This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The Qahtanis indeed formed Saba
Yom 23:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Why are they in the Qahtan article. (I didn't want to edit, until I figure out if there is a reason for including them in the Qahtan article. They are unrelated, even if they came from the South it was from a Pre Qahtan Semitic Migration, Just like the rest of the Semites. Qahtan mainly remained in South Arabia until the Kahlan migrations in the 3rd century. Any migrations before the 3rd century are minor and were assimilated to the North Semitic culutres. The early Semitic migrations of the 3rd Mellenia were before Qahtan existed. Which according to Arab geneology was Seperated 40 generation from Ismail and 80 generations from Adnan so thats around the 23rd century BC. -- Skatewalk 01:04, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
The Nabateans comes from Qidar-- Alameer 10:31, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
I am still not sure about removing the nabateans, because:
Although Qidar was not Adnani (He was still came after Ismail). Ismail lived among the Qahtani tribe Jurhum. Eventualy Ismail's lineage became the cheifs of Jurhum.
The Question is, Did Qidar go to the North by himself or as a leader of a portion of Jurhum?
If he went to the North as a leader of Jurhum, doesn't that make them Qahtani? And I read alot about teh Nabateans, no one knew their true origin. All we know is that they spoke North Arabic derived of Aramiac.(at that time the whole neareast spoke Aramiac at variant dialects so the language is not agood indicator, other than its gradual shift into Arabic (Migration influence?)-- Skatewalk 09:52, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
This article is more fiction than fact!-- Xevorim ( talk) 11:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Thats your opinion. If you don't like biblical history then just leave. Akmal94 ( talk) 01:50, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
This article uses the terms "Arab" and "Arabic". However, Yemen was not Arabic-speaking until like 11th century CE. YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII ( talk) 21:45, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Qahtanite. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:33, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
The sentence was removed "Genetic distinctions between the historically nomadic people of the Northern/Central Arabian peninsula and the sedentary people of the South are attributed to the early Islamic conquests." The source attached to it [1] makes no claim or indication that the advent of Islam attributed to the genetic distinction between north or central and south Arabians. CaliphoShah ( talk) 12:31, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
The article says that Qahtanites are sons of Ishmael but that's not true Qahtanites are older than Ishmael if you checked Jurhum you would see that it's a Qahtanite tribe which Ishmael married from and Ishmael's descendents are the Hashemites and Ishmaelites not Qahtanites. SharabSalam ( talk) 05:11, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
I will remove this part since references and sources dont work "but Joktan had 13 sons and Qahtan had 24 sons. So with this point Qahtan was another descendant of Ishmael and not the Joktan of the Hebrew Bible.[4][5]"
Also for inaccuracy since second Jurhum is descended from Qahtan and Ishmael married from them SharabSalam ( talk) 04:51, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
Hi Mr Emir of Wikipedia... First the sources aren't working and the source from encyclopedia doesn't exist you can check them.. second the conclusion is that because Qahtan had more sons than Joktan therefore Qahtan isn't Joktan and because of that Qahtan is descended from Ishmeal is an irrelevant conclusion made up by the editor who wrote it and the biblical narrative is worthless in Arab history while the article is talking about an Arabian semi-legendary character, thank you. SharabSalam ( talk) 10:39, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
The links do not work and I see that there is a source from Maalouf, Tony. Arabs in the Shadow of Israel: The Unfolding of God's Prophetic Plan for Ishmael's Line. Kregel Academic. p. 45. I have checked that source and it does not say that "Qahtan isn't Joktan because Joktan has less sons than Qahtan and therefore Qahtan is descended from Ishmeal" and yes it says that Qahtan is descended from Ishmeal but that first statement isn't included in the source. Other thing that when I have time I am going to add a contrary information from other reliable sources that Qahtan isn't descended from Ishmael since Ishmael himself married from a Qahtanite women from the second Jurhum tribe [1] , [2] . There are numerous of sources that says the same so I think what Tony Maalouf wrote is just his opinion and it does not reflect the opinion of the vaste majority of historians. I think the statement should be rephrased in a way that shows that its not the pupolar believe and it's most likely to not be true as I mentioned why... SharabSalam ( talk) 12:41, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
The book is in Google for free [3] and I am going to presume good faith and not to think that the editor who added that statement made it offline for a reason, anyway, the author isn't even well-known and his name suggest that he is an Arab I have done a research about his biography and I found none about him, my point is that the statement that is in this article obviously shows that what "Mr. Tony" said is a fact and its acceptable by many historians while it's not and it contradicts what many historians believe so I suggest rephrase it in order to make Wikipedia more accurate. Thank you. SharabSalam ( talk) 13:07, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
@@ Emir of Wikipedia: it seems that what I said went through your head the editor said
Early Islamic historians identified Qahtan with the Yoqtan (Joktan) son of Eber Of the Hebrew Bible(Gen. 10:25-29), but Joktan had 13 sons and Qahtan had 24 sons. So with this point Qahtan was another descendant of Ishmael and not the Joktan of the Hebrew Bible.[4][5]
First he said that because Qahtan has more sons than Joktan then Joktan isn't Qahtan which is not what is written in the source. Second he gave an impression that this claim is the truth and he didn't say its just a claim based on one reference and he didn't mention who told that claim which is "Montgomery" and I think that Mr.Tony was referring to David Montgomery. The reason why thats important to be mentioned is not insult many historians who disagree with that claim and even Arabs who disagree with that claim so again I suggest to reform that statement and to make it obvious that its just a claim as they mention that Qahtan is Joktan is also a claim by "Early Islamic historians" even though I have seen many modern historians claiming that Qahtan is Joktan and BTW the author name is Tony Maalouf this is why I said he is an Arab because Maalouf is an Arab family surname and he isn't even well-known in the Arab world as a person rather than a Historian SharabSalam ( talk) 15:19, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
Even that claim by Mr.Tony Maalouf contradicts the story of Ishmael son of Abraham who married from the second Jurhum tribe which is a Qahtanite tribe so how come Qahtanites are the descendents of Ishmael while Ishmael himself married from a Qahtanite tribe?! I think thats worth mentioning and as I said I am going to add that with several sources and references SharabSalam ( talk) 15:38, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
Hi, can someone please explain what the template parameter of location refers to? Does it refer to where the tribe is originally from or where the tribe is located? SharabSalam ( talk) 00:01, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
@ SharabSalam: : How is this AUP source not "scholarly" ?---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 22:39, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
All of Arab historians like Al-Tabari and Ibn Hisham. [6] they are historians and he is not a historian and came to demolish what they said also you didnt address the undue weight problem. I have tried to fix in 2018 but got reverted for no valid reason-- SharabSalam ( talk) 00:03, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
Eschewing “dogmatic statements based on mere descriptive evidence and insufficient craniological evidence,” [‘Abbas ‘Ammar] rejected the loose use of terms such as “Arab” or “Semite,” especially when used to indicate homogeneous racial types.“ Instead, relying heavily on Arabic sources—notably, the work of Arab historians and genealogists—he concurred with their traditional distinction between the Southern Qahtanite and Northern Adnanite types, finding anthropometric corroboration for this classification. [7]
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The Qahtanis indeed formed Saba
Yom 23:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Why are they in the Qahtan article. (I didn't want to edit, until I figure out if there is a reason for including them in the Qahtan article. They are unrelated, even if they came from the South it was from a Pre Qahtan Semitic Migration, Just like the rest of the Semites. Qahtan mainly remained in South Arabia until the Kahlan migrations in the 3rd century. Any migrations before the 3rd century are minor and were assimilated to the North Semitic culutres. The early Semitic migrations of the 3rd Mellenia were before Qahtan existed. Which according to Arab geneology was Seperated 40 generation from Ismail and 80 generations from Adnan so thats around the 23rd century BC. -- Skatewalk 01:04, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
The Nabateans comes from Qidar-- Alameer 10:31, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
I am still not sure about removing the nabateans, because:
Although Qidar was not Adnani (He was still came after Ismail). Ismail lived among the Qahtani tribe Jurhum. Eventualy Ismail's lineage became the cheifs of Jurhum.
The Question is, Did Qidar go to the North by himself or as a leader of a portion of Jurhum?
If he went to the North as a leader of Jurhum, doesn't that make them Qahtani? And I read alot about teh Nabateans, no one knew their true origin. All we know is that they spoke North Arabic derived of Aramiac.(at that time the whole neareast spoke Aramiac at variant dialects so the language is not agood indicator, other than its gradual shift into Arabic (Migration influence?)-- Skatewalk 09:52, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
This article is more fiction than fact!-- Xevorim ( talk) 11:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Thats your opinion. If you don't like biblical history then just leave. Akmal94 ( talk) 01:50, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
This article uses the terms "Arab" and "Arabic". However, Yemen was not Arabic-speaking until like 11th century CE. YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII ( talk) 21:45, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Qahtanite. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:33, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
The sentence was removed "Genetic distinctions between the historically nomadic people of the Northern/Central Arabian peninsula and the sedentary people of the South are attributed to the early Islamic conquests." The source attached to it [1] makes no claim or indication that the advent of Islam attributed to the genetic distinction between north or central and south Arabians. CaliphoShah ( talk) 12:31, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
The article says that Qahtanites are sons of Ishmael but that's not true Qahtanites are older than Ishmael if you checked Jurhum you would see that it's a Qahtanite tribe which Ishmael married from and Ishmael's descendents are the Hashemites and Ishmaelites not Qahtanites. SharabSalam ( talk) 05:11, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
I will remove this part since references and sources dont work "but Joktan had 13 sons and Qahtan had 24 sons. So with this point Qahtan was another descendant of Ishmael and not the Joktan of the Hebrew Bible.[4][5]"
Also for inaccuracy since second Jurhum is descended from Qahtan and Ishmael married from them SharabSalam ( talk) 04:51, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
Hi Mr Emir of Wikipedia... First the sources aren't working and the source from encyclopedia doesn't exist you can check them.. second the conclusion is that because Qahtan had more sons than Joktan therefore Qahtan isn't Joktan and because of that Qahtan is descended from Ishmeal is an irrelevant conclusion made up by the editor who wrote it and the biblical narrative is worthless in Arab history while the article is talking about an Arabian semi-legendary character, thank you. SharabSalam ( talk) 10:39, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
The links do not work and I see that there is a source from Maalouf, Tony. Arabs in the Shadow of Israel: The Unfolding of God's Prophetic Plan for Ishmael's Line. Kregel Academic. p. 45. I have checked that source and it does not say that "Qahtan isn't Joktan because Joktan has less sons than Qahtan and therefore Qahtan is descended from Ishmeal" and yes it says that Qahtan is descended from Ishmeal but that first statement isn't included in the source. Other thing that when I have time I am going to add a contrary information from other reliable sources that Qahtan isn't descended from Ishmael since Ishmael himself married from a Qahtanite women from the second Jurhum tribe [1] , [2] . There are numerous of sources that says the same so I think what Tony Maalouf wrote is just his opinion and it does not reflect the opinion of the vaste majority of historians. I think the statement should be rephrased in a way that shows that its not the pupolar believe and it's most likely to not be true as I mentioned why... SharabSalam ( talk) 12:41, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
The book is in Google for free [3] and I am going to presume good faith and not to think that the editor who added that statement made it offline for a reason, anyway, the author isn't even well-known and his name suggest that he is an Arab I have done a research about his biography and I found none about him, my point is that the statement that is in this article obviously shows that what "Mr. Tony" said is a fact and its acceptable by many historians while it's not and it contradicts what many historians believe so I suggest rephrase it in order to make Wikipedia more accurate. Thank you. SharabSalam ( talk) 13:07, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
@@ Emir of Wikipedia: it seems that what I said went through your head the editor said
Early Islamic historians identified Qahtan with the Yoqtan (Joktan) son of Eber Of the Hebrew Bible(Gen. 10:25-29), but Joktan had 13 sons and Qahtan had 24 sons. So with this point Qahtan was another descendant of Ishmael and not the Joktan of the Hebrew Bible.[4][5]
First he said that because Qahtan has more sons than Joktan then Joktan isn't Qahtan which is not what is written in the source. Second he gave an impression that this claim is the truth and he didn't say its just a claim based on one reference and he didn't mention who told that claim which is "Montgomery" and I think that Mr.Tony was referring to David Montgomery. The reason why thats important to be mentioned is not insult many historians who disagree with that claim and even Arabs who disagree with that claim so again I suggest to reform that statement and to make it obvious that its just a claim as they mention that Qahtan is Joktan is also a claim by "Early Islamic historians" even though I have seen many modern historians claiming that Qahtan is Joktan and BTW the author name is Tony Maalouf this is why I said he is an Arab because Maalouf is an Arab family surname and he isn't even well-known in the Arab world as a person rather than a Historian SharabSalam ( talk) 15:19, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
Even that claim by Mr.Tony Maalouf contradicts the story of Ishmael son of Abraham who married from the second Jurhum tribe which is a Qahtanite tribe so how come Qahtanites are the descendents of Ishmael while Ishmael himself married from a Qahtanite tribe?! I think thats worth mentioning and as I said I am going to add that with several sources and references SharabSalam ( talk) 15:38, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
Hi, can someone please explain what the template parameter of location refers to? Does it refer to where the tribe is originally from or where the tribe is located? SharabSalam ( talk) 00:01, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
@ SharabSalam: : How is this AUP source not "scholarly" ?---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 22:39, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
All of Arab historians like Al-Tabari and Ibn Hisham. [6] they are historians and he is not a historian and came to demolish what they said also you didnt address the undue weight problem. I have tried to fix in 2018 but got reverted for no valid reason-- SharabSalam ( talk) 00:03, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
Eschewing “dogmatic statements based on mere descriptive evidence and insufficient craniological evidence,” [‘Abbas ‘Ammar] rejected the loose use of terms such as “Arab” or “Semite,” especially when used to indicate homogeneous racial types.“ Instead, relying heavily on Arabic sources—notably, the work of Arab historians and genealogists—he concurred with their traditional distinction between the Southern Qahtanite and Northern Adnanite types, finding anthropometric corroboration for this classification. [7]