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Removed most of the section on Downdraft skimmers. The section on Beckett skimmers also needs paring down. There's too much "many aquarists believe..." kind of stuff. Anything comparing the benefits or drawbacks of designs need to be backed up with suitable references. Otherwise, they're not very convincing. Aquarists believe all kinds of stuff, but that doesn't make them right (the "scaleless fish are allergic to salt" notion springs to mind...).
Cheers, Neale —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Neale Monks ( talk • contribs) 18:58, 5 February 2007 (UTC).
Neale, I am concerned that you might have been too drastic on the protein skimmer entry. I'm not really going to argue the downdraft skimmer entry since that guy turned it into an advert. Now that it's pruned back to almost nothing maybe he or someone else will improve on it without turning it into a commercial. However, I think you went overboard on the beckett skimmer. I think you removed some useful information. It was not overtly commercial or incorrect. The opinions were listed with caveats noting that there were other opinions. I don't think there was too much "many aquarists believe..." stuff. There wasn't anything like the "scaleless fish are allergix to salt" example. Now there were clearly some opportunities for improvement, as is the case with almost every entry. I'd like to take a whack at it and see if I can retain the information while improving the entry. I also want to think about your Co-current and Counter-current organization change (at least I think you made that change). The distinctions made are not accurate any longer. For example, needlewheel skimmers can be either co-current or counter-current (at least mostly counter-current). I know that concept was there previously and you just reorganized it but I'm not sure that's the best way or even an accurate way to explain it.
Acroporia 06:15, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
My apologies if I turned the Downdraft thing into an advert but I saw the Beckett as a clear advert and rather than erasing it all (like happened to the downdraft thing) I would write a less blatantly bashing article. I have read your comments and I hope you approve of this Downdraft correction. I have recently been made aware that the Downdraft term in the US is trademarked by AE Tech inc and the patent number was attached for information sake. There are a lot of illegal skimmers infringing on this patent entering the US lately and I think it is important that the patent number be displayed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Charlesda ( talk • contribs) 19:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC).
Out of fairness sake I suggest you remove all references to the companies that own the trademarks and patents in all of the references to all the pages contained in this encyclopedia. I have found many references to proprietary things like Mickey Mouse, the origins of Postum, who created Star Trek and who owns it now. I hope you begin to see the hypocrisy here. If you do not allow the ownership of the patent or developer information here then remove it from all references. I wrote the article with a non commercial and non biased voice since I saw that some of the others were written with a little less of a bias now. Everything I wrote is factual and can be verified and if that is no longer allowed in this article then what good is it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Charlesda ( talk • contribs) 02:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC).
I think that these protein skimmers are a specialized type of thing called a dissolved air floatation unit (for which we don't have an article). If true, this should be incorporated into the article. ike9898 17:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Neal Monks, unless I misunderstand it looks like you added the following sentence to the Protein Skimmer Design section on Feb 5, 2007:
Because the air bubbles are in contact with the water for a longer period in a counter-current flow system, protein skimmers of this type are more effective at removing organic wastes.[1]
The reference is for Escobal's book on Aquatic Systems Engineering. The problem is that Escobal does not say this is true although he implies he is willing to make the assumption that longer dwell time is a good thing and that some organic molecules may take a long time to bind to the surface of an air bubble. But these are simplifying assumptions that he made and represents his opinion. He does not represent that he has or knows of any research with this conclusion.
Escobal is held in great reverence by many people that care about protein skimmer design so invoking his name is a powerful reference. But this is an area where he does not claim to know the real answer.
If I misunderstand and this is not your posting then I am sorry for the confusion. However, the posting is incorrect and needs to be modified.
NaClH20 23:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I've made a number of significant changes, the most important is to remove the above referenced incorrect claims attributed to Escobal and a number of others that are unattributed and appear to be incorrect. Some trimming on POV claims as well and some additions to the different skimmer designs. If you have any concerns please post here for discussion.
NaClH20 07:28, 11 November 2007 (UTC)and it rock's
Reference #6 is a dead link and the material in the article it supports is a simple (but dubious and utterly untested) marketing claim.
While it does not specifically address the marketing niche of "shaped skimmers", this article on Advanced Aquarist is among the only quantitative research on comparative skimmer performance available and it suggests there is little to no difference between one well-working skimmer and the next - regardless of design.
I would suggest removing that paragraph completely.
Here's the paragraph in question:
"Also under considerable recent attention has been the general shape of a skimmer as well. In particular, much attention has been given to the introduction of cone shaped skimmer units. Originally designed by Klaus Jensen in 2004, the concept was founded on the principle that a conical body allows the foam to accumulate more steadily through a gently sloping transition. This reduces the overall turbulence, resulting in more efficient skimming. While research into the specific benefits of the design are still being measured, early reviews of many conical skimmers have been positive overall."
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.214.40.164 ( talk • contribs) 07:39, December 17, 2013
I believe this device has other uses and warrants its own article.-- عبد المؤمن ( talk) 05:51, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 11:52, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
Protein skimmers are used to harvest algae and phytoplankton gently enough to maintain viability for culturing or commercial sale as live cultures. There are no references added for this statement made. Nitrate and phosphate are referred to as being noxious. Is this a personal opinion? All nutrients are noxious to some extend. Why algae scrubbers are mentioned in an encyclopedic article about skimmers? What a skimmer may remove and what not! What an algae scrubber may remove should be part of an article about algae scrubbers. What about the ability of a skimmer to remove proteins, TOC and DOC.? Which may be estimated to be only max +- 30% [1] No warning about the possible impact on the environment due to long term use of a skimmer in a closed marine system. Due to the selective removal of organisms selective evolution is encouraged, a problem which may not be overlooked.
De Mille — Preceding unsigned comment added by Demille001 ( talk • contribs) 10:59, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
References
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
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Removed most of the section on Downdraft skimmers. The section on Beckett skimmers also needs paring down. There's too much "many aquarists believe..." kind of stuff. Anything comparing the benefits or drawbacks of designs need to be backed up with suitable references. Otherwise, they're not very convincing. Aquarists believe all kinds of stuff, but that doesn't make them right (the "scaleless fish are allergic to salt" notion springs to mind...).
Cheers, Neale —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Neale Monks ( talk • contribs) 18:58, 5 February 2007 (UTC).
Neale, I am concerned that you might have been too drastic on the protein skimmer entry. I'm not really going to argue the downdraft skimmer entry since that guy turned it into an advert. Now that it's pruned back to almost nothing maybe he or someone else will improve on it without turning it into a commercial. However, I think you went overboard on the beckett skimmer. I think you removed some useful information. It was not overtly commercial or incorrect. The opinions were listed with caveats noting that there were other opinions. I don't think there was too much "many aquarists believe..." stuff. There wasn't anything like the "scaleless fish are allergix to salt" example. Now there were clearly some opportunities for improvement, as is the case with almost every entry. I'd like to take a whack at it and see if I can retain the information while improving the entry. I also want to think about your Co-current and Counter-current organization change (at least I think you made that change). The distinctions made are not accurate any longer. For example, needlewheel skimmers can be either co-current or counter-current (at least mostly counter-current). I know that concept was there previously and you just reorganized it but I'm not sure that's the best way or even an accurate way to explain it.
Acroporia 06:15, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
My apologies if I turned the Downdraft thing into an advert but I saw the Beckett as a clear advert and rather than erasing it all (like happened to the downdraft thing) I would write a less blatantly bashing article. I have read your comments and I hope you approve of this Downdraft correction. I have recently been made aware that the Downdraft term in the US is trademarked by AE Tech inc and the patent number was attached for information sake. There are a lot of illegal skimmers infringing on this patent entering the US lately and I think it is important that the patent number be displayed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Charlesda ( talk • contribs) 19:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC).
Out of fairness sake I suggest you remove all references to the companies that own the trademarks and patents in all of the references to all the pages contained in this encyclopedia. I have found many references to proprietary things like Mickey Mouse, the origins of Postum, who created Star Trek and who owns it now. I hope you begin to see the hypocrisy here. If you do not allow the ownership of the patent or developer information here then remove it from all references. I wrote the article with a non commercial and non biased voice since I saw that some of the others were written with a little less of a bias now. Everything I wrote is factual and can be verified and if that is no longer allowed in this article then what good is it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Charlesda ( talk • contribs) 02:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC).
I think that these protein skimmers are a specialized type of thing called a dissolved air floatation unit (for which we don't have an article). If true, this should be incorporated into the article. ike9898 17:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Neal Monks, unless I misunderstand it looks like you added the following sentence to the Protein Skimmer Design section on Feb 5, 2007:
Because the air bubbles are in contact with the water for a longer period in a counter-current flow system, protein skimmers of this type are more effective at removing organic wastes.[1]
The reference is for Escobal's book on Aquatic Systems Engineering. The problem is that Escobal does not say this is true although he implies he is willing to make the assumption that longer dwell time is a good thing and that some organic molecules may take a long time to bind to the surface of an air bubble. But these are simplifying assumptions that he made and represents his opinion. He does not represent that he has or knows of any research with this conclusion.
Escobal is held in great reverence by many people that care about protein skimmer design so invoking his name is a powerful reference. But this is an area where he does not claim to know the real answer.
If I misunderstand and this is not your posting then I am sorry for the confusion. However, the posting is incorrect and needs to be modified.
NaClH20 23:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I've made a number of significant changes, the most important is to remove the above referenced incorrect claims attributed to Escobal and a number of others that are unattributed and appear to be incorrect. Some trimming on POV claims as well and some additions to the different skimmer designs. If you have any concerns please post here for discussion.
NaClH20 07:28, 11 November 2007 (UTC)and it rock's
Reference #6 is a dead link and the material in the article it supports is a simple (but dubious and utterly untested) marketing claim.
While it does not specifically address the marketing niche of "shaped skimmers", this article on Advanced Aquarist is among the only quantitative research on comparative skimmer performance available and it suggests there is little to no difference between one well-working skimmer and the next - regardless of design.
I would suggest removing that paragraph completely.
Here's the paragraph in question:
"Also under considerable recent attention has been the general shape of a skimmer as well. In particular, much attention has been given to the introduction of cone shaped skimmer units. Originally designed by Klaus Jensen in 2004, the concept was founded on the principle that a conical body allows the foam to accumulate more steadily through a gently sloping transition. This reduces the overall turbulence, resulting in more efficient skimming. While research into the specific benefits of the design are still being measured, early reviews of many conical skimmers have been positive overall."
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.214.40.164 ( talk • contribs) 07:39, December 17, 2013
I believe this device has other uses and warrants its own article.-- عبد المؤمن ( talk) 05:51, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Protein skimmer. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 11:52, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
Protein skimmers are used to harvest algae and phytoplankton gently enough to maintain viability for culturing or commercial sale as live cultures. There are no references added for this statement made. Nitrate and phosphate are referred to as being noxious. Is this a personal opinion? All nutrients are noxious to some extend. Why algae scrubbers are mentioned in an encyclopedic article about skimmers? What a skimmer may remove and what not! What an algae scrubber may remove should be part of an article about algae scrubbers. What about the ability of a skimmer to remove proteins, TOC and DOC.? Which may be estimated to be only max +- 30% [1] No warning about the possible impact on the environment due to long term use of a skimmer in a closed marine system. Due to the selective removal of organisms selective evolution is encouraged, a problem which may not be overlooked.
De Mille — Preceding unsigned comment added by Demille001 ( talk • contribs) 10:59, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
References