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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 March 2020 and 12 June 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Dbece005. Peer reviewers:
Alexmkid3.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:01, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
I'm concerned some of the phrasing used by this article may be too close to that of this source. For example, compare "To make a convincing case for their new human, the study team will need genetic evidence" with "Genetic evidence is required to make a convincing case for a new species of human", or "Attempts to obtain DNA from the Red Deer Cave remains haven't been successful" with "Attempts to extract DNA from the Red Deer Cave remains have been unsuccessful". Nikkimaria ( talk) 21:10, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
As in "youngest known prehistoric population who do not resemble modern humans". The intent of that phrase is difficult to understand. Are they most recent? Did they die at a young age? It's just not clear as the lede should be. I see in the video that Curnoe is saying "young". I vote for "most recent" instead, if at all in the lede. Kortoso ( talk) 00:02, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
Richard D. Fuerle is not an acceptable source for this article. "The author is a retired patent attorney who lives on a small wildlife refuge on an island in upstate of New York. A perpetual student, he has degrees in math (BS), law (JD), economics (MA), physics (BA), and chemistry (BA)." http://menghusblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/richard-d-fuerle-erectus-walks-amongst-us.pdf Kortoso ( talk) 23:39, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
Curnoe refers to a similar find from Iwo Eleru in Nigeria dating from about 16,000 - 11,700 years ago. [1] John Hawks mentions another similar find from Salkhit, Mongolia, dating from the late Pleistocene, both with surprisingly archaic features. [2] Kortoso ( talk) 19:20, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: PMC format (
link) CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0143332
Maludong=Red Deer Cave Kortoso ( talk) 17:34, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: Check |pmc=
value (
help)CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
It's mysterious: [1] They did not radio-carbon date any of the bones themselves, only the sediment that was deposited in the cranial cavity, presumably long as fossilization:
The flowstone in the cave was also dated, but that only provides the most recent possible date for any activity in the cave.
This may be a similar dating problem to that which we see with the Homo floriensis find.
Curnoe says that his bones were "directly dated" but the proof has yet to be found. [2]
But his new study, "Possible Signatures of Hominin Hybridization from the Early Holocene of Southwest China" [3] doesn't offer any clues about "direct dating" (which we assume means radiocarbon dating of the actual bones). And its not clear whether he's referring to Longlin or Maludong as being directly dated to 10,500 years old (and usually this is presented as a possible range rather than a hard date).
Kortoso ( talk) 22:18, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
Curnoe, D. et al. Human Remains from the Pleistocene-Holocene Transition of Southwest China Suggest a Complex Evolutionary History for East Asians Published: March 14, 2012 http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0031918
Ji, X., Wu, X. J., Wu, Y. & Liu, W. The temporal bony labyrinthine morphology of Homo Longlin 1 from the Pleistocene-Holocene transition of South China. Chinese Sci. Bull. 59, 3517–3525 10.1360/N972014-00653 (2014).
Curnoe, D. et al. Possible Signatures of Hominin Hybridization from the Early Holocene of Southwest China. Sci. Rep. 5, 12408; doi: 10.1038/srep12408 (2015).
Curnoe, D. et al. A Hominin Femur with Archaic Affinities from the Late Pleistocene of Southwest China Published: December 17, 2015 http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0143332
Here's his page; https://walkingontwofeet.net/ Kortoso ( talk) 19:15, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
Based on that, at some point, I think this article will need to split into Longlin and Maludong sections. Kortoso ( talk) 16:36, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
https://curnoe.com/2015/12/20/bone-suggests-red-deer-cave-people-a-mysterious-species-of-human/ Inter alias:
References
{{
cite journal}}
: Check |pmc=
value (
help)CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
I was reverted without explanation when removing the taxobox. A second editor has removed the same. I hope that is the end of it. cygnis insignis 06:09, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Genomic DNA results on the specimen have now been published: poor recovery, but what they got showed the specimen to be modern human with low levels of Neanderthal and Denisovan admixture similar to what is seen in modern Asians. Notably, it is related to the East Asian (non-Siberian) component of the ancestry of Native Americans. This is going to require significant changes in focus regarding identity/classification - addition of the new results and toning down the emphasis currently given the other alternatives, and I am not up to that task. Original article; Secondary summary. Agricolae ( talk) 21:10, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
![]() | A fact from Red Deer Cave people appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 17 March 2012 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 March 2020 and 12 June 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Dbece005. Peer reviewers:
Alexmkid3.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:01, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
I'm concerned some of the phrasing used by this article may be too close to that of this source. For example, compare "To make a convincing case for their new human, the study team will need genetic evidence" with "Genetic evidence is required to make a convincing case for a new species of human", or "Attempts to obtain DNA from the Red Deer Cave remains haven't been successful" with "Attempts to extract DNA from the Red Deer Cave remains have been unsuccessful". Nikkimaria ( talk) 21:10, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
As in "youngest known prehistoric population who do not resemble modern humans". The intent of that phrase is difficult to understand. Are they most recent? Did they die at a young age? It's just not clear as the lede should be. I see in the video that Curnoe is saying "young". I vote for "most recent" instead, if at all in the lede. Kortoso ( talk) 00:02, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
Richard D. Fuerle is not an acceptable source for this article. "The author is a retired patent attorney who lives on a small wildlife refuge on an island in upstate of New York. A perpetual student, he has degrees in math (BS), law (JD), economics (MA), physics (BA), and chemistry (BA)." http://menghusblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/richard-d-fuerle-erectus-walks-amongst-us.pdf Kortoso ( talk) 23:39, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
Curnoe refers to a similar find from Iwo Eleru in Nigeria dating from about 16,000 - 11,700 years ago. [1] John Hawks mentions another similar find from Salkhit, Mongolia, dating from the late Pleistocene, both with surprisingly archaic features. [2] Kortoso ( talk) 19:20, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: PMC format (
link) CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0143332
Maludong=Red Deer Cave Kortoso ( talk) 17:34, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: Check |pmc=
value (
help)CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
It's mysterious: [1] They did not radio-carbon date any of the bones themselves, only the sediment that was deposited in the cranial cavity, presumably long as fossilization:
The flowstone in the cave was also dated, but that only provides the most recent possible date for any activity in the cave.
This may be a similar dating problem to that which we see with the Homo floriensis find.
Curnoe says that his bones were "directly dated" but the proof has yet to be found. [2]
But his new study, "Possible Signatures of Hominin Hybridization from the Early Holocene of Southwest China" [3] doesn't offer any clues about "direct dating" (which we assume means radiocarbon dating of the actual bones). And its not clear whether he's referring to Longlin or Maludong as being directly dated to 10,500 years old (and usually this is presented as a possible range rather than a hard date).
Kortoso ( talk) 22:18, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
Curnoe, D. et al. Human Remains from the Pleistocene-Holocene Transition of Southwest China Suggest a Complex Evolutionary History for East Asians Published: March 14, 2012 http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0031918
Ji, X., Wu, X. J., Wu, Y. & Liu, W. The temporal bony labyrinthine morphology of Homo Longlin 1 from the Pleistocene-Holocene transition of South China. Chinese Sci. Bull. 59, 3517–3525 10.1360/N972014-00653 (2014).
Curnoe, D. et al. Possible Signatures of Hominin Hybridization from the Early Holocene of Southwest China. Sci. Rep. 5, 12408; doi: 10.1038/srep12408 (2015).
Curnoe, D. et al. A Hominin Femur with Archaic Affinities from the Late Pleistocene of Southwest China Published: December 17, 2015 http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0143332
Here's his page; https://walkingontwofeet.net/ Kortoso ( talk) 19:15, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
Based on that, at some point, I think this article will need to split into Longlin and Maludong sections. Kortoso ( talk) 16:36, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
https://curnoe.com/2015/12/20/bone-suggests-red-deer-cave-people-a-mysterious-species-of-human/ Inter alias:
References
{{
cite journal}}
: Check |pmc=
value (
help)CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
I was reverted without explanation when removing the taxobox. A second editor has removed the same. I hope that is the end of it. cygnis insignis 06:09, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Genomic DNA results on the specimen have now been published: poor recovery, but what they got showed the specimen to be modern human with low levels of Neanderthal and Denisovan admixture similar to what is seen in modern Asians. Notably, it is related to the East Asian (non-Siberian) component of the ancestry of Native Americans. This is going to require significant changes in focus regarding identity/classification - addition of the new results and toning down the emphasis currently given the other alternatives, and I am not up to that task. Original article; Secondary summary. Agricolae ( talk) 21:10, 14 July 2022 (UTC)