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King does a fair bit of commentary on Flagg's character, and what he was looking for when they cast the role for the TV miniseries on the Audio Commentary track for the DVD. Information on the appearance they were looking for, etc. Is it worth transcribing some of this to add to the film section here? Leafschik1967 20:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I have taken on Randall Flagg for review under the Good Article criteria, as nominated on the Good article candidates page by CyberGhostface. You'll be pleased to hear that the article meets none of the quick-fail criteria, so I will shortly be conducting an in-depth review and will post the results below.
Where an article is not an outright pass, but requires relatively minor additional work to be brought up to GA standard, I will normally place it on hold - meaning that editors have around a week to address any issues raised. As a precaution to prevent failure by default should this occur, if editors are likely to be unavailable over the next ten days or so, feel free to leave a message on my talk page so we can arrange a more convenient time for review. Apologies for the time it has taken to get to this article, but as usual the nominations page is backlogged ;) Regards, EyeSerene TALK 21:15, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I have now reviewed this article under the six Good article criteria, and have commented in detail on each criterion below:
1 Well written FAIL
1.1 Prose
Whilst this is generally good, flows well and is pleasant to read, there are one or two minor issues here:
1.2 Manual of Style
2 Factual accuracy FAIL
This is the main area that needs attention, and the main reason for the GA fail. Although the article is fairly well sourced in places, GA requirements are pretty strict with regard to sourcing. As a rule of thumb, we like to see a minimum of one cite per paragraph (preferably at the end to cover the content of that paragraph), and additional cites where needed (for example, for quotations, controversial statements etc). At present the article has significant gaps in its sourcing:
3 Coverage PASS
Randall Flagg is covered in appropriate depth, and the article stays focused throughout.
4 Neutrality PASS
The article is sufficiently neutral in its approach to the subject.
5 Stability PASS
The article history shows no signs of current major editing or recent edit-warring.
6 Images FAIL
As a result of the above concerns I do not believe this article can achieve Good Article status in the short term, and have reluctantly failed this assessment. If you believe that I have applied the criteria inappropriately, or have any other concerns about the conduct of this review, you can list Randall Flagg on the Good article review page for discussion by other GA reviewers. Alternatively you may wish to address the issues raised above and then renominate the article on the Good article candidates page. Please also feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Regards, EyeSerene TALK 19:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what happened just then - I've replaced many of the templates at the top of the article with the ArticleHistory template to tidy things up a bit, but I think our edits may have run into each other :P Apologies for that! EyeSerene TALK 19:48, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I removed this quote. I don't doubt its authenticity, but its unsourced and (IMO) not exactly that relevant to the section. If someone wants to add it back, then please properly source it. Thanks.-- CyberGhostface ( talk) 18:36, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Pretty thorough job here! The only things I see missing are some citations for the 4th and 7th paragraphs of the Dark Tower section. I'll pass it once those are fixed. Wrad ( talk) 18:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
A set of related sections, footnotes in one and bibliography in another, is a handy way of solving the repeat reference problem. I've created a short bibliographic section to show what I mean. Citation 1 can now be simplified to Furth, Robin (2006), p. 266. Adding items in alphabetical order to the bibliography, "King, Stephen (1991). The Stand: Complete and Uncut. Signet. ISBN 978-0451169532" could come next, and that big pile of notes related to this one book could then be simplified. This is just a suggestion, and you can easily revert my changes. Other ways exist to solve the problem, but I think this one would work. Finetooth ( talk) 03:23, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm moving on to a general LoCE copyedit, as requested, now that the citation question is settled. I see two vague things so far that I'd better ask about. In the lead, you write that "Flagg has appeared in a number of King's novels under different names..." It would be better to say exactly how many novels if you know the number or can figure it out. "A number" is a vague phrase that could mean any number. The second vague thing is found in "... pamphlets for the Ku Klux Klan, the Black Panthers, the Weather Underground and other such groups." It would be better to leave out "other such groups" or to explain what you mean by "other such groups". What do these three groups have in common? Finetooth ( talk) 00:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
The three links fate, plague and radical need a disambig (or get deleted). Randomblue ( talk) 16:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Can I just ask where Flagg was refered to in an acient name? The article says Nyarlathotep, but it's unclear whether he actually went by this name, or it's just an example of a mythical one. If so, should there be a dablink in the Nyarlathotep article? Cheers ArdClose ( talk) 18:58, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Ok, first thing I did was remove any instance where the article presented an interpretation as fact, and tried to support it with facts from the novel. This is original research. Whenever you draw conclusions on your own, no matter how obvious, it is original research. Unless it's something to do with mathematics, which there is no subjectivity to (or something similar that is pure objective facts) then it is original research. You cannot objectively say any character is Flagg just because they are described in a similar manner. Unless they specifically say he is Flagg then it doesn't count. Now, if someone outside of Wikipedia (in this case Furth) publishes something connecting the dots then that is perfectly fine. There was OR riddled within sections, usually not the entire section itself, so they've been removed. If you think I've removed something in haste, just let me know and we can figure out what I misinterpreted the OR.
Another issue was with redundancy. The "Names" and "Backstory" information is something best covered in his appearances section (most of which it is covered in that section). I took what was just fact reporting (i.e. In novel X, Flagg says Blah Blah Blah) and incorporated it into the appropriate sections and then nixed the rest of it as it was pretty much covered already. I removed the controversy around Flagg's death and placed it in an "Impact" section. My intention is for this section to be expanded upon with information about his impact in the real world. Now, this could be worked in somewhere else, but it felt better away from the general appearances. I left the reveiws of Sheridan in that section because they focus more on the actor and less on the character, so it seemed appropriate.
As was probably obvious when I started, I've trimmed (dramatically) the appearances section. This section should not chronicle his every movement within a book, it should give a general overview of his actions in those novels. I saw in the previous FAC that a big issue was with the high level of in-universe information, and I think I've curbed most of that criticism. I also removed the subheadings, as some of those novel appearances were a bit too small to warrant a whole subsection to themselves. Another thing, I've replaced duplicate sources with "ref name". What I noticed was that the same source would be used, but instead of counting twice (or more) it was being counted once each time. As a result, 58 sources have now been consolidated into 35 sources (though some were removed when I removed some unnecessary information that was more pertinent to the books than it was to the character).
I removed images awhile ago because without critical commentary, the images were failing WP:FU. I've given though about removing the Sheridan image, but there is discussion on King wanting a specific face for the TV adaptation, so it may be good to keep it. There isn't talk about the "demon" look of Flagg in the section so the Fangoria image needs to go. Though, I like it and I'm hoping that maybe we can find some information on it, or on the look of Flagg (maybe for the concept and creation section) that would allow us to simply move the image to a new location and not lose it entirely.
I also moved some information that was in the appearances section to a new section, "Characterization". This section is for information that pertains to Flagg's look, persona, etc (i.e. How he is characterized in the novels).
You'll notice citation needed tags around the article (mostly the upper half). These are areas that either need the book source (I have the books, so I can take care of these later) or need a secondary source to confirm the interpration. I didn't remove it outright because I thought it could be relevant and would be good to have if we had a source to support it.
I've stopped at the "In film" section, and I will continue when I get the time. If there are any questions or comments please let me know. I'm not here to destroy the article, I'm here to help it get through the FAC process. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 21:09, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
It is stated in The Drawing of the Three that at some point in his early life, Roland met two young men named Thomas and Dennis who were hunting for a demon called Flagg, making it the first use of the name Flagg in the series. Strangely enough, Roland doesn't make any connection between Randall and Walter o'Dim. Is this something that must be cited? MwNNrules ( talk) 10:44, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
If I knew exactly where to look, I'd try to get it cited, but I don't. However, I'd be happy to help with anything in my limits. I'll try gathering up the pertinent information for citing it before it is dubbed Original Research. MwNNrules ( talk) 01:09, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
To the topic post for this section: the reason Roland doesn't make the connection is because he didn't know that Flagg was an alternate persona of either Walter or Marten (who were still considered seperate characters at this point). Marten mentions when you meet him in the "throne room" of the Topeka castle that he calls himself Flagg now, which would indicate that Roland didn't know. Remember, Flagg "looks like other people," he probably looked like someone else at the time Roland first saw him.
As an aside, it is mentioned in DotT that Flagg turned someone into something else by looking at him. I believe it was a dog; I feel this should be added somewhere in the article. Ours18 ( talk) 03:08, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your input Ours18. I don't remember him turning a guy into a dog, but I'm not doubting you. Anyways at Bignole's behalf I will delete my contribution. In retrospect he's right. MwNNrules ( talk) 18:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes - Roland mentioned two brothers chasing someone or something called "Flagg" which turned an innocent man into a dog. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.32.192.33 ( talk) 20:45, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
While I recognize that the reference to the Dark Man in the novella doesn't directly reference Flagg, other speculative appearances are included in the article, despite there being no definitive confirmation that they refer to Flagg. What level of citation would be proper in order to support a mention of the reference, without making the claim that it definitely refers to Flagg? -- 96.243.12.146 ( talk) 21:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
All the nicknames (Dark Man, etc) should be able to be culled from The Stand. They are still tagged as 'citation needed.' Leafschik1967 ( talk) 23:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
First of all I must state that I haven't gone through everything on this talk page, but my summary overview of both the article in question and this page has convinced me that no one seems to consider the character of André Linoge as an alias of Randall Flagg. Ehm...I suppose I should point out that this is a spoiler alert for those who intend on watching Storm of the Century.
André Linoge was a strange and powerful being who came to the town of Little Tall in the TV mini-series The Storm of the Century. I suspect that part of the reason why few people have yet to acknowledge this antagonist is that the story in which he appears was written directly for the screen. Anyway, in my opinion, André Linoge resembles Randall Flagg in quite a few different ways: 1) It is pointed out in the movie, and the protagonist then quotes the Bible, that Linoge is in fact an anagram for Legion. 2) On at least 2 occasions in the film, Linoge shows his true form, an elderly man with a hooked nose and long white hair, wearing a black cloak. 3) Just like in The Stand, he acts as an opportunist who takes advantage of a situation (vicious storm in this case); he pushes the townsfolk, reveals the sin within them, torments them, manipulates some to murder or commit suicide and, finally, takes advantage of their weakness and lack of integrity to steal a child from amongst them.
Incidentally, this is one of the more important incidents in the story: in the end, Linoge's true purpose was to find an apprentice who he would raise to become like him. At the end of the film we come across Linoge with "Ralphie Anderson", the apprentice, who is now a tainted adolescent whose physiological features are practically demon-like. This is especially interesting when we consider that Flagg is subsequently killed by Mordred Deschaine. All this would mean that Flagg has a successor to replace him.
I believe that all we are lacking is an acknowledgement from the author himself that I am correct; I am not aware as to whether he has made public anything on the subject.
As a side-note, I thought it would be interesting to have a section of the Randall Flagg article dedicated to appearances that are doubted or simply not officially approved. I know that King likes to keep a certain amount of ambiguity to his work, so it makes sense that he wouldn't overtly confirm or refute such hypotheses. I am not really a King specialist; I have merely read the Dark Tower series and seen 7 of his works on the screen, so perhaps I am grossly mistaken. I hope not. TheZoolooMaster ( talk) 23:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Here is something I found about Andre linoge from the Complete Stphen King Universe. http://books.google.com/books?id=d75KXLXsqpIC&pg=PA233&lpg=PA233&dq=Andre+Linoge+stephen+king&source=bl&ots=JTSXAcVWw_&sig=KICuTKkZVqr09Y1uvLyxfl_sDbI&hl=en&ei=7LG_SoaACNHU8QaC9rStAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#v=onepage&q=Andre%20Linoge%20stephen%20king&f=false Not sure how to incorporate this into the article though. Starcomet ( talk) 18:44, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Ehm, I was a bit disconcerted to look-up this entry and not be able to find out the real name of the Dark Man as given to him in The Stand... On the final page of the uncut edition, his name is revealed to be Russell Faraday (pg. 1141), "And as he kissed Russell Faraday's feet, the dark man began to laugh." 98.221.236.202 ( talk) 09:35, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
In the sentence Flagg’s representation of has it's detractors. either the "of" is an extra word or there is a missing word (of evil?), but it's not clear which is the case. Also, the its is possessive and should not have an apostrophe (yeah, I could have fixed that one myself, but on the chance that the problematic sentence would get reworked, I didn't.) -- Michael Devore ( talk) 19:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
After looking at this article and the Dark Half article, I find it interesting that no one seems to have drawn a possible connection to George Stark being another incarnation of Flagg. I am certainly not a Stephen King expert, but after reading The Stand and The Dark Half, I couldn't help but notice similarities between the two characters. It has been quite some time since I have read the books, and I don't have them on hand so unfortunately I can't provide any accurate arguments, but the first thing I noticed that led me to consider the idea was the name.
Take the initials of George Stark (G.S.), invert them (S.G.), and subtract one letter from each and you get our favorite villian's initials R.F.
Hopefully someone more qualified than me can take this idea and bring forth some interesting new information on the character. -- Shaun Hamman ( talk) 05:22, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
A request for comments has been started that could affect the inclusion or exclusion of episode and character, as well as other fiction articles. Please visit the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction)#Final_adoption_as_a_guideline. Ikip ( talk) 11:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
One of the things I've been trying to do is to get Randall Flagg to Featured Status. Granted, I haven't been successful, but I think the amount of information here, in terms of both in-universe and real-world, makes it more of a possibility than any of the other Dark Tower articles at the moment. One of the things that's always been brought up is the amount of fair use images. There are some Wikipedians who wouldn't be happy unless *every* FU image was gone. So I narrowed it down to three fair use images. The main one (obviously) for identification, Jamey Sheridan as Flagg its notable in that its the only time he's been portrayed in film, and the one as Walter as that's arguably Flagg's biggest alter ego and his 'main' persona in the context of Flagg's canon. The picture of Stephen King is a free image, so there's no problem keeping that. If anyone has any questions/problems/suggestions/whatever, let me know.-- CyberGhostface ( talk) 22:51, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
It's original research to make up excuses to explain the discrepancies that the new origin made with the old one. As it is, the backstory in DT7 is different from the one given in Sorcerer--its not a case of 'expanding', its a case of outright changing. Thus, we explain the differences without any further commentary on our part.-- CyberGhostface ( talk) 15:32, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
"Flagg made several more appearances in King's epic series The Dark Tower as one of the main antagonists, in which he attempts to thwart protagonist Roland Deschain from reaching the Tower, the lynchpin of all existence, to claim it for himself and become a god."
Who's trying to become a god - Flagg, or Roland? It isn't clear from the way that sentence is worded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.103.61 ( talk) 12:43, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Its Flagg who wants to become god
In the first paragraph of "appearances" "in comic books", it states that the comic supports that Flagg was not one of the characters. If Flagg were either then he would have to be the both. The scene where in the Citgo supports this. At the beginning of the meeting with Latigo Marten changes appearance to Walter.
Please don't tell me I'm the only one who looks at that button he has and wonders if it's not a Watchmen reference. Darqlink51 ( talk) 21:28, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Whats your point? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.246.11 ( talk) 16:35, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Was 'Eyes of the Dragon' Flagg's 2nd or 3rd appearance? It says both at different points in this article -- Irrevenant [ talk ] 22:57, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Is Rudy Foggia from "The Jaunt" not considered a part of the Randall Flagg entity? "The Jaunt" is supposed to be somewhat connected to the whole Dark Tower universe according to the Connections page of the Official Dark Tower website. "The Jaunt" is one of the short stories from Skeleton Crew. In the story within the story, Rudy Foggia is a convicted serial killer on death row who is offered a full pardon if he goes through the jaunt conscious. Rudy Foggia follows the RF convention and somewhat fits the RF type from what little is told about him. Given that "The Jaunt" is also considered to be officially connected to the Dark Tower, might Rudy Foggia--especially given what he experiences--be an incarnation of Randall Flagg? Oh2d ( talk) 08:41, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
A cleanup page has been created for WP:FILMS' spotlight articles. One element that is being checked in ensuring the quality of the articles is the non-free images. Currently, one or more non-free images being used in this article are under discussion to determine if they should be removed from the article for not complying with non-free and fair use requirements. Please comment at the corresponding section within the image cleanup listing. Before contributing the discussion, please first read WP:FILMNFI concerning non-free images. Ideally the discussions pertaining to the spotlight articles will be concluded by the end of June, so please comment soon to ensure there is clear consensus. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 05:18, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
Could Leland Gaunt from Needful Things be a manifestation of Flagg? He is associated with the Lovecraftian deity Nyarlathotep who is stated to be Flagg in The Stand. -- 86.132.227.35 ( talk) 17:10, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
In the new show "Haven", during the opening credits, one of the newspapers mentions the revered Flagg. Here's a screencap: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/mikep3313/Random/vlcsnap-21810.png
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael Podgorski ( talk • contribs) 15:59, 17 July 2010 (UTC) Michael Podgorski ( talk) 16:06, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
At various points in the Stand, Flagg is identified as Beelzebub and other Devils, but what interests me is that he seems to have a kind of amnesia.
Does this help him commit evil? He seems to forget everything he has achieved before.-- MacRusgail ( talk) 10:33, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
King does a fair bit of commentary on Flagg's character, and what he was looking for when they cast the role for the TV miniseries on the Audio Commentary track for the DVD. Information on the appearance they were looking for, etc. Is it worth transcribing some of this to add to the film section here? Leafschik1967 20:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I have taken on Randall Flagg for review under the Good Article criteria, as nominated on the Good article candidates page by CyberGhostface. You'll be pleased to hear that the article meets none of the quick-fail criteria, so I will shortly be conducting an in-depth review and will post the results below.
Where an article is not an outright pass, but requires relatively minor additional work to be brought up to GA standard, I will normally place it on hold - meaning that editors have around a week to address any issues raised. As a precaution to prevent failure by default should this occur, if editors are likely to be unavailable over the next ten days or so, feel free to leave a message on my talk page so we can arrange a more convenient time for review. Apologies for the time it has taken to get to this article, but as usual the nominations page is backlogged ;) Regards, EyeSerene TALK 21:15, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I have now reviewed this article under the six Good article criteria, and have commented in detail on each criterion below:
1 Well written FAIL
1.1 Prose
Whilst this is generally good, flows well and is pleasant to read, there are one or two minor issues here:
1.2 Manual of Style
2 Factual accuracy FAIL
This is the main area that needs attention, and the main reason for the GA fail. Although the article is fairly well sourced in places, GA requirements are pretty strict with regard to sourcing. As a rule of thumb, we like to see a minimum of one cite per paragraph (preferably at the end to cover the content of that paragraph), and additional cites where needed (for example, for quotations, controversial statements etc). At present the article has significant gaps in its sourcing:
3 Coverage PASS
Randall Flagg is covered in appropriate depth, and the article stays focused throughout.
4 Neutrality PASS
The article is sufficiently neutral in its approach to the subject.
5 Stability PASS
The article history shows no signs of current major editing or recent edit-warring.
6 Images FAIL
As a result of the above concerns I do not believe this article can achieve Good Article status in the short term, and have reluctantly failed this assessment. If you believe that I have applied the criteria inappropriately, or have any other concerns about the conduct of this review, you can list Randall Flagg on the Good article review page for discussion by other GA reviewers. Alternatively you may wish to address the issues raised above and then renominate the article on the Good article candidates page. Please also feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Regards, EyeSerene TALK 19:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what happened just then - I've replaced many of the templates at the top of the article with the ArticleHistory template to tidy things up a bit, but I think our edits may have run into each other :P Apologies for that! EyeSerene TALK 19:48, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I removed this quote. I don't doubt its authenticity, but its unsourced and (IMO) not exactly that relevant to the section. If someone wants to add it back, then please properly source it. Thanks.-- CyberGhostface ( talk) 18:36, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Pretty thorough job here! The only things I see missing are some citations for the 4th and 7th paragraphs of the Dark Tower section. I'll pass it once those are fixed. Wrad ( talk) 18:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
A set of related sections, footnotes in one and bibliography in another, is a handy way of solving the repeat reference problem. I've created a short bibliographic section to show what I mean. Citation 1 can now be simplified to Furth, Robin (2006), p. 266. Adding items in alphabetical order to the bibliography, "King, Stephen (1991). The Stand: Complete and Uncut. Signet. ISBN 978-0451169532" could come next, and that big pile of notes related to this one book could then be simplified. This is just a suggestion, and you can easily revert my changes. Other ways exist to solve the problem, but I think this one would work. Finetooth ( talk) 03:23, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm moving on to a general LoCE copyedit, as requested, now that the citation question is settled. I see two vague things so far that I'd better ask about. In the lead, you write that "Flagg has appeared in a number of King's novels under different names..." It would be better to say exactly how many novels if you know the number or can figure it out. "A number" is a vague phrase that could mean any number. The second vague thing is found in "... pamphlets for the Ku Klux Klan, the Black Panthers, the Weather Underground and other such groups." It would be better to leave out "other such groups" or to explain what you mean by "other such groups". What do these three groups have in common? Finetooth ( talk) 00:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
The three links fate, plague and radical need a disambig (or get deleted). Randomblue ( talk) 16:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Can I just ask where Flagg was refered to in an acient name? The article says Nyarlathotep, but it's unclear whether he actually went by this name, or it's just an example of a mythical one. If so, should there be a dablink in the Nyarlathotep article? Cheers ArdClose ( talk) 18:58, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Ok, first thing I did was remove any instance where the article presented an interpretation as fact, and tried to support it with facts from the novel. This is original research. Whenever you draw conclusions on your own, no matter how obvious, it is original research. Unless it's something to do with mathematics, which there is no subjectivity to (or something similar that is pure objective facts) then it is original research. You cannot objectively say any character is Flagg just because they are described in a similar manner. Unless they specifically say he is Flagg then it doesn't count. Now, if someone outside of Wikipedia (in this case Furth) publishes something connecting the dots then that is perfectly fine. There was OR riddled within sections, usually not the entire section itself, so they've been removed. If you think I've removed something in haste, just let me know and we can figure out what I misinterpreted the OR.
Another issue was with redundancy. The "Names" and "Backstory" information is something best covered in his appearances section (most of which it is covered in that section). I took what was just fact reporting (i.e. In novel X, Flagg says Blah Blah Blah) and incorporated it into the appropriate sections and then nixed the rest of it as it was pretty much covered already. I removed the controversy around Flagg's death and placed it in an "Impact" section. My intention is for this section to be expanded upon with information about his impact in the real world. Now, this could be worked in somewhere else, but it felt better away from the general appearances. I left the reveiws of Sheridan in that section because they focus more on the actor and less on the character, so it seemed appropriate.
As was probably obvious when I started, I've trimmed (dramatically) the appearances section. This section should not chronicle his every movement within a book, it should give a general overview of his actions in those novels. I saw in the previous FAC that a big issue was with the high level of in-universe information, and I think I've curbed most of that criticism. I also removed the subheadings, as some of those novel appearances were a bit too small to warrant a whole subsection to themselves. Another thing, I've replaced duplicate sources with "ref name". What I noticed was that the same source would be used, but instead of counting twice (or more) it was being counted once each time. As a result, 58 sources have now been consolidated into 35 sources (though some were removed when I removed some unnecessary information that was more pertinent to the books than it was to the character).
I removed images awhile ago because without critical commentary, the images were failing WP:FU. I've given though about removing the Sheridan image, but there is discussion on King wanting a specific face for the TV adaptation, so it may be good to keep it. There isn't talk about the "demon" look of Flagg in the section so the Fangoria image needs to go. Though, I like it and I'm hoping that maybe we can find some information on it, or on the look of Flagg (maybe for the concept and creation section) that would allow us to simply move the image to a new location and not lose it entirely.
I also moved some information that was in the appearances section to a new section, "Characterization". This section is for information that pertains to Flagg's look, persona, etc (i.e. How he is characterized in the novels).
You'll notice citation needed tags around the article (mostly the upper half). These are areas that either need the book source (I have the books, so I can take care of these later) or need a secondary source to confirm the interpration. I didn't remove it outright because I thought it could be relevant and would be good to have if we had a source to support it.
I've stopped at the "In film" section, and I will continue when I get the time. If there are any questions or comments please let me know. I'm not here to destroy the article, I'm here to help it get through the FAC process. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 21:09, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
It is stated in The Drawing of the Three that at some point in his early life, Roland met two young men named Thomas and Dennis who were hunting for a demon called Flagg, making it the first use of the name Flagg in the series. Strangely enough, Roland doesn't make any connection between Randall and Walter o'Dim. Is this something that must be cited? MwNNrules ( talk) 10:44, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
If I knew exactly where to look, I'd try to get it cited, but I don't. However, I'd be happy to help with anything in my limits. I'll try gathering up the pertinent information for citing it before it is dubbed Original Research. MwNNrules ( talk) 01:09, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
To the topic post for this section: the reason Roland doesn't make the connection is because he didn't know that Flagg was an alternate persona of either Walter or Marten (who were still considered seperate characters at this point). Marten mentions when you meet him in the "throne room" of the Topeka castle that he calls himself Flagg now, which would indicate that Roland didn't know. Remember, Flagg "looks like other people," he probably looked like someone else at the time Roland first saw him.
As an aside, it is mentioned in DotT that Flagg turned someone into something else by looking at him. I believe it was a dog; I feel this should be added somewhere in the article. Ours18 ( talk) 03:08, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your input Ours18. I don't remember him turning a guy into a dog, but I'm not doubting you. Anyways at Bignole's behalf I will delete my contribution. In retrospect he's right. MwNNrules ( talk) 18:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes - Roland mentioned two brothers chasing someone or something called "Flagg" which turned an innocent man into a dog. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.32.192.33 ( talk) 20:45, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
While I recognize that the reference to the Dark Man in the novella doesn't directly reference Flagg, other speculative appearances are included in the article, despite there being no definitive confirmation that they refer to Flagg. What level of citation would be proper in order to support a mention of the reference, without making the claim that it definitely refers to Flagg? -- 96.243.12.146 ( talk) 21:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
All the nicknames (Dark Man, etc) should be able to be culled from The Stand. They are still tagged as 'citation needed.' Leafschik1967 ( talk) 23:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
First of all I must state that I haven't gone through everything on this talk page, but my summary overview of both the article in question and this page has convinced me that no one seems to consider the character of André Linoge as an alias of Randall Flagg. Ehm...I suppose I should point out that this is a spoiler alert for those who intend on watching Storm of the Century.
André Linoge was a strange and powerful being who came to the town of Little Tall in the TV mini-series The Storm of the Century. I suspect that part of the reason why few people have yet to acknowledge this antagonist is that the story in which he appears was written directly for the screen. Anyway, in my opinion, André Linoge resembles Randall Flagg in quite a few different ways: 1) It is pointed out in the movie, and the protagonist then quotes the Bible, that Linoge is in fact an anagram for Legion. 2) On at least 2 occasions in the film, Linoge shows his true form, an elderly man with a hooked nose and long white hair, wearing a black cloak. 3) Just like in The Stand, he acts as an opportunist who takes advantage of a situation (vicious storm in this case); he pushes the townsfolk, reveals the sin within them, torments them, manipulates some to murder or commit suicide and, finally, takes advantage of their weakness and lack of integrity to steal a child from amongst them.
Incidentally, this is one of the more important incidents in the story: in the end, Linoge's true purpose was to find an apprentice who he would raise to become like him. At the end of the film we come across Linoge with "Ralphie Anderson", the apprentice, who is now a tainted adolescent whose physiological features are practically demon-like. This is especially interesting when we consider that Flagg is subsequently killed by Mordred Deschaine. All this would mean that Flagg has a successor to replace him.
I believe that all we are lacking is an acknowledgement from the author himself that I am correct; I am not aware as to whether he has made public anything on the subject.
As a side-note, I thought it would be interesting to have a section of the Randall Flagg article dedicated to appearances that are doubted or simply not officially approved. I know that King likes to keep a certain amount of ambiguity to his work, so it makes sense that he wouldn't overtly confirm or refute such hypotheses. I am not really a King specialist; I have merely read the Dark Tower series and seen 7 of his works on the screen, so perhaps I am grossly mistaken. I hope not. TheZoolooMaster ( talk) 23:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Here is something I found about Andre linoge from the Complete Stphen King Universe. http://books.google.com/books?id=d75KXLXsqpIC&pg=PA233&lpg=PA233&dq=Andre+Linoge+stephen+king&source=bl&ots=JTSXAcVWw_&sig=KICuTKkZVqr09Y1uvLyxfl_sDbI&hl=en&ei=7LG_SoaACNHU8QaC9rStAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#v=onepage&q=Andre%20Linoge%20stephen%20king&f=false Not sure how to incorporate this into the article though. Starcomet ( talk) 18:44, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Ehm, I was a bit disconcerted to look-up this entry and not be able to find out the real name of the Dark Man as given to him in The Stand... On the final page of the uncut edition, his name is revealed to be Russell Faraday (pg. 1141), "And as he kissed Russell Faraday's feet, the dark man began to laugh." 98.221.236.202 ( talk) 09:35, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
In the sentence Flagg’s representation of has it's detractors. either the "of" is an extra word or there is a missing word (of evil?), but it's not clear which is the case. Also, the its is possessive and should not have an apostrophe (yeah, I could have fixed that one myself, but on the chance that the problematic sentence would get reworked, I didn't.) -- Michael Devore ( talk) 19:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
After looking at this article and the Dark Half article, I find it interesting that no one seems to have drawn a possible connection to George Stark being another incarnation of Flagg. I am certainly not a Stephen King expert, but after reading The Stand and The Dark Half, I couldn't help but notice similarities between the two characters. It has been quite some time since I have read the books, and I don't have them on hand so unfortunately I can't provide any accurate arguments, but the first thing I noticed that led me to consider the idea was the name.
Take the initials of George Stark (G.S.), invert them (S.G.), and subtract one letter from each and you get our favorite villian's initials R.F.
Hopefully someone more qualified than me can take this idea and bring forth some interesting new information on the character. -- Shaun Hamman ( talk) 05:22, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
A request for comments has been started that could affect the inclusion or exclusion of episode and character, as well as other fiction articles. Please visit the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction)#Final_adoption_as_a_guideline. Ikip ( talk) 11:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
One of the things I've been trying to do is to get Randall Flagg to Featured Status. Granted, I haven't been successful, but I think the amount of information here, in terms of both in-universe and real-world, makes it more of a possibility than any of the other Dark Tower articles at the moment. One of the things that's always been brought up is the amount of fair use images. There are some Wikipedians who wouldn't be happy unless *every* FU image was gone. So I narrowed it down to three fair use images. The main one (obviously) for identification, Jamey Sheridan as Flagg its notable in that its the only time he's been portrayed in film, and the one as Walter as that's arguably Flagg's biggest alter ego and his 'main' persona in the context of Flagg's canon. The picture of Stephen King is a free image, so there's no problem keeping that. If anyone has any questions/problems/suggestions/whatever, let me know.-- CyberGhostface ( talk) 22:51, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
It's original research to make up excuses to explain the discrepancies that the new origin made with the old one. As it is, the backstory in DT7 is different from the one given in Sorcerer--its not a case of 'expanding', its a case of outright changing. Thus, we explain the differences without any further commentary on our part.-- CyberGhostface ( talk) 15:32, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
"Flagg made several more appearances in King's epic series The Dark Tower as one of the main antagonists, in which he attempts to thwart protagonist Roland Deschain from reaching the Tower, the lynchpin of all existence, to claim it for himself and become a god."
Who's trying to become a god - Flagg, or Roland? It isn't clear from the way that sentence is worded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.103.61 ( talk) 12:43, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Its Flagg who wants to become god
In the first paragraph of "appearances" "in comic books", it states that the comic supports that Flagg was not one of the characters. If Flagg were either then he would have to be the both. The scene where in the Citgo supports this. At the beginning of the meeting with Latigo Marten changes appearance to Walter.
Please don't tell me I'm the only one who looks at that button he has and wonders if it's not a Watchmen reference. Darqlink51 ( talk) 21:28, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Whats your point? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.246.11 ( talk) 16:35, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Was 'Eyes of the Dragon' Flagg's 2nd or 3rd appearance? It says both at different points in this article -- Irrevenant [ talk ] 22:57, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Is Rudy Foggia from "The Jaunt" not considered a part of the Randall Flagg entity? "The Jaunt" is supposed to be somewhat connected to the whole Dark Tower universe according to the Connections page of the Official Dark Tower website. "The Jaunt" is one of the short stories from Skeleton Crew. In the story within the story, Rudy Foggia is a convicted serial killer on death row who is offered a full pardon if he goes through the jaunt conscious. Rudy Foggia follows the RF convention and somewhat fits the RF type from what little is told about him. Given that "The Jaunt" is also considered to be officially connected to the Dark Tower, might Rudy Foggia--especially given what he experiences--be an incarnation of Randall Flagg? Oh2d ( talk) 08:41, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
A cleanup page has been created for WP:FILMS' spotlight articles. One element that is being checked in ensuring the quality of the articles is the non-free images. Currently, one or more non-free images being used in this article are under discussion to determine if they should be removed from the article for not complying with non-free and fair use requirements. Please comment at the corresponding section within the image cleanup listing. Before contributing the discussion, please first read WP:FILMNFI concerning non-free images. Ideally the discussions pertaining to the spotlight articles will be concluded by the end of June, so please comment soon to ensure there is clear consensus. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 05:18, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
Could Leland Gaunt from Needful Things be a manifestation of Flagg? He is associated with the Lovecraftian deity Nyarlathotep who is stated to be Flagg in The Stand. -- 86.132.227.35 ( talk) 17:10, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
In the new show "Haven", during the opening credits, one of the newspapers mentions the revered Flagg. Here's a screencap: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/mikep3313/Random/vlcsnap-21810.png
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael Podgorski ( talk • contribs) 15:59, 17 July 2010 (UTC) Michael Podgorski ( talk) 16:06, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
At various points in the Stand, Flagg is identified as Beelzebub and other Devils, but what interests me is that he seems to have a kind of amnesia.
Does this help him commit evil? He seems to forget everything he has achieved before.-- MacRusgail ( talk) 10:33, 26 July 2010 (UTC)