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Wait a minute. Jiang has now change the page to start with Her Royal Highness, The Princess of Asturias, but she's not princess yet as the wedding is in May. Let us not write history before it actually is history... This should be change back! -- Vikingstad 08:49, Mar 22, 2004 (UTC)
I used "née" because I don't imagine "Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano" is her full name anymore. Wouldn't it be, if anything, "Letizia Ortiz de Borbón y Grecia"? - Montréalais 16:29, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)
in spain, the womans never change their surnames,always is the first father surname and the first mother surname
Exactly, in Spain women do never change their name. The above mentioned form of "de" followed by the husband's name is now old-fashioned but anyway was never legal. It was only a way of calling yourself but women never changed their name legally. Therefore she has never been called Letizia Guerrero. Do please change that as it is a serious error. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.147.17.60 ( talk) 17:13, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Why does Alonso Guerrero y Pérez, her first husband, redirect to this page? -- 67.71.78.193 1 July 2005 19:28 (UTC)
There is a lot of important information in that article. I think it is, but User:Andromeda apparently thinks not. I don't want to start a revert war about this, because I think that as it stands, the article has sufficient information. So what if she's the sister of the Crown Princess of Spain. I think her death, and the circumstances around it is notable enough to warrant her own article. Morhange 06:43, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
It seems the dates are off. It says she gave birth in April 2007, but died on Feb 7, 2007. I don't believe that's possible. Irishpisces 18:11, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Image:Letizia Ortiz Coat of Arms.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 15:07, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Was her first husband her high-school teacher? -- Error 00:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Letizia was married from 1998-1999 with Alonso Guerrero y Pérez, a previous teacher of hers. What are the naming conventions for a married woman in Spain, and how was she named and styled then? Something like Mrs. Letizia Guerrero-Ortiz?? Demophon ( talk) 13:32, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me this article needs improving substantially, but I dont know enough about the subject to tackle it myself. It does seem to contain a lot of "fluff" though, and a trivia section that (IMHO) doesnt even rate as trivia!....Should it be marked for a cleanup? Jcuk ( talk) 10:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I was directed to the page about the "Fast & the Furious" series when looking for this page (typing in "Leticia Ortiz"; note the spelling difference). I don't think there are any direct link paths from one page to the other. How would one go about correcting this? I am unfamiliar with the process of making a disambiguation page, and I don't know whether it would be useful or appropriate in this case. Tha Pyngwyn ( talk) 14:19, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
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Detailed info about honours and styles moved to List of titles and honours of Letizia, Princess of Asturias.-- Galico ( talk) 18:45, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Armbrust The Homunculus 12:47, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Letizia of Spain → Queen Letizia of Spain – As per naming customs for queen consorts ( WP:CONSORTS) this article should be a Queen Letizia of Spain, as is the case with other current queen consorts, ie Queen Mathilde of Belgium, Queen Máxima of the Netherlands, Queen Sonja of Norway, etc. Also, note that her mother-in-law's article was at Queen Sofía of Spain while she was a queen consort. Morhange ( talk) 22:16, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
I expect that Letizia's arms will need updating, now that she is Queen consort rather than Princes of Asturias? P M C 22:20, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
She seems to be wearing the exact same dress in both photos, so I doubt one was taken in 2010 and the other 2011... -- AnonMoos ( talk) 13:58, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
The name of Queen Letizia has not changed from Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano to Letizia of Spain, as queens do not change their surnames in Spain. At the official biography of the Spanish Royal House, her name appears as "Her Majesty the Queen, Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano". http://www.casareal.es/ES/FamiliaReal/ReinaLetizia/Paginas/princesa_biografia.aspx Therefore, the correct title should be, either "Queen Letizia", "Letizia, Queen of Spain", "Letizia, Queen consort of Spain" or just "Letizia Ortiz". But not "Letizia of Spain". 193.175.73.201 ( talk) 09:41, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
Added a full name section on info box. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.129.220 ( talk) 16:26, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
User:Malik_Shabazz moved the page from "Letizia of Spain" to "Letizia Ortiz". I have reverted that move as a discussion is still underway. Seven Letters 17:33, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
The common practice on Wikipedia for biographies, is to match the 'name' of article's subject with its article title. Thus this article's intro name, should be Queen Letizia of Spain. What do ya'll think? GoodDay ( talk) 10:21, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
After having read over the discussion here, my stance hasn't changed on the intro. Sources for Queen Letizia of Spain, surely outnumber sources (if any) for Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano, since her husband accended the throne. GoodDay ( talk) 00:25, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 14:31, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Queen Letizia of Spain → Letizia Ortiz – A more common name, consistent with the titles of articles about all Spanish queens except her mother-in-law. In addition to being more common in regards to plain numbers, it is also used by respectable media such as Reuters ( "Former journalist Letizia Ortiz becomes Spain's first commoner queen") and The Times ( "Letizia Ortiz: the republican who would be queen"). I assume the only argument in favor of "Queen Letizia of Spain" will be consistency with articles about contemporary queens consort, but if consistency is the most important aspect (and I don't think it is), it surely makes more sense to strive for consistency with 35 Spanish queens than with 4 non-Iberian queens. Surtsicna ( talk) 10:29, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Oppose Her full name is listed right below and there is a template stating that the name uses Spanish naming customs. In English, people just call her Queen Letizia (mostly because it's easier than writing her full name). We know she has a full name but we don't to refer to royals by their full name as this is the English Wikipedia and we have naming conventions that we have already followed.Also calling Letizia Ortiz might imply to English speaking people that she isn't a queen, as she has a title so one would expect the title to be used (English Wikipedia and is catered to English speaking people by using the common English name which doesn't happen to be the Spanish form). And we just had a requested move not long ago.--
Hipposcrashed (
talk)
14:03, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
I erased the "of fillipino descent" cause that simply isn't true she is not by birth/nationality nor by ancestry as the reference given states. She does not have duel nationality, it was her great-grandfather that was born there not her. She is not by ancestry either, as the reference given states her great-grandfather was born to Spanish parents. -- Anen87 ( talk) 22:35, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
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Letizia Ortiz was born in Oviedo in 1972. At the time of her birth, Spain was under the dictatorship of Francisco Franco and its official name was the Kingdom of Spain (like today, only the polity was fundamentally different and the head of state was not a monarch). Given the political upheaval and emergence of several 'Spanish' polities (Republic, dictatorship, constitutional monarchy etc.) across the twentieth century, and in the interest of historical fact and accuracy, it would be prudent to have an underlying link directing to the Francoist Spain page on her place of birth. In other words, the Spain she was born in is not constitutionally the same as the post-1975 Spain she is queen consort of today.
Some have argued that this is wrong - that historical 'time periods' should not feature in this respect. However, as a riposte to their refusal to reach consensus, I point to the Wikipedia page for Adolf Hitler. This details his place of death as 'Nazi Germany', however, this was never the official name of Germany. In fact, during the Nazi period, Germany continued to use the same official name as the Weimar Republic, the 'German Reich'. There is, therefore, inconsistency across Wikipedia's articles.
As a point of comparison, the articles of numerous historical and contemporary personalities on Wikipedia detail their places of birth as states that are no longer in existence today. The pages for Letizia's parents-in-law are an excellent example of such practice. This, I believe, is right and historically accurate. It enriches the general information about the person and provides the reader with convenient historical context. 195.147.250.224 ( talk) 18:21, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
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Should "heir presumptive" be "heiress presumptive"? If not, why not? Paul Magnussen ( talk) 15:40, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
She is undoubtedly Catholic, but I can't prove it. All the gossip columns gush about her not requiring a declaration of nullity before her Catholic marriage. The way this is possible is if she had been a baptized Catholic at the time of her first attempt at marriage. If she had been non-Catholic, then an investigation would have been required, and possibly a declaration of nullity would have been issued then. But until we find an article or book that asserts her Catholic status, no categories can apply. Elizium23 ( talk) 05:57, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
Should the intro to this article begin with Queen Letizia of Spain & the infobox heading be Letizia? or not. GoodDay ( talk) 21:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
If the trend continues towards no? I'll have to make changes to the intros & infoboxes of all the other current consort bios. See the consorts in Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Monaco, etc. GoodDay ( talk) 14:31, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Idealigic:, @ Vici Vidi: & @ AnomalousAtom:, should we then open an RM on this article. If the article is wrongly named? GoodDay ( talk) 14:23, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
The opening sentence of the article is wrong as Queen Letizia is not the "Queen of Spain". Under Royal Decree 1368/1987, which regulates the titles of the Spanish RF, "Queen of Spain" is a title reserved for reigning queens only. I don't understand why the sentence is not simply changed to "Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano is the queen consort of Spain as the wife of King Felipe VI". Note that "queen consort" in the proposed sentence is not a legal title (Letizia's only legal title in Spain is "Queen"), but rather a generic qualifier for her position in English (like saying that Charles, Prince of Wales, is the "heir apparent" to the thrones of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth realms). 2804:14C:165:8EC3:C0FA:D446:67A:7BB ( talk) 11:01, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Great grandparent was a Peninsulares / Criollo people, a term used in Spanish colonial times in the Philippines, for pure white Spaniards born in their colony of the Philippines. This means her great grandmother was a "White Filipina" born to pure White Spanish parents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.141.129.201 ( talk) 12:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Queen Letizia of Spain article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Wait a minute. Jiang has now change the page to start with Her Royal Highness, The Princess of Asturias, but she's not princess yet as the wedding is in May. Let us not write history before it actually is history... This should be change back! -- Vikingstad 08:49, Mar 22, 2004 (UTC)
I used "née" because I don't imagine "Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano" is her full name anymore. Wouldn't it be, if anything, "Letizia Ortiz de Borbón y Grecia"? - Montréalais 16:29, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)
in spain, the womans never change their surnames,always is the first father surname and the first mother surname
Exactly, in Spain women do never change their name. The above mentioned form of "de" followed by the husband's name is now old-fashioned but anyway was never legal. It was only a way of calling yourself but women never changed their name legally. Therefore she has never been called Letizia Guerrero. Do please change that as it is a serious error. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.147.17.60 ( talk) 17:13, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Why does Alonso Guerrero y Pérez, her first husband, redirect to this page? -- 67.71.78.193 1 July 2005 19:28 (UTC)
There is a lot of important information in that article. I think it is, but User:Andromeda apparently thinks not. I don't want to start a revert war about this, because I think that as it stands, the article has sufficient information. So what if she's the sister of the Crown Princess of Spain. I think her death, and the circumstances around it is notable enough to warrant her own article. Morhange 06:43, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
It seems the dates are off. It says she gave birth in April 2007, but died on Feb 7, 2007. I don't believe that's possible. Irishpisces 18:11, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Image:Letizia Ortiz Coat of Arms.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 15:07, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Was her first husband her high-school teacher? -- Error 00:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Letizia was married from 1998-1999 with Alonso Guerrero y Pérez, a previous teacher of hers. What are the naming conventions for a married woman in Spain, and how was she named and styled then? Something like Mrs. Letizia Guerrero-Ortiz?? Demophon ( talk) 13:32, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me this article needs improving substantially, but I dont know enough about the subject to tackle it myself. It does seem to contain a lot of "fluff" though, and a trivia section that (IMHO) doesnt even rate as trivia!....Should it be marked for a cleanup? Jcuk ( talk) 10:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I was directed to the page about the "Fast & the Furious" series when looking for this page (typing in "Leticia Ortiz"; note the spelling difference). I don't think there are any direct link paths from one page to the other. How would one go about correcting this? I am unfamiliar with the process of making a disambiguation page, and I don't know whether it would be useful or appropriate in this case. Tha Pyngwyn ( talk) 14:19, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
An image used in this article,
File:A RESI~1.JPG, has been nominated for deletion at
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Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
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Detailed info about honours and styles moved to List of titles and honours of Letizia, Princess of Asturias.-- Galico ( talk) 18:45, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Armbrust The Homunculus 12:47, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Letizia of Spain → Queen Letizia of Spain – As per naming customs for queen consorts ( WP:CONSORTS) this article should be a Queen Letizia of Spain, as is the case with other current queen consorts, ie Queen Mathilde of Belgium, Queen Máxima of the Netherlands, Queen Sonja of Norway, etc. Also, note that her mother-in-law's article was at Queen Sofía of Spain while she was a queen consort. Morhange ( talk) 22:16, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
I expect that Letizia's arms will need updating, now that she is Queen consort rather than Princes of Asturias? P M C 22:20, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
She seems to be wearing the exact same dress in both photos, so I doubt one was taken in 2010 and the other 2011... -- AnonMoos ( talk) 13:58, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
The name of Queen Letizia has not changed from Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano to Letizia of Spain, as queens do not change their surnames in Spain. At the official biography of the Spanish Royal House, her name appears as "Her Majesty the Queen, Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano". http://www.casareal.es/ES/FamiliaReal/ReinaLetizia/Paginas/princesa_biografia.aspx Therefore, the correct title should be, either "Queen Letizia", "Letizia, Queen of Spain", "Letizia, Queen consort of Spain" or just "Letizia Ortiz". But not "Letizia of Spain". 193.175.73.201 ( talk) 09:41, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
Added a full name section on info box. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.129.220 ( talk) 16:26, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
User:Malik_Shabazz moved the page from "Letizia of Spain" to "Letizia Ortiz". I have reverted that move as a discussion is still underway. Seven Letters 17:33, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
The common practice on Wikipedia for biographies, is to match the 'name' of article's subject with its article title. Thus this article's intro name, should be Queen Letizia of Spain. What do ya'll think? GoodDay ( talk) 10:21, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
After having read over the discussion here, my stance hasn't changed on the intro. Sources for Queen Letizia of Spain, surely outnumber sources (if any) for Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano, since her husband accended the throne. GoodDay ( talk) 00:25, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 14:31, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Queen Letizia of Spain → Letizia Ortiz – A more common name, consistent with the titles of articles about all Spanish queens except her mother-in-law. In addition to being more common in regards to plain numbers, it is also used by respectable media such as Reuters ( "Former journalist Letizia Ortiz becomes Spain's first commoner queen") and The Times ( "Letizia Ortiz: the republican who would be queen"). I assume the only argument in favor of "Queen Letizia of Spain" will be consistency with articles about contemporary queens consort, but if consistency is the most important aspect (and I don't think it is), it surely makes more sense to strive for consistency with 35 Spanish queens than with 4 non-Iberian queens. Surtsicna ( talk) 10:29, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Oppose Her full name is listed right below and there is a template stating that the name uses Spanish naming customs. In English, people just call her Queen Letizia (mostly because it's easier than writing her full name). We know she has a full name but we don't to refer to royals by their full name as this is the English Wikipedia and we have naming conventions that we have already followed.Also calling Letizia Ortiz might imply to English speaking people that she isn't a queen, as she has a title so one would expect the title to be used (English Wikipedia and is catered to English speaking people by using the common English name which doesn't happen to be the Spanish form). And we just had a requested move not long ago.--
Hipposcrashed (
talk)
14:03, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
I erased the "of fillipino descent" cause that simply isn't true she is not by birth/nationality nor by ancestry as the reference given states. She does not have duel nationality, it was her great-grandfather that was born there not her. She is not by ancestry either, as the reference given states her great-grandfather was born to Spanish parents. -- Anen87 ( talk) 22:35, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
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Letizia Ortiz was born in Oviedo in 1972. At the time of her birth, Spain was under the dictatorship of Francisco Franco and its official name was the Kingdom of Spain (like today, only the polity was fundamentally different and the head of state was not a monarch). Given the political upheaval and emergence of several 'Spanish' polities (Republic, dictatorship, constitutional monarchy etc.) across the twentieth century, and in the interest of historical fact and accuracy, it would be prudent to have an underlying link directing to the Francoist Spain page on her place of birth. In other words, the Spain she was born in is not constitutionally the same as the post-1975 Spain she is queen consort of today.
Some have argued that this is wrong - that historical 'time periods' should not feature in this respect. However, as a riposte to their refusal to reach consensus, I point to the Wikipedia page for Adolf Hitler. This details his place of death as 'Nazi Germany', however, this was never the official name of Germany. In fact, during the Nazi period, Germany continued to use the same official name as the Weimar Republic, the 'German Reich'. There is, therefore, inconsistency across Wikipedia's articles.
As a point of comparison, the articles of numerous historical and contemporary personalities on Wikipedia detail their places of birth as states that are no longer in existence today. The pages for Letizia's parents-in-law are an excellent example of such practice. This, I believe, is right and historically accurate. It enriches the general information about the person and provides the reader with convenient historical context. 195.147.250.224 ( talk) 18:21, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
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Should "heir presumptive" be "heiress presumptive"? If not, why not? Paul Magnussen ( talk) 15:40, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
She is undoubtedly Catholic, but I can't prove it. All the gossip columns gush about her not requiring a declaration of nullity before her Catholic marriage. The way this is possible is if she had been a baptized Catholic at the time of her first attempt at marriage. If she had been non-Catholic, then an investigation would have been required, and possibly a declaration of nullity would have been issued then. But until we find an article or book that asserts her Catholic status, no categories can apply. Elizium23 ( talk) 05:57, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
Should the intro to this article begin with Queen Letizia of Spain & the infobox heading be Letizia? or not. GoodDay ( talk) 21:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
If the trend continues towards no? I'll have to make changes to the intros & infoboxes of all the other current consort bios. See the consorts in Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Monaco, etc. GoodDay ( talk) 14:31, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Idealigic:, @ Vici Vidi: & @ AnomalousAtom:, should we then open an RM on this article. If the article is wrongly named? GoodDay ( talk) 14:23, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
The opening sentence of the article is wrong as Queen Letizia is not the "Queen of Spain". Under Royal Decree 1368/1987, which regulates the titles of the Spanish RF, "Queen of Spain" is a title reserved for reigning queens only. I don't understand why the sentence is not simply changed to "Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano is the queen consort of Spain as the wife of King Felipe VI". Note that "queen consort" in the proposed sentence is not a legal title (Letizia's only legal title in Spain is "Queen"), but rather a generic qualifier for her position in English (like saying that Charles, Prince of Wales, is the "heir apparent" to the thrones of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth realms). 2804:14C:165:8EC3:C0FA:D446:67A:7BB ( talk) 11:01, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Great grandparent was a Peninsulares / Criollo people, a term used in Spanish colonial times in the Philippines, for pure white Spaniards born in their colony of the Philippines. This means her great grandmother was a "White Filipina" born to pure White Spanish parents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.141.129.201 ( talk) 12:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC)