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Radu is apparently now HRH Prince Radu of Romania, Prince of Hohenzollern-Veringen following the promulgation of the Fundamental Rules of the Royal Family of Romania. Whether King Michael can do this with it having a binding effect I don't know. My understanding is that he is bound by the last royal constitution and can't change the line of succession when there is not a shortage of dynasts (the Princely Family of Hohenzollern). Upon Michael's death, there might be two Romanian Royal Families, one headed by Princess Margarita and the other by The Prince of Hohenzollern. Charles 09:01, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
It seems to me that Romania is a Republic and all of these titles are nonsense. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 21:50, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Image:Cifrul ASR Principelui Radu.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 20:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I tried to move the original page to Radu, Prince of Hohenzollern-Veringen, but found that hard. also, accidentally I moved the page to Radu , Prince of Hohenzollern-Veringen. The main reason is the following: he is not stiled Duda anymore, just Radu, Prince of Hohenzollern-Veringen. All the other stiles of reference are malicious and rude (impolite). ES Vic ( talk) 19:06, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
How has he lost his original surname. Has it been replaced officially? If not, he is still Radu Duda. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 20:13, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
I find it hard to believe that this encyclopedia includes this person as a Royal Highness and a Prince of a monarchy that doesn't exist anymore by virtue of a document that has been approved by a former head of state, King Michael, of that country. Clearly that document has about as much validity in a legal and diplomatic sense as the document issued by me yesterday, declaring myself Emperor of my back garden, (I don't have a back garden anyway, but still.) King Michael lacks the authority to give titles to people. So does the person with the surname "Prince of Hohenzollern" who invented the "Veringen" title for mr. Duda. Not even the excuse of holding titles in pretence applies here. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:06, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
As of now I've made the relevant changes and a move to "Radu of Romania Duda" since the article explains that this is his legal name. Although I wonder what that might be in Romanian. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:44, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
It seems that "of Romania" is "al României" in Romanian. Therefore another adaptation and another move. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 18:18, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Still he's not a member of a former royal family he was born in. Radu al României Duda is his official name as a citizen of Romania and he had it officially changed into that. People may inheret titles that they hold in pretence, like the people you mention. And they are indeed generally named as such on Wikipedia. But new titles cannot be given to those not "born" with them, unless we're dealing with an existing monarchy. The move seems inappropriate to me. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:26, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me that this particular person, although married into a royal family, should be known by his official name, not by what he chooses to call himself. Remember that in this case the argument of holding titles in pretence doesn't add up. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:22, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
I've made the appropriate move which is a revert to a former situation. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 22:06, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: {{{1}}} Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 06:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
{{
movereq|Radu al României Duda}}
Prince Radu of Romania → Radu al României Duda This is the official name of the person involved. He is not a Prince of Romania or any other entity by any standard that can be accepted. — Relisted Ronhjones (Talk) 21:48, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:54, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Forgot to sign my vote, signing now Arkadiam ( talk) 09:49, 1 January 2010 (UTC)Arkadiam
More relevantly, regardless of one's position on the substantive issue, Wikipedia attempts to describe and point to clearly recognizable and useful articles, i.e. ones that come up naturally, and with titles that are 'second nature.' Radu al Romaniei Duda is second nature for nobody, whereas, even though they might not know the legal name, many people would have heard of Prince Radu of Romania. Therefore, this name should stand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucas.tiger ( talk • contribs) 18:59, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
The result ws no consensus to move. Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 06:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
(Sigh) I'll have another go. Please see Wikipedia:talk page guidelines#Behavior that is unacceptable: Do not use the talk page as a forum or soapbox for discussing the topic. Both sides in the above move discussion are infringing this guideline.
What would be helpful would be to quote someone notable who expressed an opinion as to whether or not "Prince" Radu is authorised to use the title, and under what circumstances and by what authority. Not your own opinions on the subject, but those of authorities. It's quite appropriate to include such material in the article, provided it doesn't infringe WP:BLP. And not just authorities that support one side or the other. What we want is an accurate, sourced description of the full range of notable opinions on the subject.
As well as WP:BLP please be aware that aspects of this may also be sub judice. Andrewa ( talk) 14:20, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
You ask who the authorities are. In my view there are no authorities. The monarchy of Romania doesn't exist anymore. However we (at least here on Wikipedia) still call the male line descendants of former royalty and their wives, Princes or Princesses. Former Kings are also still called by their titles. Legally all members of houses that ruled former monarchies are not Princes anymore, with some exceptions (Like the Princes of Greece who are also Princes of Denmark). That Wikipedia exdents that courtesy to male line members of former Royal families doesn't imply that Princesses can call their husbands a Prince. More importantly I don't believe that the religious notion of the divine right of Kings is applicable in a situation where the law is conscerned. Entitlement of this kind is not (as Nontrickyy would have it) a matter ruled by religion. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:48, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
A fount of honor that can bestow royal titles is not extant legaly in Romania at this time. Therefore I added the sentence "Since there is no authority in Romania anymore, that can legally bestow titles of royalty or nobility, Radu's title of "Prince of Romania" with the style of "Royal Highness" has no foundation in extant law. Since he was not born as a descendant of a former Royal Family, his claim to the title also has no relation to the habit of descendants of former reigning families of holding titles in pretence. Radu's legal name is "Radu al României Duda"". This is a factual statement, whatever one may think about the title of the article. It was reversed by Nontricky and I undid it. I believe it is an important statement to make about the title this person claims to be holding. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:09, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Radu Duda-s father was close to Ion Iliescu, former Romanian president, who instigated to violence in 1990 and order the murder of Ceausescu. It becomes more and more clear, after Iliescu said that "there is a plan for the socialism revival in the world" that for Romania this plan is to block anything that could link Romania to the Real roots, violently taken out in 1947 when the communists took over completely.
Radu Duda is not accepted by the Romanian people, while King Mihai I is a legend figure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Irinoiucristi ( talk • contribs) 08:58, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
I've removed the NPOV template, please use {{POV-section}} or better yet {{POV-statement}} for sentences, then detail issues here. This will help address them in a timely manner. - Roy Boy 23:19, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 23:58, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Prince Radu of Romania → Radu al României Duda – This issue was discussed in 2009, but I think it is worth giving it another look, for several reasons. It is not an isolated case, but raises some wider issues about titles, see Wikipedia Talk:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility)#Alleged princes. If we award this person the title of prince, it could be difficult to deny it to e.g. Paul-Philippe Hohenzollern. We do not use the title of prince or princess for members of e.g. the German and Austrian royal houses after these countries became republics. The 2 other Latin-alphabet Wikipedias where he has a biography, the Romanian and the French, both call him by the proposed new title, so this is what his own people call him. PatGallacher ( talk) 15:08, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved Mike Cline ( talk) 10:48, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
Prince Radu of Romania →
Radu Duda – I know that a previous move request for this person was discussed recently, but in the course of this discussion it seemed as if "Radu Duda" was the title most people supported. See some discussion at
Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility).
PatGallacher (
talk)
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Radu is apparently now HRH Prince Radu of Romania, Prince of Hohenzollern-Veringen following the promulgation of the Fundamental Rules of the Royal Family of Romania. Whether King Michael can do this with it having a binding effect I don't know. My understanding is that he is bound by the last royal constitution and can't change the line of succession when there is not a shortage of dynasts (the Princely Family of Hohenzollern). Upon Michael's death, there might be two Romanian Royal Families, one headed by Princess Margarita and the other by The Prince of Hohenzollern. Charles 09:01, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
It seems to me that Romania is a Republic and all of these titles are nonsense. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 21:50, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Image:Cifrul ASR Principelui Radu.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 20:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I tried to move the original page to Radu, Prince of Hohenzollern-Veringen, but found that hard. also, accidentally I moved the page to Radu , Prince of Hohenzollern-Veringen. The main reason is the following: he is not stiled Duda anymore, just Radu, Prince of Hohenzollern-Veringen. All the other stiles of reference are malicious and rude (impolite). ES Vic ( talk) 19:06, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
How has he lost his original surname. Has it been replaced officially? If not, he is still Radu Duda. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 20:13, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
I find it hard to believe that this encyclopedia includes this person as a Royal Highness and a Prince of a monarchy that doesn't exist anymore by virtue of a document that has been approved by a former head of state, King Michael, of that country. Clearly that document has about as much validity in a legal and diplomatic sense as the document issued by me yesterday, declaring myself Emperor of my back garden, (I don't have a back garden anyway, but still.) King Michael lacks the authority to give titles to people. So does the person with the surname "Prince of Hohenzollern" who invented the "Veringen" title for mr. Duda. Not even the excuse of holding titles in pretence applies here. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:06, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
As of now I've made the relevant changes and a move to "Radu of Romania Duda" since the article explains that this is his legal name. Although I wonder what that might be in Romanian. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:44, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
It seems that "of Romania" is "al României" in Romanian. Therefore another adaptation and another move. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 18:18, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Still he's not a member of a former royal family he was born in. Radu al României Duda is his official name as a citizen of Romania and he had it officially changed into that. People may inheret titles that they hold in pretence, like the people you mention. And they are indeed generally named as such on Wikipedia. But new titles cannot be given to those not "born" with them, unless we're dealing with an existing monarchy. The move seems inappropriate to me. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:26, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me that this particular person, although married into a royal family, should be known by his official name, not by what he chooses to call himself. Remember that in this case the argument of holding titles in pretence doesn't add up. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:22, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
I've made the appropriate move which is a revert to a former situation. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 22:06, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: {{{1}}} Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 06:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
{{
movereq|Radu al României Duda}}
Prince Radu of Romania → Radu al României Duda This is the official name of the person involved. He is not a Prince of Romania or any other entity by any standard that can be accepted. — Relisted Ronhjones (Talk) 21:48, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:54, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Forgot to sign my vote, signing now Arkadiam ( talk) 09:49, 1 January 2010 (UTC)Arkadiam
More relevantly, regardless of one's position on the substantive issue, Wikipedia attempts to describe and point to clearly recognizable and useful articles, i.e. ones that come up naturally, and with titles that are 'second nature.' Radu al Romaniei Duda is second nature for nobody, whereas, even though they might not know the legal name, many people would have heard of Prince Radu of Romania. Therefore, this name should stand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucas.tiger ( talk • contribs) 18:59, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
The result ws no consensus to move. Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 06:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
(Sigh) I'll have another go. Please see Wikipedia:talk page guidelines#Behavior that is unacceptable: Do not use the talk page as a forum or soapbox for discussing the topic. Both sides in the above move discussion are infringing this guideline.
What would be helpful would be to quote someone notable who expressed an opinion as to whether or not "Prince" Radu is authorised to use the title, and under what circumstances and by what authority. Not your own opinions on the subject, but those of authorities. It's quite appropriate to include such material in the article, provided it doesn't infringe WP:BLP. And not just authorities that support one side or the other. What we want is an accurate, sourced description of the full range of notable opinions on the subject.
As well as WP:BLP please be aware that aspects of this may also be sub judice. Andrewa ( talk) 14:20, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
You ask who the authorities are. In my view there are no authorities. The monarchy of Romania doesn't exist anymore. However we (at least here on Wikipedia) still call the male line descendants of former royalty and their wives, Princes or Princesses. Former Kings are also still called by their titles. Legally all members of houses that ruled former monarchies are not Princes anymore, with some exceptions (Like the Princes of Greece who are also Princes of Denmark). That Wikipedia exdents that courtesy to male line members of former Royal families doesn't imply that Princesses can call their husbands a Prince. More importantly I don't believe that the religious notion of the divine right of Kings is applicable in a situation where the law is conscerned. Entitlement of this kind is not (as Nontrickyy would have it) a matter ruled by religion. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:48, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
A fount of honor that can bestow royal titles is not extant legaly in Romania at this time. Therefore I added the sentence "Since there is no authority in Romania anymore, that can legally bestow titles of royalty or nobility, Radu's title of "Prince of Romania" with the style of "Royal Highness" has no foundation in extant law. Since he was not born as a descendant of a former Royal Family, his claim to the title also has no relation to the habit of descendants of former reigning families of holding titles in pretence. Radu's legal name is "Radu al României Duda"". This is a factual statement, whatever one may think about the title of the article. It was reversed by Nontricky and I undid it. I believe it is an important statement to make about the title this person claims to be holding. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:09, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Radu Duda-s father was close to Ion Iliescu, former Romanian president, who instigated to violence in 1990 and order the murder of Ceausescu. It becomes more and more clear, after Iliescu said that "there is a plan for the socialism revival in the world" that for Romania this plan is to block anything that could link Romania to the Real roots, violently taken out in 1947 when the communists took over completely.
Radu Duda is not accepted by the Romanian people, while King Mihai I is a legend figure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Irinoiucristi ( talk • contribs) 08:58, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
I've removed the NPOV template, please use {{POV-section}} or better yet {{POV-statement}} for sentences, then detail issues here. This will help address them in a timely manner. - Roy Boy 23:19, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 23:58, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Prince Radu of Romania → Radu al României Duda – This issue was discussed in 2009, but I think it is worth giving it another look, for several reasons. It is not an isolated case, but raises some wider issues about titles, see Wikipedia Talk:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility)#Alleged princes. If we award this person the title of prince, it could be difficult to deny it to e.g. Paul-Philippe Hohenzollern. We do not use the title of prince or princess for members of e.g. the German and Austrian royal houses after these countries became republics. The 2 other Latin-alphabet Wikipedias where he has a biography, the Romanian and the French, both call him by the proposed new title, so this is what his own people call him. PatGallacher ( talk) 15:08, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved Mike Cline ( talk) 10:48, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
Prince Radu of Romania →
Radu Duda – I know that a previous move request for this person was discussed recently, but in the course of this discussion it seemed as if "Radu Duda" was the title most people supported. See some discussion at
Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility).
PatGallacher (
talk)
13:17, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:36, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
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