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This reference page is in need of mention of the Various atheists and atheist institutions that are ALSO critical of the Rational Response Squad, in their methods of advocacy of Atheism and their dubious financial practices. I think the criticism from fellow atheist sites and organizations, should be fairly easy to find. -Anonymous
This article
was deleted in October 2006, but has been restored in January 2007, as the following has changed:
Largegoat ( talk) 16:15, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
I saw your interview with Richard Dawkins and when I saw the link on the atheism article, decided to create it. This article was deleted because it was seen as a blatant advertisement. It is possible that my writing is very bad and maybe my attempts to establish the notability made it look even worse; but one important reason for deletion was the misbehavior during the previous deletion process. Please let other people document your activities! If you don't respect the proper procedures we use, editors like me who are otherwise sympathetic, will also turn against you. -- Merzul 00:59, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Hanniballecturer 07:02, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Cleary the deletion was rash if their entry is already being restored. I would hope that this will be remembered in future decisions about this entry.
68.36.218.158 18:26, 26 February 2007 (UTC) You were banned from their site and have a personal grudge against the team. I think someone who's conceded that they 'despise' the group doesn't make for the best editor.
76.178.17.36 ( talk) 22:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC) Your opinion on his writing is moot and you've studiously avoided dealing with my actual point: whether someone banned from the site really ought to be writing 'unbiased' commentary. Please actually deal with my point or don't bother writing back. In addition, the decision to delete the previous entry was obviously rash, as proven by this new entry. Concede this.
I recently edited this article because I thought it needed expanding. This is actually my first entry to Wikipedia and im wondering why someone changed it back. All I added was an explanation of the challenge itself and a link to there myspace account. I would appreciate if anyone could explain why it was changed back. Equagesic 03:50, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
-- Infidelaholic 09:38, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good, just make sure blasphemy challenge redirects to rational response squad. i think your right that they should be combined. CrimsonSun99 17:34, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
I've only removed the portion expressing how many myspace friends the RRS has, as of yet, though I'm suggesting removing the entire portion. The article loses its concise nature when it dribbles on about stuff that really does not matter. - For instance, you cannot go to one of the many Beatles articles on wiki and find, "The Beatles have 290,000 myspace friends!" - Completely irrelevant. Not to mention (this isn't my argument, but more a joke for those of us intelligent enough to laugh) that the RRS has "activists" which are adolescents whose main task, given by the RRS in telling him/her she is fighting for atheism, is to send as many friend requests to as many people as can be done. This was what I meant by a forewarning, members of the RRS are this incompetent, and nearly every one of *actually believes* that having a high myspace friend count declares them important. GravityExNihilo 23:33, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
You know I find it odd that a person who thinks RRS is incompetent is editing their wiki pages. Voiderest 09:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I'll have to agree with Voiderest, if I was white and hated black people and was the person moderating the "Black History" or other type page I don't think I would be very un-biased myself... Which is why I don't think that you should be even involved with edits here CrimsonSun99 11:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Grav I wasn't a big poster on the forums when you were on it. I am a big part of it now, but I was not then. What makes you think I was, "one of the last few people" to think you were something for that suggestion? Now I don't know why you think your argument would be deleted when we keep topics like "RRS is a cult." Plus, when I asked you for your argument during that one on stickam you would not give it to me. You editing this topic is like a young earth creationalist editing a page on evolution. I am not against you being in the discussion or giving input on a section of criticism, but that is different from the main article.
I applaud you for removing the claims of fundamentalism, but because of your history with the group I am honestly wonder what your motivations are.-- Voiderest 05:41, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't trying to attack you, but if in fact you used personal attack in your first post. The point of the analogy was that you are against the RRS and editing the wiki, you cannot blame me for questioning your involvement. BTW I don't know your myspace(s) so don't act like it I choose to have some argument here. However from the stand point of you thinking RRS would try to make themselves look good in a wiki I can see why you would want to watch it. Voiderest 06:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
That's the first time that has happened. I was just about to fix the passage calling them "fundamentalist atheists," but when I hit the edit button, it was already fixed. Thanks, to whoever did that.
Jesin 21:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Two completely different things, doing this would be like merging youtube bloggers with blogger bloggers (sorry, I mean the google blogger by the latter). As such, I completely oppose it. GravityExNihilo 03:10, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I am quickly beginning to cringe each time somebody comes on to wikipedia to use it as a forum to complain about Nick Gisburne's situation. Does this have anything to do with the RRS, or is this guy just happening to be a fan of the RRS in which something happened to- because then it's not justified as being in here. We might as well say, "Johnny wrote a book that was banned from schools, and he likes the RRS." The section seems entirely non-notable, and ever since the deletion of YouTube Atheists, one has to wonder if this article will pick up those -not quite so good- editors. GravityExNihilo 15:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Right now this seems to be basically about the Blasphemy Challenge and while it is what got the group noticed it isn't all the group is. I suggest there be a bit more about the founding in the intro and then adding of other sections and have those sections pretty well defined. Like in 'the section', Blasphemy Challenge, there is something on the YouTube suspension. From what I have learned it, most likely, is not related to the Blasphemy Challenge at all. I think the best way to come up with sections is look at the events, people, or criticisms.-- Voiderest 09:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Void's Randomish List
I.People – Come up with notable “Friends” or members
1.The Co-Founders
2.The “Core Members”
3.Some High Level Mods “Thinktank” (Maybe)
4.“Honorary Team” (Maybe)
II.Events
1.War On Christmas/Easter (was mainly something by Brain Flemming, but could be considered a part of RRS)
2.Blasphemy Challenge
3.Atheist Blood Drive (more of something to come)
III.Criticisms – I was thinking it be more of a list with a possible responses
1.List of
2.Responses
3.The Critics (Maybe) For this to be in there something should have to happen. Meaning one or two people doesn't make a whole list, but maybe a quick run down of basic “types” or groups.
IV.Other Ideas
1.Orgs Linked To
2.Rumors? (probably not)
3.Community?
4.Mission/Goal?
5.Furture?
"However, a minority of videos by users participating in the challenge have been deleted from YouTube for claimed copyright violations"
This doesn't really have anything to do with the RRS or Blasphemy Challenge. Lots of people have had videos deleted by YT for copyright violations. The above statment would imply to those unfamiliar with YT that it is only atheists, and particularly ones involved in the Blasphemy Challenge, that are having videos deleted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.95.168.30 ( talk) 10:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC).
I recently entered the new topic of "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in Evangelicalism." I thought this would give some theological clearity on how the "unpardonable sin" text is viewed in most evangelical and reformed evangelical churches. I've tried to cite my work under the refrences section. I believe this is a fair addition to this arcticle. I am very new to editing in Wikipedia so if I have made any mistakes, please notify me and I will try to correct them. Thank you. AbelRedemption 05:32, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I removed this entry. It's an argument against the relevance of the Blasphemy Challenge. If there is a significant voice of argument from this direction, that should be said under the Responses from Christian Groups section. I don't think there's any reason to have theology on the page. 68.18.213.23 10:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC) chuko
There's something strange about the formatting on this page. Why is the last section underneath the references? Is there someone with a bit more experience who could pretty is up? 68.18.213.23 10:08, 9 May 2007 (UTC)chuko
The first sentence of the article needs to be rewritten, because it fails to be neutral, in that it implies that everything that this organization fights is irrational, despite the fact that this is simply their opinion. Maybe put their mission statement in quotes? TheyCallMeGeorge 11:48, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Much better, thank you. TheyCallMeGeorge 16:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Stating the RSS's point of view as if it were absolute undisputed fact is in the clearest violation of Wikipedia:NPOV, the most important policy of this website. Giving the RSS's interperetation of the Bibile as the only interperetation or the only correct interperetation is both unfactual and POV. Some Christians have stated their disagreement with the RSS's exegesis. The revisions of my edits to this article severely compromise the neutrality of the text. 207.81.155.153 23:07, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I just reverted the edit which removed the words "what they consider" from the opening line "group of atheists who have taken on the mission of confronting what they consider irrational claims, most notably those made by Christianity." Whether something is irrational, even by definition, is an opinion. Not a fact. You can cite the definition of the word, but when you do that, you may agree that a claim falls under it, but your opponent may not. That is the essence of the conflict between the RRS and their opponents. They consider given claims to be thus, but obviously, their opponents, like The Way of the Master, do not. While I am an atheist myself, and have a registered account with the RRS (those are my photos from the May 5 debate in the article), whether I agree that TWOTM's claims are irrational (which they clearly are) is beside the point. Whenever an article touches upon a viewpoint conflict in which its subject or subjects are involved, the article itself cannot take a position on that conflict, even as a question of fact. To take another example, how about the Flat Earth Society? That their position on the shape of the earth is clearly wrong is beside the point. An article about them cannot use the word "wrong", because WP articles cannot take any ultimate position on the truth or falsity of the claims of its subjects. It is for this reason that the Flat Earth Society article never says that that group is "wrong". It only states what their position is, and what the position of their opponents is. That's why an encyclopedia is a reference source. It only refers to what others say. It does not take a position on it itself, even if by all reasoning one side is clearly right and the other wrong. Nightscream 05:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
I've removed this line The Rational Response Squad website features these videos, as well as requests for donations, and sells atheism-related merchandise three times but it has been returned again. The reasons I have removed it is because it is non-notable, and can be considered an advertisement for the website. Firstly website features these videos is hardly notable in itself, as websites always include some content. Secondly requests for donations, and sells atheism-related merchandise is again not notable, many organisations request donations and sell material related to their cause on their website. Put together it reads like a (polite) advertisment, ie "come to our website, view our videos, make a donation, and buy stuff!" Sorry but the line is definately not encyclopedic. -- Michael Johnson 05:39, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
I personally don't have that strong an opinion in the passage's inclusion or deletion either way, but I do not see it as "advertisement". That's just me. Nightscream 18:06, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Irrationality is not an opinion. A decision based on anything other than ration is irrational. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.193.100.103 ( talk • contribs) 21:45, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
I have a problem with this article saying that the blasphemy challenge was simply used to promote Atheism, because it wasn't. It was meant to get people that already were Atheists to come out and claim themselves as Atheists. Vastly different from promoting Atheism as it did not tell people to convert to Atheism or that religion is bad, etc! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.72.107 ( talk) 02:01, August 30, 2007 (UTC)
Removed unnecessary explanation of evangelical theology. Completely irrelevant and unnecessary. Those interested in studying theology can study it elsewhere. 68.42.26.138 11:47, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
"according to RRS' interpretation of the bible, this is an unforgivable sin": Erm, it says it explicitly. Mark 3:29 "but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin". Couldn't really be clearer than that could it? 86.139.183.249 23:09, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I did a minor clean up of the article. I removed many points given UNDUE weight. -- Statsone 14:15, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
This was discussed and a consensus was reached [1] and was not noteabe at the time. RucasHost was part of the discussion. It does not need to be in this article and does not need to be discussed again. -- Statsone 20:28, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
This reference page is in need of mention of the Various atheists and atheist institutions that are ALSO critical of the Rational Response Squad, in their methods of advocacy of Atheism and their dubious financial practices. I think the criticism from fellow atheist sites and organizations, should be fairly easy to find. -Anonymous
Hey im the guy who put that part up about the blasphemy challenge being hate speech. Mostly the stuff at the top. DO NOT DELETE that because u guys know damn well its true. U guys make this sound like the rational response squad is there to help and nurture the little athaist blah blah blah blah these guys on youtube who put up the videos are like mirrors of the nazis if they debated and asked honest questions thats one thing but being an obnoxious hateful ass is another. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.164.133 ( talk) 23:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Having been attacked myself on their blog for disagreeing with Kelly's assertion that religion is a mental disorder, and for criticizing the uncivil attitude displayed by Darth Josh, one of the RRS higher-ups, I recognize what you're describing, but I was unaware that there was anything said about them on Dawkins' site. Has Dawkins himself said anything about them? If so, do you have a link? If you do, something might be able to be added to this article. Nightscream ( talk) 05:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, if it's just forum posters, then that's not reliable as a source. And btw, in the passage where you mention them spreading a rumor about Dawkins having an affair, you left out Dawkins' name. I only gleaned who it was that was target of the rumor by clicking on the link. Thanks for all the info, though. Nightscream ( talk) 20:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
This reference page is in need of mention of the Various atheists and atheist institutions that are ALSO critical of the Rational Response Squad, in their methods of advocacy of Atheism and their dubious financial practices. I think the criticism from fellow atheist sites and organizations, should be fairly easy to find. -Anonymous
I'm not sure if it conforms to Wikipedia policy to use such anonymity aliases of real people. 82.181.37.203 ( talk) 14:31, 26 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.181.37.203 ( talk)
As I pointed out in my last edit, there are indeed objections with regard to WP's policies on Biographies of Living People, which requires special care with such articles, particularly with regard to personal information like dates of birth, places of residence, real names, etc. If the subjects do not want their real names used, I believe WP policy would indicate that they not be. Nightscream ( talk) 17:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Hey, Nightscream. Thanks for contacting me regarding the page. Perhaps I was over hasty in deleting some of the intro; it's seem a bit like an advertisement so I paired it down. As for you other concerns, they seem a little off. I gave two sources in connection with "Brian Sapient": the first authenticated the claim that he was a co-founder of the RSS and the second provided his real name. As for "Rook Hawkins", his real name is now common knowledge, but I wanted to be thorough since I expected objections like this so I sourced it nevertheless. I checked the link you posted regarding reliable sources and I couldn't find the words "social," "networking," "MySpace," or "Facebook" anywhere. All I found was a statement that "Self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves," which is exactly what the Facebook page I referenced was: a self-published source by the RSS on the RSS. Finally, given that Brian's real name is found in sources the article already was using, and that the RSS has itself publicized "Rook's" real name, I don't see how the preference for anonymity has any standing. I'm reverting the name info but I'll leave the "mission statement" this time. Eugeneacurry ( talk) 04:02, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
This article is about a small online community, doesn't seem to have any encyclopedic relevance, and seems to be primarily maintained by members of its own community. For these reasons it should be reconsidered for deletion. Nathan Orth ( talk) 06:30, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Would it be worth mentioning that the group seems to now be inactive and that two of the three core members are no longer apart of it? -- Mrheadhappyday ( talk) 01:01, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
I think it's unfortunate that this section was removed (without regard to Wikipedia policy). The deleted content cited Cybercast News Service and The Christian Post. The readers can be expected to realize that these are not the mainstream news . This can be explained in the text if that's a concern.
Having the Christian/conservative perspective can only be helpful. Don't you think that God gave us the brains to filter out the nonsense? ;-)
As a last point, I'll call out another (Christian) source that wasn't cited:
Fabrickator ( talk) 19:39, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic- where "reliable sources" is a link to WP:RS. That means sources that clearly pass RS for more than their own opinions. Do we have those? - David Gerard ( talk) 20:00, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
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This reference page is in need of mention of the Various atheists and atheist institutions that are ALSO critical of the Rational Response Squad, in their methods of advocacy of Atheism and their dubious financial practices. I think the criticism from fellow atheist sites and organizations, should be fairly easy to find. -Anonymous
This article
was deleted in October 2006, but has been restored in January 2007, as the following has changed:
Largegoat ( talk) 16:15, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
I saw your interview with Richard Dawkins and when I saw the link on the atheism article, decided to create it. This article was deleted because it was seen as a blatant advertisement. It is possible that my writing is very bad and maybe my attempts to establish the notability made it look even worse; but one important reason for deletion was the misbehavior during the previous deletion process. Please let other people document your activities! If you don't respect the proper procedures we use, editors like me who are otherwise sympathetic, will also turn against you. -- Merzul 00:59, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Hanniballecturer 07:02, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Cleary the deletion was rash if their entry is already being restored. I would hope that this will be remembered in future decisions about this entry.
68.36.218.158 18:26, 26 February 2007 (UTC) You were banned from their site and have a personal grudge against the team. I think someone who's conceded that they 'despise' the group doesn't make for the best editor.
76.178.17.36 ( talk) 22:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC) Your opinion on his writing is moot and you've studiously avoided dealing with my actual point: whether someone banned from the site really ought to be writing 'unbiased' commentary. Please actually deal with my point or don't bother writing back. In addition, the decision to delete the previous entry was obviously rash, as proven by this new entry. Concede this.
I recently edited this article because I thought it needed expanding. This is actually my first entry to Wikipedia and im wondering why someone changed it back. All I added was an explanation of the challenge itself and a link to there myspace account. I would appreciate if anyone could explain why it was changed back. Equagesic 03:50, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
-- Infidelaholic 09:38, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good, just make sure blasphemy challenge redirects to rational response squad. i think your right that they should be combined. CrimsonSun99 17:34, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
I've only removed the portion expressing how many myspace friends the RRS has, as of yet, though I'm suggesting removing the entire portion. The article loses its concise nature when it dribbles on about stuff that really does not matter. - For instance, you cannot go to one of the many Beatles articles on wiki and find, "The Beatles have 290,000 myspace friends!" - Completely irrelevant. Not to mention (this isn't my argument, but more a joke for those of us intelligent enough to laugh) that the RRS has "activists" which are adolescents whose main task, given by the RRS in telling him/her she is fighting for atheism, is to send as many friend requests to as many people as can be done. This was what I meant by a forewarning, members of the RRS are this incompetent, and nearly every one of *actually believes* that having a high myspace friend count declares them important. GravityExNihilo 23:33, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
You know I find it odd that a person who thinks RRS is incompetent is editing their wiki pages. Voiderest 09:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I'll have to agree with Voiderest, if I was white and hated black people and was the person moderating the "Black History" or other type page I don't think I would be very un-biased myself... Which is why I don't think that you should be even involved with edits here CrimsonSun99 11:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Grav I wasn't a big poster on the forums when you were on it. I am a big part of it now, but I was not then. What makes you think I was, "one of the last few people" to think you were something for that suggestion? Now I don't know why you think your argument would be deleted when we keep topics like "RRS is a cult." Plus, when I asked you for your argument during that one on stickam you would not give it to me. You editing this topic is like a young earth creationalist editing a page on evolution. I am not against you being in the discussion or giving input on a section of criticism, but that is different from the main article.
I applaud you for removing the claims of fundamentalism, but because of your history with the group I am honestly wonder what your motivations are.-- Voiderest 05:41, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't trying to attack you, but if in fact you used personal attack in your first post. The point of the analogy was that you are against the RRS and editing the wiki, you cannot blame me for questioning your involvement. BTW I don't know your myspace(s) so don't act like it I choose to have some argument here. However from the stand point of you thinking RRS would try to make themselves look good in a wiki I can see why you would want to watch it. Voiderest 06:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
That's the first time that has happened. I was just about to fix the passage calling them "fundamentalist atheists," but when I hit the edit button, it was already fixed. Thanks, to whoever did that.
Jesin 21:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Two completely different things, doing this would be like merging youtube bloggers with blogger bloggers (sorry, I mean the google blogger by the latter). As such, I completely oppose it. GravityExNihilo 03:10, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I am quickly beginning to cringe each time somebody comes on to wikipedia to use it as a forum to complain about Nick Gisburne's situation. Does this have anything to do with the RRS, or is this guy just happening to be a fan of the RRS in which something happened to- because then it's not justified as being in here. We might as well say, "Johnny wrote a book that was banned from schools, and he likes the RRS." The section seems entirely non-notable, and ever since the deletion of YouTube Atheists, one has to wonder if this article will pick up those -not quite so good- editors. GravityExNihilo 15:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Right now this seems to be basically about the Blasphemy Challenge and while it is what got the group noticed it isn't all the group is. I suggest there be a bit more about the founding in the intro and then adding of other sections and have those sections pretty well defined. Like in 'the section', Blasphemy Challenge, there is something on the YouTube suspension. From what I have learned it, most likely, is not related to the Blasphemy Challenge at all. I think the best way to come up with sections is look at the events, people, or criticisms.-- Voiderest 09:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Void's Randomish List
I.People – Come up with notable “Friends” or members
1.The Co-Founders
2.The “Core Members”
3.Some High Level Mods “Thinktank” (Maybe)
4.“Honorary Team” (Maybe)
II.Events
1.War On Christmas/Easter (was mainly something by Brain Flemming, but could be considered a part of RRS)
2.Blasphemy Challenge
3.Atheist Blood Drive (more of something to come)
III.Criticisms – I was thinking it be more of a list with a possible responses
1.List of
2.Responses
3.The Critics (Maybe) For this to be in there something should have to happen. Meaning one or two people doesn't make a whole list, but maybe a quick run down of basic “types” or groups.
IV.Other Ideas
1.Orgs Linked To
2.Rumors? (probably not)
3.Community?
4.Mission/Goal?
5.Furture?
"However, a minority of videos by users participating in the challenge have been deleted from YouTube for claimed copyright violations"
This doesn't really have anything to do with the RRS or Blasphemy Challenge. Lots of people have had videos deleted by YT for copyright violations. The above statment would imply to those unfamiliar with YT that it is only atheists, and particularly ones involved in the Blasphemy Challenge, that are having videos deleted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.95.168.30 ( talk) 10:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC).
I recently entered the new topic of "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in Evangelicalism." I thought this would give some theological clearity on how the "unpardonable sin" text is viewed in most evangelical and reformed evangelical churches. I've tried to cite my work under the refrences section. I believe this is a fair addition to this arcticle. I am very new to editing in Wikipedia so if I have made any mistakes, please notify me and I will try to correct them. Thank you. AbelRedemption 05:32, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I removed this entry. It's an argument against the relevance of the Blasphemy Challenge. If there is a significant voice of argument from this direction, that should be said under the Responses from Christian Groups section. I don't think there's any reason to have theology on the page. 68.18.213.23 10:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC) chuko
There's something strange about the formatting on this page. Why is the last section underneath the references? Is there someone with a bit more experience who could pretty is up? 68.18.213.23 10:08, 9 May 2007 (UTC)chuko
The first sentence of the article needs to be rewritten, because it fails to be neutral, in that it implies that everything that this organization fights is irrational, despite the fact that this is simply their opinion. Maybe put their mission statement in quotes? TheyCallMeGeorge 11:48, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Much better, thank you. TheyCallMeGeorge 16:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Stating the RSS's point of view as if it were absolute undisputed fact is in the clearest violation of Wikipedia:NPOV, the most important policy of this website. Giving the RSS's interperetation of the Bibile as the only interperetation or the only correct interperetation is both unfactual and POV. Some Christians have stated their disagreement with the RSS's exegesis. The revisions of my edits to this article severely compromise the neutrality of the text. 207.81.155.153 23:07, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I just reverted the edit which removed the words "what they consider" from the opening line "group of atheists who have taken on the mission of confronting what they consider irrational claims, most notably those made by Christianity." Whether something is irrational, even by definition, is an opinion. Not a fact. You can cite the definition of the word, but when you do that, you may agree that a claim falls under it, but your opponent may not. That is the essence of the conflict between the RRS and their opponents. They consider given claims to be thus, but obviously, their opponents, like The Way of the Master, do not. While I am an atheist myself, and have a registered account with the RRS (those are my photos from the May 5 debate in the article), whether I agree that TWOTM's claims are irrational (which they clearly are) is beside the point. Whenever an article touches upon a viewpoint conflict in which its subject or subjects are involved, the article itself cannot take a position on that conflict, even as a question of fact. To take another example, how about the Flat Earth Society? That their position on the shape of the earth is clearly wrong is beside the point. An article about them cannot use the word "wrong", because WP articles cannot take any ultimate position on the truth or falsity of the claims of its subjects. It is for this reason that the Flat Earth Society article never says that that group is "wrong". It only states what their position is, and what the position of their opponents is. That's why an encyclopedia is a reference source. It only refers to what others say. It does not take a position on it itself, even if by all reasoning one side is clearly right and the other wrong. Nightscream 05:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
I've removed this line The Rational Response Squad website features these videos, as well as requests for donations, and sells atheism-related merchandise three times but it has been returned again. The reasons I have removed it is because it is non-notable, and can be considered an advertisement for the website. Firstly website features these videos is hardly notable in itself, as websites always include some content. Secondly requests for donations, and sells atheism-related merchandise is again not notable, many organisations request donations and sell material related to their cause on their website. Put together it reads like a (polite) advertisment, ie "come to our website, view our videos, make a donation, and buy stuff!" Sorry but the line is definately not encyclopedic. -- Michael Johnson 05:39, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
I personally don't have that strong an opinion in the passage's inclusion or deletion either way, but I do not see it as "advertisement". That's just me. Nightscream 18:06, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Irrationality is not an opinion. A decision based on anything other than ration is irrational. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.193.100.103 ( talk • contribs) 21:45, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
I have a problem with this article saying that the blasphemy challenge was simply used to promote Atheism, because it wasn't. It was meant to get people that already were Atheists to come out and claim themselves as Atheists. Vastly different from promoting Atheism as it did not tell people to convert to Atheism or that religion is bad, etc! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.72.107 ( talk) 02:01, August 30, 2007 (UTC)
Removed unnecessary explanation of evangelical theology. Completely irrelevant and unnecessary. Those interested in studying theology can study it elsewhere. 68.42.26.138 11:47, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
"according to RRS' interpretation of the bible, this is an unforgivable sin": Erm, it says it explicitly. Mark 3:29 "but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin". Couldn't really be clearer than that could it? 86.139.183.249 23:09, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I did a minor clean up of the article. I removed many points given UNDUE weight. -- Statsone 14:15, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
This was discussed and a consensus was reached [1] and was not noteabe at the time. RucasHost was part of the discussion. It does not need to be in this article and does not need to be discussed again. -- Statsone 20:28, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
This reference page is in need of mention of the Various atheists and atheist institutions that are ALSO critical of the Rational Response Squad, in their methods of advocacy of Atheism and their dubious financial practices. I think the criticism from fellow atheist sites and organizations, should be fairly easy to find. -Anonymous
Hey im the guy who put that part up about the blasphemy challenge being hate speech. Mostly the stuff at the top. DO NOT DELETE that because u guys know damn well its true. U guys make this sound like the rational response squad is there to help and nurture the little athaist blah blah blah blah these guys on youtube who put up the videos are like mirrors of the nazis if they debated and asked honest questions thats one thing but being an obnoxious hateful ass is another. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.164.133 ( talk) 23:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Having been attacked myself on their blog for disagreeing with Kelly's assertion that religion is a mental disorder, and for criticizing the uncivil attitude displayed by Darth Josh, one of the RRS higher-ups, I recognize what you're describing, but I was unaware that there was anything said about them on Dawkins' site. Has Dawkins himself said anything about them? If so, do you have a link? If you do, something might be able to be added to this article. Nightscream ( talk) 05:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, if it's just forum posters, then that's not reliable as a source. And btw, in the passage where you mention them spreading a rumor about Dawkins having an affair, you left out Dawkins' name. I only gleaned who it was that was target of the rumor by clicking on the link. Thanks for all the info, though. Nightscream ( talk) 20:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
This reference page is in need of mention of the Various atheists and atheist institutions that are ALSO critical of the Rational Response Squad, in their methods of advocacy of Atheism and their dubious financial practices. I think the criticism from fellow atheist sites and organizations, should be fairly easy to find. -Anonymous
I'm not sure if it conforms to Wikipedia policy to use such anonymity aliases of real people. 82.181.37.203 ( talk) 14:31, 26 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.181.37.203 ( talk)
As I pointed out in my last edit, there are indeed objections with regard to WP's policies on Biographies of Living People, which requires special care with such articles, particularly with regard to personal information like dates of birth, places of residence, real names, etc. If the subjects do not want their real names used, I believe WP policy would indicate that they not be. Nightscream ( talk) 17:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Hey, Nightscream. Thanks for contacting me regarding the page. Perhaps I was over hasty in deleting some of the intro; it's seem a bit like an advertisement so I paired it down. As for you other concerns, they seem a little off. I gave two sources in connection with "Brian Sapient": the first authenticated the claim that he was a co-founder of the RSS and the second provided his real name. As for "Rook Hawkins", his real name is now common knowledge, but I wanted to be thorough since I expected objections like this so I sourced it nevertheless. I checked the link you posted regarding reliable sources and I couldn't find the words "social," "networking," "MySpace," or "Facebook" anywhere. All I found was a statement that "Self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves," which is exactly what the Facebook page I referenced was: a self-published source by the RSS on the RSS. Finally, given that Brian's real name is found in sources the article already was using, and that the RSS has itself publicized "Rook's" real name, I don't see how the preference for anonymity has any standing. I'm reverting the name info but I'll leave the "mission statement" this time. Eugeneacurry ( talk) 04:02, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
This article is about a small online community, doesn't seem to have any encyclopedic relevance, and seems to be primarily maintained by members of its own community. For these reasons it should be reconsidered for deletion. Nathan Orth ( talk) 06:30, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Would it be worth mentioning that the group seems to now be inactive and that two of the three core members are no longer apart of it? -- Mrheadhappyday ( talk) 01:01, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
I think it's unfortunate that this section was removed (without regard to Wikipedia policy). The deleted content cited Cybercast News Service and The Christian Post. The readers can be expected to realize that these are not the mainstream news . This can be explained in the text if that's a concern.
Having the Christian/conservative perspective can only be helpful. Don't you think that God gave us the brains to filter out the nonsense? ;-)
As a last point, I'll call out another (Christian) source that wasn't cited:
Fabrickator ( talk) 19:39, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic- where "reliable sources" is a link to WP:RS. That means sources that clearly pass RS for more than their own opinions. Do we have those? - David Gerard ( talk) 20:00, 5 September 2022 (UTC)