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Until the war, the role of public schools in preparing pupils for the gentlemanly elite meant that such education, particularly in its classical focus and social mannerism, clarification needed became a mark of the ruling class.
The reference may be :
Journal Article The Gentleman Ideal and the Maintenance of a Political Elite: Two Case Studies: Confucian Education in the Tang, Sung, Ming and Ching Dynasties; and the Late Victorian Public Schools (1870-1914) Rupert H. Wilkinson Sociology of Education Vol. 37, No. 1 (Autumn, 1963), pp. 9-26 Published by: American Sociological Association DOI: 10.2307/2112137 https://www.jstor.org/stable/2112137
This needs a JSTOR account in order to check. I am not sure if the concept should be manners, or mannerisms but not mannerism (singular)
ClemRutter ( talk) 18:06, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
I note the link to the above list was deleted on 4/10/21, when the list itself was deleted. I am disappointed to see this list disappear. It was deleted, noting the discussion, on grounds of 'lack of notability', 'advertising/marketing/puffery', 'trivia'. It is too late for me to join the deletion discussion but I do fundamentally disagree. The value of the list is being part of UK and Commonwealth social and economic history evidencing the role of (mostly) public schools in proving the officer class in the UK armed forces. Indeed it also shows how officers may well be over represented as recipients of this medal. I am unsure how this deletion may be appealed. Hjamesberglen
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Chiswick Chap ( talk · contribs) 20:22, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
Well, I considered a quick fail for this article as there are quite a few basic things wrong with it. But there is much that is good here, and the subject certainly deserves decent coverage. I'll proceed in stages so as not to waste time making comments that don't get actioned.
Hjamesberglen - I think we're now ready to address the issues below. Could you respond to each item please? I do not believe they will take at all long. Probably the lists just need to be deleted, honestly, and we can move on to GA. All the best, Chiswick Chap ( talk) 19:48, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
1. Definition
2. History
2.1 Early ...
...
2.6 Overseas
3. Curriculum
4. Charitable status
5. Schools for the ruling class
6. In the arts
6.1 Literature
6.2 Theatre and film
6.3 Documentaries
If that all works then I'll have a detailed look through the article. A hint: check that all statements are reliably cited. Good luck! Chiswick Chap ( talk) 20:22, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
<s?Well, I see editing is continuing apace, so I will wait until the article stabilizes. Meanwhile, I've checked the top few citations, and many are incomplete (as indicated in the "cn" tags) while a few are broken. Some of the "title"s are descriptions rather than the actual titles given; authors, publishers, and page ranges are missing, etc. I expect this will be true throughout the article, so I suggest you check EVERY citation for completeness and accuracy please. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 10:47, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
The uncited/primary sourced lists in the 'Scotland and Ireland' and 'Overseas expansion' chapters are now removed. This leaves 'Television documentaries' although all now have reliable sources and most have secondary citation. There is also something of a rationale for this list. However my main thinking on this is if we can have a bibliography to allow readers to go deeper into this subject if they wish, why can't we also provide a list of television documentaries most of which unsurprisingly are easily located with an internet search?
This article now presents a coherent overview of Britain's "public schools", with good sources and well-chosen illustrations. As such, it is a worthy GA and you should be proud of your accomplishment. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 01:17, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
I am removing (temporarily) the ISIS definiition of 1981. I eventually sourced this. It is a 22 page A5 size booklet (40 pence at the time!). The definition used in the article is heavily paraphrased or even embellished from that of the booklet. In short, as it stands it is not a good citation. Unfortunately I do not have this little gem with me at the moment and I may be a month away from seeing it again. When I get access again I will cite the correct ISIS definition of 1981. Also I am reformatting in sequence and also style. Hjamesberglen ( talk) 18:41, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
Hjamesberglen: that's fine, I don't see it as a showstopper for the GAN. If you can tidy up the lists of schools overseas and of TV documentaries - we just need a couple of cited lines about the topics, not primary-cited lists of examples in each case - we can proceed to GA. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 18:51, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
Public schools were originally so named because they were operated by the people, in contradistinction to church schools, which weren't. This should be included in the lead paragraph; instead of being squeezed out like juice from a recalcitrant lemon later in the article. Nuttyskin ( talk) 16:10, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Public school (United Kingdom) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 360 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | Public school (United Kingdom) has been listed as one of the
Social sciences and society good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: January 16, 2023. ( Reviewed version). |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
Until the war, the role of public schools in preparing pupils for the gentlemanly elite meant that such education, particularly in its classical focus and social mannerism, clarification needed became a mark of the ruling class.
The reference may be :
Journal Article The Gentleman Ideal and the Maintenance of a Political Elite: Two Case Studies: Confucian Education in the Tang, Sung, Ming and Ching Dynasties; and the Late Victorian Public Schools (1870-1914) Rupert H. Wilkinson Sociology of Education Vol. 37, No. 1 (Autumn, 1963), pp. 9-26 Published by: American Sociological Association DOI: 10.2307/2112137 https://www.jstor.org/stable/2112137
This needs a JSTOR account in order to check. I am not sure if the concept should be manners, or mannerisms but not mannerism (singular)
ClemRutter ( talk) 18:06, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
I note the link to the above list was deleted on 4/10/21, when the list itself was deleted. I am disappointed to see this list disappear. It was deleted, noting the discussion, on grounds of 'lack of notability', 'advertising/marketing/puffery', 'trivia'. It is too late for me to join the deletion discussion but I do fundamentally disagree. The value of the list is being part of UK and Commonwealth social and economic history evidencing the role of (mostly) public schools in proving the officer class in the UK armed forces. Indeed it also shows how officers may well be over represented as recipients of this medal. I am unsure how this deletion may be appealed. Hjamesberglen
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Chiswick Chap ( talk · contribs) 20:22, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
Well, I considered a quick fail for this article as there are quite a few basic things wrong with it. But there is much that is good here, and the subject certainly deserves decent coverage. I'll proceed in stages so as not to waste time making comments that don't get actioned.
Hjamesberglen - I think we're now ready to address the issues below. Could you respond to each item please? I do not believe they will take at all long. Probably the lists just need to be deleted, honestly, and we can move on to GA. All the best, Chiswick Chap ( talk) 19:48, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
1. Definition
2. History
2.1 Early ...
...
2.6 Overseas
3. Curriculum
4. Charitable status
5. Schools for the ruling class
6. In the arts
6.1 Literature
6.2 Theatre and film
6.3 Documentaries
If that all works then I'll have a detailed look through the article. A hint: check that all statements are reliably cited. Good luck! Chiswick Chap ( talk) 20:22, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
<s?Well, I see editing is continuing apace, so I will wait until the article stabilizes. Meanwhile, I've checked the top few citations, and many are incomplete (as indicated in the "cn" tags) while a few are broken. Some of the "title"s are descriptions rather than the actual titles given; authors, publishers, and page ranges are missing, etc. I expect this will be true throughout the article, so I suggest you check EVERY citation for completeness and accuracy please. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 10:47, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
The uncited/primary sourced lists in the 'Scotland and Ireland' and 'Overseas expansion' chapters are now removed. This leaves 'Television documentaries' although all now have reliable sources and most have secondary citation. There is also something of a rationale for this list. However my main thinking on this is if we can have a bibliography to allow readers to go deeper into this subject if they wish, why can't we also provide a list of television documentaries most of which unsurprisingly are easily located with an internet search?
This article now presents a coherent overview of Britain's "public schools", with good sources and well-chosen illustrations. As such, it is a worthy GA and you should be proud of your accomplishment. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 01:17, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
I am removing (temporarily) the ISIS definiition of 1981. I eventually sourced this. It is a 22 page A5 size booklet (40 pence at the time!). The definition used in the article is heavily paraphrased or even embellished from that of the booklet. In short, as it stands it is not a good citation. Unfortunately I do not have this little gem with me at the moment and I may be a month away from seeing it again. When I get access again I will cite the correct ISIS definition of 1981. Also I am reformatting in sequence and also style. Hjamesberglen ( talk) 18:41, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
Hjamesberglen: that's fine, I don't see it as a showstopper for the GAN. If you can tidy up the lists of schools overseas and of TV documentaries - we just need a couple of cited lines about the topics, not primary-cited lists of examples in each case - we can proceed to GA. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 18:51, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
Public schools were originally so named because they were operated by the people, in contradistinction to church schools, which weren't. This should be included in the lead paragraph; instead of being squeezed out like juice from a recalcitrant lemon later in the article. Nuttyskin ( talk) 16:10, 23 September 2023 (UTC)