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I think this page's title should be Provisional designations of asteroids. If no-one disagrees, I'll change it soon. The Singing Badger 18:30, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I would tend to agree that the title should make reference to what's being provisionally designated, just for the sake of clarity. However, shouldn't this article be merged with astronomical naming conventions? Worldtraveller 16:00, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm really not keen on inserting such a prominent redlink. I can't see any strong reason not to simply move the article to Provisional designation of comets and asteroids, which is much clearer and helpful to the reader than simply 'provisional designation', I think. Worldtraveller 00:25, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
Seems to me the applicable policy is Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Be precise when necessary, which says 'Please, do not write or put an article on a page with an ambiguously named title as though that title had no other meanings'. When I first clicked on a link to this article I did not expect at all that it would refer specifically to astronomy, and I think it makes an article much more useful if one can understand from the title what it's referring to. I only clicked on it because I thought it looked likely to be an inappropriate link which should be fixed, so actually not specifying in the title what is being provisionally designated can make it harder to find by readers. I'm not sure I see how it could make it easier to find. Worldtraveller 12:51, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
OBJECT. Provisional designation is being misconstrued here. Above where a writer writes asteroids aren't the only things in the world of science that might receive a provisional designation, clearly shows a misunderstanding. I think there is a confusion in general with the concept of temporary nomenclature. An example is that systematic name the term used for chemical elements recently discovered seems to be unique to chemistry.
Unlike those, provisional designations aren't temporary. It is literally the provision made for designating unique observations. Please do not change the title without putting it to a vote, as I see no justification for expanding the title that has been unique since 1925. -- Sturmde 13:08, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
CONTINUED OBJECT and Point of Fact. Worldtraveller: There are only approximately 13,000 numbered asteroids with "trivial" names. The other 87,000 or so numbered asteroids retain their provisional designations. And the majority of them will never receive different names. Hence, there is a provision to designate these. It's not temporary, because most aren't given trivial names. Also, even though Brown has gotten Sedna somewhat surreptitiously approved, even though it was done improperly, the original observations still are referenced at the MPC under K03V12B... -- Sturmde 27 September 2005
Just a heads-up to editors... you may find Template:Minplan to be of use when writing in provisional designations into Wikipedia - The Tom 21:04, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
Original page was Provisional designation, which was proposed to move to Provisional designation of asteroids. No consensus was reached on Talk page. After 6 weeks, proposer moved page anyway. I object, because I believe that asteroids are the predominant meaning for "provisional designation". Other meanings should be referred to in Provisional designation (disambiguation). No other meanings are described in Wikipedia. Please undo page move, we can continue to discuss. -- hike395 22:11, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
Please return this to original location. (I think it's very unclear what people are saying here with Oppose, particularly Rmhermen's) Provisional designation (astronomy) would at least have some rationality. Right now, due to Worldtraveller's "over-everyone's-objection" move; there now is a section on provisional designation of asteroidal satellites in an article titled provisional designation of asteroids -- they're not asteroids any more than the Moon or Io are planets. -- Sturmde 27 September 2005
The unilateral move was probably a Bad Thing; WP:RM exists to settle controversial moves, and should have been invoked instead. Bad Worldtraveller! Now that that is over with, the question at hand is "what should this page be called?". Septentrionalis 16:57, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Here's a radical idea: How about someone else show any google hits for something of the form Provisional designation (field other than astronomy)? Because, frankly, "Provisional Designation" has no formal use anywhere I see, BUT in Astronomy. Asteroids started in 1925 using that two-word description for the identification system devised. Satellites "back-doored" into using a compatible format, and comets only started using something compatible in 1995. The Minor Planet Center of the IAU has since 1925, and continued to use the formal title Provisional Designation. How about putting the article there where it used to reside? And when some other field or endeavour creates Provisional designation (aardvarks) or Provisional designation (zymurgical brews)... then move the article to Provisional designation (Astronomy). -- Sturmde 02:07, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
The usual solution at this point is approval polling. Please note which of the following names for this article you can tolerate, and the one that the most people can put up with is where the article goes (until next time). Feel free to add or strike out approvals to reach consensus, also to add new possibilities. Comments of more than a sentence and arguments against should go in
#Further discussion
Septentrionalis 18:10, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
I'll add more material about non-asteroidal provisional designations, if we rename it to be more general. -- hike395 16:35, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
It was
requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved.
Ryan Norton
T |
@ |
C 01:15, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
A small majority seems to be in favor of Provisional designation in astronomy. I'll attempt the move now. -- hike395 04:14, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
I have some confusion for the designations for 1893. Everyone agrees that the system started in 1892, and the last 1892 designation was 1892 V ('vee', not '5'). The problem is what was the first one in 1893? The implication here is that the system was started over again at 1893 A, then ran to 1893 Z, and then the double-lettering (AA, AB, etc) started. But Willy Ley, in Watchers of the Skies says that they just continued the lettering, and the first one was 1893 W. The information at the Minor Planet Data Center website is not clear, and may even indicate that they finished the 1892 alphabet, then started over again with 1893 A, then ran through again to 1893 AA. That probably is not the case, since W-Z would be repeated that way, but their wording can be interpeted that way. The one piece of information that I do have is that 1893 Z turned out to be a rediscovery of 175 Andromache (again, from Ley). Does anyone know for sure? CFLeon 22:16, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
2005 UW512 is said here to be the 12,875th minor planet discovered in its half-month, but 512*25+22 = 12,822. Shouldn't the last one be 2005 UY514? NSHSedit ( talk) 22:16, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
I believe interstellar objects designators (I/) need to be added to this article, as well as the A/ designators for "asteroids originally mistaken for comets."
I am not a subject matter expert so I don't feel qualified, especially w.r.t. packed designations.
2601:646:8600:40C1:8528:7390:256:B1FB ( talk) 06:06, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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I think this page's title should be Provisional designations of asteroids. If no-one disagrees, I'll change it soon. The Singing Badger 18:30, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I would tend to agree that the title should make reference to what's being provisionally designated, just for the sake of clarity. However, shouldn't this article be merged with astronomical naming conventions? Worldtraveller 16:00, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm really not keen on inserting such a prominent redlink. I can't see any strong reason not to simply move the article to Provisional designation of comets and asteroids, which is much clearer and helpful to the reader than simply 'provisional designation', I think. Worldtraveller 00:25, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
Seems to me the applicable policy is Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Be precise when necessary, which says 'Please, do not write or put an article on a page with an ambiguously named title as though that title had no other meanings'. When I first clicked on a link to this article I did not expect at all that it would refer specifically to astronomy, and I think it makes an article much more useful if one can understand from the title what it's referring to. I only clicked on it because I thought it looked likely to be an inappropriate link which should be fixed, so actually not specifying in the title what is being provisionally designated can make it harder to find by readers. I'm not sure I see how it could make it easier to find. Worldtraveller 12:51, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
OBJECT. Provisional designation is being misconstrued here. Above where a writer writes asteroids aren't the only things in the world of science that might receive a provisional designation, clearly shows a misunderstanding. I think there is a confusion in general with the concept of temporary nomenclature. An example is that systematic name the term used for chemical elements recently discovered seems to be unique to chemistry.
Unlike those, provisional designations aren't temporary. It is literally the provision made for designating unique observations. Please do not change the title without putting it to a vote, as I see no justification for expanding the title that has been unique since 1925. -- Sturmde 13:08, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
CONTINUED OBJECT and Point of Fact. Worldtraveller: There are only approximately 13,000 numbered asteroids with "trivial" names. The other 87,000 or so numbered asteroids retain their provisional designations. And the majority of them will never receive different names. Hence, there is a provision to designate these. It's not temporary, because most aren't given trivial names. Also, even though Brown has gotten Sedna somewhat surreptitiously approved, even though it was done improperly, the original observations still are referenced at the MPC under K03V12B... -- Sturmde 27 September 2005
Just a heads-up to editors... you may find Template:Minplan to be of use when writing in provisional designations into Wikipedia - The Tom 21:04, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
Original page was Provisional designation, which was proposed to move to Provisional designation of asteroids. No consensus was reached on Talk page. After 6 weeks, proposer moved page anyway. I object, because I believe that asteroids are the predominant meaning for "provisional designation". Other meanings should be referred to in Provisional designation (disambiguation). No other meanings are described in Wikipedia. Please undo page move, we can continue to discuss. -- hike395 22:11, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
Please return this to original location. (I think it's very unclear what people are saying here with Oppose, particularly Rmhermen's) Provisional designation (astronomy) would at least have some rationality. Right now, due to Worldtraveller's "over-everyone's-objection" move; there now is a section on provisional designation of asteroidal satellites in an article titled provisional designation of asteroids -- they're not asteroids any more than the Moon or Io are planets. -- Sturmde 27 September 2005
The unilateral move was probably a Bad Thing; WP:RM exists to settle controversial moves, and should have been invoked instead. Bad Worldtraveller! Now that that is over with, the question at hand is "what should this page be called?". Septentrionalis 16:57, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Here's a radical idea: How about someone else show any google hits for something of the form Provisional designation (field other than astronomy)? Because, frankly, "Provisional Designation" has no formal use anywhere I see, BUT in Astronomy. Asteroids started in 1925 using that two-word description for the identification system devised. Satellites "back-doored" into using a compatible format, and comets only started using something compatible in 1995. The Minor Planet Center of the IAU has since 1925, and continued to use the formal title Provisional Designation. How about putting the article there where it used to reside? And when some other field or endeavour creates Provisional designation (aardvarks) or Provisional designation (zymurgical brews)... then move the article to Provisional designation (Astronomy). -- Sturmde 02:07, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
The usual solution at this point is approval polling. Please note which of the following names for this article you can tolerate, and the one that the most people can put up with is where the article goes (until next time). Feel free to add or strike out approvals to reach consensus, also to add new possibilities. Comments of more than a sentence and arguments against should go in
#Further discussion
Septentrionalis 18:10, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
I'll add more material about non-asteroidal provisional designations, if we rename it to be more general. -- hike395 16:35, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
It was
requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved.
Ryan Norton
T |
@ |
C 01:15, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
A small majority seems to be in favor of Provisional designation in astronomy. I'll attempt the move now. -- hike395 04:14, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
I have some confusion for the designations for 1893. Everyone agrees that the system started in 1892, and the last 1892 designation was 1892 V ('vee', not '5'). The problem is what was the first one in 1893? The implication here is that the system was started over again at 1893 A, then ran to 1893 Z, and then the double-lettering (AA, AB, etc) started. But Willy Ley, in Watchers of the Skies says that they just continued the lettering, and the first one was 1893 W. The information at the Minor Planet Data Center website is not clear, and may even indicate that they finished the 1892 alphabet, then started over again with 1893 A, then ran through again to 1893 AA. That probably is not the case, since W-Z would be repeated that way, but their wording can be interpeted that way. The one piece of information that I do have is that 1893 Z turned out to be a rediscovery of 175 Andromache (again, from Ley). Does anyone know for sure? CFLeon 22:16, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
2005 UW512 is said here to be the 12,875th minor planet discovered in its half-month, but 512*25+22 = 12,822. Shouldn't the last one be 2005 UY514? NSHSedit ( talk) 22:16, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
I believe interstellar objects designators (I/) need to be added to this article, as well as the A/ designators for "asteroids originally mistaken for comets."
I am not a subject matter expert so I don't feel qualified, especially w.r.t. packed designations.
2601:646:8600:40C1:8528:7390:256:B1FB ( talk) 06:06, 21 February 2023 (UTC)