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Reviewer: Etriusus ( talk · contribs) 23:03, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
Oh boy, this is gonna be interesting. I'll be the sacrificial lamb for this GAN. Fair warning, due to the controversial nature of this article, it will likely be a lengthy review, and don't be surprised if I request a second or third opinion just to double-check our work. A cursory glance tells me the page is relatively stable (surprisingly) but I'll give it a more comprehensive look within the next few days.
Etriusus
23:03, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
Lead
Beliefs
Some of QAnon's claims have been described as antisemitic or rooted in antisemitic tropesThis is established later in the article and doesn't really fit with the rest of
the prose. Either move it to a more logical location or cut it.
the conspiracy theory began with an October 2017Why are we dipping into the origin? The beliefs section keeps bouncing between beliefs and the history of the organization. Ideally, a good chunk of this needs to be merged with the the Origin section.
@ Etriusus: I took a careful look at history. The article was stable, but it was significantly destabilized with this no-summary edit ( diff, January 22, 2022) which moved 90% of the lead to the body under h2 "Beliefs". Naming it "Beliefs" did not correspond sufficiently to the varied nature of the content. Also, there had already been a section title "Conspiracy claims" (i.e. beliefs) and the background, origin an spread content was also mostly about the beliefs – the lead content sectioned as "Beliefs" contained a summary thereof. That put the summary of the body in the body, leading to repetition and general confusion it seems.
Not a good edit. Not discussed, and it's as if it went unnoticed. GA should pause for a day or so until it can be seen if the lead should/can be restored and if subsequent edits can be saved. The lead had problems but it was much easier to trim it, than it is now to write a whole new lead (also likely leading to threefold repetition, which is difficult to assess on the go in a long article such as this). twsabin 00:47, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Based on everything written above, I think that the GA review can proceed (from scratch I guess [sad to see time was wasted {mine included}]) as if it had been nominated at this state. twsabin 02:29, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
@ AFreshStart: What a legend! I will add comments here and there when possible, and hopefully don't get mad in the process :) CactiStaccingCrane ( talk) 16:14, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
Add (/restore) a fifth paragraph to the lead which summarizes the incidents section. One sentence may be enough. A five-paragraph lead (but not six-paragraph, which was the starting state) is also MOS compliant. This is a complex, multifaceted, topic. An average person has difficulty grappling with this topic (personal opinion, from personal experience). A connection to concrete events in recent memory is helpful.
twsabin
19:54, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
I took the liberty of making some of the changes suggested by Etriusus :
I replaced "nefarious plot" with "worldwide cabal" (indeed, if it involves kidnapping and raping children, it is nefarious by implication so the adjective was unnecessary), removed "cool" and "essentially", replaced "8chan (later 8 kun)" by "8chan/8kun" and "Belief in QAnon theories" by "QAnon beliefs".
As for "ostensibly", it was I who wrote that word, precisely because I wished to avoid another occurence of "purportedly" (which is used a lot in the article).
Do as you please if it's too "big" a word.
In 'appealing possibility', maybe we could replace 'appealing' with 'rewarding' ? Psychloppos ( talk) 08:56, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Psychloppos:, @ AFreshStart:, and @ Twsabin:. Excellent work to everyone involved. I will be giving the article one final pass before signing off and passing the GA review. I didn't see anything glaring yesterday but I'm going to double-check. This has been hard-fought, and I want to commend the hard work everyone has put into this GA review.
Please don't place general comments in this section, place them above unless they are meant for article improvement
Refs
Images
Copyvio
Intro
Some of QAnon's claims..., either specify the claims or reword. The sentence is too vague.
(rebranded to 8kun in 2019)unnecessary, cut.
Background
material which said it was run by a Jewish New YorkSpecify what 'it' is.
On October 30, 2016,Sentence as a whole is clunky, run on, and I feel like there's an 'and' missing somewhere. Needs rework.
John Podesta'sWho? This comes from nowhere.
Origin
as "the calm before the storm"repetitive, needs rewording
The three then created...This is a bit run-on, also mention the community if its relevent
marked the conspiracy theory's entry into the mainstream.This contradicts the first sentence in the paragraph.
mirrored increasing radicalizationmirrored or coincided with? If it is mirrored reword to "has mirrored..".
Many Canadians have also propagated QAnonis there anything more to say on this?
According to an investigationrun on sentance
Claims
QAnon "drops" are often cryptic, vague, and impossible to verifyThe origin section makes an allusion to what a drop is but it's not specifically defined.
the essence of the conspiracy'has said' or 'has described' the essence..., reword
Identity of Q
Q did not have another means of communicationreword- Q did not have any other known (or verified) means of communication
This apparent conflict of interest,What conflict of interest? Sentance is run on and confusing, needs to be rewritten
Analysis
not only the end of the world...This reads like a quote but its not in quotations. May need rewording or attribution
although anti-Semitic references appeared in the first few tweetsrepetitive info, questionably NPOV
Appeal
Part of its appeal is its game-like quality,Is there an authority on this? Reads like OR.
Travis View, a researcher who studies QAnon...This is a great first sentence for the paragraph, move it upfront.
Some QAnon believers realize that they have been isolated from loved ones, and suffer loneliness. This leads some to abandon the beliefs, but for others reinforces the benefits of belonging to the cultThis is a POV nightmare, needs serious rewording.
Such a response to a failed prophecy..Reads like OR, who said this? I assume the psychologist later mentioned
This phenomenon is being seen among some QAnon believers.unnecessary, already implied
Incidents
The sovereign citizen movement developed this claimwas it just the sovereign citizens? Merge this with the preceding sentence
Reactions
another factor driving the intensity of this threatI feel like this warrants a bt more explanation
At a Trump reelection rallyDoes this qualify as FBI/terrorism? It may be in the wrong subsection
He told a reporter...Unnecessary, cut sentence
Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani...Did he play any larger role in this?
But merchandise relating to QAnoncombine this with the previous Etsy sentance. It strangely reads passive-aggressively as is.
Here are my notes now that the article has been given its first pass, all in all, excellent work to everyone involved in c/e and refining the page substantially. I didn't know 'anti-abortion' was an exception to WP:COMMONNAME it can remain as is then. I plan to get these out within the next day or so, its already apparent this pass will be a lot faster than the last one. Etriusus 23:53, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
Intro
Background
The compound has become..Be a bit clearer that this is the origin of the adrenochrome elixir idea.
Origin
Claims
As seen by QAnon followers....run on sentance
Belief in QAnon theories..CE this sentance
Analysis
QAnon follower Liz Crokin...run on sentance
Some Q followers became...Notable info? If yes, reword, it reads too casual.
Incidents
Reactions
This review will likely take a long time to both complete and to respond to. For the purposes of giving this topic the proper attention, I will be waving the 7 day time constraint (within reason of course). As suggestions are cleaned up, use the Done template, a
strikethrough, or some other means of indicating the recommendation is resolved.
Etriusus
02:41, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
@ AFreshStart:, following a herculean effort, the page has passed the GA review. I did some last-minute clean-up, feel free to check my work and revert anything you disagree with. This is still room for improvement (including a number of invisible templates for further expansion) but this is outside the scope of a GA review. Should the page get much larger, there will likely need to be a split. Etriusus 03:18, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
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Reviewing |
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visual edit |
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Reviewer: Etriusus ( talk · contribs) 23:03, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
Oh boy, this is gonna be interesting. I'll be the sacrificial lamb for this GAN. Fair warning, due to the controversial nature of this article, it will likely be a lengthy review, and don't be surprised if I request a second or third opinion just to double-check our work. A cursory glance tells me the page is relatively stable (surprisingly) but I'll give it a more comprehensive look within the next few days.
Etriusus
23:03, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
Lead
Beliefs
Some of QAnon's claims have been described as antisemitic or rooted in antisemitic tropesThis is established later in the article and doesn't really fit with the rest of
the prose. Either move it to a more logical location or cut it.
the conspiracy theory began with an October 2017Why are we dipping into the origin? The beliefs section keeps bouncing between beliefs and the history of the organization. Ideally, a good chunk of this needs to be merged with the the Origin section.
@ Etriusus: I took a careful look at history. The article was stable, but it was significantly destabilized with this no-summary edit ( diff, January 22, 2022) which moved 90% of the lead to the body under h2 "Beliefs". Naming it "Beliefs" did not correspond sufficiently to the varied nature of the content. Also, there had already been a section title "Conspiracy claims" (i.e. beliefs) and the background, origin an spread content was also mostly about the beliefs – the lead content sectioned as "Beliefs" contained a summary thereof. That put the summary of the body in the body, leading to repetition and general confusion it seems.
Not a good edit. Not discussed, and it's as if it went unnoticed. GA should pause for a day or so until it can be seen if the lead should/can be restored and if subsequent edits can be saved. The lead had problems but it was much easier to trim it, than it is now to write a whole new lead (also likely leading to threefold repetition, which is difficult to assess on the go in a long article such as this). twsabin 00:47, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Based on everything written above, I think that the GA review can proceed (from scratch I guess [sad to see time was wasted {mine included}]) as if it had been nominated at this state. twsabin 02:29, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
@ AFreshStart: What a legend! I will add comments here and there when possible, and hopefully don't get mad in the process :) CactiStaccingCrane ( talk) 16:14, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
Add (/restore) a fifth paragraph to the lead which summarizes the incidents section. One sentence may be enough. A five-paragraph lead (but not six-paragraph, which was the starting state) is also MOS compliant. This is a complex, multifaceted, topic. An average person has difficulty grappling with this topic (personal opinion, from personal experience). A connection to concrete events in recent memory is helpful.
twsabin
19:54, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
I took the liberty of making some of the changes suggested by Etriusus :
I replaced "nefarious plot" with "worldwide cabal" (indeed, if it involves kidnapping and raping children, it is nefarious by implication so the adjective was unnecessary), removed "cool" and "essentially", replaced "8chan (later 8 kun)" by "8chan/8kun" and "Belief in QAnon theories" by "QAnon beliefs".
As for "ostensibly", it was I who wrote that word, precisely because I wished to avoid another occurence of "purportedly" (which is used a lot in the article).
Do as you please if it's too "big" a word.
In 'appealing possibility', maybe we could replace 'appealing' with 'rewarding' ? Psychloppos ( talk) 08:56, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Psychloppos:, @ AFreshStart:, and @ Twsabin:. Excellent work to everyone involved. I will be giving the article one final pass before signing off and passing the GA review. I didn't see anything glaring yesterday but I'm going to double-check. This has been hard-fought, and I want to commend the hard work everyone has put into this GA review.
Please don't place general comments in this section, place them above unless they are meant for article improvement
Refs
Images
Copyvio
Intro
Some of QAnon's claims..., either specify the claims or reword. The sentence is too vague.
(rebranded to 8kun in 2019)unnecessary, cut.
Background
material which said it was run by a Jewish New YorkSpecify what 'it' is.
On October 30, 2016,Sentence as a whole is clunky, run on, and I feel like there's an 'and' missing somewhere. Needs rework.
John Podesta'sWho? This comes from nowhere.
Origin
as "the calm before the storm"repetitive, needs rewording
The three then created...This is a bit run-on, also mention the community if its relevent
marked the conspiracy theory's entry into the mainstream.This contradicts the first sentence in the paragraph.
mirrored increasing radicalizationmirrored or coincided with? If it is mirrored reword to "has mirrored..".
Many Canadians have also propagated QAnonis there anything more to say on this?
According to an investigationrun on sentance
Claims
QAnon "drops" are often cryptic, vague, and impossible to verifyThe origin section makes an allusion to what a drop is but it's not specifically defined.
the essence of the conspiracy'has said' or 'has described' the essence..., reword
Identity of Q
Q did not have another means of communicationreword- Q did not have any other known (or verified) means of communication
This apparent conflict of interest,What conflict of interest? Sentance is run on and confusing, needs to be rewritten
Analysis
not only the end of the world...This reads like a quote but its not in quotations. May need rewording or attribution
although anti-Semitic references appeared in the first few tweetsrepetitive info, questionably NPOV
Appeal
Part of its appeal is its game-like quality,Is there an authority on this? Reads like OR.
Travis View, a researcher who studies QAnon...This is a great first sentence for the paragraph, move it upfront.
Some QAnon believers realize that they have been isolated from loved ones, and suffer loneliness. This leads some to abandon the beliefs, but for others reinforces the benefits of belonging to the cultThis is a POV nightmare, needs serious rewording.
Such a response to a failed prophecy..Reads like OR, who said this? I assume the psychologist later mentioned
This phenomenon is being seen among some QAnon believers.unnecessary, already implied
Incidents
The sovereign citizen movement developed this claimwas it just the sovereign citizens? Merge this with the preceding sentence
Reactions
another factor driving the intensity of this threatI feel like this warrants a bt more explanation
At a Trump reelection rallyDoes this qualify as FBI/terrorism? It may be in the wrong subsection
He told a reporter...Unnecessary, cut sentence
Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani...Did he play any larger role in this?
But merchandise relating to QAnoncombine this with the previous Etsy sentance. It strangely reads passive-aggressively as is.
Here are my notes now that the article has been given its first pass, all in all, excellent work to everyone involved in c/e and refining the page substantially. I didn't know 'anti-abortion' was an exception to WP:COMMONNAME it can remain as is then. I plan to get these out within the next day or so, its already apparent this pass will be a lot faster than the last one. Etriusus 23:53, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
Intro
Background
The compound has become..Be a bit clearer that this is the origin of the adrenochrome elixir idea.
Origin
Claims
As seen by QAnon followers....run on sentance
Belief in QAnon theories..CE this sentance
Analysis
QAnon follower Liz Crokin...run on sentance
Some Q followers became...Notable info? If yes, reword, it reads too casual.
Incidents
Reactions
This review will likely take a long time to both complete and to respond to. For the purposes of giving this topic the proper attention, I will be waving the 7 day time constraint (within reason of course). As suggestions are cleaned up, use the Done template, a
strikethrough, or some other means of indicating the recommendation is resolved.
Etriusus
02:41, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
@ AFreshStart:, following a herculean effort, the page has passed the GA review. I did some last-minute clean-up, feel free to check my work and revert anything you disagree with. This is still room for improvement (including a number of invisible templates for further expansion) but this is outside the scope of a GA review. Should the page get much larger, there will likely need to be a split. Etriusus 03:18, 23 February 2022 (UTC)