judaism. Providing this information within this article will also give a real-world situation that shows controversy in light of Reform Judaism within all of Judaism as a whole. I would explain what the movement is when it was established but specifically provide information on how this movement for a lot of Orthodox Jews, interferes with the importance of tradition but for Reform Jews, forwards an agenda of equality and prosperity. My main reference will be a Journal Article entitled, "Feminists in the Temple Orthodoxy. The Struggle of the Women of the Wall to Change the Status Quo". It was written by Shofar which is an Interdisciplinary Journal of Jewish Studies. If anyone would like to provide feedback or constructive criticism, I would love to hear anything. Gisellen ( talk) 16:46, 16 November 2017 (UTC)Gisellen Gisellen ( talk) 16:46, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Reform Judaism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:27, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
My edit was taken out; among other things reviewer claimed that what was written was not substantiated by the reference; but I quote reference here directly: "Reform Jews accept the Torah as the foundation of Jewish life containing God’s ongoing revelation.." Ongoing-continuous have same meaning in this discussion. I believe reference is necessary as continuing revelation is a major difference from other branches of Judaism/ Mwinog2777 ( talk) 19:48, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
Regarding spontaneous minhag, the article continues "The advocates of this approach also stress that their responsa are of non-binding nature." What are "responsa"?-- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 03:16, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
@ (a)lizadoolittle: Why have you tagged this article as {{ copyvio}}? [1] The toolforge links in the template do not work ("source(s)" is not a valid URL) and the link to Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2022 May 31 lacks an entry for this article (which also means that it is somewhat unlikely that anyone is going to address the violation, seeing as June 7 has come and gone). Where specifically was text copied from? Should we re-list the article? -- N Y Kevin 06:35, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
Add a picture of a black female rabbi leading, to quickly illustrate what's it all about for those who don't bother reading. 24.225.138.50 ( talk) 14:40, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
@ חסיד צום רבי'ן made an edit on 21:29, 4 August 2023, adding statements calling Reform Judaism "not real Judaism" and "was created when people became too lazy to keep real Judaism but still wanted the benefit of being called 'Jewish'." Their edit was reverted, and on 18:00, 6 August 2023 they reverted the reversion. This has now been reverted, making this post in case they continue. Sufferingbanana ( talk) 18:45, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 August 2023 and 8 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Allicyn.h ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Ashleeyy ( talk) 10:50, 16 October 2023 (UTC)