This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Pykrete article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The test ship made in the canadian rockies was just regular ice, not pykrete. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.255.141.66 ( talk) 21:59, 1 December 2004
Pykrete can be made using any fiberous material. You are not limmeted to sawdust or woodpulp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.240.199.97 ( talk) 19:38, 17 April 2005
how long is "quite a while" ?-- GregLoutsenko 18:27, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The article suggests, "You could use it to make cold compresses that mold to your body and last quite a while." Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't the low thermal conductivity of pykrete (i.e. why it melts so slowly) prevent the "cold compress" from doing its intended job? To be effective, a cold compress should be thermally conductive, draw heat from your body, and melt itself rather efficiently, shouldn't it? -- Ds13 July 3, 2005 05:03 (UTC)
14% by volume or weight? volume would be mostly ice, weight would be predominantly sawdust.
Do you have any idea as to the weight of the mixture itself? (say per square inch?)
When the pykrete melt and freeze? Because if the ship was made then this might effect the areas it can travel to.
I was curious about this sentence in the article:
Does this mean under pressure, such as when a bullet slams into it, ice is not readily pushed out of the way of the bullet, like say flesh might be? If so, is the presence of the wood pulp just to keep the ice from shattering, such as rebar in concrete, instead of the wood actually adding bullet-stopping capability on its own? -- Fxer 09:36, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
Is this a myth?
http://www.GoodeveCa.net/CFGoodeve/pykrete.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.250.212.144 ( talk) 22:34, 24 October 2006
No, it isn't. Its quite well documented. A small incomplete article is here ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk), but the History channel has also done at least one documentary on it and it has been released from the official secrets act. Also, as such, the reference to the 'original myth, should technically be removed from the Mythbuster's section.
Moved from a bad edit to the main article:
FWIW: This reference documents some of the "citation wanted" tags in the pykrete article.
I don't seem to have the book any more, but this is how it appears in the British Library site:
LAMPE, David. Pyke, the Unknown Genius. [With plates, including portraits.] 1959 010601.a.14.
Hope that helps someone! Sorry, I don't know offhand how to edit this to taste. Possibly someone at your end can use the information at leisure.Cheers,
Jon
-- Ry Jones 18:29, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
diff — LOL T/ C 06:37, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
The article says that the sawdust raises the melting point but not by how much. Does anyone know what the melting point of Pykrete is?
Would the type of material used affect the durability of the pykrete? For example, by using a material like pieces of Kevlar instead of sawdust increase the pykrete’s strength?
There is no discussion of the costs of the basic pykrete in comparison to concrete, nor that of a pykrete craft that would be maintained for a longer time. -- Cimon avaro; on a pogostick. 11:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Without a grain it might strangely be true.
This cleanup just wiped out two of the four pictures. Does anybody know where they came from to re-list them as fair use? I'm linking to the diff so we won't forget the descriptions. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 12:31, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
... but has anybody here read WP:NOR?
Or to put it another way, just because the block shown allowed bullets to penetrate doesn't mean the historical formulation might not have actually created ricochets. 204.186.14.45 23:02, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Since sawdust is lighter than water it would float on the water prior to freezing - hence the pykerete would have to actually be a block of ice with a layer of sawdust frozen on one side of it, right?
The article stated: "Pykrete has a crush resistance of greater than 21 megapascals (3,000 psi) so a 25 mm (1 in) column could support the weight of a typical car." - This sentence made no sense. If the 25mm/1 inch dimension referred to the cross section, as one can infer that it did, then the units should have been square mm or inches. However, the sentence was still misleading because it assumed some unspecified short column length without stating so. As the column gets longer, at some point the increasing slenderness ratio (Kl/r) would dictate a buckling failure long before the crush resistance could be reached. Rodney420 ( talk) 19:33, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I haven't visited the Pykrete page for a while, but I just did, and found that a lot of dubious facts seem to have crept in (and some cautionary statements removed)! This apparently was the result of a major edit by one 'Rich257' on 18 Oct 2006. Consequently I've just reverted the article back to its state before that point. A few new reasonable-looking facts have been added since then, which should be merged in, but I think it's more important that the errors be erased [as much as one can talk about "errors" with Pykrete -- nothing is certain in that area!] If anyone (such as Rich257!) has reason to think the removed stuff should in fact be included, *please* use this talk page to explain why! Thanks -- Pete G. ( talk) 02:07, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
hi there, there is no factual baisis for the nyp prior claim —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.44.114.50 ( talk) 13:31, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Anybody know if mythbusters Super Pykrete (made with newspaper instead of woodpulp/sawdust for its longer fibers) deserves some honorable mention and/or if they really invented it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.226.245.40 ( talk) 21:00, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I think a section with the latest Mythbusters experiment using Pykrete to build a boat would be a good addition to the page. Sailingsumo ( talk) 01:37, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
The contents of the section critical of the mythbusters' conclusions sounds reasonable to me, in general. But unless it can be given good sourcing to who, external to Wikipedia, has made the criticism, it really looks to me as if it is the section's author who is making this criticism. And this would then most definitely be Original Research, and thus be improper to have here on the page. - TexasAndroid ( talk) 22:16, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
I just edited the article to change the link to ".45 caliber" in the Mythbusters section. The old link went to the article for .45 ACP, which is a handgun round. I did a little digging with the show paused, and the rifle they used is a lever-action Winchester Model 1866 chambered for the .45-70 cartridge. The narrator on the show describes the bullet as a ".45 caliber slug," and a lever-action rifle chambered in .45 ACP would be very unlikely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.48.48.242 ( talk) 02:16, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Pykrete usefull in altering hurricanes ?
I wonder iff a floating flat pykrete area can prevent hurricanes there where some plans using icebergs to cool down ocean surfages, and isolating the warm ocean from the atmosphere above But the transport of these giant icebergs would be the main obstacle in testing this idea.
but what if we use thin slates of pykrete just to isolate the oceans "hotspots" pykrete would be more easy in transport because you can make it rather light and flat you do not need an giant iceberg but just the large surfage area of a flat slate of pykrete. and you can easely move the plate of pykrete with the movement of the warm ocean.
it will not be cheap or easy but compaired to a whole areas flooded and collapsed like Louisiana it would be peanuts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.144.150.237 ( talk) 19:44, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia's own definition of the term 'alloy', the word is used to describe a solution and/or other mixture of different metals or metals and other elements. As far as I can tell, Pykrete is, per the definition, not an alloy, as its only listed ingredients are ice and wood pulp, neither of which are metals. The reference to the alloy status of Pykrete is only supported by one footnote document, which also does not seem to be accurate regarding its own terminology. 62.99.149.110 ( talk) 22:10, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
References
I was looking at the comparison of ice and Pykrete and was surprised to see that Pykrete is heaver than ice. The question arises; how did it get heaver when sawdust replaced 14 % of the water?
Looking further I came up with a cubic meter of water weighing 1000Kg, A cubic meter of ice at 919Kg (chart in article says 910) and cubic meter of Pykrete at 980Kg. It left me wondering how adding sawdust to ice could result in an increase in density. Maybe this number is wrong or maybe the sawdust caused the water to expand less as it crystallized?
My understanding from the article was that the ratio of water to sawdust was measured by weight. I'm just trying to figure out how you replace water with an equal weight of sawdust and come out heaver. Corumplex ( talk) 23:45, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Pykrete article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The test ship made in the canadian rockies was just regular ice, not pykrete. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.255.141.66 ( talk) 21:59, 1 December 2004
Pykrete can be made using any fiberous material. You are not limmeted to sawdust or woodpulp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.240.199.97 ( talk) 19:38, 17 April 2005
how long is "quite a while" ?-- GregLoutsenko 18:27, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The article suggests, "You could use it to make cold compresses that mold to your body and last quite a while." Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't the low thermal conductivity of pykrete (i.e. why it melts so slowly) prevent the "cold compress" from doing its intended job? To be effective, a cold compress should be thermally conductive, draw heat from your body, and melt itself rather efficiently, shouldn't it? -- Ds13 July 3, 2005 05:03 (UTC)
14% by volume or weight? volume would be mostly ice, weight would be predominantly sawdust.
Do you have any idea as to the weight of the mixture itself? (say per square inch?)
When the pykrete melt and freeze? Because if the ship was made then this might effect the areas it can travel to.
I was curious about this sentence in the article:
Does this mean under pressure, such as when a bullet slams into it, ice is not readily pushed out of the way of the bullet, like say flesh might be? If so, is the presence of the wood pulp just to keep the ice from shattering, such as rebar in concrete, instead of the wood actually adding bullet-stopping capability on its own? -- Fxer 09:36, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
Is this a myth?
http://www.GoodeveCa.net/CFGoodeve/pykrete.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.250.212.144 ( talk) 22:34, 24 October 2006
No, it isn't. Its quite well documented. A small incomplete article is here ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk), but the History channel has also done at least one documentary on it and it has been released from the official secrets act. Also, as such, the reference to the 'original myth, should technically be removed from the Mythbuster's section.
Moved from a bad edit to the main article:
FWIW: This reference documents some of the "citation wanted" tags in the pykrete article.
I don't seem to have the book any more, but this is how it appears in the British Library site:
LAMPE, David. Pyke, the Unknown Genius. [With plates, including portraits.] 1959 010601.a.14.
Hope that helps someone! Sorry, I don't know offhand how to edit this to taste. Possibly someone at your end can use the information at leisure.Cheers,
Jon
-- Ry Jones 18:29, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
diff — LOL T/ C 06:37, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
The article says that the sawdust raises the melting point but not by how much. Does anyone know what the melting point of Pykrete is?
Would the type of material used affect the durability of the pykrete? For example, by using a material like pieces of Kevlar instead of sawdust increase the pykrete’s strength?
There is no discussion of the costs of the basic pykrete in comparison to concrete, nor that of a pykrete craft that would be maintained for a longer time. -- Cimon avaro; on a pogostick. 11:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Without a grain it might strangely be true.
This cleanup just wiped out two of the four pictures. Does anybody know where they came from to re-list them as fair use? I'm linking to the diff so we won't forget the descriptions. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 12:31, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
... but has anybody here read WP:NOR?
Or to put it another way, just because the block shown allowed bullets to penetrate doesn't mean the historical formulation might not have actually created ricochets. 204.186.14.45 23:02, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Since sawdust is lighter than water it would float on the water prior to freezing - hence the pykerete would have to actually be a block of ice with a layer of sawdust frozen on one side of it, right?
The article stated: "Pykrete has a crush resistance of greater than 21 megapascals (3,000 psi) so a 25 mm (1 in) column could support the weight of a typical car." - This sentence made no sense. If the 25mm/1 inch dimension referred to the cross section, as one can infer that it did, then the units should have been square mm or inches. However, the sentence was still misleading because it assumed some unspecified short column length without stating so. As the column gets longer, at some point the increasing slenderness ratio (Kl/r) would dictate a buckling failure long before the crush resistance could be reached. Rodney420 ( talk) 19:33, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I haven't visited the Pykrete page for a while, but I just did, and found that a lot of dubious facts seem to have crept in (and some cautionary statements removed)! This apparently was the result of a major edit by one 'Rich257' on 18 Oct 2006. Consequently I've just reverted the article back to its state before that point. A few new reasonable-looking facts have been added since then, which should be merged in, but I think it's more important that the errors be erased [as much as one can talk about "errors" with Pykrete -- nothing is certain in that area!] If anyone (such as Rich257!) has reason to think the removed stuff should in fact be included, *please* use this talk page to explain why! Thanks -- Pete G. ( talk) 02:07, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
hi there, there is no factual baisis for the nyp prior claim —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.44.114.50 ( talk) 13:31, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Anybody know if mythbusters Super Pykrete (made with newspaper instead of woodpulp/sawdust for its longer fibers) deserves some honorable mention and/or if they really invented it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.226.245.40 ( talk) 21:00, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I think a section with the latest Mythbusters experiment using Pykrete to build a boat would be a good addition to the page. Sailingsumo ( talk) 01:37, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
The contents of the section critical of the mythbusters' conclusions sounds reasonable to me, in general. But unless it can be given good sourcing to who, external to Wikipedia, has made the criticism, it really looks to me as if it is the section's author who is making this criticism. And this would then most definitely be Original Research, and thus be improper to have here on the page. - TexasAndroid ( talk) 22:16, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
I just edited the article to change the link to ".45 caliber" in the Mythbusters section. The old link went to the article for .45 ACP, which is a handgun round. I did a little digging with the show paused, and the rifle they used is a lever-action Winchester Model 1866 chambered for the .45-70 cartridge. The narrator on the show describes the bullet as a ".45 caliber slug," and a lever-action rifle chambered in .45 ACP would be very unlikely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.48.48.242 ( talk) 02:16, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Pykrete usefull in altering hurricanes ?
I wonder iff a floating flat pykrete area can prevent hurricanes there where some plans using icebergs to cool down ocean surfages, and isolating the warm ocean from the atmosphere above But the transport of these giant icebergs would be the main obstacle in testing this idea.
but what if we use thin slates of pykrete just to isolate the oceans "hotspots" pykrete would be more easy in transport because you can make it rather light and flat you do not need an giant iceberg but just the large surfage area of a flat slate of pykrete. and you can easely move the plate of pykrete with the movement of the warm ocean.
it will not be cheap or easy but compaired to a whole areas flooded and collapsed like Louisiana it would be peanuts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.144.150.237 ( talk) 19:44, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia's own definition of the term 'alloy', the word is used to describe a solution and/or other mixture of different metals or metals and other elements. As far as I can tell, Pykrete is, per the definition, not an alloy, as its only listed ingredients are ice and wood pulp, neither of which are metals. The reference to the alloy status of Pykrete is only supported by one footnote document, which also does not seem to be accurate regarding its own terminology. 62.99.149.110 ( talk) 22:10, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
References
I was looking at the comparison of ice and Pykrete and was surprised to see that Pykrete is heaver than ice. The question arises; how did it get heaver when sawdust replaced 14 % of the water?
Looking further I came up with a cubic meter of water weighing 1000Kg, A cubic meter of ice at 919Kg (chart in article says 910) and cubic meter of Pykrete at 980Kg. It left me wondering how adding sawdust to ice could result in an increase in density. Maybe this number is wrong or maybe the sawdust caused the water to expand less as it crystallized?
My understanding from the article was that the ratio of water to sawdust was measured by weight. I'm just trying to figure out how you replace water with an equal weight of sawdust and come out heaver. Corumplex ( talk) 23:45, 25 December 2021 (UTC)