![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Regarding:
North Korea offered to send their own investigative team to review the evidence compiled by South Korea,[103] and the Hankyoreh quoted Kim Yeon-chul, professor of unification studies at Inje University, commenting on the offer: "It is unprecedented..."
Has there been a south korean response? If so that should be stated in the same section of the article. If not, it should be added that "As of early August 2010, the South has not responded" or similar wording. Harel ( talk) 02:52, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
...sort of died. Comments on the current state of the article, any suggestions, is it neutral enough for the tag to go down? C628 ( talk) 00:43, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
The fact that we have separate articles for the ship and its sinking smacks of POV. It is WP:RECENTISM & WP:UNDUE. In this case, it is part of its own article and a separate sinking article. But "ROKS Cheonan" itself is mentioned in 43 other articles and the sinking ("ROKS Cheonan sinking") is referred to in 26 articles. My gosh! Compare and consider other significant ship sinkings. The USS Arizona (BB-39) has an article, but its sinking is described in its basic article and in the larger attack on Pearl Harbor. (Indeed, the US lost 3 battleships and 6 aircraft carriers in WWII List of United States Navy losses in World War II. Is there an article for each of those sinkings?) Similarly, the German battle cruiser SMS Lützow was sunk during the WWI Battle of Jutland. Over eight thousand (8,645) sailors died in this battle! Is there a separate article for the sinking of each ship? No. Keeping this article separate from the main ship article contributes to WP:BIAS. Creating and keeping it as a separate article is nothing more than editors saying "I think something notable happened here because I see it in the news and I'm concerned about the tensions between the Koreas." Moving it into the main article will lessen this problem.-- S. Rich ( talk) 15:57, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
I would not say we are going round-n-round the mulberry bush on this. Rather, the outrage over the unfortunate deaths has lessened and both nK and sK are now concerned with other issues. The 2010 Copiapó mining accident and rescue of 33 miners now has us feeling good about the world. So, it is time for WP:WORLDVIEW to take over and allow us to merge the articles.-- S. Rich ( talk) 17:43, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
I removed some of Prof. Cumming's opinion from the history section. It seemed to me to set up a NK revenge scenario for the sinking, that, while plausible, is just one of any number of possible reasons the ship sunk (many also not directly involving NK), and therefore does not need to be inordinately made prominent by including it in the history section, which, to my mind, should contain only impartial, factual background material.
In fact I am not sure if the extra section "History of ship sinkings on both sides" is really necessary, or whether the salient information can be incorporated in a general Background section.
Otherwise, it may be appropriate to have separate geographical and historical background sections.--
Be gottlieb (
talk)
10:35, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
live right now: http://gadebate.un.org/Portals/1/statements/634213566939062500KP_en.pdf Lihaas ( talk) 16:06, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I added the Russian Navy investigation under inquiries in the Infobox, however, the question arose (to me) whether we really need the inquiries and charges content there. The charges are contentious anyway and the controversy is not really explainable in the limited space of the infobox. Opinions?-- Be gottlieb ( talk) 15:41, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
This article is definitely not neutral. It cites a lot of random people and random newspapers complaining about South Korea doing this, the report not being accurate, etc. Yet I have no reason to believe any of these people are experts or otherwise noteworthy over and above everyone else. I'm reminded of the Simpsons episode where Bart Simpson points to some guy on the back of a book about UFO coverups - "and this guy is the head of the UFO department at the university of Tahoma!"
I also think this article should be merged with the ship article. John Smith's ( talk) 22:23, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
The most important event cited in this section references the Battle of Daecheong, but from what we know of that incident, it was almost entirely provoked by the North Koreans. If one reads the quotes in this uncited section, one gets the impression that South Korea has been provoking North Korea in these waters, when in fact the opposite appears to be true. While I think it is important to denote past ship to ship conflicts, it should be completely rewritten to remove any bias. The strange quotations here should also be removed. M4bwav ( talk) 05:43, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
Was the full report actually published? The Korea Times says so, but where is it? -- Babelfisch ( talk) 07:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Leerizal4062 ( talk · contribs) added some text to the article which was promptly removed because it lacked any references. This is the removed text:
If we can procure the requisite sources for this information, I guess this may be appropriate for inclusion into the article? __ meco ( talk) 07:07, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
oh yeah, one thing, THEY WILL UNITE ONE DAY. ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.41.93.192 ( talk) 04:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Before the survivors were gagged by the South Korean government, they did give a few interviews immediately after the incident.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/08/205_63804.html
"Some stated they had heard two loud explosions and immediately felt the ship tilt about 90 degrees to starboard."
How does the above testimony jive with the idea that a single torpedo struck the ship?
According to a documentary produced by Hankyoreh/HaniTV, marine guards claimed, in a hand-written statement that they saw two white flashes, not huge water columns that would be consistent with a torpedo blast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDITkTEDVNA
Also, one of the investigators, Professor Shin Young-shik of KAIST, describes injuries that would occur in the event of a 100G torpedo explosion - injuries that were not found in any of the survivors. This is important expert testimony, which never turns up in the unsigned report. As the report was unsigned - and as at least two investigators, Shin Young-shik and Shin Sang-cheol don't seem to agree with the conclusions, doesn't that call into question the authorship of the report itself?
From the above linked Korea Times piece, we find the following: "[The civilian divers] have raised the suspicion that the military response might have been lagging, and say the authorities could try to conceal the actual timeline of the incident."
agree on the divers, but since when are handwritten official testimonies "speculations"?
As for concealing the actual timeline of the incident, the officials have stated five different times for the "explosion": 9:45, 9:30, 9:35, 9:15, and 9:22.
Also, on Shin Sang-cheol's website we find this gem: "Six Problems on the Investigation Process of the Cheonan Sinking
. . . Hiding of the TOD image-recordings of the Cheonan breaking into half and sinking and changing of words
● The military initially had claimed that there was no TOD images, but partially released these images three times on March 30, April 1 and April after refutation by military retirees. However, it did not release the TOD images at the time of the incident and claimed that the released images are all it had every time. ● However, reports followed later that there are no blind spots in taking TOD images because they are taken automatically, and the media reported testimonies from unanimous informants that they have seen images at the time of the incident. National Assembly person Lee Jung-hee also spoke of the same thing at the National Assembly. ● According to testimonies of unanimous witnesses, the Cheonan was sailing with no problem but suddenly broke into half after which the stern sank in five minutes and the bow after floating about 20 minutes on water suddenly tilted toward the right and started to sink. They said that there was no water column. ● Several military officers sued National Assembly person Lee for defamation. However, additional TOD images were released on May 30, claiming that the images were taken after 40 seconds of the incident. There had not been any apology for perjury and they claimed that the suit is still effective against the assembly member."
Should we have a new section titled "Government's concealment of evidence"?
This is a very important article and there is no need to merge it with the article about the ship itself. Because this is a major political/military/media event, it obviously needs it's own article, like many other similar events. Therefore I am going to remove the merge tag. M4bwav ( talk) 15:05, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Everyone should stay cool and there should be no personal attacks. Good-faith edits are not vandalism. Heroeswithmetaphors ( talk) 13:07, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Rather than wade in and edit, especially since the info box has been a point of contention in the past, I though I'd express a couple of concerns here:
Firstly, the participants include "presumed" PRK. It would also be true, surely, that since there are conflicting conclusions drawn by, for example, China, to say that the PRK were "presumed" not to be involved. This is a self-defeating term, then, and surely presumption on Wikipedia should be avoided. I don't mean to add bias through word choice, but perhaps "disputed" or "alleged" would work better. Allegations can be backed up by sources, presumptions not so much.
For that matter, though the article itself notes other inquirers, these are not present in the infobox.
And on a different note, there is much prominence afforded to the specific inquiry which reached one conclusion, but the opposing voices are hand-waved with "disputed". Since the JIG investigation is identified, has its version of events noted, and even the methods expanded upon, it does not exactly seem good form to restrict the at-a-glance counter-argument to four words. I would suggest that a conclusion of a report is not a "charge" (as it is not being taken to court), and that (as a very nonspecific example) a substitution could be along the lines of: " JIG claim PRK as aggressor; PRK and China refute this claim; Russia refuse to release findings; UN Securities Council fails to identify aggressor." That way all nations are duly credited (JIG with a link to the relevant section that identifies individual nations present in that group, to stop it becoming too lengthy). ROK public speculation need not be included in the infobox, in my opinion, as they do not have the prominence of a government representative, a representative of governments, or an industry expert. Certainly, though, keep them in the article.
Talking about who is in and who isn't, Canada make a brief disappearance from the investigation team, according to the the article when it cites the Washington Post. Also, are there any more details of who made up the other countries' teams of "experts" and "investigators"? This is unrelated to the infobox, but it's such a minor point it hardly seems worth its own section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.145.92.114 ( talk) 16:09, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
It says the ship was carrying 104 members onboard, with 46 wounded and 56 killed. This would give us a total of 102 people. -- Bluesoju ( talk) 17:53, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
I don't think the recent change about the UNSC Presidential Statement conclusion is correct. The pertinent part of the statement is:
"In view of the findings of the Joint Civilian-Military Investigation Group led by the Republic of Korea with the participation of five nations, which concluded that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea was responsible for sinking the Cheonan, the Security Council expresses its deep concern.
The Security Council takes note of the responses from other relevant parties, including from the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, which has stated that it had nothing to do with the incident.
Therefore, the Security Council condemns the attack which led to the sinking of the Cheonan."
I don't think that can correctly be portrayed as "condemning the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea for the attack". It does not convey a firm view on who the attacker is. So I think our original summary as "condemning the attack but without identifying the attacker" is correct. Any views before I change back? Rwendland ( talk) 11:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
The ROKS Cheonan article should be merged here, because it is largely a duplication of this article. I know this was discussed earlier, but I think it should be revisited.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 20:46, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
I've put the neutrality tag back because I think the article is too biased in undermining the report's conclusions that North Korea was to blame. For example, one entire sub-section is labelled "Other international research which conflicts with the official JIG report". Why is it exclusively for conflict, rather than agreement? I have retitled this, but I think it needs to have a broader, less partisan collection of information or be merged with others. I have also cropped the information from the Nature article - people can read the article. I don't see why the allegations repeated in that article (it was not research by Nature) need to be written in full here.
Then there's the poll that suggests most South Koreans didn't trust the report. That is not what the results of the poll showed, it was that almost as many trusted it as didn't - it was just that many were undecided/didn't know.
There are other issues as well, but I don't have the time to list them all here. I really suggest that other editors work to improve the balance in the article, but perhaps more importantly the structure. There are far, far too many sub-sections, and I would remove all of the sub-sub-sections from "reaction" if possible. John Smith's ( talk) 18:26, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I have now modified the lead section. Blogs can't be used as sources, and the allegations over the Russian report were not confirmed. It's also important to show that China was one of few countries to criticise the report, most that had official reactions supported South Korea and/or condemned Pyongyang. I also don't think that Nature should be cited in the lead because it was a repeat of other criticisms, not a detailed report of its own into what happened. Otherwise it would have to be balanced out by "proiment sources" that agreedw with the report. And what is a "prominent source" anyway? John Smith's ( talk) 18:35, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I think the article's problem now is not neutrality - it was pretty reasonable on that score as the twists of the story unfolded; but that since the RIG final report was published (late and without fanfare, unlike the earlier press event summaries) very little has been done to update the article. I think a summary of the RIG final report (which has impressive detail in 312 pages) should be presented near the top, and the rest presented as more of a History of Events. It is poor that "early speculation" is encountered before more solid information in the article. I suspect that would make it read more neutral. But it would be a fair bit of work to do properly, as the report is so large. Rwendland ( talk) 01:51, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
ROKS Cheonan sinking. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 19:27, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Regarding:
North Korea offered to send their own investigative team to review the evidence compiled by South Korea,[103] and the Hankyoreh quoted Kim Yeon-chul, professor of unification studies at Inje University, commenting on the offer: "It is unprecedented..."
Has there been a south korean response? If so that should be stated in the same section of the article. If not, it should be added that "As of early August 2010, the South has not responded" or similar wording. Harel ( talk) 02:52, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
...sort of died. Comments on the current state of the article, any suggestions, is it neutral enough for the tag to go down? C628 ( talk) 00:43, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
The fact that we have separate articles for the ship and its sinking smacks of POV. It is WP:RECENTISM & WP:UNDUE. In this case, it is part of its own article and a separate sinking article. But "ROKS Cheonan" itself is mentioned in 43 other articles and the sinking ("ROKS Cheonan sinking") is referred to in 26 articles. My gosh! Compare and consider other significant ship sinkings. The USS Arizona (BB-39) has an article, but its sinking is described in its basic article and in the larger attack on Pearl Harbor. (Indeed, the US lost 3 battleships and 6 aircraft carriers in WWII List of United States Navy losses in World War II. Is there an article for each of those sinkings?) Similarly, the German battle cruiser SMS Lützow was sunk during the WWI Battle of Jutland. Over eight thousand (8,645) sailors died in this battle! Is there a separate article for the sinking of each ship? No. Keeping this article separate from the main ship article contributes to WP:BIAS. Creating and keeping it as a separate article is nothing more than editors saying "I think something notable happened here because I see it in the news and I'm concerned about the tensions between the Koreas." Moving it into the main article will lessen this problem.-- S. Rich ( talk) 15:57, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
I would not say we are going round-n-round the mulberry bush on this. Rather, the outrage over the unfortunate deaths has lessened and both nK and sK are now concerned with other issues. The 2010 Copiapó mining accident and rescue of 33 miners now has us feeling good about the world. So, it is time for WP:WORLDVIEW to take over and allow us to merge the articles.-- S. Rich ( talk) 17:43, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
I removed some of Prof. Cumming's opinion from the history section. It seemed to me to set up a NK revenge scenario for the sinking, that, while plausible, is just one of any number of possible reasons the ship sunk (many also not directly involving NK), and therefore does not need to be inordinately made prominent by including it in the history section, which, to my mind, should contain only impartial, factual background material.
In fact I am not sure if the extra section "History of ship sinkings on both sides" is really necessary, or whether the salient information can be incorporated in a general Background section.
Otherwise, it may be appropriate to have separate geographical and historical background sections.--
Be gottlieb (
talk)
10:35, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
live right now: http://gadebate.un.org/Portals/1/statements/634213566939062500KP_en.pdf Lihaas ( talk) 16:06, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I added the Russian Navy investigation under inquiries in the Infobox, however, the question arose (to me) whether we really need the inquiries and charges content there. The charges are contentious anyway and the controversy is not really explainable in the limited space of the infobox. Opinions?-- Be gottlieb ( talk) 15:41, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
This article is definitely not neutral. It cites a lot of random people and random newspapers complaining about South Korea doing this, the report not being accurate, etc. Yet I have no reason to believe any of these people are experts or otherwise noteworthy over and above everyone else. I'm reminded of the Simpsons episode where Bart Simpson points to some guy on the back of a book about UFO coverups - "and this guy is the head of the UFO department at the university of Tahoma!"
I also think this article should be merged with the ship article. John Smith's ( talk) 22:23, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
The most important event cited in this section references the Battle of Daecheong, but from what we know of that incident, it was almost entirely provoked by the North Koreans. If one reads the quotes in this uncited section, one gets the impression that South Korea has been provoking North Korea in these waters, when in fact the opposite appears to be true. While I think it is important to denote past ship to ship conflicts, it should be completely rewritten to remove any bias. The strange quotations here should also be removed. M4bwav ( talk) 05:43, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
Was the full report actually published? The Korea Times says so, but where is it? -- Babelfisch ( talk) 07:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Leerizal4062 ( talk · contribs) added some text to the article which was promptly removed because it lacked any references. This is the removed text:
If we can procure the requisite sources for this information, I guess this may be appropriate for inclusion into the article? __ meco ( talk) 07:07, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
oh yeah, one thing, THEY WILL UNITE ONE DAY. ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.41.93.192 ( talk) 04:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Before the survivors were gagged by the South Korean government, they did give a few interviews immediately after the incident.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/08/205_63804.html
"Some stated they had heard two loud explosions and immediately felt the ship tilt about 90 degrees to starboard."
How does the above testimony jive with the idea that a single torpedo struck the ship?
According to a documentary produced by Hankyoreh/HaniTV, marine guards claimed, in a hand-written statement that they saw two white flashes, not huge water columns that would be consistent with a torpedo blast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDITkTEDVNA
Also, one of the investigators, Professor Shin Young-shik of KAIST, describes injuries that would occur in the event of a 100G torpedo explosion - injuries that were not found in any of the survivors. This is important expert testimony, which never turns up in the unsigned report. As the report was unsigned - and as at least two investigators, Shin Young-shik and Shin Sang-cheol don't seem to agree with the conclusions, doesn't that call into question the authorship of the report itself?
From the above linked Korea Times piece, we find the following: "[The civilian divers] have raised the suspicion that the military response might have been lagging, and say the authorities could try to conceal the actual timeline of the incident."
agree on the divers, but since when are handwritten official testimonies "speculations"?
As for concealing the actual timeline of the incident, the officials have stated five different times for the "explosion": 9:45, 9:30, 9:35, 9:15, and 9:22.
Also, on Shin Sang-cheol's website we find this gem: "Six Problems on the Investigation Process of the Cheonan Sinking
. . . Hiding of the TOD image-recordings of the Cheonan breaking into half and sinking and changing of words
● The military initially had claimed that there was no TOD images, but partially released these images three times on March 30, April 1 and April after refutation by military retirees. However, it did not release the TOD images at the time of the incident and claimed that the released images are all it had every time. ● However, reports followed later that there are no blind spots in taking TOD images because they are taken automatically, and the media reported testimonies from unanimous informants that they have seen images at the time of the incident. National Assembly person Lee Jung-hee also spoke of the same thing at the National Assembly. ● According to testimonies of unanimous witnesses, the Cheonan was sailing with no problem but suddenly broke into half after which the stern sank in five minutes and the bow after floating about 20 minutes on water suddenly tilted toward the right and started to sink. They said that there was no water column. ● Several military officers sued National Assembly person Lee for defamation. However, additional TOD images were released on May 30, claiming that the images were taken after 40 seconds of the incident. There had not been any apology for perjury and they claimed that the suit is still effective against the assembly member."
Should we have a new section titled "Government's concealment of evidence"?
This is a very important article and there is no need to merge it with the article about the ship itself. Because this is a major political/military/media event, it obviously needs it's own article, like many other similar events. Therefore I am going to remove the merge tag. M4bwav ( talk) 15:05, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Everyone should stay cool and there should be no personal attacks. Good-faith edits are not vandalism. Heroeswithmetaphors ( talk) 13:07, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Rather than wade in and edit, especially since the info box has been a point of contention in the past, I though I'd express a couple of concerns here:
Firstly, the participants include "presumed" PRK. It would also be true, surely, that since there are conflicting conclusions drawn by, for example, China, to say that the PRK were "presumed" not to be involved. This is a self-defeating term, then, and surely presumption on Wikipedia should be avoided. I don't mean to add bias through word choice, but perhaps "disputed" or "alleged" would work better. Allegations can be backed up by sources, presumptions not so much.
For that matter, though the article itself notes other inquirers, these are not present in the infobox.
And on a different note, there is much prominence afforded to the specific inquiry which reached one conclusion, but the opposing voices are hand-waved with "disputed". Since the JIG investigation is identified, has its version of events noted, and even the methods expanded upon, it does not exactly seem good form to restrict the at-a-glance counter-argument to four words. I would suggest that a conclusion of a report is not a "charge" (as it is not being taken to court), and that (as a very nonspecific example) a substitution could be along the lines of: " JIG claim PRK as aggressor; PRK and China refute this claim; Russia refuse to release findings; UN Securities Council fails to identify aggressor." That way all nations are duly credited (JIG with a link to the relevant section that identifies individual nations present in that group, to stop it becoming too lengthy). ROK public speculation need not be included in the infobox, in my opinion, as they do not have the prominence of a government representative, a representative of governments, or an industry expert. Certainly, though, keep them in the article.
Talking about who is in and who isn't, Canada make a brief disappearance from the investigation team, according to the the article when it cites the Washington Post. Also, are there any more details of who made up the other countries' teams of "experts" and "investigators"? This is unrelated to the infobox, but it's such a minor point it hardly seems worth its own section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.145.92.114 ( talk) 16:09, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
It says the ship was carrying 104 members onboard, with 46 wounded and 56 killed. This would give us a total of 102 people. -- Bluesoju ( talk) 17:53, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
I don't think the recent change about the UNSC Presidential Statement conclusion is correct. The pertinent part of the statement is:
"In view of the findings of the Joint Civilian-Military Investigation Group led by the Republic of Korea with the participation of five nations, which concluded that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea was responsible for sinking the Cheonan, the Security Council expresses its deep concern.
The Security Council takes note of the responses from other relevant parties, including from the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, which has stated that it had nothing to do with the incident.
Therefore, the Security Council condemns the attack which led to the sinking of the Cheonan."
I don't think that can correctly be portrayed as "condemning the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea for the attack". It does not convey a firm view on who the attacker is. So I think our original summary as "condemning the attack but without identifying the attacker" is correct. Any views before I change back? Rwendland ( talk) 11:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
The ROKS Cheonan article should be merged here, because it is largely a duplication of this article. I know this was discussed earlier, but I think it should be revisited.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 20:46, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
I've put the neutrality tag back because I think the article is too biased in undermining the report's conclusions that North Korea was to blame. For example, one entire sub-section is labelled "Other international research which conflicts with the official JIG report". Why is it exclusively for conflict, rather than agreement? I have retitled this, but I think it needs to have a broader, less partisan collection of information or be merged with others. I have also cropped the information from the Nature article - people can read the article. I don't see why the allegations repeated in that article (it was not research by Nature) need to be written in full here.
Then there's the poll that suggests most South Koreans didn't trust the report. That is not what the results of the poll showed, it was that almost as many trusted it as didn't - it was just that many were undecided/didn't know.
There are other issues as well, but I don't have the time to list them all here. I really suggest that other editors work to improve the balance in the article, but perhaps more importantly the structure. There are far, far too many sub-sections, and I would remove all of the sub-sub-sections from "reaction" if possible. John Smith's ( talk) 18:26, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I have now modified the lead section. Blogs can't be used as sources, and the allegations over the Russian report were not confirmed. It's also important to show that China was one of few countries to criticise the report, most that had official reactions supported South Korea and/or condemned Pyongyang. I also don't think that Nature should be cited in the lead because it was a repeat of other criticisms, not a detailed report of its own into what happened. Otherwise it would have to be balanced out by "proiment sources" that agreedw with the report. And what is a "prominent source" anyway? John Smith's ( talk) 18:35, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I think the article's problem now is not neutrality - it was pretty reasonable on that score as the twists of the story unfolded; but that since the RIG final report was published (late and without fanfare, unlike the earlier press event summaries) very little has been done to update the article. I think a summary of the RIG final report (which has impressive detail in 312 pages) should be presented near the top, and the rest presented as more of a History of Events. It is poor that "early speculation" is encountered before more solid information in the article. I suspect that would make it read more neutral. But it would be a fair bit of work to do properly, as the report is so large. Rwendland ( talk) 01:51, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
ROKS Cheonan sinking. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 19:27, 30 January 2016 (UTC)