This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Raphael Warnock article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 180 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | A fact from Raphael Warnock appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 24 March 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This page is about an active politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. Because of this, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() | This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the
Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:
|
I added a blurb to the 2022 election section of Warnock's page related to the recent reports of improper campaign financing. Solid sources including Politico and AJC have reported on this. That section was removed with WP:NOTNEWS and WP:UNDUE tags. I think I gave it due weight because 1) its placement was certainly not overly prominent 2) it didn't have much bulk/didn't dominate the section or page and 3) the issue is substantiated by reliable sources as mentioned above. I also don't think it fell under the category of frivolous or routine news coverage in violation of WP:NOTNEWS. I would concede that the second sentence could be cut, leaving just:
"On July 6, 2022, Politico reported that Warnock used campaign funds to cover legal expenses for an April 2021 lawsuit related to complaints dating back to 2005 when Warnock was a pastor." [1]
Thanks in advance for your thoughts. GrammarGuardian2021 ( talk) 18:39, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
References
Religion should not be in any platforms since church and state are supposed to be separate. If the candidate has a good moral standard and integrity no need to bring in ones belief. It shouldn't matter, because I have seen plenty of "good Christians" arrested and or cheat. I also know good outstanding citizens that are not religious. 2600:1005:B168:8031:2C24:C90F:9F14:C58A ( talk) 08:55, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
Regardless of how much confidence we may have in statistical forecasting, when Network N projects that X wins an election, our article should report "At [time] on [date], Network N projected that X would win", not flatly that X won. 12 hours from now all but a handful of counties will have reported 99%, and it will be mathematically impossible for the lead to change; that's the time to say that X won. E Eng 03:43, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
People are not stupid, we can do without the condescension. The sound spelling for Rapheal Warnock is wholly unwarranted as his name is quite easy to pronounce. Get rid of it. 130.156.22.249 ( talk) 16:09, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
Some have questioned the use of "The Reverend Doctor" as the subject's infobox honorific. The rationales given have been: "it is not a common thing among American politicians" and/or "generally omitted from articles." The easiest response is simply to point out that most American politicians are not also simultaneously, practicing clergy.
But second, in addition to the obvious, WP does use appropriate clergy/religious honorifics all the time. "The Right Reverend" Frank White (bishop), David Thomson (bishop); "The Most Reverend" Desmond Tutu, Terrence Prendergast. Sometimes, even two honorifics are appropriate, as in "The Right Reverend and Right Honourable" Rowan Williams or "The Most Reverend and Right Honourable" Stephen Cottrell. And where "The Reverend Doctor" is appropriate, WP uses it too Lauran Bethell, Martin Luther King Jr.. So the question is not/should not be how often or how common an honorific is, but whether it is factually accurate. Per the sources, the subject is and has been an ordained and practicing clergyman, with an earned doctoral degree, since the 1990s - long before his current political service.
Third, it is also appropriate, because like the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, not only is the subject the current senior pastor of Ebenezer Baptist Church; but in the article on that church, WP already lists several other prior pastors who were "Reverend Doctors" at Ebenezer Baptist Church.
Finally, all can agree this project utilizes reliable sources. Not only is the subject referred to as "Reverend Doctor" on the Ebenezer church's official website Ebenezer Baptist Church, but he is also referenced that way by many diverse and varied sources like NBC News, CBS News, the New York Times, Fox News, BET Network, NPR, Esquire, Huffington Post, Elle, Amandala, Auburn, Troy University, Duke University, Dillard University, University of Kentucky, Rutgers University University of Connecticut, Howard University, Harvard University, Spelman College, Union Theological Seminary, the Consulate General of Japan and many others. The subject also uses this honorific himself in a book he authored the foreward for: Amazon.
So the only objective questions should be: is this honorific factually accurate? Does it correctly reflect the subject? Like other clergy on this project, is it the correct form? Is it consistent with WP policies and guidelines? Are there significant, independent and reliable sources for it? The answer to all of these questions is "Yes." X4n6 ( talk) 00:21, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Raphael Warnock article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 180 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | A fact from Raphael Warnock appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 24 March 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This page is about an active politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. Because of this, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() | This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the
Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:
|
I added a blurb to the 2022 election section of Warnock's page related to the recent reports of improper campaign financing. Solid sources including Politico and AJC have reported on this. That section was removed with WP:NOTNEWS and WP:UNDUE tags. I think I gave it due weight because 1) its placement was certainly not overly prominent 2) it didn't have much bulk/didn't dominate the section or page and 3) the issue is substantiated by reliable sources as mentioned above. I also don't think it fell under the category of frivolous or routine news coverage in violation of WP:NOTNEWS. I would concede that the second sentence could be cut, leaving just:
"On July 6, 2022, Politico reported that Warnock used campaign funds to cover legal expenses for an April 2021 lawsuit related to complaints dating back to 2005 when Warnock was a pastor." [1]
Thanks in advance for your thoughts. GrammarGuardian2021 ( talk) 18:39, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
References
Religion should not be in any platforms since church and state are supposed to be separate. If the candidate has a good moral standard and integrity no need to bring in ones belief. It shouldn't matter, because I have seen plenty of "good Christians" arrested and or cheat. I also know good outstanding citizens that are not religious. 2600:1005:B168:8031:2C24:C90F:9F14:C58A ( talk) 08:55, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
Regardless of how much confidence we may have in statistical forecasting, when Network N projects that X wins an election, our article should report "At [time] on [date], Network N projected that X would win", not flatly that X won. 12 hours from now all but a handful of counties will have reported 99%, and it will be mathematically impossible for the lead to change; that's the time to say that X won. E Eng 03:43, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
People are not stupid, we can do without the condescension. The sound spelling for Rapheal Warnock is wholly unwarranted as his name is quite easy to pronounce. Get rid of it. 130.156.22.249 ( talk) 16:09, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
Some have questioned the use of "The Reverend Doctor" as the subject's infobox honorific. The rationales given have been: "it is not a common thing among American politicians" and/or "generally omitted from articles." The easiest response is simply to point out that most American politicians are not also simultaneously, practicing clergy.
But second, in addition to the obvious, WP does use appropriate clergy/religious honorifics all the time. "The Right Reverend" Frank White (bishop), David Thomson (bishop); "The Most Reverend" Desmond Tutu, Terrence Prendergast. Sometimes, even two honorifics are appropriate, as in "The Right Reverend and Right Honourable" Rowan Williams or "The Most Reverend and Right Honourable" Stephen Cottrell. And where "The Reverend Doctor" is appropriate, WP uses it too Lauran Bethell, Martin Luther King Jr.. So the question is not/should not be how often or how common an honorific is, but whether it is factually accurate. Per the sources, the subject is and has been an ordained and practicing clergyman, with an earned doctoral degree, since the 1990s - long before his current political service.
Third, it is also appropriate, because like the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, not only is the subject the current senior pastor of Ebenezer Baptist Church; but in the article on that church, WP already lists several other prior pastors who were "Reverend Doctors" at Ebenezer Baptist Church.
Finally, all can agree this project utilizes reliable sources. Not only is the subject referred to as "Reverend Doctor" on the Ebenezer church's official website Ebenezer Baptist Church, but he is also referenced that way by many diverse and varied sources like NBC News, CBS News, the New York Times, Fox News, BET Network, NPR, Esquire, Huffington Post, Elle, Amandala, Auburn, Troy University, Duke University, Dillard University, University of Kentucky, Rutgers University University of Connecticut, Howard University, Harvard University, Spelman College, Union Theological Seminary, the Consulate General of Japan and many others. The subject also uses this honorific himself in a book he authored the foreward for: Amazon.
So the only objective questions should be: is this honorific factually accurate? Does it correctly reflect the subject? Like other clergy on this project, is it the correct form? Is it consistent with WP policies and guidelines? Are there significant, independent and reliable sources for it? The answer to all of these questions is "Yes." X4n6 ( talk) 00:21, 22 January 2023 (UTC)