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"Quebec Nationalism" or "Quebec nationalism"? I'm thinking the latter. "Quebecois nationalism" may be even better. -- stewacide
Lower case would be better, yes. "Quebecois nationalism" would not be appropriate because, if in French "Québécois" simply means an inhabitant of Québec, in the English language it seems it refers to the French language culture of Quebec, not the whole of Quebec. Since "Quebecan nationalism", "Quebecian nationalism", or "Quebecer nationalism" either don't exist or sound improper, " Quebec nationalism" is the only choice left. This is how it is referred to in English. -- Mathieugp
Maybe we can link to other pages dealing with the First Nations and Canadian nationalism? -- Mathieugp
p.s. you should have moved the talk page with the article.
Why is Quebec nationalism a word used for other places too? "is the subject of many international studies together with the contemporary nationalism of Scotland, Catalonia and other non-sovereign regions of the world." I think this sentence needs to be changed. -- a.n.o.n.y.m t 20:15, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Shouldnt the many criticism of Quebecois nationalist theory be added as well. Many anti-nationalists in Quebec who support the theory of multiculturalism argue that Quebec is just as divisible as Canada when it comes to language and ethnicity. If Quebec is a nation, than what about the Eastern Townships and West Mount with an English speaking tradition and British heritage centuries old, or the Mohawk and Innu of northern Quebec who most certainly do not see themselves as Quebecois either??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.115.97.241 ( talk • contribs)
The tone, the wording, the general course of the article strikes me as unencyclopedic. I don't know anything about Quebec though so while this should be rewritten, I'm not the one to do it Jztinfinity 08:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC) You are right. It is very biased, the person who wrote is obviously a nationalist —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.157.214.92 ( talk) 05:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
The article starts with : Canada was first a French colony What about the indigenous people before 1534? Canada was not first a French colony, it was a territory with its own inhabitants with their habits and traditions. The French came after and colonized a territory that was already inhabited. This is a big error to start an article with. Many quebecois nationalists like to think the French were there first, so they can claim Quebec as their country. Unfortunately, what many of them seem to forget is that the British did to the French what the French did to the indigenous people, that is to take away from them a land they controlled.(The person who wrote that clearly doesn't know anything about Canadian history. The French didn't take the native's territory, they had no intention to take their land. They simply lived on the lands the natives allowed them to live on, and treated the natives as trading partner, not as conquered people. Champlain himself told the natives : Our men will marry your women and we will become one people.) So basing nationalism on the idea that French were there first (before the British) is a big mistake. Claiming a country on the fact that French colons were the first inhabitants of Quebec, is also a big mistake. Modern Quebec is not the legacy of some French colonialists. It is the result, or the fruit of many invasions and imigration, starting with the indigenous tribes wars bringing together tribes from many places in North America, then the French and British invasions, the immigration from Europe (Britain, Ireland, China, Germany, Italy, Poland, Ukraine, etc) in the 19th century and the modern immigration from all over the world. 96.23.204.67 ( talk) 03:33, 10 January 2011 (UTC)Jose 96.23.204.67 ( talk) 03:33, 10 January 2011 (UTC) I agree entirely. The use of "non-sovereign region" in the introduction is unencyclopedic as it implies that sovereignty is something that Quebec has been denied, yet lays claim to, which is false. Also, there was no clarification of the Quebec nationalism movement as one that is also within a very small part of English Canada as there is a minority of Anglophone Canadians who have supported the movement from time to time. When the British Conquest of the 1760's is discussed, there is no reference to the 7 Years War, or the fact that France voluntarily surrendered Canada in favour of Guadeloupe at the Treaty of Paris, or the highly influential and controversial Quebec Act. I have cited these three issues with a footnote to the Blackwell Encyclopedia. Others include references to post-1960 Quebec nationalist movements in the section concerned with 1534-1760! What's more, in the discussion of the contemporary debate, there is a noticeable lack of sources for such a complex and ever-changing issue. I have tried to rectify some of these flaws, but encourage others (who aren't editorializing with an obvious agenda) to provide more objective, historically accurate, and well documented editing to other parts of the article which may be lacking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.202.11.139 ( talk) 01:10, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Citing the Quebec Sovereignty movement as the main article relating to contemporary Quebec nationalism is inappropriate as Quebec nationalism exceeds much more than simply the discussion of sovereignty. As far as the Quebec Act goes, the Colonial administrators of the time viewed it as an extreme failure with the Thirteen Colonies but a slight success with Quebec, so I agree with you. I tried to clarify that with a couple edits. Also, the Treaty of Paris rhetoric needed to be toned down. It's a strange article, with bias from both sides. Also, I think we can all agree that Quebec nationalism is not second to civil war and ongoing military conflict in regards to the diversity of opinion... let's not try to inflate the importance of our little article too much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guevaira ( talk • contribs) 19:02, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
The section on Contemporary Québec Nationalism link to "Québec Sovereingty Movement" as its main article. This is highly inaccurate ; Québec nationalisms exist outside and beyond the independance divide. (Or, in other words, nearly all independantists are nationalists, but many nationalists aren't independantists)
First of all "Anglophone Canadian nationalism"? I think most Francophones outside of Quebec share the same Canadian nationalistic sentiment and there are still (believe it or not) many Francophones in Quebec who see themselves as being Canadian! So I do not think that Canadian Nationalism should be described as being strictly "Anglophone", because it is not.
Also when it came to the argument of Quebec nationalism being ethnic oriented as opposed to territorial I felt that again far too much POV dominated the presented thesis. The fact that study after study has shown that the vast majority of non-Francophones in Quebec, groups whose roots in the province go back just as far as the Francophones do not see themselves as being part of a Quebecois nation was ignored. So I made reference to it of course.
"There is little doubt, at least, that the post-1950s era witnessed a remarkable awakening of Quebecers' self-identity. The rural, conservative and Catholic Province of Quebec of the 19th and early 20th centuries has given way to a confident, cosmopolitan society that has many of the attributes of a modern nation. Regardless of their political leanings, Quebecers have come to see themselves as a unique people with a culture worth preserving. In recent years, however, this has often manifested in the reasonable accommodation debate, even or especially at official levels"
This seems like a huge amount of POV, but I'm not sure how it could be edited to sound less biased, or too at least make it clear that while Quebec's society has changed dramatically over the last half century (as has Ontario's, Newfoundland's, even Saskatchewan's, not too mention Canada in general) the idea that the geographic province of Quebec stretching from the Bay of Gaspe to the Arctic Coast constitutes a nation is not shared by everyone in the province itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.115.85.176 ( talk • contribs)
While there is an appropriate bibliography listed, the footnotes within the text don't link to anywhere, and it is unclear where particular facts are referenced from. Better referencing may assist in reducing POV/bias issues discussed above? Helgz ( talk) 03:58, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
In the article, I stumbled upon "In recent years, however, this ethnocentrism has often been manifested in the "Charter of Quebec Values" debate, especially at official levels."
The idea that the said Charter ought to be ethnocentrism is maybe almost unanimous amongst anglophones, it doesn't mean it's neutral. A lot of supporters of said Charter were refering to the French laïcité, that is more universalist in the opinion of its promoters rather than ethnocentrist. The wording should avoid seeming like taking an opinion.
A glimpse about the difference of point of view : http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/08/29/jackson-doughart-secularisms-two-solitudes/
-- ThoMiCroN ( talk) 02:49, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
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Please clarify,
There are several occurrences when nationalism is described as ethically based. Don’t you mean ethnically? Sir John Falstaff ( talk) 18:18, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
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"Quebec Nationalism" or "Quebec nationalism"? I'm thinking the latter. "Quebecois nationalism" may be even better. -- stewacide
Lower case would be better, yes. "Quebecois nationalism" would not be appropriate because, if in French "Québécois" simply means an inhabitant of Québec, in the English language it seems it refers to the French language culture of Quebec, not the whole of Quebec. Since "Quebecan nationalism", "Quebecian nationalism", or "Quebecer nationalism" either don't exist or sound improper, " Quebec nationalism" is the only choice left. This is how it is referred to in English. -- Mathieugp
Maybe we can link to other pages dealing with the First Nations and Canadian nationalism? -- Mathieugp
p.s. you should have moved the talk page with the article.
Why is Quebec nationalism a word used for other places too? "is the subject of many international studies together with the contemporary nationalism of Scotland, Catalonia and other non-sovereign regions of the world." I think this sentence needs to be changed. -- a.n.o.n.y.m t 20:15, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Shouldnt the many criticism of Quebecois nationalist theory be added as well. Many anti-nationalists in Quebec who support the theory of multiculturalism argue that Quebec is just as divisible as Canada when it comes to language and ethnicity. If Quebec is a nation, than what about the Eastern Townships and West Mount with an English speaking tradition and British heritage centuries old, or the Mohawk and Innu of northern Quebec who most certainly do not see themselves as Quebecois either??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.115.97.241 ( talk • contribs)
The tone, the wording, the general course of the article strikes me as unencyclopedic. I don't know anything about Quebec though so while this should be rewritten, I'm not the one to do it Jztinfinity 08:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC) You are right. It is very biased, the person who wrote is obviously a nationalist —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.157.214.92 ( talk) 05:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
The article starts with : Canada was first a French colony What about the indigenous people before 1534? Canada was not first a French colony, it was a territory with its own inhabitants with their habits and traditions. The French came after and colonized a territory that was already inhabited. This is a big error to start an article with. Many quebecois nationalists like to think the French were there first, so they can claim Quebec as their country. Unfortunately, what many of them seem to forget is that the British did to the French what the French did to the indigenous people, that is to take away from them a land they controlled.(The person who wrote that clearly doesn't know anything about Canadian history. The French didn't take the native's territory, they had no intention to take their land. They simply lived on the lands the natives allowed them to live on, and treated the natives as trading partner, not as conquered people. Champlain himself told the natives : Our men will marry your women and we will become one people.) So basing nationalism on the idea that French were there first (before the British) is a big mistake. Claiming a country on the fact that French colons were the first inhabitants of Quebec, is also a big mistake. Modern Quebec is not the legacy of some French colonialists. It is the result, or the fruit of many invasions and imigration, starting with the indigenous tribes wars bringing together tribes from many places in North America, then the French and British invasions, the immigration from Europe (Britain, Ireland, China, Germany, Italy, Poland, Ukraine, etc) in the 19th century and the modern immigration from all over the world. 96.23.204.67 ( talk) 03:33, 10 January 2011 (UTC)Jose 96.23.204.67 ( talk) 03:33, 10 January 2011 (UTC) I agree entirely. The use of "non-sovereign region" in the introduction is unencyclopedic as it implies that sovereignty is something that Quebec has been denied, yet lays claim to, which is false. Also, there was no clarification of the Quebec nationalism movement as one that is also within a very small part of English Canada as there is a minority of Anglophone Canadians who have supported the movement from time to time. When the British Conquest of the 1760's is discussed, there is no reference to the 7 Years War, or the fact that France voluntarily surrendered Canada in favour of Guadeloupe at the Treaty of Paris, or the highly influential and controversial Quebec Act. I have cited these three issues with a footnote to the Blackwell Encyclopedia. Others include references to post-1960 Quebec nationalist movements in the section concerned with 1534-1760! What's more, in the discussion of the contemporary debate, there is a noticeable lack of sources for such a complex and ever-changing issue. I have tried to rectify some of these flaws, but encourage others (who aren't editorializing with an obvious agenda) to provide more objective, historically accurate, and well documented editing to other parts of the article which may be lacking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.202.11.139 ( talk) 01:10, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Citing the Quebec Sovereignty movement as the main article relating to contemporary Quebec nationalism is inappropriate as Quebec nationalism exceeds much more than simply the discussion of sovereignty. As far as the Quebec Act goes, the Colonial administrators of the time viewed it as an extreme failure with the Thirteen Colonies but a slight success with Quebec, so I agree with you. I tried to clarify that with a couple edits. Also, the Treaty of Paris rhetoric needed to be toned down. It's a strange article, with bias from both sides. Also, I think we can all agree that Quebec nationalism is not second to civil war and ongoing military conflict in regards to the diversity of opinion... let's not try to inflate the importance of our little article too much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guevaira ( talk • contribs) 19:02, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
The section on Contemporary Québec Nationalism link to "Québec Sovereingty Movement" as its main article. This is highly inaccurate ; Québec nationalisms exist outside and beyond the independance divide. (Or, in other words, nearly all independantists are nationalists, but many nationalists aren't independantists)
First of all "Anglophone Canadian nationalism"? I think most Francophones outside of Quebec share the same Canadian nationalistic sentiment and there are still (believe it or not) many Francophones in Quebec who see themselves as being Canadian! So I do not think that Canadian Nationalism should be described as being strictly "Anglophone", because it is not.
Also when it came to the argument of Quebec nationalism being ethnic oriented as opposed to territorial I felt that again far too much POV dominated the presented thesis. The fact that study after study has shown that the vast majority of non-Francophones in Quebec, groups whose roots in the province go back just as far as the Francophones do not see themselves as being part of a Quebecois nation was ignored. So I made reference to it of course.
"There is little doubt, at least, that the post-1950s era witnessed a remarkable awakening of Quebecers' self-identity. The rural, conservative and Catholic Province of Quebec of the 19th and early 20th centuries has given way to a confident, cosmopolitan society that has many of the attributes of a modern nation. Regardless of their political leanings, Quebecers have come to see themselves as a unique people with a culture worth preserving. In recent years, however, this has often manifested in the reasonable accommodation debate, even or especially at official levels"
This seems like a huge amount of POV, but I'm not sure how it could be edited to sound less biased, or too at least make it clear that while Quebec's society has changed dramatically over the last half century (as has Ontario's, Newfoundland's, even Saskatchewan's, not too mention Canada in general) the idea that the geographic province of Quebec stretching from the Bay of Gaspe to the Arctic Coast constitutes a nation is not shared by everyone in the province itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.115.85.176 ( talk • contribs)
While there is an appropriate bibliography listed, the footnotes within the text don't link to anywhere, and it is unclear where particular facts are referenced from. Better referencing may assist in reducing POV/bias issues discussed above? Helgz ( talk) 03:58, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
In the article, I stumbled upon "In recent years, however, this ethnocentrism has often been manifested in the "Charter of Quebec Values" debate, especially at official levels."
The idea that the said Charter ought to be ethnocentrism is maybe almost unanimous amongst anglophones, it doesn't mean it's neutral. A lot of supporters of said Charter were refering to the French laïcité, that is more universalist in the opinion of its promoters rather than ethnocentrist. The wording should avoid seeming like taking an opinion.
A glimpse about the difference of point of view : http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/08/29/jackson-doughart-secularisms-two-solitudes/
-- ThoMiCroN ( talk) 02:49, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
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Please clarify,
There are several occurrences when nationalism is described as ethically based. Don’t you mean ethnically? Sir John Falstaff ( talk) 18:18, 25 July 2021 (UTC)