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According to Guinness World Records the oldest snake was a 40 year-old Red-tailed Boa (Boa constrictor), so the age of 48 would make this species the World's longest-lived snake. I did some searches, and found out about a Ball Python that died at the reported age of 49 years 4 months in Philadelphia Zoo (the same zoo as the Guinness approved boa!). But I found no more details, such as date of death, or if this snake was named. Another source gave this species a maximum age of 28 years in captivity. Clearly this calls for further research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.221.220.31 ( talk) 23:28, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
My research indicates the same, noted with a citation needed. Perhaps should be removed until an actual source is available. Jhall1468 07:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
average longevity is about 20 years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JonM.D. ( talk • contribs) 11:22, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
In the ball python breeder community, lifespan is usually cited as 'up to 30 years', or '20 to 30 years', with the 48 year old or 49 year old record being mentioned in some cases. There is a lack of a reliable source for this information--most book authors simply go by the info provided by breeders for longevity. Scientific studies are lacking. The breeder estimate is probably the most accurate we have at the moment, and is better than nothing. Perhaps a note should be added that the longevity is an estimate. 68.13.83.50 ( talk) 03:07, 31 December 2009 (UTC)-- Winged_Wolf ( talk) 21:03, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
This is an old section, but somehow it's fresh again. There is currently an article circulating claiming that a 62 year old ball python has laid eggs. Several things should arouse suspicion: it cites a Mark Wanner, but this person has no existence prior to this article and has a linkedin that seems suspect as well. Also, the article mentions that ball pythons usually stop laying eggs before they are 60; given that Guinness cites a 42 year old boa as the oldest known snake, and the St Louis Zoo website does not mention a 60+ year old snake, I'm guessing we're looking at pure bunk. But before removing this from the article, please discuss. - Lvthn13 ( talk) 02:26, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
This article doesn't discuss whether this snake is poisonous or not. Is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.240.59.53 ( talk) 02:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Ball pythons, like all pythons, are constrictors (squeeze their prey to death) and do not have any venom what so ever. or do they....
As stated, constrictors are all nonvenomous and the article was updated to note that. Jhall1468 07:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
NOOOOOOO
the royal python is not poisonous, i own one.
definitely not poisonous -
1) it's a constrictor :P
2) if it was toxic at all, it would be venomous, not poisonous. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
BlooTannery (
talk •
contribs) 07:28, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
What kind of gallons are we talking about here? US gallons, UK gallons? dry gallon? Perhaps it would be better to use metric units. Same goes for temperature, it didnt specify at all, but I reckoned we were talking about Fahrenheit given the numbers, so I added that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.240.113.71 ( talk) 17:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
US gallons. In the US, many small pets are typically kept in aquariums, and aquariums here are usually measured by the volume of water they hold, instead of by their dimensions. Long, standard, and tall tanks have different dimensions. The correct tank size here would be a 20 gallon long tank. I'll see if I can find the dimensions of that tank, and update it. The 40 gallon figure is unnecessary for ball pythons, so I corrected it. Many balls do poorly in cages that are too large. A 40 gallon long tank would be big enough to house the very largest females of 5 to 6 feet in length, but would be much too large for a small 3 foot male. -- Winged_Wolf ( talk) 21:10, 30 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.83.50 ( talk)
i suggest using another picture of a ball python, as the pastel is a "non mainstream" variant. the picture displayed in the infobox should be (imo) representative of the " typical" specimen subject of the article and -if desired- pictures of the many variants (pastel, amelanistic, leucistic, etc etc) could be secondaryly included in the body or as links.
just ignore this suggestion if i'm wrong -- 217.126.82.94 15:15, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Will work on finding photos Jhall1468 07:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
If a snake lays eggs, is that definitive evidence that it is female?
I hope that wasn't a serious question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.153.70.231 ( talk) 09:26, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
if a snake lays eggs then it is definitely female — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plant223 ( talk • contribs) 22:38, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
I have attempted to modify the external links section to remove unneccesary linking to commerical breeders sites. My arguement: breeders sites, although containing some information, lack information that is not already available on public forums and non-commerical sites.
Specifically, the top two external links point to one breeders site, the first to the home page, the second to the commercial breeders forums. The home page lacks any real information regarding the articles main purpose (Ball pythons), and in fact, primarily have "sales" information regarding the animal. The second link (forum) is largely unused and relatively useless in an informative sense.
User User:24.115.65.15 has largely ignored my arguments, and has reverted external links to previous versions.
According to the rules, links that should normally be avoided include links that are primarily used to sell a product or service. The links provided to all the commercial sites do just that. I suggest that the commercial breeders sites (and perhaps the classifieds as well) should be removed as per the rule mentioned previously. Jhall1468 06:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Jhall1468 is right in his enforcing of the WP:EL guideline. -- Flex 16:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia User I am a regular user of Wikipedia and find the links very helpful. Kingsnake.com is a COMMERCIAL site that monetizes off of advertisers so it's unfair to include them and disregard everyone else. With respect to ball pythons, the first link was very helpful to me because they have more published information on ball pythons than Kingsnake.com and some of the other sites listed. I looked at the forum at the second link and read through the threads. The forum seems very active and rich with ball python related information so it's unfair to state that they don't have an active forum. The Snake Keeper link is very useful as well because they actually created some of the ball python morphs that are listed on Wikipedia. The same thing goes for Constrictors Unlimited and a few of the other links. Many of these sites offer ball python information above and beyond what's available on Kingsnake.com and I feel they should remain. If you're going to omit links because you feel they're commercial then you should omit EVERY link that's commercial in nature, Kingsnake.com included. They have one care sheet for ball pythons and that's it. The first link has over 25 articles on ball pythons yet you want to remove that link and say it's not good? I actually learned quite a bit from that site and my ball python could have died if I didn't find that site when I read this Wikipedia entry. Please leave the links in place, they were very useful to me as they are to other people. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.115.65.15 ( talk • contribs)
Technically irrelvant? Is Wikipedia for brainless robots or humans looking for information on a specific topic of interest? Since I don't think it was made for robots, my feelings of the usefulness of the links are very relevant as I have been helped by the external links in Wikipedia. Please keep in mind that Ball Pythons are living animals and just because someone chooses to make them available on their website should not discredit them from having a link to their site, especially if the site provides an abundance of concentrated information on the subject. I would also argue that having the prescence of breeder sites is very relevant because a person can contact an experienced "expert" on the topic as I did when my ball python almost perished. I should also note that a lot of the information known about ball pythons was in fact discovered by and published by some of the breeders listed in the external links section. Thanks for your time and have a pleasant day. Wikipedia User —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.115.65.15 ( talk • contribs)
There was a lot of good, solid information I put on here about keeping these animals as pets ( I keep them myself) and some idiot has decided to rub it all off. If the info is accurate, why do people feel the need to alter it!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.42.140.54 ( talk • contribs) 20:05, 6 January 2007.
Much of this article read (and still reads) like a book and removing it was neccesary, although it was not me who did it. Jhall1468 03:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
This article should be headed "Royal python", and stated it is also known as a "Ball python". The clue is in the snakes latin name: regis means king (or royal)
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary(1913): Regius, a. [L. regius, from rex, regis, a king.] - of or pertaining to a king; royal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.169.24.100 ( talk • contribs) 13:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC).
Article was originally written in American English and will remain that way, since the topic isn't dialect-specific. Jhall1468 08:54, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
i think that the article should be called Ball python because thats the way that people always say it and it would be really confusing if someone (like myself) searched up ball python and i could not find this article if it was renamed Royal python — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plant223 ( talk • contribs) 22:44, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
I have cleaned up a few areas of the article, namely removing some external links (as most of the details in this links are available via the other external links and references). Those links that were removed had a primarily commercial purpose, and as such, still violate the WP:EL guidelines. Some of the references are from commercial breeders and other commercial sites, which should be altered to non-commercial sources if possible.
I have also cited the majority of this article (only one unknown remains, which I propose be removed if a source is unavailable). Please discuss any changes here PRIOR to making edits, as I feel that the article is almost at the standard it should be. Jhall1468 03:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Jhall1468 You've removed solid links and added commerical links yet you make reference to violations of the WP:EL guidelines? When did Graziani Reptiles and New England Reptiles stop becoming commercial? Why do you continuously edit this page and disrupt good information??? Furthermore, with all the condensing and editing, there's really nothing of substance on this page now, just a few lines of rhetoric. The list of ball python morphs have been removed. Why? Please leave well enough alone already as I'm sure there are thousands of other Wikipedia entries that you can make better use of your time with. 19 January 2007
I've explained this already. I went through and cited all the information available on the page. Those cites included commercial breeder sites for the time being, but that is only because there isn't a wealth of information on the topic from non-commercial sources. Until then, I would rather have the article cited then leave a bunch of junk all over the place. The moment I find more reliable sources that aren't commercial, the commercial ones will be removed.
All of those articles on the page you insist stay are available elsewhere, and most of them are completely invalid and terrible sources for information. Melissa Kaplan's Care Sheet, for example, lists Ball Pythons as "happy in trees" when they are ground-dwellers, not aboreal. 3/4ths of the page is dedicated to Amazon Affiliate Links. That page is CLEARLY designed as a commercial page, and it would not particularly surprise me if you are the owner of it.
Finally, this page read like a book report, not encyclepedia entry. So I made some major changes (as did others) to bring it back to the realm of information (instead of opinion). This will be the last time I edit out that link, if you revert it again, I'll simply request arbitration, and we will end up with the same result. All of the articles listed on that page are available at their owners websites as well.
Please quit treating Wikipedia as a resource for advertising. Jhall1468 00:23, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
As a followup, I thought it might be of note. Greg Graziani and the owners of NERD are considered industry experts. Ron Crawford, the website you consistantly post, seems to be completely unknown.
24.229.135.203 is apparently owned by the locale cable company in Pottsville, PA. According to the RCReptiles forums, the owner (Ron Crawford) ALSO lives in Pottsville, PA. That is a direct violation of Wikipedia guidelines. So the only person that seems to take issue with my edits, is the one guy that happens to live in the same city as the owner fo the site in question. Jhall1468 00:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I figured I'd chime in on this because I've observed that JHall1468 thinks he owns Wikipedia and this page. Leave the links alone dude and quit trying to play God. I wouldn't be surprised if you were being paid by some of these "commercial" breeders (or you're one of them yourself) of whom you consistently defend and post their links on Wikipedia while trying to make up excuses and reasons to keep other links off the page. Get a life dude and stop screwing up the ball python page. ArtKoen
Nope, I don't think I own Wikipedia at all. I do find it ironic that after I pointed out that the original complaintent happened to live in the same city as the owner of the site he is so insistant on being included, someone else shows up to save the day. I am attempting to clean this article up and would like to eventually add to it. However, that has been extremely difficult given some users advertising on the page. I have requested mediation, should you and the anon. user choose not to agree to mediation, I will be forced to go to the Arbitration Committee.
And FYI, I'm not a breeder or paid by those that breed. I'm a collector and hobbiest that would like Wikipedia to offer accurate, unbiased information regarding the animal in question. I'm not defending anything, as External Links and references are two different things, and I assure you the moment I have good sources to cite in loo of the commercial breeders, I will change it.
Either way, posting a link to articles available elsewhere, and a page that is 75% affilliate links is NOT a resource nor informative site. The articles in question aren't even accurate. Jhall1468 03:20, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
You have both consistently advertised on this page, and as such, I have put notices on your talk pages. Further adding of spam/advertising links to your site will result in notification of admins. Jhall1468 17:26, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
It makes no sense at all to have the following;
Ball Python (Python Regius) - "regius" does not mean "ball" for goodness sake.
It most certainly *should* be Royal Python, also known as Ball python. Why - because Royal Python is its scientific name! is this an encylopedia or what?
Ball python is not the name of the species. Period. Saying the article is written in "American english" is no excuse. its a bit sloppy. Alexanderd 13:00, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah i agree with you, but i don't know, you have to copy/paste the whole article? The Red Cloud
Technically You could call python regius the blue spotted cobra eating python.... it would be absurd but my point is that latin names are giving for a reason... there set in stone... Ball Python and Royal Python are just two commonly used nicknames. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JonM.D. ( talk • contribs) 11:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
The article should give the common name and the latin name. When it comes to the common name, maybe we should look at which name is used most frequently in the english language? In linguistics it is most often being done to settle similar disputes, about specific words and which one is better. You need a big text corpus, search for the relevant terms / strings, and look at the frequencies. So lets do it, as a text corpus i will simply choose the internet according to google, and i will use google to search for the specific strings. "ball python" about 2,060,000 results, "royal python" about 482,000 results. So ball python is the winner, while royal python is also definitively in use. 217.251.79.166 ( talk) 20:23, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus (or, if there were one, I can't get through it). This entire stuff became messy, with discussions straying away and finally coming down. This has been listed at WP:RM for a couple of weeks. No prejudice against relisting; parties are urged to get a wider consensus at WP:TREE or wherever. Duja ► 07:44, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Moving this article from it's common name to it's scientific name was done in contrast to WP:TREE. According to the Article titles section:
In cases where there is a formal common name (e.g. birds), or when common names are well-known and reasonably unique, they should be used for article titles, except for plant articles. Scientific names should be used otherwise.
User Jwinius provided no particular reason for the move, and in fact, this is contrary to many of the highly rated WP:AAR articles. The name "Ball Python" and "Royal Python" are used regularly to describe Python regius, where as the scientific name is routinely NOT used. The article was originally written in American English the original title should remain, and as such, I'm moving it back. Jhall1468 02:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Of course, now that Ball Pythons (the redirect) is an existing article, the move must be done by an administrator. I have made the proper request at Wikipedia: Requested moves. Jhall1468 03:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.Support as nominator. Jhall1468 03:07, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Oppose. Using common names promotes confusion and conflict. Using the scientific name is the neutral solution that silences any debate regarding which common name to use. -- Jwinius 10:30, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm here to give a third opinion. I don't see a hard conflict with WP:LEAD, and WP:TREE is a project, not a Wikipedia guideline proper. That being said, I can see both sides of this issue. I tend to side with Jwinius's reasoning, but I see that featured articles like Cougar do not follow this pattern. Therefore, I think it should go back to Ball Python as being the main page name until such a time as the internal standards in WP:TREE are changed. -- Flex ( talk/ contribs) 19:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
There has been debate on this issue at WikiProject Lepidoptera with no consensus reached. The arguments put forth in my opinion are given below.
Editors proposing the common names POV generally refer to three arguments:
comon names. Consistency is definitely a quality sought for in Wikipedia, and this kind of lack of consistency or presence of ambiguity is one of the arguments people use to reject Wikipedia. Consistency also allows easy categorisation, stub-sorting, etc. I have personally tried to develop categorisation rules for articles in WikiProject Lepidoptera, where articles may either have common names and scientific names, and got quite hopelessly lost over this issue. Consistency should be given value over minor considerations. Its ironic that User:Jhall1468 is imploring this move of title back to Ball Python for reasons of consistency in WP:AAR.
I think the interpretation of TOL guidelines by User: Jhall1468 is incorrect. So lets examine the exact TOL guideline which is being claimed to be flouted:
Ball python fails this test. There are two common names for this python - Ball python (Google hits 2,430,000 [1] and Royal python (Google hits 2,200,00 [2]). So the species article does not have a reasonably unique name. There is as good a case for the article to be called Royal Python as there is for Ball Python. So, in this case the article name should default to scientific name with both the common names as redirects. Please note, on this very page, when the issue previously came up for the name of the article to be moved to Royal Python, the present agrieved User:Jhall1468 gave an obscure reply and constructively evaded the issue.
Lastly, Wikipedia TOL has this to say as its opening paragraph:
This implies that WikiProject guidelines are just that - guidelines. They are not sacrosanct ie Wikipedia policy. So, if they are to be countermanded, there must be a good reason to do so. User:Jwinius provides that. The way, I understand is that, User:Jwinius has a proposition. If he is allowed to follow the naming convention less preferred by guidelines, he will provide in exchange, to Wikipedia, a fully categorised, and subcategorised added-value to the complete python series of articles, including tremenduous amounts of taxonomic data, as he has done for Viperidae , which is in the sprirt of the text of the lead para of WP:TOL. This seems to be a fair deal, whereas, all that User:Jhall1468 is offering is dogmatic application of a guideline.
Hence, in the best interests of Wikipedia, my opinion is that the article should be named Python regius as per WikiProject TOL and User:Jwinius be commended for his efforts rather than be taken to task for it. AshLin 11:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I believe User:AshLin has confused the difference between unique and distinct. The policy (or guideline, if you will) is trying to prevent different species being confused by similar names. It has nothing to do with whether or not there are multiple common names. Furthermore, using Google as a source to prove the popularity of either naming convention is kind of silly. For example, by placing quotes around each of the search terms we find that "Ball Python" has 323,000 results [3] while "Royal Python" has 49,700 results [4]. Using the same argument you've provided, Ball Python is both unique and distinct as a common name for Python regius.
Again, I very much appreciative of what Jwinius is trying to do, I just don't like the methodology and format. I don't mind being outvoted on the issue, if it comes to that, but I DO mind existing articles being formatted in a way that (at the very least) defies already existing guidelines, without so much as a discussion. However, as I said before, I would rather Jwinius take his arguments to WP:AAR, so the entire community can make a decision, as opposed to a few. And perhaps, AshLin could try a little harder to Assume good faith, since my interest is not in attacking Jwinius, but improving Wikipedia. Jhall1468 15:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm here because of the note on
wikiproject reptiles and amphibians, and I think I've finally figured out what the controversy is all about, although I'm not sure. To be clear; this article was created at this page, and
Ball Python and
Royal Python were both created as redirects. (I can't find any move logs, so I can't think of another explanation for this; if I'm incorrect, I'd love an alternate explanation of what happened.) To me, having the article named any of those three titles would be O.K., fairly consistent with the manual of style, and not worth a page move, as the other two article titles are redirects. If I were making a new article, I'd go with the manual of style and use Ball Python as the most common common name, but the argument that there are two common names could certainly sway me to go with
Python regius. As the article is currently at, and has been at, the scientific name, I see no reason to move the article.
To me, the grander question of "common names or scientific names" can be completely ignored for this article, as it's in a fairly good location under either policy.
So what is left of the controversy here is essentially a format issue. Both common names and the scientific name should be included prominently on the top of the page, and both formats seem to do that. To me, the formats are not dependent on which name the article is at, and they are useful for two different situations. If an organism has a huge number of common names, then it makes sense to list them all on the top of the page, because it's handy to have an easy place to find them, but no-one is going to remember them all. If an organism has one, two or maybe even three common names, it makes sense for the names to be in bold in the first sentence of the lead, because it makes sense for the reader to become familiar with the common names; while inconsistent, they are important for communication. I also think that the taxo-box and good wiki-formating is quite enough consistent style to hold the encyclopedia together; the snake articles don't need to all look exactly the same.
So, my opinion on the lead for this page is that it should have the common names bolded in the text of the lead, and that it should stay at the scientific name.
Enuja
(talk) 19:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps it would have been better if I had not mentioned the wikilinks to the redirects; they're a less important issue. However, I'm beginning to think that I'm wasting my time with this debate. I've done my best to explain the necessity of applying a consistent naming discipline under these circumstance and given the best examples I can think of, but I guess you really have to have wrestled with this kind of thing yourself before you can fully appreciate the difficulties involved.
Any attempts to convince AAR to change their naming convention would obviously be futile, since they've followed WP guidelines much more closely for a long time, and easily outnumber us. Besides, as long as my friends I and stick to snakes, then we should never run into any conflicts. Since the different AAR subprojects are all completely separate taxonomically speaking, each can and should be allowed to decide for itself how ambitious it wants to be and what standards it sets for itself. Or, are they all supposed to be kept down at the lowest common denominator, slavishly following the general WP guidelines? Remember, those guidelines are there primarily for people and projects who can't think of any better ways to do things. They are not rules.
Would life become less lonely for me if I relaxed my standards and aimed a lot lower? Nope. I'd still be the only person working on the snake articles full time. The only difference would be that, suddenly, I'd have nothing more special, new, or different to look forward to than anyone else. --
Jwinius 09:26, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
There appears to be a bit of a slow-motion edit war about several formatting and image issues on this article. Please discuss edits here instead of reverting. I'd like to discuss the images. Currently, there is only one image on the page, and it's in the taxo-box. It is certainly okay to have more than one image of an organism on its page, so putting one in the taxo-box and one in the text might be a good compromise. The two images are Image:Python Regius Pastel.jpg and Image:Python royal 35.JPG. The image of the pastel ball python shows the whole animal, is of high resolution, and is generally just a good picture. But it's not a picture of a normal ball python. The other image has only a small portion of the face of the python in focus, but it is apparently a more typical member of its species, and its actually hanging on what is apparently a branch. While the resolution is reasonably large, the image isn't technically as good as that of the pastel python. I suggest putting Image:Python royal 35.JPG in the taxobox and Image:Python Regius Pastel.jpg in the "Captivity" section. What do others think? Enuja (talk) 22:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
From the information provided above by Jwinius, I'm convinced that Image:Python Regius Pastel.jpg is the more descriptive and more appropriate image for the taxo-box. It shows the whole animal, it's in focus on the whole animal, and as long as the coloring is not too abnormal (Jwinius's source quote convinces me), it's a better image. Jhall, it's not that these yellow color morphs have just "been found" in the wild (like an albino), it's that they "frequently occur." Another possible solution is to get a better image of this python for the page, that all editors would agree on. I looked in the Pythonidae category on Wikimedia commons and didn't find anything better (it's got lots of great images of Python morulus, though), but any freely licensed photo (like one you took, and want to give to Wikipedia!) would work. Enuja (talk) 22:32, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Can someone explain the merits of the outline format that is currently in place? I personally prefer a more categorized layout, such as the previous one [8]. To me, this seems to flow better than the current one. There seems to be a distaste for subheadings in the present one, and I'm curious what the arguments for that are? Jhall1468 16:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I've just uploaded some nice ball python pics to wikimedia, including pictures of a gravid python, a python brooding eggs, incubating ball python eggs, and an albino ball python. These may make a nice addition to this article in appropriate places, if people wish to expand a bit on ball python reproduction and add something about color mutations in this article. They can be found on the Python regius page on wikimedia. This article seems very sparse on details, and could use some fleshing out. What would folks think about a page specifically discussing color and pattern mutations in snakes? (WITHOUT commercial links, of course). Would this be too narrowly focused? I would think the fact that it has generated a large commercial market should be worthy of note in an encyclopedia article, for its cultural impact. Perhaps an article on color and pattern mutations in pet animals in general, and their significance relating to the pet trade? Winged_Wolf 2:20 AM, 05 June 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.198.204.117 ( talk) 07:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
My point was that a page on keeping these animals as pets would be a welcome addition to Wikipedia. Wikipedia includes references to various cat and dog breeds--not merely a natural history article on Canis lupus familiaris (for example). If this article is to be kept as only a reference for wild ball pythons, then it stands to reason that a separate article for captive ball pythons should be created--one that does include basic husbandry, history of keeping and breeding, color mutations, and genetics, as well as articles on each color morph and their history. I see these subjects as being of interest to people in general--the Wikipedia is supposed to be a thorough encyclopedia, after all. Because these animals ARE so commonly kept, it only makes sense to create articles on them in much the same way we have for other pet species (ie, dogs, cats, horses, etc). 68.13.83.50 ( talk) 10:09, 31 December 2009 (UTC) Winged_Wolf ( talk) 4:09, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
i want to find out how many times to feed a baby ball python —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.239.79 ( talk) 12:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm changing the recommended weight of male ball pythons, as it is ludicrously high--even the most conservative captive breeders state that 800 grams is sufficient weight, not 900. If this is a natural history article, you should realize that wild females will breed at around 1200 grams, and wild males at 500 grams or even less. Males will breed as soon as they are producing sperm, which they may begin to do when they're only 6 months old and under 400 grams! Most captive breeders will breed males at 500 grams, and they do just fine. Upon making that edit, I discovered much of the rest of the information in that area was also incorrect--the incubation time, the age at which they reach sexual maturity, etc. I have corrected it. I sometimes wonder if people just grab random scholarly-sounding sites for references without double-checking to see if they are correct. Captive breeding of these animals has given us ample information on their reproduction. Being wild doesn't add an extra month to incubation (for example). I realize I haven't replaced the references, but I will get around to that, or someone else can do it. It should not be difficult to find supporting references for the CORRECT info. Winged Wolf ( talk) 20:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC) Winged_Wolf ( talk) 13:11, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
I have now replaced the references. Winged Wolf ( talk) 20:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC) Winged_Wolf ( talk) 14:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Just a few minor corrections to the captive care area. These snakes actually prefer a smaller cage for their size than most animals, as they spend most of their time in the wild hiding in burrows. The most important captive care information regards proper temperatures, humidity, and hiding areas, so I have added information on environmental needs. I removed the reference, as some of the information from it was incorrect. If a reference is required for any of the changes I have made, add "The Complete Ball Python by Kevin McCurley", which is a published book. 68.13.83.50 ( talk) 10:03, 31 December 2009 (UTC) Winged_Wolf ( talk) 19:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Please don't revert this--20 gallon long is actually the correct size tank for all but the very largest female ball pythons. Males and small females will be happy for their entire lives in a 20 gallon long tank. I did specify that it should be a long style tank, not a standard or tall tank. This does make a difference in floor space. 68.13.83.50 ( talk) 20:24, 31 December 2009 (UTC) Winged_Wolf ( talk) 14:24, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
If anyone has any ideas for a juvenile python that refuses to eat a frozen mouse please feel free to give me a few tips. He is 18 inches long. I think he usually ate live mice once weekly. He hasn't eaten in 2 weeks and has just finished shedding. I tried 3 times to give him a warmed frozen mouse and he refuses to eat it. I tried tying a string to it's tail to make it look alive and he just recoils at the sight of it. I know they can go some time (up to 2 months ) without eating but I am still concern. I would welcome any ideas you may have.
Kim —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.101.105.254 ( talk) 22:58, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm not here to argue,ask or shove anything down anyone's throat. I am an owner of three Ball Pythons,by my own observations, I have an extraordinary male that is 5'2",unheard of. A female 4'8"with an appetite that is voracious, she has consumed 5 full grown mice in one feeding or 2 medium rats the usual dinner for her bi-weekly or weekly. The other is still new to me and has not shown any odd characteristics. I know you are like who is this guy,I want proof. I also have a friend that had 2 himself, a male and female both over 4'. His Male would not eat and did not eat for a year to answer your question. One possible food source he may like would be a baby chicken newly hatched. This was said by me and I had not made a signature at the time now I have one and I hope this will add my signature, if not, this edit will show it now for any one that wishes to comment on my posting in this discussion, James Mullins @ weaselistic1@yahoo.com—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.164.73.149 ( talk) 03:45, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
I think it would be beneficial to add a little information about housing in sterilite containers - this is very cost effective and could prove to be helpful for upcoming breeders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stboser ( talk • contribs) 22:54, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
I wonder what the problem is, is it a lack of available pictures with the right license? Or are there reasons to NOT include pictures of some varieties breeders have produced?
There are many mutations that impact the pattern, the coloration, or both, and breeders deliberately combine them to attain certain optics.
for those that have not seen it, external links to 3 stunning examples i especially like: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/vpi-axanthic-clown/ this is a double recessive, "VPI Axanthic" knocks out the browns and yellows and "Clown" dramatically alters the pattern. http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/the-corcra-ball/ this is a 3-gene combination of 3 incomplete dominant genes: Mystic, Mojave and Enchi. Mystic and Mojave are allelic, the genes sit on the same locus and interact in a special way. http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/banana-ghi/ this is a 2-gene combination of two incomplete dominant genes, Banana and GHI, both genes are on their own very valuable and in high demand. http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/highway-ball/ another 2-gene combination of two allelic genes.
Heck, we could do an entire article on ball python designer morphs. Many professional breeders combine and stack up genes for a living, and prices for the right combinations of rare and valuable genes can easily reach into the tens of thousnds of dollars. Breeders combine up to 7 different genes in their quest to produce snakes with new optics. So far there are over 100 different genes that breeders use to manipulate color and pattern and over 2000 combinations of these genes. I really wonder why none of this is to be found anywhere on Wikipedia, whats the holdup, where is the roadblock? 188.104.112.229 ( talk) 19:01, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 18:10, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Python regius → Ball python – This very well-known (esp. as a popular pet) snake species has a well-established unambiguous common name, so we should use that name as the article title per WP:COMMONNAME / WP:NCFAUNA. It does also have another common name ("royal python"), but "ball python" seems to be its most common name (and also seems more objectively descriptive than "royal python"). Certainly "ball python" is more common than the current name, "Python regius". (There may also be an WP:ENGVAR issue here, as the article was apparently originally written in American English, and "ball python" may be more common in American English than in other varieties.) The suggested destination name is already a redirect to this article, and it was the original name of the article until someone moved it in 2007 while commenting that "Scientific names should be used for page names on biological organisms whenever possible to avoid confusion". That edit summary statement seems contrary to current Wikipedia article titling guidelines, which recommend the use of common names. Just after the move in 2007, there was an RM discussion of the same suggestion that ended with no consensus but "no prejudice against relisting". Now I am relisting it, and suggesting to revert that move. — BarrelProof ( talk) 23:56, 28 August 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 ( talk) 16:48, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
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The scientific classification in this article lists ball pythons as belonging to the kingdom Plantae, which is obviously not true as pythons are not plants. The clades, order, family, genus, and species listed on the ball python article are also plants. I do not know the full proper classification for ball pythons so I cannot edit this myself, but it definitely needs fixing.
130.245.192.11 ( talk) 04:49, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
Is there a reference for the claim that these snakes shiver while incubating their eggs? I've removed that bit (hopefully temporarily) because I can't find a source to back it up. The only mention of this behavior I've been able to find is for the Burmese python, the reticulated python, and Australian diamond python, whereas some other species like the African rock python don't shiver: in other words, not all pythons do it, and from what I can tell it only seems to be documented in Asian and Australian species so far. I'd like it to be true, but given how commonly these animals are bred in captivity, you'd think it would be better documented if it was. 2601:342:100:9000:69CD:6AA6:55AA:D5AA ( talk) 13:36, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
I believe the general husbandry section has deviated away from functioning as an encyclopedia entry and is instead functioning as a tutorial, which is generally not appropriate for Wikipedia.
For example, the featured article on the African Lion does not have a section on lion husbandry, because it is an encyclopedia article about a wild animal, not a husbandry guide. Even the article on the dog does not contain how-to husbandry information. I suggest it be deleted or at least pared down to more appropriately reflect an encyclopedic tone. Does anyone have thoughts or objections?
Connorlong90 ( talk) 04:54, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
Types of ball pythons. 2603:9005:700:114:88AA:4829:F262:7B84 ( talk) 16:26, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
As you may know Ball pythons are wonderful pets for people who are new to having snakes as pets. They eat well and are very sweet. Plus, There are many different kinds of morphs to pick form. This snake is a lovable and it sure will side it way to slide its way to your heart. 97.107.90.67 ( talk) 22:20, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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According to Guinness World Records the oldest snake was a 40 year-old Red-tailed Boa (Boa constrictor), so the age of 48 would make this species the World's longest-lived snake. I did some searches, and found out about a Ball Python that died at the reported age of 49 years 4 months in Philadelphia Zoo (the same zoo as the Guinness approved boa!). But I found no more details, such as date of death, or if this snake was named. Another source gave this species a maximum age of 28 years in captivity. Clearly this calls for further research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.221.220.31 ( talk) 23:28, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
My research indicates the same, noted with a citation needed. Perhaps should be removed until an actual source is available. Jhall1468 07:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
average longevity is about 20 years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JonM.D. ( talk • contribs) 11:22, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
In the ball python breeder community, lifespan is usually cited as 'up to 30 years', or '20 to 30 years', with the 48 year old or 49 year old record being mentioned in some cases. There is a lack of a reliable source for this information--most book authors simply go by the info provided by breeders for longevity. Scientific studies are lacking. The breeder estimate is probably the most accurate we have at the moment, and is better than nothing. Perhaps a note should be added that the longevity is an estimate. 68.13.83.50 ( talk) 03:07, 31 December 2009 (UTC)-- Winged_Wolf ( talk) 21:03, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
This is an old section, but somehow it's fresh again. There is currently an article circulating claiming that a 62 year old ball python has laid eggs. Several things should arouse suspicion: it cites a Mark Wanner, but this person has no existence prior to this article and has a linkedin that seems suspect as well. Also, the article mentions that ball pythons usually stop laying eggs before they are 60; given that Guinness cites a 42 year old boa as the oldest known snake, and the St Louis Zoo website does not mention a 60+ year old snake, I'm guessing we're looking at pure bunk. But before removing this from the article, please discuss. - Lvthn13 ( talk) 02:26, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
This article doesn't discuss whether this snake is poisonous or not. Is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.240.59.53 ( talk) 02:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Ball pythons, like all pythons, are constrictors (squeeze their prey to death) and do not have any venom what so ever. or do they....
As stated, constrictors are all nonvenomous and the article was updated to note that. Jhall1468 07:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
NOOOOOOO
the royal python is not poisonous, i own one.
definitely not poisonous -
1) it's a constrictor :P
2) if it was toxic at all, it would be venomous, not poisonous. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
BlooTannery (
talk •
contribs) 07:28, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
What kind of gallons are we talking about here? US gallons, UK gallons? dry gallon? Perhaps it would be better to use metric units. Same goes for temperature, it didnt specify at all, but I reckoned we were talking about Fahrenheit given the numbers, so I added that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.240.113.71 ( talk) 17:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
US gallons. In the US, many small pets are typically kept in aquariums, and aquariums here are usually measured by the volume of water they hold, instead of by their dimensions. Long, standard, and tall tanks have different dimensions. The correct tank size here would be a 20 gallon long tank. I'll see if I can find the dimensions of that tank, and update it. The 40 gallon figure is unnecessary for ball pythons, so I corrected it. Many balls do poorly in cages that are too large. A 40 gallon long tank would be big enough to house the very largest females of 5 to 6 feet in length, but would be much too large for a small 3 foot male. -- Winged_Wolf ( talk) 21:10, 30 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.83.50 ( talk)
i suggest using another picture of a ball python, as the pastel is a "non mainstream" variant. the picture displayed in the infobox should be (imo) representative of the " typical" specimen subject of the article and -if desired- pictures of the many variants (pastel, amelanistic, leucistic, etc etc) could be secondaryly included in the body or as links.
just ignore this suggestion if i'm wrong -- 217.126.82.94 15:15, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Will work on finding photos Jhall1468 07:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
If a snake lays eggs, is that definitive evidence that it is female?
I hope that wasn't a serious question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.153.70.231 ( talk) 09:26, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
if a snake lays eggs then it is definitely female — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plant223 ( talk • contribs) 22:38, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
I have attempted to modify the external links section to remove unneccesary linking to commerical breeders sites. My arguement: breeders sites, although containing some information, lack information that is not already available on public forums and non-commerical sites.
Specifically, the top two external links point to one breeders site, the first to the home page, the second to the commercial breeders forums. The home page lacks any real information regarding the articles main purpose (Ball pythons), and in fact, primarily have "sales" information regarding the animal. The second link (forum) is largely unused and relatively useless in an informative sense.
User User:24.115.65.15 has largely ignored my arguments, and has reverted external links to previous versions.
According to the rules, links that should normally be avoided include links that are primarily used to sell a product or service. The links provided to all the commercial sites do just that. I suggest that the commercial breeders sites (and perhaps the classifieds as well) should be removed as per the rule mentioned previously. Jhall1468 06:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Jhall1468 is right in his enforcing of the WP:EL guideline. -- Flex 16:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia User I am a regular user of Wikipedia and find the links very helpful. Kingsnake.com is a COMMERCIAL site that monetizes off of advertisers so it's unfair to include them and disregard everyone else. With respect to ball pythons, the first link was very helpful to me because they have more published information on ball pythons than Kingsnake.com and some of the other sites listed. I looked at the forum at the second link and read through the threads. The forum seems very active and rich with ball python related information so it's unfair to state that they don't have an active forum. The Snake Keeper link is very useful as well because they actually created some of the ball python morphs that are listed on Wikipedia. The same thing goes for Constrictors Unlimited and a few of the other links. Many of these sites offer ball python information above and beyond what's available on Kingsnake.com and I feel they should remain. If you're going to omit links because you feel they're commercial then you should omit EVERY link that's commercial in nature, Kingsnake.com included. They have one care sheet for ball pythons and that's it. The first link has over 25 articles on ball pythons yet you want to remove that link and say it's not good? I actually learned quite a bit from that site and my ball python could have died if I didn't find that site when I read this Wikipedia entry. Please leave the links in place, they were very useful to me as they are to other people. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.115.65.15 ( talk • contribs)
Technically irrelvant? Is Wikipedia for brainless robots or humans looking for information on a specific topic of interest? Since I don't think it was made for robots, my feelings of the usefulness of the links are very relevant as I have been helped by the external links in Wikipedia. Please keep in mind that Ball Pythons are living animals and just because someone chooses to make them available on their website should not discredit them from having a link to their site, especially if the site provides an abundance of concentrated information on the subject. I would also argue that having the prescence of breeder sites is very relevant because a person can contact an experienced "expert" on the topic as I did when my ball python almost perished. I should also note that a lot of the information known about ball pythons was in fact discovered by and published by some of the breeders listed in the external links section. Thanks for your time and have a pleasant day. Wikipedia User —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.115.65.15 ( talk • contribs)
There was a lot of good, solid information I put on here about keeping these animals as pets ( I keep them myself) and some idiot has decided to rub it all off. If the info is accurate, why do people feel the need to alter it!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.42.140.54 ( talk • contribs) 20:05, 6 January 2007.
Much of this article read (and still reads) like a book and removing it was neccesary, although it was not me who did it. Jhall1468 03:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
This article should be headed "Royal python", and stated it is also known as a "Ball python". The clue is in the snakes latin name: regis means king (or royal)
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary(1913): Regius, a. [L. regius, from rex, regis, a king.] - of or pertaining to a king; royal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.169.24.100 ( talk • contribs) 13:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC).
Article was originally written in American English and will remain that way, since the topic isn't dialect-specific. Jhall1468 08:54, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
i think that the article should be called Ball python because thats the way that people always say it and it would be really confusing if someone (like myself) searched up ball python and i could not find this article if it was renamed Royal python — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plant223 ( talk • contribs) 22:44, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
I have cleaned up a few areas of the article, namely removing some external links (as most of the details in this links are available via the other external links and references). Those links that were removed had a primarily commercial purpose, and as such, still violate the WP:EL guidelines. Some of the references are from commercial breeders and other commercial sites, which should be altered to non-commercial sources if possible.
I have also cited the majority of this article (only one unknown remains, which I propose be removed if a source is unavailable). Please discuss any changes here PRIOR to making edits, as I feel that the article is almost at the standard it should be. Jhall1468 03:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Jhall1468 You've removed solid links and added commerical links yet you make reference to violations of the WP:EL guidelines? When did Graziani Reptiles and New England Reptiles stop becoming commercial? Why do you continuously edit this page and disrupt good information??? Furthermore, with all the condensing and editing, there's really nothing of substance on this page now, just a few lines of rhetoric. The list of ball python morphs have been removed. Why? Please leave well enough alone already as I'm sure there are thousands of other Wikipedia entries that you can make better use of your time with. 19 January 2007
I've explained this already. I went through and cited all the information available on the page. Those cites included commercial breeder sites for the time being, but that is only because there isn't a wealth of information on the topic from non-commercial sources. Until then, I would rather have the article cited then leave a bunch of junk all over the place. The moment I find more reliable sources that aren't commercial, the commercial ones will be removed.
All of those articles on the page you insist stay are available elsewhere, and most of them are completely invalid and terrible sources for information. Melissa Kaplan's Care Sheet, for example, lists Ball Pythons as "happy in trees" when they are ground-dwellers, not aboreal. 3/4ths of the page is dedicated to Amazon Affiliate Links. That page is CLEARLY designed as a commercial page, and it would not particularly surprise me if you are the owner of it.
Finally, this page read like a book report, not encyclepedia entry. So I made some major changes (as did others) to bring it back to the realm of information (instead of opinion). This will be the last time I edit out that link, if you revert it again, I'll simply request arbitration, and we will end up with the same result. All of the articles listed on that page are available at their owners websites as well.
Please quit treating Wikipedia as a resource for advertising. Jhall1468 00:23, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
As a followup, I thought it might be of note. Greg Graziani and the owners of NERD are considered industry experts. Ron Crawford, the website you consistantly post, seems to be completely unknown.
24.229.135.203 is apparently owned by the locale cable company in Pottsville, PA. According to the RCReptiles forums, the owner (Ron Crawford) ALSO lives in Pottsville, PA. That is a direct violation of Wikipedia guidelines. So the only person that seems to take issue with my edits, is the one guy that happens to live in the same city as the owner fo the site in question. Jhall1468 00:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I figured I'd chime in on this because I've observed that JHall1468 thinks he owns Wikipedia and this page. Leave the links alone dude and quit trying to play God. I wouldn't be surprised if you were being paid by some of these "commercial" breeders (or you're one of them yourself) of whom you consistently defend and post their links on Wikipedia while trying to make up excuses and reasons to keep other links off the page. Get a life dude and stop screwing up the ball python page. ArtKoen
Nope, I don't think I own Wikipedia at all. I do find it ironic that after I pointed out that the original complaintent happened to live in the same city as the owner of the site he is so insistant on being included, someone else shows up to save the day. I am attempting to clean this article up and would like to eventually add to it. However, that has been extremely difficult given some users advertising on the page. I have requested mediation, should you and the anon. user choose not to agree to mediation, I will be forced to go to the Arbitration Committee.
And FYI, I'm not a breeder or paid by those that breed. I'm a collector and hobbiest that would like Wikipedia to offer accurate, unbiased information regarding the animal in question. I'm not defending anything, as External Links and references are two different things, and I assure you the moment I have good sources to cite in loo of the commercial breeders, I will change it.
Either way, posting a link to articles available elsewhere, and a page that is 75% affilliate links is NOT a resource nor informative site. The articles in question aren't even accurate. Jhall1468 03:20, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
You have both consistently advertised on this page, and as such, I have put notices on your talk pages. Further adding of spam/advertising links to your site will result in notification of admins. Jhall1468 17:26, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
It makes no sense at all to have the following;
Ball Python (Python Regius) - "regius" does not mean "ball" for goodness sake.
It most certainly *should* be Royal Python, also known as Ball python. Why - because Royal Python is its scientific name! is this an encylopedia or what?
Ball python is not the name of the species. Period. Saying the article is written in "American english" is no excuse. its a bit sloppy. Alexanderd 13:00, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah i agree with you, but i don't know, you have to copy/paste the whole article? The Red Cloud
Technically You could call python regius the blue spotted cobra eating python.... it would be absurd but my point is that latin names are giving for a reason... there set in stone... Ball Python and Royal Python are just two commonly used nicknames. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JonM.D. ( talk • contribs) 11:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
The article should give the common name and the latin name. When it comes to the common name, maybe we should look at which name is used most frequently in the english language? In linguistics it is most often being done to settle similar disputes, about specific words and which one is better. You need a big text corpus, search for the relevant terms / strings, and look at the frequencies. So lets do it, as a text corpus i will simply choose the internet according to google, and i will use google to search for the specific strings. "ball python" about 2,060,000 results, "royal python" about 482,000 results. So ball python is the winner, while royal python is also definitively in use. 217.251.79.166 ( talk) 20:23, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus (or, if there were one, I can't get through it). This entire stuff became messy, with discussions straying away and finally coming down. This has been listed at WP:RM for a couple of weeks. No prejudice against relisting; parties are urged to get a wider consensus at WP:TREE or wherever. Duja ► 07:44, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Moving this article from it's common name to it's scientific name was done in contrast to WP:TREE. According to the Article titles section:
In cases where there is a formal common name (e.g. birds), or when common names are well-known and reasonably unique, they should be used for article titles, except for plant articles. Scientific names should be used otherwise.
User Jwinius provided no particular reason for the move, and in fact, this is contrary to many of the highly rated WP:AAR articles. The name "Ball Python" and "Royal Python" are used regularly to describe Python regius, where as the scientific name is routinely NOT used. The article was originally written in American English the original title should remain, and as such, I'm moving it back. Jhall1468 02:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Of course, now that Ball Pythons (the redirect) is an existing article, the move must be done by an administrator. I have made the proper request at Wikipedia: Requested moves. Jhall1468 03:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.Support as nominator. Jhall1468 03:07, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Oppose. Using common names promotes confusion and conflict. Using the scientific name is the neutral solution that silences any debate regarding which common name to use. -- Jwinius 10:30, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm here to give a third opinion. I don't see a hard conflict with WP:LEAD, and WP:TREE is a project, not a Wikipedia guideline proper. That being said, I can see both sides of this issue. I tend to side with Jwinius's reasoning, but I see that featured articles like Cougar do not follow this pattern. Therefore, I think it should go back to Ball Python as being the main page name until such a time as the internal standards in WP:TREE are changed. -- Flex ( talk/ contribs) 19:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
There has been debate on this issue at WikiProject Lepidoptera with no consensus reached. The arguments put forth in my opinion are given below.
Editors proposing the common names POV generally refer to three arguments:
comon names. Consistency is definitely a quality sought for in Wikipedia, and this kind of lack of consistency or presence of ambiguity is one of the arguments people use to reject Wikipedia. Consistency also allows easy categorisation, stub-sorting, etc. I have personally tried to develop categorisation rules for articles in WikiProject Lepidoptera, where articles may either have common names and scientific names, and got quite hopelessly lost over this issue. Consistency should be given value over minor considerations. Its ironic that User:Jhall1468 is imploring this move of title back to Ball Python for reasons of consistency in WP:AAR.
I think the interpretation of TOL guidelines by User: Jhall1468 is incorrect. So lets examine the exact TOL guideline which is being claimed to be flouted:
Ball python fails this test. There are two common names for this python - Ball python (Google hits 2,430,000 [1] and Royal python (Google hits 2,200,00 [2]). So the species article does not have a reasonably unique name. There is as good a case for the article to be called Royal Python as there is for Ball Python. So, in this case the article name should default to scientific name with both the common names as redirects. Please note, on this very page, when the issue previously came up for the name of the article to be moved to Royal Python, the present agrieved User:Jhall1468 gave an obscure reply and constructively evaded the issue.
Lastly, Wikipedia TOL has this to say as its opening paragraph:
This implies that WikiProject guidelines are just that - guidelines. They are not sacrosanct ie Wikipedia policy. So, if they are to be countermanded, there must be a good reason to do so. User:Jwinius provides that. The way, I understand is that, User:Jwinius has a proposition. If he is allowed to follow the naming convention less preferred by guidelines, he will provide in exchange, to Wikipedia, a fully categorised, and subcategorised added-value to the complete python series of articles, including tremenduous amounts of taxonomic data, as he has done for Viperidae , which is in the sprirt of the text of the lead para of WP:TOL. This seems to be a fair deal, whereas, all that User:Jhall1468 is offering is dogmatic application of a guideline.
Hence, in the best interests of Wikipedia, my opinion is that the article should be named Python regius as per WikiProject TOL and User:Jwinius be commended for his efforts rather than be taken to task for it. AshLin 11:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I believe User:AshLin has confused the difference between unique and distinct. The policy (or guideline, if you will) is trying to prevent different species being confused by similar names. It has nothing to do with whether or not there are multiple common names. Furthermore, using Google as a source to prove the popularity of either naming convention is kind of silly. For example, by placing quotes around each of the search terms we find that "Ball Python" has 323,000 results [3] while "Royal Python" has 49,700 results [4]. Using the same argument you've provided, Ball Python is both unique and distinct as a common name for Python regius.
Again, I very much appreciative of what Jwinius is trying to do, I just don't like the methodology and format. I don't mind being outvoted on the issue, if it comes to that, but I DO mind existing articles being formatted in a way that (at the very least) defies already existing guidelines, without so much as a discussion. However, as I said before, I would rather Jwinius take his arguments to WP:AAR, so the entire community can make a decision, as opposed to a few. And perhaps, AshLin could try a little harder to Assume good faith, since my interest is not in attacking Jwinius, but improving Wikipedia. Jhall1468 15:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm here because of the note on
wikiproject reptiles and amphibians, and I think I've finally figured out what the controversy is all about, although I'm not sure. To be clear; this article was created at this page, and
Ball Python and
Royal Python were both created as redirects. (I can't find any move logs, so I can't think of another explanation for this; if I'm incorrect, I'd love an alternate explanation of what happened.) To me, having the article named any of those three titles would be O.K., fairly consistent with the manual of style, and not worth a page move, as the other two article titles are redirects. If I were making a new article, I'd go with the manual of style and use Ball Python as the most common common name, but the argument that there are two common names could certainly sway me to go with
Python regius. As the article is currently at, and has been at, the scientific name, I see no reason to move the article.
To me, the grander question of "common names or scientific names" can be completely ignored for this article, as it's in a fairly good location under either policy.
So what is left of the controversy here is essentially a format issue. Both common names and the scientific name should be included prominently on the top of the page, and both formats seem to do that. To me, the formats are not dependent on which name the article is at, and they are useful for two different situations. If an organism has a huge number of common names, then it makes sense to list them all on the top of the page, because it's handy to have an easy place to find them, but no-one is going to remember them all. If an organism has one, two or maybe even three common names, it makes sense for the names to be in bold in the first sentence of the lead, because it makes sense for the reader to become familiar with the common names; while inconsistent, they are important for communication. I also think that the taxo-box and good wiki-formating is quite enough consistent style to hold the encyclopedia together; the snake articles don't need to all look exactly the same.
So, my opinion on the lead for this page is that it should have the common names bolded in the text of the lead, and that it should stay at the scientific name.
Enuja
(talk) 19:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps it would have been better if I had not mentioned the wikilinks to the redirects; they're a less important issue. However, I'm beginning to think that I'm wasting my time with this debate. I've done my best to explain the necessity of applying a consistent naming discipline under these circumstance and given the best examples I can think of, but I guess you really have to have wrestled with this kind of thing yourself before you can fully appreciate the difficulties involved.
Any attempts to convince AAR to change their naming convention would obviously be futile, since they've followed WP guidelines much more closely for a long time, and easily outnumber us. Besides, as long as my friends I and stick to snakes, then we should never run into any conflicts. Since the different AAR subprojects are all completely separate taxonomically speaking, each can and should be allowed to decide for itself how ambitious it wants to be and what standards it sets for itself. Or, are they all supposed to be kept down at the lowest common denominator, slavishly following the general WP guidelines? Remember, those guidelines are there primarily for people and projects who can't think of any better ways to do things. They are not rules.
Would life become less lonely for me if I relaxed my standards and aimed a lot lower? Nope. I'd still be the only person working on the snake articles full time. The only difference would be that, suddenly, I'd have nothing more special, new, or different to look forward to than anyone else. --
Jwinius 09:26, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
There appears to be a bit of a slow-motion edit war about several formatting and image issues on this article. Please discuss edits here instead of reverting. I'd like to discuss the images. Currently, there is only one image on the page, and it's in the taxo-box. It is certainly okay to have more than one image of an organism on its page, so putting one in the taxo-box and one in the text might be a good compromise. The two images are Image:Python Regius Pastel.jpg and Image:Python royal 35.JPG. The image of the pastel ball python shows the whole animal, is of high resolution, and is generally just a good picture. But it's not a picture of a normal ball python. The other image has only a small portion of the face of the python in focus, but it is apparently a more typical member of its species, and its actually hanging on what is apparently a branch. While the resolution is reasonably large, the image isn't technically as good as that of the pastel python. I suggest putting Image:Python royal 35.JPG in the taxobox and Image:Python Regius Pastel.jpg in the "Captivity" section. What do others think? Enuja (talk) 22:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
From the information provided above by Jwinius, I'm convinced that Image:Python Regius Pastel.jpg is the more descriptive and more appropriate image for the taxo-box. It shows the whole animal, it's in focus on the whole animal, and as long as the coloring is not too abnormal (Jwinius's source quote convinces me), it's a better image. Jhall, it's not that these yellow color morphs have just "been found" in the wild (like an albino), it's that they "frequently occur." Another possible solution is to get a better image of this python for the page, that all editors would agree on. I looked in the Pythonidae category on Wikimedia commons and didn't find anything better (it's got lots of great images of Python morulus, though), but any freely licensed photo (like one you took, and want to give to Wikipedia!) would work. Enuja (talk) 22:32, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Can someone explain the merits of the outline format that is currently in place? I personally prefer a more categorized layout, such as the previous one [8]. To me, this seems to flow better than the current one. There seems to be a distaste for subheadings in the present one, and I'm curious what the arguments for that are? Jhall1468 16:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I've just uploaded some nice ball python pics to wikimedia, including pictures of a gravid python, a python brooding eggs, incubating ball python eggs, and an albino ball python. These may make a nice addition to this article in appropriate places, if people wish to expand a bit on ball python reproduction and add something about color mutations in this article. They can be found on the Python regius page on wikimedia. This article seems very sparse on details, and could use some fleshing out. What would folks think about a page specifically discussing color and pattern mutations in snakes? (WITHOUT commercial links, of course). Would this be too narrowly focused? I would think the fact that it has generated a large commercial market should be worthy of note in an encyclopedia article, for its cultural impact. Perhaps an article on color and pattern mutations in pet animals in general, and their significance relating to the pet trade? Winged_Wolf 2:20 AM, 05 June 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.198.204.117 ( talk) 07:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
My point was that a page on keeping these animals as pets would be a welcome addition to Wikipedia. Wikipedia includes references to various cat and dog breeds--not merely a natural history article on Canis lupus familiaris (for example). If this article is to be kept as only a reference for wild ball pythons, then it stands to reason that a separate article for captive ball pythons should be created--one that does include basic husbandry, history of keeping and breeding, color mutations, and genetics, as well as articles on each color morph and their history. I see these subjects as being of interest to people in general--the Wikipedia is supposed to be a thorough encyclopedia, after all. Because these animals ARE so commonly kept, it only makes sense to create articles on them in much the same way we have for other pet species (ie, dogs, cats, horses, etc). 68.13.83.50 ( talk) 10:09, 31 December 2009 (UTC) Winged_Wolf ( talk) 4:09, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
i want to find out how many times to feed a baby ball python —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.239.79 ( talk) 12:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm changing the recommended weight of male ball pythons, as it is ludicrously high--even the most conservative captive breeders state that 800 grams is sufficient weight, not 900. If this is a natural history article, you should realize that wild females will breed at around 1200 grams, and wild males at 500 grams or even less. Males will breed as soon as they are producing sperm, which they may begin to do when they're only 6 months old and under 400 grams! Most captive breeders will breed males at 500 grams, and they do just fine. Upon making that edit, I discovered much of the rest of the information in that area was also incorrect--the incubation time, the age at which they reach sexual maturity, etc. I have corrected it. I sometimes wonder if people just grab random scholarly-sounding sites for references without double-checking to see if they are correct. Captive breeding of these animals has given us ample information on their reproduction. Being wild doesn't add an extra month to incubation (for example). I realize I haven't replaced the references, but I will get around to that, or someone else can do it. It should not be difficult to find supporting references for the CORRECT info. Winged Wolf ( talk) 20:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC) Winged_Wolf ( talk) 13:11, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
I have now replaced the references. Winged Wolf ( talk) 20:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC) Winged_Wolf ( talk) 14:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Just a few minor corrections to the captive care area. These snakes actually prefer a smaller cage for their size than most animals, as they spend most of their time in the wild hiding in burrows. The most important captive care information regards proper temperatures, humidity, and hiding areas, so I have added information on environmental needs. I removed the reference, as some of the information from it was incorrect. If a reference is required for any of the changes I have made, add "The Complete Ball Python by Kevin McCurley", which is a published book. 68.13.83.50 ( talk) 10:03, 31 December 2009 (UTC) Winged_Wolf ( talk) 19:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Please don't revert this--20 gallon long is actually the correct size tank for all but the very largest female ball pythons. Males and small females will be happy for their entire lives in a 20 gallon long tank. I did specify that it should be a long style tank, not a standard or tall tank. This does make a difference in floor space. 68.13.83.50 ( talk) 20:24, 31 December 2009 (UTC) Winged_Wolf ( talk) 14:24, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
If anyone has any ideas for a juvenile python that refuses to eat a frozen mouse please feel free to give me a few tips. He is 18 inches long. I think he usually ate live mice once weekly. He hasn't eaten in 2 weeks and has just finished shedding. I tried 3 times to give him a warmed frozen mouse and he refuses to eat it. I tried tying a string to it's tail to make it look alive and he just recoils at the sight of it. I know they can go some time (up to 2 months ) without eating but I am still concern. I would welcome any ideas you may have.
Kim —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.101.105.254 ( talk) 22:58, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm not here to argue,ask or shove anything down anyone's throat. I am an owner of three Ball Pythons,by my own observations, I have an extraordinary male that is 5'2",unheard of. A female 4'8"with an appetite that is voracious, she has consumed 5 full grown mice in one feeding or 2 medium rats the usual dinner for her bi-weekly or weekly. The other is still new to me and has not shown any odd characteristics. I know you are like who is this guy,I want proof. I also have a friend that had 2 himself, a male and female both over 4'. His Male would not eat and did not eat for a year to answer your question. One possible food source he may like would be a baby chicken newly hatched. This was said by me and I had not made a signature at the time now I have one and I hope this will add my signature, if not, this edit will show it now for any one that wishes to comment on my posting in this discussion, James Mullins @ weaselistic1@yahoo.com—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.164.73.149 ( talk) 03:45, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
I think it would be beneficial to add a little information about housing in sterilite containers - this is very cost effective and could prove to be helpful for upcoming breeders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stboser ( talk • contribs) 22:54, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
I wonder what the problem is, is it a lack of available pictures with the right license? Or are there reasons to NOT include pictures of some varieties breeders have produced?
There are many mutations that impact the pattern, the coloration, or both, and breeders deliberately combine them to attain certain optics.
for those that have not seen it, external links to 3 stunning examples i especially like: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/vpi-axanthic-clown/ this is a double recessive, "VPI Axanthic" knocks out the browns and yellows and "Clown" dramatically alters the pattern. http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/the-corcra-ball/ this is a 3-gene combination of 3 incomplete dominant genes: Mystic, Mojave and Enchi. Mystic and Mojave are allelic, the genes sit on the same locus and interact in a special way. http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/banana-ghi/ this is a 2-gene combination of two incomplete dominant genes, Banana and GHI, both genes are on their own very valuable and in high demand. http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/highway-ball/ another 2-gene combination of two allelic genes.
Heck, we could do an entire article on ball python designer morphs. Many professional breeders combine and stack up genes for a living, and prices for the right combinations of rare and valuable genes can easily reach into the tens of thousnds of dollars. Breeders combine up to 7 different genes in their quest to produce snakes with new optics. So far there are over 100 different genes that breeders use to manipulate color and pattern and over 2000 combinations of these genes. I really wonder why none of this is to be found anywhere on Wikipedia, whats the holdup, where is the roadblock? 188.104.112.229 ( talk) 19:01, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 18:10, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Python regius → Ball python – This very well-known (esp. as a popular pet) snake species has a well-established unambiguous common name, so we should use that name as the article title per WP:COMMONNAME / WP:NCFAUNA. It does also have another common name ("royal python"), but "ball python" seems to be its most common name (and also seems more objectively descriptive than "royal python"). Certainly "ball python" is more common than the current name, "Python regius". (There may also be an WP:ENGVAR issue here, as the article was apparently originally written in American English, and "ball python" may be more common in American English than in other varieties.) The suggested destination name is already a redirect to this article, and it was the original name of the article until someone moved it in 2007 while commenting that "Scientific names should be used for page names on biological organisms whenever possible to avoid confusion". That edit summary statement seems contrary to current Wikipedia article titling guidelines, which recommend the use of common names. Just after the move in 2007, there was an RM discussion of the same suggestion that ended with no consensus but "no prejudice against relisting". Now I am relisting it, and suggesting to revert that move. — BarrelProof ( talk) 23:56, 28 August 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 ( talk) 16:48, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
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The scientific classification in this article lists ball pythons as belonging to the kingdom Plantae, which is obviously not true as pythons are not plants. The clades, order, family, genus, and species listed on the ball python article are also plants. I do not know the full proper classification for ball pythons so I cannot edit this myself, but it definitely needs fixing.
130.245.192.11 ( talk) 04:49, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
Is there a reference for the claim that these snakes shiver while incubating their eggs? I've removed that bit (hopefully temporarily) because I can't find a source to back it up. The only mention of this behavior I've been able to find is for the Burmese python, the reticulated python, and Australian diamond python, whereas some other species like the African rock python don't shiver: in other words, not all pythons do it, and from what I can tell it only seems to be documented in Asian and Australian species so far. I'd like it to be true, but given how commonly these animals are bred in captivity, you'd think it would be better documented if it was. 2601:342:100:9000:69CD:6AA6:55AA:D5AA ( talk) 13:36, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
I believe the general husbandry section has deviated away from functioning as an encyclopedia entry and is instead functioning as a tutorial, which is generally not appropriate for Wikipedia.
For example, the featured article on the African Lion does not have a section on lion husbandry, because it is an encyclopedia article about a wild animal, not a husbandry guide. Even the article on the dog does not contain how-to husbandry information. I suggest it be deleted or at least pared down to more appropriately reflect an encyclopedic tone. Does anyone have thoughts or objections?
Connorlong90 ( talk) 04:54, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
Types of ball pythons. 2603:9005:700:114:88AA:4829:F262:7B84 ( talk) 16:26, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
As you may know Ball pythons are wonderful pets for people who are new to having snakes as pets. They eat well and are very sweet. Plus, There are many different kinds of morphs to pick form. This snake is a lovable and it sure will side it way to slide its way to your heart. 97.107.90.67 ( talk) 22:20, 2 July 2023 (UTC)