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Maybe this article ought to be renamed to something else. It deals more with Quivira and Cibola as two of the Sixteen Cities rather than just Quivira. Maybe make another article titled Quivira that just explains it's one of the two legendary cities, and make this the central article or something.
Timmothias 03:21, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
I have an old spanish map showing Quivira as being near to either Utah Lake or the Great Salt Lake in Utah. Also some reference in a book called "The Kingdom of New Spain" by Pedro Alonso O'Crouley from 1774. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dswkamp ( talk • contribs) 23 July 2006.
Coronado's surname is Vázquez, not "Vásquez". As his article displays, in fact ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_V%C3%A1zquez_de_Coronado). "Vásquez" is an incorrect spelling originated in a South-American overcorrection of the z pronunciation of the letter s common in Southern Spain. -- 217.127.191.232 ( talk) 07:49, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Mérida (Emerita Augusta) was taken by the Moors in AD 713. Surrendering under good terms.The Metropolitan see disappeared in 1119 in favour of Santiago de Compostela (Galicia) and the Leonese -from the Christian kingdom of León- took the town in 1230, that the Muslims lost for good. What was born in c.1150 was the legend of the 7 bishops.
Upon further research, I can't find any reliable source stating that the names "Cibola" or "Quivira" were ever recorded before 1539, contrary to what this article had until now. The mythical Seven Cities of Gold should be a separate topic, since the only name I can find applied to them before that is Antilia. In 1539, the Spanish started looking for the rumored "seven cities of gold" called Cibola, but when they found te Zuni country, which all the sources agree was actually called "Cibola", they were not of gold, but adobe pueblos. While among the pueblos, Coronado first heard of Quivira from an Indian called "The Turk", who lied and said there was a lot of gold there, but on going there, he found none. There is enough material on all three subjects to make 3 articles, and no good reason to lump them all together. Til Eulenspiegel ( talk) 22:40, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Cibola and Quivira were not exactly considered two of the Seven cities. "Cibola" in itself was rumored to be composed of the seven cities of gold, and when the Spaniards got there they indeed found it included seven settlements (Zuni), but not of gold. Then Coronado heard from "the Turk" that there was plenty of gold in Quivira, but when he finally got there, could not find the gold.
The European legend is really the same as that of Antilia, so that part of this article should be merged there, with due mention and link from the other articles emerging from this split. Cibola is really the same as Zuni-Cibola Complex, so that part of this article should be merged there. That only leaves the parts about Quivira, so the remnant of this article should be returned to simply Quivira. So in clearing up this confusion, there will not be any actual new articles created; I will simply be splitting some parts off to Antilia and Zuni-Cibola Complex, then renaming the remnant as Quivira. Til Eulenspiegel ( talk) 12:57, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Ther's another explanation for the controversial reference to 1150. In c.1150 the Northern African geographer al-Idrisi in a book for the Franco-Norman king Roger II of Sicily reported that 8 Andalusian Muslim sailors or adventurers from Lisbon reached a "stinky sea" (the Sargasso Sea?) in the North Atlantic Ocean. See the article Guanches for further reference, to be precise the paragraph by the title of "Before the Spanish Conquest". The Portuguese (with English support) had taken Muslim Lisbon in 1147. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.8.98.118 ( talk) 11:06, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
See Romance (genre).According to the Spaniard writers Fernando Martínez Laínez and Carlos Canales Torres (book 'Banderas lejanas', Edaf, 2009, page 60), the legend of the 7 bishops making away from the Muslim conquest of Visigoth Hispania appears for the first time in 'Amadis of Gaula', a chivalry romance from the 14th century - and highly popular- and printed in 1508. 'Banderas lejanas' is a book on the Spaniard explorers and military in the current USA from the 1500s to the 1820s. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.8.98.118 ( talk) 11:59, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
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Since it seems to have done no good to post this at your talk page @ Tulgan-Battulga:, [1], I'll post this here.
The Turk and others. And then there is this, which is the cite used for info you keep removing from the article. No one has said this person was an actual "Turk" from the Old World, this is in no way connected with Turkish nationalism or "PanTurkism", whatever the fuck that is. But it is an attested historical fact that the Spaniards called this person "The Turk", because they thought he looked like one. I'd drop this if I were you, edit warring over this when you obviously do not know what you are talking about wont go well for you. Continue to remove this information, especially without discussion here or elsewhere, and this matter will be taken to the edit war admin board. He iro 13:26, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
In William K. Hartmann's historic novel Cities of Gold, he identifies Quivira as the name of the buffalo in one of the Pueblo languages? I think this was from Fray Marcos de Niza's correspondence with the Viceroy, though it's not like a novel is indexed. But Hartmann's definitely read all the historic literature, including some pretty obscure stuff. For instance, he has harsh words for Carl O. Sauer on the subject of Fray Marcos's veracity re what Estevanico called "Quivira," which turned out to be one of the historic pueblos of modern Zuni. Anyway, I'll look into this a bit, and if I find a verifiable cite, I'll add it. -- Pete Tillman ( talk) 22:53, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
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Maybe this article ought to be renamed to something else. It deals more with Quivira and Cibola as two of the Sixteen Cities rather than just Quivira. Maybe make another article titled Quivira that just explains it's one of the two legendary cities, and make this the central article or something.
Timmothias 03:21, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
I have an old spanish map showing Quivira as being near to either Utah Lake or the Great Salt Lake in Utah. Also some reference in a book called "The Kingdom of New Spain" by Pedro Alonso O'Crouley from 1774. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dswkamp ( talk • contribs) 23 July 2006.
Coronado's surname is Vázquez, not "Vásquez". As his article displays, in fact ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_V%C3%A1zquez_de_Coronado). "Vásquez" is an incorrect spelling originated in a South-American overcorrection of the z pronunciation of the letter s common in Southern Spain. -- 217.127.191.232 ( talk) 07:49, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Mérida (Emerita Augusta) was taken by the Moors in AD 713. Surrendering under good terms.The Metropolitan see disappeared in 1119 in favour of Santiago de Compostela (Galicia) and the Leonese -from the Christian kingdom of León- took the town in 1230, that the Muslims lost for good. What was born in c.1150 was the legend of the 7 bishops.
Upon further research, I can't find any reliable source stating that the names "Cibola" or "Quivira" were ever recorded before 1539, contrary to what this article had until now. The mythical Seven Cities of Gold should be a separate topic, since the only name I can find applied to them before that is Antilia. In 1539, the Spanish started looking for the rumored "seven cities of gold" called Cibola, but when they found te Zuni country, which all the sources agree was actually called "Cibola", they were not of gold, but adobe pueblos. While among the pueblos, Coronado first heard of Quivira from an Indian called "The Turk", who lied and said there was a lot of gold there, but on going there, he found none. There is enough material on all three subjects to make 3 articles, and no good reason to lump them all together. Til Eulenspiegel ( talk) 22:40, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Cibola and Quivira were not exactly considered two of the Seven cities. "Cibola" in itself was rumored to be composed of the seven cities of gold, and when the Spaniards got there they indeed found it included seven settlements (Zuni), but not of gold. Then Coronado heard from "the Turk" that there was plenty of gold in Quivira, but when he finally got there, could not find the gold.
The European legend is really the same as that of Antilia, so that part of this article should be merged there, with due mention and link from the other articles emerging from this split. Cibola is really the same as Zuni-Cibola Complex, so that part of this article should be merged there. That only leaves the parts about Quivira, so the remnant of this article should be returned to simply Quivira. So in clearing up this confusion, there will not be any actual new articles created; I will simply be splitting some parts off to Antilia and Zuni-Cibola Complex, then renaming the remnant as Quivira. Til Eulenspiegel ( talk) 12:57, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Ther's another explanation for the controversial reference to 1150. In c.1150 the Northern African geographer al-Idrisi in a book for the Franco-Norman king Roger II of Sicily reported that 8 Andalusian Muslim sailors or adventurers from Lisbon reached a "stinky sea" (the Sargasso Sea?) in the North Atlantic Ocean. See the article Guanches for further reference, to be precise the paragraph by the title of "Before the Spanish Conquest". The Portuguese (with English support) had taken Muslim Lisbon in 1147. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.8.98.118 ( talk) 11:06, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
See Romance (genre).According to the Spaniard writers Fernando Martínez Laínez and Carlos Canales Torres (book 'Banderas lejanas', Edaf, 2009, page 60), the legend of the 7 bishops making away from the Muslim conquest of Visigoth Hispania appears for the first time in 'Amadis of Gaula', a chivalry romance from the 14th century - and highly popular- and printed in 1508. 'Banderas lejanas' is a book on the Spaniard explorers and military in the current USA from the 1500s to the 1820s. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.8.98.118 ( talk) 11:59, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:58, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Since it seems to have done no good to post this at your talk page @ Tulgan-Battulga:, [1], I'll post this here.
The Turk and others. And then there is this, which is the cite used for info you keep removing from the article. No one has said this person was an actual "Turk" from the Old World, this is in no way connected with Turkish nationalism or "PanTurkism", whatever the fuck that is. But it is an attested historical fact that the Spaniards called this person "The Turk", because they thought he looked like one. I'd drop this if I were you, edit warring over this when you obviously do not know what you are talking about wont go well for you. Continue to remove this information, especially without discussion here or elsewhere, and this matter will be taken to the edit war admin board. He iro 13:26, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
In William K. Hartmann's historic novel Cities of Gold, he identifies Quivira as the name of the buffalo in one of the Pueblo languages? I think this was from Fray Marcos de Niza's correspondence with the Viceroy, though it's not like a novel is indexed. But Hartmann's definitely read all the historic literature, including some pretty obscure stuff. For instance, he has harsh words for Carl O. Sauer on the subject of Fray Marcos's veracity re what Estevanico called "Quivira," which turned out to be one of the historic pueblos of modern Zuni. Anyway, I'll look into this a bit, and if I find a verifiable cite, I'll add it. -- Pete Tillman ( talk) 22:53, 22 May 2022 (UTC)