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From when this is considered to be a derogatory word? I know ahmadi as "qadiani". I just discovered from wikipedia that there is a word called ahmadi. I have several qadiani friends. They never told that they are ahmadi, they always told that they are qadiani. In asia "ahmadi" is unknown word. I can bring my qadiani friends to talk about this in this encyclopedia. Ahmadikafirkabaccha ( talk) 12:17, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
If it was a slur why would the government label them this officially? Official government documents >>>>>> a solitary book which may or may not be reliable. Sakimonk talk 23:35, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
Official documents call them Qadiani in Pakistan Saudi Arabia Iran and many other countries.
It is a cult or a religion, it is called a sect by its followers. By no means calling it by the name of village of its founder is a slur. Christians were called Nazirits, was that a slur too 39.52.181.160 ( talk)
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Removal/Citation is needed for "As such, the majority of the Qadianis are Hindus, whilst a small number are Ahmadi Muslims and Christians."
The sentence begins with "As such" but it is a non sequitur really. Although the name might have etymologically originated from a town in India, the religious composition of current people of this persuasion need not be the same as that of the town, especially because it is a predominantly Pakistani community now, as the article claims.
If Qadianis consider themselves to be Ahmadiyya Muslims, they should be represented as Muslims on this page, or a citation provided to prove the contradictory claim. 204.28.124.24 ( talk) 04:39, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
@ Sirius86: I don't think that Qadiani nor Mirzai should be merged with Ahmadiyya. They are not alternative names for Ahmadiyya, and neither do they fulfil any of the reasons, as suggested in WP:Redirect, for merging. There are many religious and ethnic slurs. We don't just merge them into their respective pages. --Peace world 14:06, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
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The Article says that Most Qadianis or Ahmadies consist of Sikhs and Hindus, which is really agains the facts that, they consider themselves as Muslims, and they never claimed to be Sikhs or Hindus. You may say that most of them are from Punjab - other given statement is either untrue or it is put in a way giving understanding as if they are Sikhs or Hindus. Correction needed pls.
Nadeem2say ( talk) 02:45, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
This Article needs improvement per WP:SYN. SpyButeo ( talk) 16:24, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
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Qadiani are not Muslims. All believers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad are Non Muslim. They do not have any relation with Islam. Haris Qadree ( talk) 16:24, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
It should be kept in mind that Qadianis status of Non Muslim is also a Legal status decided through an open and fair debate in the National Assembly of Pakistan where Qadiani Leader had full and fair representation and fighting chance to prove their status. So Qadiani case shall not be taken like different Christian diversions as we don't see any legal resolution of who are considered Christian and who are not. Rehman Zahid ( talk) 10:00, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
In South Asia, Muslim sects were normally named after the city where they started their schools of theology. Ahmed Raza Khan was a Muslim theologian and his followers are called Barelvis since he was from the city of Bareilly. The Darul Uloom is a Muslim seminary and the followers seminary are called Deobandis since it is based in the city of Deoband. Mirza Ghulam started his teaching from the city of Qadian and his followers are called Qadianis. The Qadianis split into another sect which was based in city of Lahore and this Qadiani sect is known as Lahoris. This "Qadiani" term is not "pejorative" in South Asian context. In Pakistan, the Barelvi and Deobandi never complain about these terms used to refer to them. 2607:FEA8:4EE0:885:C543:62CC:DE0B:C576 ( talk) 02:46, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
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Since Qadiani is used as a derogatory term to refer to members of the Ahmadiyya Community, [1] make this concept of persecution/bigotry explicit as per the following edits.
Edit 1: Add the following to the "See also"
Edit 2: Expand the lede and add the following at the end of the statement which states that they are officially called Qadiani in Pakistani, make the FULL CONTEXT clear that PAKISTAN OFFICIALLY PERSECUTES them with bigoted anti quadiani laws, and pipe to appropriate persecution articles.
Replace the following:
While it is pejorative [2] to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, it is used in official Pakistani documents. [3]
with the following:
While it is pejorative [2] to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, it is used in official Pakistani documents, [3] and Pakistan officially persecutes Qadianis through the Second Amendment to the Constitution of Pakistan which declares that Ahmadia are not Muslims [4] and Ordinance XX which criminalises their religious practices and claims of being Muslims, [5] [6] to the extent that the fourth Ahmadiyya caliph Mirza Tahir Ahmad was compelled to leave Pakistan and move the headquarters of the Community to London during his years of exile. [7] [8] [9] Reason they are persecuted is because "Muslims consider Ghulam Ahmad a false prophet and all Muslim scholars consider Qadianis to be outside the fold of Islam." [10]
Edit3: As suggested by the previous editor, it makes sense to include the etymology/origin of the term Qadiani, some that was unknown to me previously. I am deliberately using non-Qadiani/Muslim INDPENDENT western sources.
Ahmadiyya are called Qadiani because their founder was from the city of Qadian in Punjab province of India, [10] [11]
Note: Feel free to rephrase as you deem fit, but do ensure it is done without diluting or whitewashing the bigotry. Thanks.
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edit semi-protected}}
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OhKayeSierra (
talk) 04:45, 24 January 2020 (UTC)References
58.182.172.95 ( talk) 19:28, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
Qadianis prefer to call them "Ahmadiyya Muslim" which is not correct and not acceptable by Muslims community as they are not Muslims and have no right to call themselves Muslim in any way. Even they shall not be allowed to use term "Ahmadiyya" as Ahmed was the name given by his mother to the Last Prophet، Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم ). Qadianis claim to be a Muslim sect is preposterous and false. The name of their False prophet was Ghulam Ahmed from Qadian. So either they should just be referred as Qadianis as Muslims prefer to call them. If they wish to relate the term to their prophet's name, then they may call themselves "Ghulami". Rehman Zahid ( talk) 09:55, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
Mirza’s tomb as stated on Hakam, a famous Qadiani website — Preceding unsigned comment added by Secretive lobbyist ( talk • contribs) 14:55, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Very right, so it means you have seen the definition of an “equivocation”. Equivocation means that the semantics (meaning of a term) can correspond to multiple definitions. You apparently are PhD in Linguistics, but do not know what equivocation is, and claimed my English is weak.
However, you incorrectly claim that the article mentions the fact that the tombstone of Mirza bears the epithet “Qadiani”. You have removed it, and it is not on the Wikipedia page, and you are currently successful to hide it. By the way, its not “a person” from Qadian, it is the tomb of Mirza himself.
The mere admission that “Qadiani” is an equivocation is sufficient justification for me to use the term Qadiani to refer to the “Ahmadi”. The Barelvi too identify as “Barelvi” and they refer to themselves as such. This has been requested by another user, but he too perhaps was given a tablet to wait by the “administrators". I wonder why are you trying to hide the fact from the Wikipedia page that Mirza’s tomb bears the demonym “Qadiani”. I am not sure if you realise, but this is precisely what we are debating : Qadiani is not necessarily a pejorative term. Therefore, I will use the term Qadiani to refer to ‘Ahmadis'.
I suppose with your admission that the term is an equivocation, may we proceed to edit the Wikipedia page that the term is in fact an equivocation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Secretive lobbyist ( talk • contribs) 15:27, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
There is, you just conceded to the equivocation in your earlier statement, and now you are lying like Mirza. I will refer to the group as the Qadiani, given that the founder of the faith is referred to the given title on his tombstone. I will now be referring the issue to relevant administrators, it is clear you have vested motives to hide the truth. I reiterate, I am not arguing the term is entirely positive , I am arguing it may or may not be used pejoratively, and am citing a very relevant reason to why it may not historically be, but you are very keen to hide the truth. -- cute_cat ( talk) 16:22, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
The term originates from Qadian, a small town in northern India, the birthplace of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the founder of the Ahmadiyya movement.
Wikipedia should remove the caliphate content from his channel because it's merged to the qadianism. In othe words they are not Muslim and out of the circle of Islam. Every Muslim knows who is the last prophet and who's are the past prophets and they strongly believe on the 4 caliphs. Rather than that there is no caliph either in islam, shiaism or in massehism. Qadianism is out of islam they are non Muslim. There is no categories in islam like they are saying these day's (ahmadi Muslim) What is this bull shitt muslim are Muslim either non Muslim. Who the hell are these middle man Muslims (ahmadi Muslim) they are non Muslims.
Specifically khilafat refers to the leadership of the Islamic community after the death of the Prophet. Simply, the Muslim community was to be headed by a pious and learned mail member of the Quraysh, the Prophet’s clan, who was to defend the land of Islam, enforce the law, appoint and supervise godly officers and judges, and to collect and distribute alms. From the assassination of the fourth caliph in 661 down to March 1924, when the last Ottoman caliph was dispatched on the night train to Paris, the universal caliphate operated for the most part in defiance of the model. Thus, a powerful strand in Islamic political thought held that the true Islamic caliphate did not outlast the first four caliphs. Nevertheless, such as the power of the idea of the universal Islamic caliphate that it continued to be invoked as a source of legitimacy right down to the modern era. 2001:16A2:E64F:3A00:417B:46F4:83C0:AA44 ( talk) 12:30, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Anupam and Kashmiri: Rekhta is an Urdu dictionary, an organisation who's purpose is to 'save' the Urdu language in India. This term is only attested in Urdu dictionaries [1], not Hindi dictionaries. The sense the word is used is unique to Urdu as well. HolyArtThou ( talk) 19:46, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
It's used in Hindi too. Hindi/Urdu has a shared vocabulary. This Aaj Tak Hindi news reel is an example where Qadiani / कादियानी is used in writing and in voice. [2] I would say that if HolyArtThou continues to demand its removal (despite the evidence that it's used regularly), all the scripts in this article should be removed to stop future edit warring. Or both can just stay as they have been. It's strange that HolyArtThou named this discussion "Qadiani is an Urdu word, not Hindi" but now says "I didn't say that 'Qadiani' wasn't a Hindi word either". Editorkamran ( talk) 20:10, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
@ DivineReality's edit of this page on 30th Mar 2024 changes the previous "While it is pejorative to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, it is used in official Pakistani documents" to "While it may feel pejorative to some of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, it is used in official Pakistani documents and by Sunni Muslims worldwide as a demonym."
This edit is only tagged with "added info about it being a demonym" - the edit from 'is' to 'may feel' is a clear attempt to justify the use of a word that has been established to be a slur on this page numerous times. Moreover, it isn't used as a demonym when being applied to Ahmadiyya Muslims who aren't from Qadian, making the edit irrelevant in the first place.
I don't want to engage in an edit war and wished to add this to the public ledger of disputes hence my posting here. Cosmothemoondog ( talk) 09:16, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
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From when this is considered to be a derogatory word? I know ahmadi as "qadiani". I just discovered from wikipedia that there is a word called ahmadi. I have several qadiani friends. They never told that they are ahmadi, they always told that they are qadiani. In asia "ahmadi" is unknown word. I can bring my qadiani friends to talk about this in this encyclopedia. Ahmadikafirkabaccha ( talk) 12:17, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
If it was a slur why would the government label them this officially? Official government documents >>>>>> a solitary book which may or may not be reliable. Sakimonk talk 23:35, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
Official documents call them Qadiani in Pakistan Saudi Arabia Iran and many other countries.
It is a cult or a religion, it is called a sect by its followers. By no means calling it by the name of village of its founder is a slur. Christians were called Nazirits, was that a slur too 39.52.181.160 ( talk)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Removal/Citation is needed for "As such, the majority of the Qadianis are Hindus, whilst a small number are Ahmadi Muslims and Christians."
The sentence begins with "As such" but it is a non sequitur really. Although the name might have etymologically originated from a town in India, the religious composition of current people of this persuasion need not be the same as that of the town, especially because it is a predominantly Pakistani community now, as the article claims.
If Qadianis consider themselves to be Ahmadiyya Muslims, they should be represented as Muslims on this page, or a citation provided to prove the contradictory claim. 204.28.124.24 ( talk) 04:39, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
@ Sirius86: I don't think that Qadiani nor Mirzai should be merged with Ahmadiyya. They are not alternative names for Ahmadiyya, and neither do they fulfil any of the reasons, as suggested in WP:Redirect, for merging. There are many religious and ethnic slurs. We don't just merge them into their respective pages. --Peace world 14:06, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The Article says that Most Qadianis or Ahmadies consist of Sikhs and Hindus, which is really agains the facts that, they consider themselves as Muslims, and they never claimed to be Sikhs or Hindus. You may say that most of them are from Punjab - other given statement is either untrue or it is put in a way giving understanding as if they are Sikhs or Hindus. Correction needed pls.
Nadeem2say ( talk) 02:45, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
This Article needs improvement per WP:SYN. SpyButeo ( talk) 16:24, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Qadiani are not Muslims. All believers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad are Non Muslim. They do not have any relation with Islam. Haris Qadree ( talk) 16:24, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
It should be kept in mind that Qadianis status of Non Muslim is also a Legal status decided through an open and fair debate in the National Assembly of Pakistan where Qadiani Leader had full and fair representation and fighting chance to prove their status. So Qadiani case shall not be taken like different Christian diversions as we don't see any legal resolution of who are considered Christian and who are not. Rehman Zahid ( talk) 10:00, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
In South Asia, Muslim sects were normally named after the city where they started their schools of theology. Ahmed Raza Khan was a Muslim theologian and his followers are called Barelvis since he was from the city of Bareilly. The Darul Uloom is a Muslim seminary and the followers seminary are called Deobandis since it is based in the city of Deoband. Mirza Ghulam started his teaching from the city of Qadian and his followers are called Qadianis. The Qadianis split into another sect which was based in city of Lahore and this Qadiani sect is known as Lahoris. This "Qadiani" term is not "pejorative" in South Asian context. In Pakistan, the Barelvi and Deobandi never complain about these terms used to refer to them. 2607:FEA8:4EE0:885:C543:62CC:DE0B:C576 ( talk) 02:46, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Since Qadiani is used as a derogatory term to refer to members of the Ahmadiyya Community, [1] make this concept of persecution/bigotry explicit as per the following edits.
Edit 1: Add the following to the "See also"
Edit 2: Expand the lede and add the following at the end of the statement which states that they are officially called Qadiani in Pakistani, make the FULL CONTEXT clear that PAKISTAN OFFICIALLY PERSECUTES them with bigoted anti quadiani laws, and pipe to appropriate persecution articles.
Replace the following:
While it is pejorative [2] to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, it is used in official Pakistani documents. [3]
with the following:
While it is pejorative [2] to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, it is used in official Pakistani documents, [3] and Pakistan officially persecutes Qadianis through the Second Amendment to the Constitution of Pakistan which declares that Ahmadia are not Muslims [4] and Ordinance XX which criminalises their religious practices and claims of being Muslims, [5] [6] to the extent that the fourth Ahmadiyya caliph Mirza Tahir Ahmad was compelled to leave Pakistan and move the headquarters of the Community to London during his years of exile. [7] [8] [9] Reason they are persecuted is because "Muslims consider Ghulam Ahmad a false prophet and all Muslim scholars consider Qadianis to be outside the fold of Islam." [10]
Edit3: As suggested by the previous editor, it makes sense to include the etymology/origin of the term Qadiani, some that was unknown to me previously. I am deliberately using non-Qadiani/Muslim INDPENDENT western sources.
Ahmadiyya are called Qadiani because their founder was from the city of Qadian in Punjab province of India, [10] [11]
Note: Feel free to rephrase as you deem fit, but do ensure it is done without diluting or whitewashing the bigotry. Thanks.
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template.
OhKayeSierra (
talk) 04:45, 24 January 2020 (UTC)References
58.182.172.95 ( talk) 19:28, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
Qadianis prefer to call them "Ahmadiyya Muslim" which is not correct and not acceptable by Muslims community as they are not Muslims and have no right to call themselves Muslim in any way. Even they shall not be allowed to use term "Ahmadiyya" as Ahmed was the name given by his mother to the Last Prophet، Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم ). Qadianis claim to be a Muslim sect is preposterous and false. The name of their False prophet was Ghulam Ahmed from Qadian. So either they should just be referred as Qadianis as Muslims prefer to call them. If they wish to relate the term to their prophet's name, then they may call themselves "Ghulami". Rehman Zahid ( talk) 09:55, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
Mirza’s tomb as stated on Hakam, a famous Qadiani website — Preceding unsigned comment added by Secretive lobbyist ( talk • contribs) 14:55, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Very right, so it means you have seen the definition of an “equivocation”. Equivocation means that the semantics (meaning of a term) can correspond to multiple definitions. You apparently are PhD in Linguistics, but do not know what equivocation is, and claimed my English is weak.
However, you incorrectly claim that the article mentions the fact that the tombstone of Mirza bears the epithet “Qadiani”. You have removed it, and it is not on the Wikipedia page, and you are currently successful to hide it. By the way, its not “a person” from Qadian, it is the tomb of Mirza himself.
The mere admission that “Qadiani” is an equivocation is sufficient justification for me to use the term Qadiani to refer to the “Ahmadi”. The Barelvi too identify as “Barelvi” and they refer to themselves as such. This has been requested by another user, but he too perhaps was given a tablet to wait by the “administrators". I wonder why are you trying to hide the fact from the Wikipedia page that Mirza’s tomb bears the demonym “Qadiani”. I am not sure if you realise, but this is precisely what we are debating : Qadiani is not necessarily a pejorative term. Therefore, I will use the term Qadiani to refer to ‘Ahmadis'.
I suppose with your admission that the term is an equivocation, may we proceed to edit the Wikipedia page that the term is in fact an equivocation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Secretive lobbyist ( talk • contribs) 15:27, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
There is, you just conceded to the equivocation in your earlier statement, and now you are lying like Mirza. I will refer to the group as the Qadiani, given that the founder of the faith is referred to the given title on his tombstone. I will now be referring the issue to relevant administrators, it is clear you have vested motives to hide the truth. I reiterate, I am not arguing the term is entirely positive , I am arguing it may or may not be used pejoratively, and am citing a very relevant reason to why it may not historically be, but you are very keen to hide the truth. -- cute_cat ( talk) 16:22, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
The term originates from Qadian, a small town in northern India, the birthplace of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the founder of the Ahmadiyya movement.
Wikipedia should remove the caliphate content from his channel because it's merged to the qadianism. In othe words they are not Muslim and out of the circle of Islam. Every Muslim knows who is the last prophet and who's are the past prophets and they strongly believe on the 4 caliphs. Rather than that there is no caliph either in islam, shiaism or in massehism. Qadianism is out of islam they are non Muslim. There is no categories in islam like they are saying these day's (ahmadi Muslim) What is this bull shitt muslim are Muslim either non Muslim. Who the hell are these middle man Muslims (ahmadi Muslim) they are non Muslims.
Specifically khilafat refers to the leadership of the Islamic community after the death of the Prophet. Simply, the Muslim community was to be headed by a pious and learned mail member of the Quraysh, the Prophet’s clan, who was to defend the land of Islam, enforce the law, appoint and supervise godly officers and judges, and to collect and distribute alms. From the assassination of the fourth caliph in 661 down to March 1924, when the last Ottoman caliph was dispatched on the night train to Paris, the universal caliphate operated for the most part in defiance of the model. Thus, a powerful strand in Islamic political thought held that the true Islamic caliphate did not outlast the first four caliphs. Nevertheless, such as the power of the idea of the universal Islamic caliphate that it continued to be invoked as a source of legitimacy right down to the modern era. 2001:16A2:E64F:3A00:417B:46F4:83C0:AA44 ( talk) 12:30, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Anupam and Kashmiri: Rekhta is an Urdu dictionary, an organisation who's purpose is to 'save' the Urdu language in India. This term is only attested in Urdu dictionaries [1], not Hindi dictionaries. The sense the word is used is unique to Urdu as well. HolyArtThou ( talk) 19:46, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
It's used in Hindi too. Hindi/Urdu has a shared vocabulary. This Aaj Tak Hindi news reel is an example where Qadiani / कादियानी is used in writing and in voice. [2] I would say that if HolyArtThou continues to demand its removal (despite the evidence that it's used regularly), all the scripts in this article should be removed to stop future edit warring. Or both can just stay as they have been. It's strange that HolyArtThou named this discussion "Qadiani is an Urdu word, not Hindi" but now says "I didn't say that 'Qadiani' wasn't a Hindi word either". Editorkamran ( talk) 20:10, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
@ DivineReality's edit of this page on 30th Mar 2024 changes the previous "While it is pejorative to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, it is used in official Pakistani documents" to "While it may feel pejorative to some of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, it is used in official Pakistani documents and by Sunni Muslims worldwide as a demonym."
This edit is only tagged with "added info about it being a demonym" - the edit from 'is' to 'may feel' is a clear attempt to justify the use of a word that has been established to be a slur on this page numerous times. Moreover, it isn't used as a demonym when being applied to Ahmadiyya Muslims who aren't from Qadian, making the edit irrelevant in the first place.
I don't want to engage in an edit war and wished to add this to the public ledger of disputes hence my posting here. Cosmothemoondog ( talk) 09:16, 2 April 2024 (UTC)