This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
We understand this is a sensitive issue but remember it is a sensitive issue not only to those in the secret society but to those outside of it as well. You may think the claims made in the article are baseless but I am not going to put anything in that is not true. I can't speak for others who edit this article but I hope they will stick to the truth as well.
Wiki rules state "Content must not violate any copyright and must be verifiable." External links should follow the same rules. They also should have a neutral point of view. The Uncle Ezra link is clearly a Cornell University affiliated source and should be acceptable.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 2afterblue ( talk • contribs)
For the record, lyontower.blogspot.com, is the website that is under discussion here. Please add your thoughts.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.96.160.215 ( talk • contribs)
The anonymous edit used the term "posing" and I am not sure that is right. Multiple people are contributing to this page. We encourage all those with true information to add it to this page and encourage the debunking of fallacies. Nevertheless, we ask those to not vandalize the page out of spite or self-interest.
I have found Quill and Dagger Society's history book recently and it clears up a lot of discussion on this board. It is entitled "A History of the Quill and Dagger Society of Cornell University" by Clark Sutherland Northup '93, Professor of English, Emeritus and printed privately in 1948. To quote a few excerpts 1. "The Quill and Dagger Society was founded in the spring of 1893. A Sphinx Head man, now dead, is said to have suggested the idea to our founders. He believed in the friendly rivalry of two senior societies." (Pg. 1) Also, the book makes no mention of any of Cornell's children participating in it's founding. I think this adequately clears up the origin of Quill and Dagger. 2. "Q and D was founded as a secret organization, but in 1894, it was made a non-secret society. For a time in 1897-1899, it was again secret. But in 1899 the members arrived at a conclusion that if Q and D continued to be a secret society it might lose men who would be valuable members. And Q and D could accomodate its objects quite as well by becoming non-secret. There has been no change in policy." 3. One student was a member of both, William P. CHapman Jr. 1895 4. "The Society was incorporated on May 28, 1912." 5. "Members may display the rooms to members of their immediate family, friends not connected with the University, alumni graduated 30 years, and Senior men not members of Sphinx Head. Visitors are required to register in the guest book provided for that purpose."
That's pretty covers all of the points of contention on this post. Please read the History as it is very interesting and much detail about the organization and their alumni members. It seems that Quill and Dagger was organized for the purpose of the betterment of Cornell and from the looks of it, they have done a good job.
There have been a recent slew of unsubstantiated and incorrect facts posted by people who are not members of the society. These will continue to be removed.
The following text was removed because it is opinion and cannot be substantiated."Quill and Dagger recognizes exemplary leaders on campus who have shown outstanding leadership, impeccable character and dedication to service. Almost every Cornell President including Hunter R. Rawlings III, Jeffrey Lehman, Frank H.T. Rhodes and Dale R. Corson has been a part of the society. Quill and Dagger stands alone as Cornell's only secret senior honor society that has endured and thrived continually since its founding over a century ago."
Something doesn't make sense here -- how can we know that Quill and Dagger is the only secret senior honor society that has endured if it is very possible that other (more secret?) societies exist. Besides, 'endured' and 'thrived' is most definitely opinion.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.96.160.215 ( talk • contribs) .
Both Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Janet Reno graduated before Quill and Dagger started tapping females into the society. If anything they might be considered "honorary members" and I have deleted their names from the entry.
I am writing this to document an ongoing dispute.
Cornell2010 did not respond.I see that you undid some of my cleanup edits to the article Quill and Dagger. The edits I made were to remove promotional and/or uncited material, in accordance with the content guidelines, particularly WP:NPOV, and WP:NOT. If you disagree with edits another editor makes, you should discuss them with that editor. Undoing another editor's actions, claiming they were vandalism when they were explained in the edit summary is not acting in good faith. Additionally, after reviewing your edits its seems the vast majority of them relate to the Quill and Dagger organization. It is not appropriate for clubs, businesses, or other organizations to use Wikipedia for promotional purposes. If you are in some way affiliated with this club, see WP:COI as well. If there are particular concerns you have with my edits, please explain so that I am able to address them. Prodego talk 21:04, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
I would argue that information is entirely promotional, unsourcable (e.g. "Its members often hold more than half of the positions on the "25 Most Influential Undergraduates" is not going to be sourcable, "A large number of alumni in administrative positions at Cornell University have held membership" is unsourced, "Since its founding, Quill and Dagger has been well-connected with the presidents of Cornell University." is subjective and unsourcable, "Society influence appears to be strongest in the U.S. government and large corporations." is extremely promotional and unsourcable. The article does not read neutrally, and that needs to be corrected. Prodego talk 18:16, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
I did some cleanup to make sources and connections between prose more explicit. Honestly, though, most of your concerns can by chalked up to stylistic issues. Most of the unsourced sentences you mentioned are followed immediately by supporting cited prose. You're disputing statements that act essentially as section headings. I did remove the sentence "Society influence appears to be strongest..." for being superfluous and feeling a bit like an WP:OR conclusion, however. — Notyourbroom ( talk) 18:49, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Let's keep future comments on this page. — Notyourbroom ( talk) 20:58, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Article has a photo of E. B. White wearing his Quill and Dagger Pin. In this photo, the pin is too small to be clearly seen. It would be good to have a better photo of the pin in this article. Wideangle ( talk) 20:01, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
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Ezra Cornell died in 1874, long before Quill and Dagger was founded. Ezra Cornell (11 January 1807 – 9 December 1874)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
We understand this is a sensitive issue but remember it is a sensitive issue not only to those in the secret society but to those outside of it as well. You may think the claims made in the article are baseless but I am not going to put anything in that is not true. I can't speak for others who edit this article but I hope they will stick to the truth as well.
Wiki rules state "Content must not violate any copyright and must be verifiable." External links should follow the same rules. They also should have a neutral point of view. The Uncle Ezra link is clearly a Cornell University affiliated source and should be acceptable.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 2afterblue ( talk • contribs)
For the record, lyontower.blogspot.com, is the website that is under discussion here. Please add your thoughts.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.96.160.215 ( talk • contribs)
The anonymous edit used the term "posing" and I am not sure that is right. Multiple people are contributing to this page. We encourage all those with true information to add it to this page and encourage the debunking of fallacies. Nevertheless, we ask those to not vandalize the page out of spite or self-interest.
I have found Quill and Dagger Society's history book recently and it clears up a lot of discussion on this board. It is entitled "A History of the Quill and Dagger Society of Cornell University" by Clark Sutherland Northup '93, Professor of English, Emeritus and printed privately in 1948. To quote a few excerpts 1. "The Quill and Dagger Society was founded in the spring of 1893. A Sphinx Head man, now dead, is said to have suggested the idea to our founders. He believed in the friendly rivalry of two senior societies." (Pg. 1) Also, the book makes no mention of any of Cornell's children participating in it's founding. I think this adequately clears up the origin of Quill and Dagger. 2. "Q and D was founded as a secret organization, but in 1894, it was made a non-secret society. For a time in 1897-1899, it was again secret. But in 1899 the members arrived at a conclusion that if Q and D continued to be a secret society it might lose men who would be valuable members. And Q and D could accomodate its objects quite as well by becoming non-secret. There has been no change in policy." 3. One student was a member of both, William P. CHapman Jr. 1895 4. "The Society was incorporated on May 28, 1912." 5. "Members may display the rooms to members of their immediate family, friends not connected with the University, alumni graduated 30 years, and Senior men not members of Sphinx Head. Visitors are required to register in the guest book provided for that purpose."
That's pretty covers all of the points of contention on this post. Please read the History as it is very interesting and much detail about the organization and their alumni members. It seems that Quill and Dagger was organized for the purpose of the betterment of Cornell and from the looks of it, they have done a good job.
There have been a recent slew of unsubstantiated and incorrect facts posted by people who are not members of the society. These will continue to be removed.
The following text was removed because it is opinion and cannot be substantiated."Quill and Dagger recognizes exemplary leaders on campus who have shown outstanding leadership, impeccable character and dedication to service. Almost every Cornell President including Hunter R. Rawlings III, Jeffrey Lehman, Frank H.T. Rhodes and Dale R. Corson has been a part of the society. Quill and Dagger stands alone as Cornell's only secret senior honor society that has endured and thrived continually since its founding over a century ago."
Something doesn't make sense here -- how can we know that Quill and Dagger is the only secret senior honor society that has endured if it is very possible that other (more secret?) societies exist. Besides, 'endured' and 'thrived' is most definitely opinion.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.96.160.215 ( talk • contribs) .
Both Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Janet Reno graduated before Quill and Dagger started tapping females into the society. If anything they might be considered "honorary members" and I have deleted their names from the entry.
I am writing this to document an ongoing dispute.
Cornell2010 did not respond.I see that you undid some of my cleanup edits to the article Quill and Dagger. The edits I made were to remove promotional and/or uncited material, in accordance with the content guidelines, particularly WP:NPOV, and WP:NOT. If you disagree with edits another editor makes, you should discuss them with that editor. Undoing another editor's actions, claiming they were vandalism when they were explained in the edit summary is not acting in good faith. Additionally, after reviewing your edits its seems the vast majority of them relate to the Quill and Dagger organization. It is not appropriate for clubs, businesses, or other organizations to use Wikipedia for promotional purposes. If you are in some way affiliated with this club, see WP:COI as well. If there are particular concerns you have with my edits, please explain so that I am able to address them. Prodego talk 21:04, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
I would argue that information is entirely promotional, unsourcable (e.g. "Its members often hold more than half of the positions on the "25 Most Influential Undergraduates" is not going to be sourcable, "A large number of alumni in administrative positions at Cornell University have held membership" is unsourced, "Since its founding, Quill and Dagger has been well-connected with the presidents of Cornell University." is subjective and unsourcable, "Society influence appears to be strongest in the U.S. government and large corporations." is extremely promotional and unsourcable. The article does not read neutrally, and that needs to be corrected. Prodego talk 18:16, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
I did some cleanup to make sources and connections between prose more explicit. Honestly, though, most of your concerns can by chalked up to stylistic issues. Most of the unsourced sentences you mentioned are followed immediately by supporting cited prose. You're disputing statements that act essentially as section headings. I did remove the sentence "Society influence appears to be strongest..." for being superfluous and feeling a bit like an WP:OR conclusion, however. — Notyourbroom ( talk) 18:49, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Let's keep future comments on this page. — Notyourbroom ( talk) 20:58, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Article has a photo of E. B. White wearing his Quill and Dagger Pin. In this photo, the pin is too small to be clearly seen. It would be good to have a better photo of the pin in this article. Wideangle ( talk) 20:01, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Quill and Dagger. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:13, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Ezra Cornell died in 1874, long before Quill and Dagger was founded. Ezra Cornell (11 January 1807 – 9 December 1874)