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Text and/or other creative content from Rasputitsa was copied or moved into Mud season. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
1. "Rasputitsa" mean exactly the same thing as "Mud Season".
2. Everything written here about Napoleonic wars and WWII is a urban legend. Russia had a system of paved roads since 18 century and by the time of WWII they obviously a system of railways.
-- Rheinguld 12:48, 29 september 2012 (UTC)
Not quite so! It is true that there were SOME paved roads in Russia since 18 century but there were very few of them, compared to Western Europe. By the time of WWII certainly there was a system of railways but again, it was not (and still is not) as extensive as in Western Europe. Even now there are a lot of unpaved minor roads in countryside, while in Western Europe even minor roads are usually paved.
But, speaking of warefare in Russia, it must be noted that the lack of proper roads was a disadvantage for Russian/Soviet troops as well, even when they were on the defencive (not to speak of offencives) - you cannot move supplies and reserves quickly without good roads! Olegwiki ( talk) 21:49, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
The distinction between rospuutto and kelirikko in Finnish seems unsupported by the standard Finnish dictionaries, and a google search produces no support either. The article in the Finnish Wikipedia makes this distinction, but, likewise, it quotes no sources (rather, it made this distinction until just now when I revised it). The words are in fact synonymous, with the only distinction being that rospuutto is dialectal and kelirikko standard Finnish.
I can imagine an argument that since rospuutto derives from the Russian word, it should only properly refer to land conditions, but such an argument would require support. Rospuutto may also have once been used only in some dialects, but it is a known word throughout Finland, and whether the word kelirikko has its origins in some regional dialect or is an academical coinage, it is now the standard word for seasonal weather-induced disruptions in communications, terrestrial as well as insular.
Also, the phenomenon occurs in the inland waters of Finland too, and is therefore not specific to the Archipelago.
-- Rallette 08:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I am beginning to think that the article is inherently wrong. The seasonal state of roadlessness is encountered virtually everywhere. We know that Russian and Finnish language have separate words for it. My Russian-foreign dictionaries tells me:
So I think the aricle must be heavily redone. You are welcome to do whatever you think necessary with finnish part (please don't forget references). I will try to deal with Russian and a bit international research. `' mikka 17:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
This article is totally stupid. Seasonaö problems with roads are not only in Finland and Russia but everywhere where there is frost in ground. -- SM ( talk) 06:46, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Weather is mostly (not always) a neutral factor in warfare. A counterexample to this claim is impassible roads that do slow down the advance. But winters? Yes it's cold, everybody is cold. The side that figures out that it needs to dress warmly, uses antifreezing lubricants and oil in tanks, wins, those who don't - loose. Those who bank on a fast campaign and do not prepare for the winter - loose. It does not take an Einstein to figure out that it will be cold in Russia in the winter and plan for it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.89.86.25 ( talk) 00:48, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Rasputitsa in Russian literally mean roadlessness not refer to quagmire .From russian ПУТЬ( put') - path , road , negative prefix РАС ( ras- ) and suffix -ИЦА ( -itsa ) РАСПУТИЦА —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.52.163.58 ( talk) 21:39, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
It might be interesting to add some text re the etymological relationship between Rasputitsa and Rasputin the name. 151.248.194.199 ( talk) 05:46, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
The lead suggests that the word is used outside Russia. Xx236 ( talk) 09:00, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
We are not in Russia where one person can decide what is going to happen. You cannot propose an article for deletion when there is only one person who suggested this and above all did not discuss it. More important is the rule that there are 29 articles on the same subject in different languages. This is a sufficient reason to stop any discussion. There are perhaps 50,000 rules on Wikipedia, but this one is easy to remember.
Taksen (
talk) 10:01, 9 September 2023 (UTC) I am not surprised a German favors the deletion of this article. Byebye
Taksen (
talk)
10:19, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
What they do secretly somewhere without mentioning this on the talk page is against the rules. Taksen ( talk) 10:45, 9 September 2023 (UTC) We do not need a privy council on Wikipedia. Taksen ( talk) 11:10, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
It should be the other way around: Rasputitsa has ten times more visitors a month than Mud season (ca 11,000 and 1,100). Every one can see on talk:Mud season Mzajac has a goal: to get rid off the Rasputitsa article to which he contributed very surprisingly since 2005! In April 2022 he suggested already a merge. What is the explanation of this unnecessary merge? Should we follow the Ukrainian Wikipedia where they use "bezdorizhzhia" ('roadlessness' or 'off-road conditions') instead of Rasputitsa? I don't trust this proposal to merge. Taksen ( talk) 03:40, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
It was Cyfal who added after a few hours a link to this discussion; not Mzajac. It cannot be true that if one starts a discussion he doesn't have to mention this on the specific talk page. It causes confusion certainly not clarity. Taksen ( talk) 02:42, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
There seems to be disagreement whether rasputitsa stops at the Ukrainian border. Additions and deletions have been made by @ Smurrayinchester, [1] @ Kyoukoku, [2] @ Altenmann, [3] @ Altenmann, [4] @ Iskandar323, [5] and some anon(s). Establishing the subject is key to the ongoing deletion discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rasputitsa.
Let’s decide what rasputitsa is before the edit warring escalates. — Michael Z. 17:27, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
"Military historians have always known that Rasputitsa -- sometimes called "General Mud" -- can thwart even the mightiest armies."before giving the attributions that accompany the famous Russian mud season in particular: that it thwarted both Napoleon and Hitler. If nothing else, the Russian mud season is notable for this extremely significiant role (as compared to other mud seasons) in European military history. Iskandar323 ( talk) 09:45, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
When and by whom will this template be removed? It seems there are not many participants in the discussion for deletion. Last year it took almost six weeks for someone to work up the courage to remove the template. The rules are unclear to me, but it seems that whoever posted the template should also remove it. I hope this will not take long because the call for deletion marred the article. The fact that Mzajac tried to bypass the contributors to this article by initiating a discussion, after a first failed attempt, without notice on the talk page bothers me. Taksen ( talk) 06:19, 13 September 2023 (UTC) I would not mind if he gets blocked for a couple of weeks, otherwise this could go on for weeks. He uses different alias to sign which make it difficult to find out who wrote what but is the same person. Taksen ( talk) 06:51, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion on 8 September 2023. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Text and/or other creative content from Rasputitsa was copied or moved into Mud season. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
1. "Rasputitsa" mean exactly the same thing as "Mud Season".
2. Everything written here about Napoleonic wars and WWII is a urban legend. Russia had a system of paved roads since 18 century and by the time of WWII they obviously a system of railways.
-- Rheinguld 12:48, 29 september 2012 (UTC)
Not quite so! It is true that there were SOME paved roads in Russia since 18 century but there were very few of them, compared to Western Europe. By the time of WWII certainly there was a system of railways but again, it was not (and still is not) as extensive as in Western Europe. Even now there are a lot of unpaved minor roads in countryside, while in Western Europe even minor roads are usually paved.
But, speaking of warefare in Russia, it must be noted that the lack of proper roads was a disadvantage for Russian/Soviet troops as well, even when they were on the defencive (not to speak of offencives) - you cannot move supplies and reserves quickly without good roads! Olegwiki ( talk) 21:49, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
The distinction between rospuutto and kelirikko in Finnish seems unsupported by the standard Finnish dictionaries, and a google search produces no support either. The article in the Finnish Wikipedia makes this distinction, but, likewise, it quotes no sources (rather, it made this distinction until just now when I revised it). The words are in fact synonymous, with the only distinction being that rospuutto is dialectal and kelirikko standard Finnish.
I can imagine an argument that since rospuutto derives from the Russian word, it should only properly refer to land conditions, but such an argument would require support. Rospuutto may also have once been used only in some dialects, but it is a known word throughout Finland, and whether the word kelirikko has its origins in some regional dialect or is an academical coinage, it is now the standard word for seasonal weather-induced disruptions in communications, terrestrial as well as insular.
Also, the phenomenon occurs in the inland waters of Finland too, and is therefore not specific to the Archipelago.
-- Rallette 08:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I am beginning to think that the article is inherently wrong. The seasonal state of roadlessness is encountered virtually everywhere. We know that Russian and Finnish language have separate words for it. My Russian-foreign dictionaries tells me:
So I think the aricle must be heavily redone. You are welcome to do whatever you think necessary with finnish part (please don't forget references). I will try to deal with Russian and a bit international research. `' mikka 17:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
This article is totally stupid. Seasonaö problems with roads are not only in Finland and Russia but everywhere where there is frost in ground. -- SM ( talk) 06:46, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Weather is mostly (not always) a neutral factor in warfare. A counterexample to this claim is impassible roads that do slow down the advance. But winters? Yes it's cold, everybody is cold. The side that figures out that it needs to dress warmly, uses antifreezing lubricants and oil in tanks, wins, those who don't - loose. Those who bank on a fast campaign and do not prepare for the winter - loose. It does not take an Einstein to figure out that it will be cold in Russia in the winter and plan for it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.89.86.25 ( talk) 00:48, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Rasputitsa in Russian literally mean roadlessness not refer to quagmire .From russian ПУТЬ( put') - path , road , negative prefix РАС ( ras- ) and suffix -ИЦА ( -itsa ) РАСПУТИЦА —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.52.163.58 ( talk) 21:39, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
It might be interesting to add some text re the etymological relationship between Rasputitsa and Rasputin the name. 151.248.194.199 ( talk) 05:46, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
The lead suggests that the word is used outside Russia. Xx236 ( talk) 09:00, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
We are not in Russia where one person can decide what is going to happen. You cannot propose an article for deletion when there is only one person who suggested this and above all did not discuss it. More important is the rule that there are 29 articles on the same subject in different languages. This is a sufficient reason to stop any discussion. There are perhaps 50,000 rules on Wikipedia, but this one is easy to remember.
Taksen (
talk) 10:01, 9 September 2023 (UTC) I am not surprised a German favors the deletion of this article. Byebye
Taksen (
talk)
10:19, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
What they do secretly somewhere without mentioning this on the talk page is against the rules. Taksen ( talk) 10:45, 9 September 2023 (UTC) We do not need a privy council on Wikipedia. Taksen ( talk) 11:10, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
It should be the other way around: Rasputitsa has ten times more visitors a month than Mud season (ca 11,000 and 1,100). Every one can see on talk:Mud season Mzajac has a goal: to get rid off the Rasputitsa article to which he contributed very surprisingly since 2005! In April 2022 he suggested already a merge. What is the explanation of this unnecessary merge? Should we follow the Ukrainian Wikipedia where they use "bezdorizhzhia" ('roadlessness' or 'off-road conditions') instead of Rasputitsa? I don't trust this proposal to merge. Taksen ( talk) 03:40, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
It was Cyfal who added after a few hours a link to this discussion; not Mzajac. It cannot be true that if one starts a discussion he doesn't have to mention this on the specific talk page. It causes confusion certainly not clarity. Taksen ( talk) 02:42, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
There seems to be disagreement whether rasputitsa stops at the Ukrainian border. Additions and deletions have been made by @ Smurrayinchester, [1] @ Kyoukoku, [2] @ Altenmann, [3] @ Altenmann, [4] @ Iskandar323, [5] and some anon(s). Establishing the subject is key to the ongoing deletion discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rasputitsa.
Let’s decide what rasputitsa is before the edit warring escalates. — Michael Z. 17:27, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
"Military historians have always known that Rasputitsa -- sometimes called "General Mud" -- can thwart even the mightiest armies."before giving the attributions that accompany the famous Russian mud season in particular: that it thwarted both Napoleon and Hitler. If nothing else, the Russian mud season is notable for this extremely significiant role (as compared to other mud seasons) in European military history. Iskandar323 ( talk) 09:45, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
When and by whom will this template be removed? It seems there are not many participants in the discussion for deletion. Last year it took almost six weeks for someone to work up the courage to remove the template. The rules are unclear to me, but it seems that whoever posted the template should also remove it. I hope this will not take long because the call for deletion marred the article. The fact that Mzajac tried to bypass the contributors to this article by initiating a discussion, after a first failed attempt, without notice on the talk page bothers me. Taksen ( talk) 06:19, 13 September 2023 (UTC) I would not mind if he gets blocked for a couple of weeks, otherwise this could go on for weeks. He uses different alias to sign which make it difficult to find out who wrote what but is the same person. Taksen ( talk) 06:51, 13 September 2023 (UTC)