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Corensearchbot is correct but this is my own work. Katzmik ( talk) 09:59, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I included the gnu permission at my homepage as per the instructions given in the corensearchbot message. Katzmik ( talk) 10:16, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
It seems to be the custom at wikipedia to list the first name first, as a matter of fact. If this is the case, then this move is not justified. Could somebody comment? Incidentally, I noticed recently that "Pu" means "simple". Could a person knowledgeable in the appropriate language, make a comment in the article? Katzmik ( talk) 17:29, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
copying from WPM:
No, Pu(蒲)!=Pu(朴=simple), the surname 蒲 means cattai,wine or a name of palace. Chinese (specially from China after 1949) name should be write as standardlized style(Surname Givenname, with no ","). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keyi ( talk • contribs) 22:34, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
The article was recently redirected by placing the last name first. What are the wiki standards in this area? Katzmik ( talk) 21:05, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
Following Chiang Kai-shek's ouster from the mainland in 1949, there was apparently a wave of recalls of Chinese academics working in the West. One such case was Wu, Wen Tsün, a student of Ehresmann's in Paris, who one day disappeared from France without saying a word to anyone, according to eyewitness testimony by Marcel Berger. [1]
Pu may have also been forced to return to the mainland by the communist authorities.
Also no evidence, He is the Chairman of the department of Sichuan Univ. 1952-1984, honorary Chairman until his dealth. And (copy from http://www.swxl.com.cn/math/ShowArticle.asp?ArticleID=313)
蒲保明除担任四川大学数学系主任(1952——1984),名誉系主任(1984——),四川大学数学研究所副所长(1978——1984)外,还担任过多种社会职务和学术职务.
(1)主要社会职务.四川省政协委员(1963——1977),四川省人民代表(1978——),九三学社四川省委员会顾问(1984——)等.
(2)重要学术职务.中国数学会理事(1980——),基础数学博士导师(第一批,1981——),中国模糊数学与模糊系统学会第一届理事长(1983——1985),中国数学会成都分会理事兼秘书长(1954——1978),四川省数学会副理事长(1978——1987),名誉理事长(1987年后),东北一般拓扑学会顾问,高等学校理科数学力学教材编审委员会委员,以及多种数学丛书和杂志的主编、编委等.
Was he unable?-- 刻意 10:56, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
(1)主要社会职务.四川省政协委员(1963——1977),四川省人民代表(1978——),九三学社四川省委员会顾问(1984——)等.
A deputy to the CPPCC in Sichuan(1963—1977), a deputy to the NPC in Sichuan(1978—), these titles mean he was very repected by the communist authorities, even in the culture revolutionary(1966-1976). -- 刻意 11:14, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
One thing that puzzles me when I look over this discussion is how a mathematics book, which includes a smattering of history and the author's speculation on the history, becomes used as a source in a BLP to make some serious charges. If Katz's book is anything like most math books, the history portion is hardly going to be as seriously researched, say, like the way a historian or biographer would. Katz's mistaken implication about Boshisheng daoshi is an indication of such. -- C S ( talk) 10:53, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Trotsky as I recall went to Mexico as he wished. The remark quoted in the title of this subsection ("He could go as he wish") may be revealing of the objectivity of user:Keyi. Katzmik ( talk) 16:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Trosky was different for political reason( he was killed by KGB).
Giving a short list of Chinese scholars for compare,
Stay in U.S.
(These 3 men have good relationship with China after 1980, as you know Chern was died in China 4 years ago) Return
At the beginning of 1950s, new China was highly doubted by overseas Chinese,return was respected by the authorities. As you see, Pu became the chair when he return. These people may disappointed in the following years. Considering what happened in 1960s&1970s and their contributions contrast with who stayed in U.S., staying is a better choice for the half of individuals. I had not heared who was forced back to China in that ages. Today, a lot of (maybe almost) Chinese students stay in U.S.-- Keyi 17:01, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
-- Keyi 05:39, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
-- Keyi 20:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
User:Keyi wrote above: I will welcome Third opinion or an arbitration.--Keyi 08:44, 1 January 2009 (UTC) Now Jitse has been selflessly providing such a third opinion, so administrative complications would seem to be unnecessary. Katzmik ( talk) 12:59, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I agree that the Cultural Revolution is infamous; but that is my opinion. It has no place in an article on the history of mathematics, although Pu's actual sufferings in the period would. Similarly, Augustin Louis Cauchy is no place for invective against the French Revolution.
We are not here to avoid the misunderstandings of the semi-literate; that is what Simple Wikipedia is for. Any literate reader of English calls that period the Cultural Revolution; anybody who thinks it "cultured and refined" is either unaware that English words are polyvalent (and insofar illiterate) or too hopelessly Maoist to be persuaded by an adjective here. Tell me, are we to qualify "cultures of smallpox" because someone might think them refined or stylish? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:03, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Is it really true that a person who would be silly to take the term "Cultural Revolution" (with those capitals) as "cultural revolution" would be tipped off by "infamous Cultural Revolution" and take note it does not mean "infamous cultural revolution"? -- C S ( talk) 02:17, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Today, I copied the article from lib. It was not an authoritative [xxx], Pu Baoming was dead in 1988-02-24, that menory recieved by editors in 1989-04-07, published in April 1990, two years after his death. The four author were his students or colleagues, didnot stand for authoritie. This is a misunderstanding of XXX. What you known was from XXX, what he written was doubtable.
That article contain more information about Mr. Pu, It was a simplifyed version of http://www.swxl.com.cn/math/ShowArticle.asp?ArticleID=313 , this page says more details.
Pu's interest included meromorphic funcion, differential geometry, gerneral topology, fuzzy topolgy.
"(1) not allowed to supervise students during most of his career; (2) was not allowed to pursue research outside fuzzy mathematics which at the time was considered the only progressive form of mathematics in the mainland."
There is no evidences and references supporting your (2). (1) was written by XXX, also no evidences and references.
As for famous, I never use interjection in an article. -- Keyi 05:41, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
From conversations with senior mathematicians I have learned that during the sixties and seventies, a "relevance" standard was applied to mathematics in the mainland, to the detriment of pure mathematics, and to the benefit of fuzzy mathematics. I have only anecdotal evidence for this, though, having assumed until now that this is common knowledge. I would appreciate if anyone could point me in the right direction to learn more about it. I think of it in terms of Soviet "Lysenko doctrine" in biology that has replaced legitimate biology for a significant period, to the detriment of legitimate science (unlike Lysenko doctrine, fuzzy math is legitimate), as well as Soviet opposition to the big bang theory which was deemed either bourgeois or reactionary, I do not recall which. But perhaps such analogies are too easy. Katzmik ( talk) 14:35, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Is the Wade-Giles transliteration of his name really "Pu Baoming"? The Wade-Giles article says:
If his name is in Mandarin, then I think it should be P'u Paoming or something similar. 93.136.54.227 ( talk) 18:46, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 31 August 2008 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
Corensearchbot is correct but this is my own work. Katzmik ( talk) 09:59, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I included the gnu permission at my homepage as per the instructions given in the corensearchbot message. Katzmik ( talk) 10:16, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
It seems to be the custom at wikipedia to list the first name first, as a matter of fact. If this is the case, then this move is not justified. Could somebody comment? Incidentally, I noticed recently that "Pu" means "simple". Could a person knowledgeable in the appropriate language, make a comment in the article? Katzmik ( talk) 17:29, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
copying from WPM:
No, Pu(蒲)!=Pu(朴=simple), the surname 蒲 means cattai,wine or a name of palace. Chinese (specially from China after 1949) name should be write as standardlized style(Surname Givenname, with no ","). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keyi ( talk • contribs) 22:34, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
The article was recently redirected by placing the last name first. What are the wiki standards in this area? Katzmik ( talk) 21:05, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
Following Chiang Kai-shek's ouster from the mainland in 1949, there was apparently a wave of recalls of Chinese academics working in the West. One such case was Wu, Wen Tsün, a student of Ehresmann's in Paris, who one day disappeared from France without saying a word to anyone, according to eyewitness testimony by Marcel Berger. [1]
Pu may have also been forced to return to the mainland by the communist authorities.
Also no evidence, He is the Chairman of the department of Sichuan Univ. 1952-1984, honorary Chairman until his dealth. And (copy from http://www.swxl.com.cn/math/ShowArticle.asp?ArticleID=313)
蒲保明除担任四川大学数学系主任(1952——1984),名誉系主任(1984——),四川大学数学研究所副所长(1978——1984)外,还担任过多种社会职务和学术职务.
(1)主要社会职务.四川省政协委员(1963——1977),四川省人民代表(1978——),九三学社四川省委员会顾问(1984——)等.
(2)重要学术职务.中国数学会理事(1980——),基础数学博士导师(第一批,1981——),中国模糊数学与模糊系统学会第一届理事长(1983——1985),中国数学会成都分会理事兼秘书长(1954——1978),四川省数学会副理事长(1978——1987),名誉理事长(1987年后),东北一般拓扑学会顾问,高等学校理科数学力学教材编审委员会委员,以及多种数学丛书和杂志的主编、编委等.
Was he unable?-- 刻意 10:56, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
(1)主要社会职务.四川省政协委员(1963——1977),四川省人民代表(1978——),九三学社四川省委员会顾问(1984——)等.
A deputy to the CPPCC in Sichuan(1963—1977), a deputy to the NPC in Sichuan(1978—), these titles mean he was very repected by the communist authorities, even in the culture revolutionary(1966-1976). -- 刻意 11:14, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
One thing that puzzles me when I look over this discussion is how a mathematics book, which includes a smattering of history and the author's speculation on the history, becomes used as a source in a BLP to make some serious charges. If Katz's book is anything like most math books, the history portion is hardly going to be as seriously researched, say, like the way a historian or biographer would. Katz's mistaken implication about Boshisheng daoshi is an indication of such. -- C S ( talk) 10:53, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Trotsky as I recall went to Mexico as he wished. The remark quoted in the title of this subsection ("He could go as he wish") may be revealing of the objectivity of user:Keyi. Katzmik ( talk) 16:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Trosky was different for political reason( he was killed by KGB).
Giving a short list of Chinese scholars for compare,
Stay in U.S.
(These 3 men have good relationship with China after 1980, as you know Chern was died in China 4 years ago) Return
At the beginning of 1950s, new China was highly doubted by overseas Chinese,return was respected by the authorities. As you see, Pu became the chair when he return. These people may disappointed in the following years. Considering what happened in 1960s&1970s and their contributions contrast with who stayed in U.S., staying is a better choice for the half of individuals. I had not heared who was forced back to China in that ages. Today, a lot of (maybe almost) Chinese students stay in U.S.-- Keyi 17:01, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
-- Keyi 05:39, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
-- Keyi 20:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
User:Keyi wrote above: I will welcome Third opinion or an arbitration.--Keyi 08:44, 1 January 2009 (UTC) Now Jitse has been selflessly providing such a third opinion, so administrative complications would seem to be unnecessary. Katzmik ( talk) 12:59, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I agree that the Cultural Revolution is infamous; but that is my opinion. It has no place in an article on the history of mathematics, although Pu's actual sufferings in the period would. Similarly, Augustin Louis Cauchy is no place for invective against the French Revolution.
We are not here to avoid the misunderstandings of the semi-literate; that is what Simple Wikipedia is for. Any literate reader of English calls that period the Cultural Revolution; anybody who thinks it "cultured and refined" is either unaware that English words are polyvalent (and insofar illiterate) or too hopelessly Maoist to be persuaded by an adjective here. Tell me, are we to qualify "cultures of smallpox" because someone might think them refined or stylish? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:03, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Is it really true that a person who would be silly to take the term "Cultural Revolution" (with those capitals) as "cultural revolution" would be tipped off by "infamous Cultural Revolution" and take note it does not mean "infamous cultural revolution"? -- C S ( talk) 02:17, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Today, I copied the article from lib. It was not an authoritative [xxx], Pu Baoming was dead in 1988-02-24, that menory recieved by editors in 1989-04-07, published in April 1990, two years after his death. The four author were his students or colleagues, didnot stand for authoritie. This is a misunderstanding of XXX. What you known was from XXX, what he written was doubtable.
That article contain more information about Mr. Pu, It was a simplifyed version of http://www.swxl.com.cn/math/ShowArticle.asp?ArticleID=313 , this page says more details.
Pu's interest included meromorphic funcion, differential geometry, gerneral topology, fuzzy topolgy.
"(1) not allowed to supervise students during most of his career; (2) was not allowed to pursue research outside fuzzy mathematics which at the time was considered the only progressive form of mathematics in the mainland."
There is no evidences and references supporting your (2). (1) was written by XXX, also no evidences and references.
As for famous, I never use interjection in an article. -- Keyi 05:41, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
From conversations with senior mathematicians I have learned that during the sixties and seventies, a "relevance" standard was applied to mathematics in the mainland, to the detriment of pure mathematics, and to the benefit of fuzzy mathematics. I have only anecdotal evidence for this, though, having assumed until now that this is common knowledge. I would appreciate if anyone could point me in the right direction to learn more about it. I think of it in terms of Soviet "Lysenko doctrine" in biology that has replaced legitimate biology for a significant period, to the detriment of legitimate science (unlike Lysenko doctrine, fuzzy math is legitimate), as well as Soviet opposition to the big bang theory which was deemed either bourgeois or reactionary, I do not recall which. But perhaps such analogies are too easy. Katzmik ( talk) 14:35, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Is the Wade-Giles transliteration of his name really "Pu Baoming"? The Wade-Giles article says:
If his name is in Mandarin, then I think it should be P'u Paoming or something similar. 93.136.54.227 ( talk) 18:46, 2 October 2020 (UTC)