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changed 18 to 17 as 18 year olds are allowed to be sex workers. added latest report -- Rbaal 03:47, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed the bit about UK law as it was incorrect, the act of prostitution has never been illegal in NZ. tidied up a couple of other places no major changes. -- Rbaal 08:17, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I am not certain about the status/history of prostitution in the UK. Currently it is not illegal, running a brothel, soliciting, living of third party etc are illegal. I cannot find a good source that gives its status in 1840. I suspect it was not actually illegal and might never have been generally so (though there might have been local laws etc.). Therefore if NZ copied UK that might be why it has never been illegal here.
That is why there were 70 "brothels" in Auckland according to a survey just before 2003. The way they operated from a legal point of view was that you actually entered into two contracts, one with the massage parlour the other with the sex worker. You did this by paying at the front desk for the "massage" ($60-$80) then in the room you paid the sex worker ($80-$100). The parlour owner kept the $80 for their cut and she kept the $100 for her "tip". Hence everything was legal as there were two contracts but only one was for sex and as it was person-to-person it was legal.
I don't know when this system was first used but it was certainly present in the 1950's though I do not know what the fees were then.
-- Rbaal 01:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
(moved from article) - note left in relation to Copeland's press release - Note: the figures named in the article are not the same as found in Sweden (this editor is from Sweden). Police reports about 130 street prostitutes in Stockholm. Other sources estimates an additional 600-800 over the internet, in houses etc. The law is questioned in Sweden. To note is that there is very little debate nor research done in Sweden regarding prostitution. A report from the government from year 2004 can be found at: http://www.socialstyrelsen.se/Publicerat/2004/8449/Summary.htm. Never reports from 2007 also exists. Prostitution is about the same before and after the law, maybe slightly higher. The difference is mainly that it has moved from the streets to other places where it is more difficult for government to track it. The intention from the government is however that the law shall be further more strict. Mgoodyear ( talk) 07:33, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
I reversed the removal of the flag, because I think that it helps unite the various New Zealand topics. It's not irrelevant, just to prostitution, not to New Zealand, where this is a very important topic 142.239.254.19 ( talk) 15:38, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
This article needs significant re-writing. It has very poor sentence structures and grammar. JohnC ( talk) 00:03, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
I agree and the article does not cover the law that was repealed by the new Act, namely the Massage Parlours Act ( MPA ). The MPA was introduced in the 1970's and it provided the legislative and regulatory framework for the sex industry prior to the introduction of the PRA. The article also appears to have a left wing bias. The PRA was only passed as a result of National party member support, notably leader Don Brash and high profile members such a Maurice Williamson making valuable speeches in the House. The article mentions support for the Bill from women's rights groups but opposition from only ' some ' feminists while the police were neutral. In fact the feminists were divided down the middle. The radical feminists, along with the gay community and prostitutes supported the Bill, while the traditional feminists, police and church groups opposed the Bill. The feminists debate was quite heated. The radical feminists supported the Bill as they saw prostitutes as the high priestesses of the matriarchal society who had been persecuted by the patriarchal society. The traditional feminists, many of them Marxist, saw prostitutes as victims of the patriarchal society and an example of the objectification and exploitation of women. The article needs a complete rethink. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.86.103 ( talk) 14:24, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Radical feminists do not support prostitution and its legalization. Liberal feminsts do.
And radical feminists are not "traditional", they oppose everything which is traditional.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.121.9.90 ( talk) 13:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
The radical feminists are the ones who see prostitutes as victims of the patriarchal society and an example of the objectification and exploitation of women. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.121.9.90 ( talk) 13:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Radical feminism is a philosophy emphasizing the patriarchal roots of inequality between men and women, or, more specifically, social dominance of women by men. Radical feminism views patriarchy as dividing rights, privileges and power primarily by gender, and as a result oppressing women and privileging men.
Radical feminists call for a "reordering" of society, they oppose standard gender roles, and they aim to end the oppression of women and the male domminance from society by attacking the underlying causes of these problems and by addressing the fundamental societal components that support them.
Radical feminists see prostitution as an integral part of the patriarchal system, as a way of maintaining patriarchy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.121.9.90 ( talk) 15:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Radical feminists are not the ones who support prostitution; it's the sex positive feminists who support it.
Sex positive feminists believe that women can have positive experiences working as prostitutes, and that prostitution isn't necessarily bad for women if prostitutes are treated with respect.
There have been objections to the term "sex-positive feminism", as this implies that feminists who oppose prostitution are "sex-negative".
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.121.9.90 ( talk) 14:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
An article about the broader subject or sex/sexuality/sexual behaviour in New Zealand might be a good idea, assuming nothing like that exists at present, which I don't think it does. Richard001 ( talk) 01:13, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
It is pretty obvious that since the last major re-write of this article I did in early 2009, a small number of anonymous sources have devoted considerable energy to giving the article a negative spin, largely based on dubious sources and opinion. For instance Melissa Farley, one of the most outspoken critics of sex work, never wrote any report on the situation in New Zealand she merely stated her opinions on her own website. I have attempted to clean some of this up without removing material. Mgoodyear ( talk) 13:30, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
I have removed or reduced the material concerning underage sex work. The article has been spun in such a way as to make it seem the the 2003 act resulted in a major problem. The reality is that it is a very minor problem that existed before the 2003 change.-- Rbaal ( talk) 22:55, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
To the person who is conducting an edit attach from a unidentified IP address - talk here dont just try and reverse my edits because you dont like them. Demanding cites for very entry is a blocking tequnique that wikipedia does not allow
-- Rbaal ( talk) 01:20, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
You have to understand that you can't just write here anything you want without providing a reliable source. You have offered absolutely no citation for the claims you have made, which is in direct violation of WP:RS and WP:V. No, not every single phrase written on WP needs a citation, but the things you wrote cannot, under any circumstances, remain without a citation, and I am determined to take this further, if you continue adding these paragraphs. 188.25.173.10 ( talk) 01:34, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
I note that anonymous coward 188.25.173.10 continues to use cites to try and block edits they don't like. However strangely does not bother about cites on edits they the do like!. Double standards or what!
I guess I will just have to remove edits they like that don't have valid cites and see how they react.
If we are going to 100% cite on this article then things are going to get into a real mess. But I guess coward is not interested in this.
-- Rbaal ( talk) 01:36, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
Stickee - I am assuming good faith with editors but its very hard when the other person is working behind a anonymous Ip address. "Anonymous Coward" is common Internet terminology for such a user. I did not invent it.
what makes my edits rather dubious? The fact that I am a New Zealander? That I am local and hence actually know what is happening from being on the ground? I am sorry but I don't mark down every think I read from local sources perhaps I should start doing that!
I understand tthat citing is important and have actually told off users before abut this but in thsi case its being used as a blocker not as a way of improving wikipedia!
Sorry if I sound a bit hard but the article had a very misleading bias within it. -- Rbaal ( talk) 01:55, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
I think we can remove the tag on prostitution of minors now having checked all the references - it is a controversial issue with conflicting claims, in NZ as elsewhere Mgoodyear ( talk) 16:47, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
"The vast majority of New Zealand sex workers are biologically female, but there are also male and transgender workers, particularly in Auckland. Both engage in sole operator businesses as described above, and a few male brothels and escort agencies exist. In addition, transgender street walkers are not uncommon. Male prostitutes aiming at a male clientele usually advertise in the gay newspaper Express or in New Zealand Truth." This is very uninformative, and unreferenced. -- Hugh7 ( talk) 21:26, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm an American human rights lawyer and I had significant trouble understanding the state of prostitution (or sex work) in Australia after reading this article. The summary the top _stops_ with the 2003 act when it should start with it as it's the current law. It wasn't until the 7th paragraph within the section "Prostitution Reform Act 2003" that it actually started talking about what the Act did. I'm not against the historical analysis, but place that in a different section, such as "Build up to the 2003 Act." 122.160.69.181 ( talk) 12:34, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
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Dear Stuartyeates
Immigration New Zealand report say that
"Migrants working unlawfully in sex industry by choice Thursday, 1 August 2019 Immigration New Zealand has found a number of migrants working unlawfully in the sex industry, but no evidence of exploitation.
The Prostitution Reform Act 2003 (PRA) states that only New Zealand citizens and residents can legally work in the sex industry.
Immigration New Zealand (INZ) took a proactive approach to better understand issues within the sex industry as part of wider work on exploitation.
INZ Compliance Officers visited 57 brothels across Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga, Wellington, Christchurch, Queenstown and Dunedin.
When engaging proactively with small owner-operated brothel employers and workers, INZ found people on temporary visas working unlawfully.
Sixty-six migrant sex workers were identified 36 on visitor visas, two on student visas and the remainder held resident visas. All of the sex workers identified except for one were Chinese nationals. There was no evidence they were being exploited."
I described the text about foreign prostitutes in the same way.I don't understand what you said ( gross misrepresentation of a primary source ) Bablos939 ( talk) 14:20, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
"One of the authors, nurse specialist Bronwyn Schofield, said that "probably two-thirds" of the 38 non-resident sex workers she had interviewed over two years after the act were Chinese women." https://www.immigration.govt.nz/about-us/media-centre/media-releases/migrants-working-unlawfully-in-sex-industry-by-choice Bablos939 ( talk) 14:05, 1 April 2020 (UTC) Bablos939 ( talk) 14:05, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
There is a variety of data. 'Asian prostitutes, who are mainly Chinese, make up a third of the 1700 sex workers in Auckland, according to the collective Many are sole operators working from suburban homes or apartments.' https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10545882
"One of the authors, nurse specialist Bronwyn Schofield, said that "probably two-thirds" of the 38 non-resident sex workers she had interviewed over two years after the act were Chinese women." https://www.immigration.govt.nz/about-us/media-centre/media-releases/migrants-working-unlawfully-in-sex-industry-by-choice
The reason for 'Foreign prostitutes in New Zealand' registration is sufficient. Bablos939 ( talk) 11:15, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
"One of the authors, nurse specialist Bronwyn Schofield, said that "probably two-thirds" of the 38 non-resident sex workers she had interviewed over two years after the act were Chinese women." https://www.immigration.govt.nz/about-us/media-centre/media-releases/migrants-working-unlawfully-in-sex-industry-by-choice There are many other source. How will you explain? Bablos939 ( talk) 13:41, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
The first sentence currently reads Prostitution in New Zealand, brothel-keeping, living off the proceeds of someone else's prostitution, and street solicitation are legal in New Zealand and have been since the Prostitution Reform Act 2003 came into effect. That sentence is a mess (Prostitution in New Zealand... is legal in New Zealand?), likely because someone thought we needed the title of the article in order to put something in bold. However, this is a case where MOS:BOLDAVOID applies. I recommend simplifying the sentence to In New Zealand, prostitution, brothel-keeping, living off the proceeds of another's prostitution, and street solicitation have been legal since the Prostitution Reform Act 2003 came into effect. However, I am avoiding editing articles at this point -- I suggest someone else review this suggestion and, if they find it of merit, make the change. -- Nat Gertler ( talk) 15:41, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
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changed 18 to 17 as 18 year olds are allowed to be sex workers. added latest report -- Rbaal 03:47, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed the bit about UK law as it was incorrect, the act of prostitution has never been illegal in NZ. tidied up a couple of other places no major changes. -- Rbaal 08:17, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I am not certain about the status/history of prostitution in the UK. Currently it is not illegal, running a brothel, soliciting, living of third party etc are illegal. I cannot find a good source that gives its status in 1840. I suspect it was not actually illegal and might never have been generally so (though there might have been local laws etc.). Therefore if NZ copied UK that might be why it has never been illegal here.
That is why there were 70 "brothels" in Auckland according to a survey just before 2003. The way they operated from a legal point of view was that you actually entered into two contracts, one with the massage parlour the other with the sex worker. You did this by paying at the front desk for the "massage" ($60-$80) then in the room you paid the sex worker ($80-$100). The parlour owner kept the $80 for their cut and she kept the $100 for her "tip". Hence everything was legal as there were two contracts but only one was for sex and as it was person-to-person it was legal.
I don't know when this system was first used but it was certainly present in the 1950's though I do not know what the fees were then.
-- Rbaal 01:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
(moved from article) - note left in relation to Copeland's press release - Note: the figures named in the article are not the same as found in Sweden (this editor is from Sweden). Police reports about 130 street prostitutes in Stockholm. Other sources estimates an additional 600-800 over the internet, in houses etc. The law is questioned in Sweden. To note is that there is very little debate nor research done in Sweden regarding prostitution. A report from the government from year 2004 can be found at: http://www.socialstyrelsen.se/Publicerat/2004/8449/Summary.htm. Never reports from 2007 also exists. Prostitution is about the same before and after the law, maybe slightly higher. The difference is mainly that it has moved from the streets to other places where it is more difficult for government to track it. The intention from the government is however that the law shall be further more strict. Mgoodyear ( talk) 07:33, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
I reversed the removal of the flag, because I think that it helps unite the various New Zealand topics. It's not irrelevant, just to prostitution, not to New Zealand, where this is a very important topic 142.239.254.19 ( talk) 15:38, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
This article needs significant re-writing. It has very poor sentence structures and grammar. JohnC ( talk) 00:03, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
I agree and the article does not cover the law that was repealed by the new Act, namely the Massage Parlours Act ( MPA ). The MPA was introduced in the 1970's and it provided the legislative and regulatory framework for the sex industry prior to the introduction of the PRA. The article also appears to have a left wing bias. The PRA was only passed as a result of National party member support, notably leader Don Brash and high profile members such a Maurice Williamson making valuable speeches in the House. The article mentions support for the Bill from women's rights groups but opposition from only ' some ' feminists while the police were neutral. In fact the feminists were divided down the middle. The radical feminists, along with the gay community and prostitutes supported the Bill, while the traditional feminists, police and church groups opposed the Bill. The feminists debate was quite heated. The radical feminists supported the Bill as they saw prostitutes as the high priestesses of the matriarchal society who had been persecuted by the patriarchal society. The traditional feminists, many of them Marxist, saw prostitutes as victims of the patriarchal society and an example of the objectification and exploitation of women. The article needs a complete rethink. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.86.103 ( talk) 14:24, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Radical feminists do not support prostitution and its legalization. Liberal feminsts do.
And radical feminists are not "traditional", they oppose everything which is traditional.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.121.9.90 ( talk) 13:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
The radical feminists are the ones who see prostitutes as victims of the patriarchal society and an example of the objectification and exploitation of women. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.121.9.90 ( talk) 13:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Radical feminism is a philosophy emphasizing the patriarchal roots of inequality between men and women, or, more specifically, social dominance of women by men. Radical feminism views patriarchy as dividing rights, privileges and power primarily by gender, and as a result oppressing women and privileging men.
Radical feminists call for a "reordering" of society, they oppose standard gender roles, and they aim to end the oppression of women and the male domminance from society by attacking the underlying causes of these problems and by addressing the fundamental societal components that support them.
Radical feminists see prostitution as an integral part of the patriarchal system, as a way of maintaining patriarchy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.121.9.90 ( talk) 15:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Radical feminists are not the ones who support prostitution; it's the sex positive feminists who support it.
Sex positive feminists believe that women can have positive experiences working as prostitutes, and that prostitution isn't necessarily bad for women if prostitutes are treated with respect.
There have been objections to the term "sex-positive feminism", as this implies that feminists who oppose prostitution are "sex-negative".
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.121.9.90 ( talk) 14:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
An article about the broader subject or sex/sexuality/sexual behaviour in New Zealand might be a good idea, assuming nothing like that exists at present, which I don't think it does. Richard001 ( talk) 01:13, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
It is pretty obvious that since the last major re-write of this article I did in early 2009, a small number of anonymous sources have devoted considerable energy to giving the article a negative spin, largely based on dubious sources and opinion. For instance Melissa Farley, one of the most outspoken critics of sex work, never wrote any report on the situation in New Zealand she merely stated her opinions on her own website. I have attempted to clean some of this up without removing material. Mgoodyear ( talk) 13:30, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
I have removed or reduced the material concerning underage sex work. The article has been spun in such a way as to make it seem the the 2003 act resulted in a major problem. The reality is that it is a very minor problem that existed before the 2003 change.-- Rbaal ( talk) 22:55, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
To the person who is conducting an edit attach from a unidentified IP address - talk here dont just try and reverse my edits because you dont like them. Demanding cites for very entry is a blocking tequnique that wikipedia does not allow
-- Rbaal ( talk) 01:20, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
You have to understand that you can't just write here anything you want without providing a reliable source. You have offered absolutely no citation for the claims you have made, which is in direct violation of WP:RS and WP:V. No, not every single phrase written on WP needs a citation, but the things you wrote cannot, under any circumstances, remain without a citation, and I am determined to take this further, if you continue adding these paragraphs. 188.25.173.10 ( talk) 01:34, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
I note that anonymous coward 188.25.173.10 continues to use cites to try and block edits they don't like. However strangely does not bother about cites on edits they the do like!. Double standards or what!
I guess I will just have to remove edits they like that don't have valid cites and see how they react.
If we are going to 100% cite on this article then things are going to get into a real mess. But I guess coward is not interested in this.
-- Rbaal ( talk) 01:36, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
Stickee - I am assuming good faith with editors but its very hard when the other person is working behind a anonymous Ip address. "Anonymous Coward" is common Internet terminology for such a user. I did not invent it.
what makes my edits rather dubious? The fact that I am a New Zealander? That I am local and hence actually know what is happening from being on the ground? I am sorry but I don't mark down every think I read from local sources perhaps I should start doing that!
I understand tthat citing is important and have actually told off users before abut this but in thsi case its being used as a blocker not as a way of improving wikipedia!
Sorry if I sound a bit hard but the article had a very misleading bias within it. -- Rbaal ( talk) 01:55, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
I think we can remove the tag on prostitution of minors now having checked all the references - it is a controversial issue with conflicting claims, in NZ as elsewhere Mgoodyear ( talk) 16:47, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
"The vast majority of New Zealand sex workers are biologically female, but there are also male and transgender workers, particularly in Auckland. Both engage in sole operator businesses as described above, and a few male brothels and escort agencies exist. In addition, transgender street walkers are not uncommon. Male prostitutes aiming at a male clientele usually advertise in the gay newspaper Express or in New Zealand Truth." This is very uninformative, and unreferenced. -- Hugh7 ( talk) 21:26, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm an American human rights lawyer and I had significant trouble understanding the state of prostitution (or sex work) in Australia after reading this article. The summary the top _stops_ with the 2003 act when it should start with it as it's the current law. It wasn't until the 7th paragraph within the section "Prostitution Reform Act 2003" that it actually started talking about what the Act did. I'm not against the historical analysis, but place that in a different section, such as "Build up to the 2003 Act." 122.160.69.181 ( talk) 12:34, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
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Dear Stuartyeates
Immigration New Zealand report say that
"Migrants working unlawfully in sex industry by choice Thursday, 1 August 2019 Immigration New Zealand has found a number of migrants working unlawfully in the sex industry, but no evidence of exploitation.
The Prostitution Reform Act 2003 (PRA) states that only New Zealand citizens and residents can legally work in the sex industry.
Immigration New Zealand (INZ) took a proactive approach to better understand issues within the sex industry as part of wider work on exploitation.
INZ Compliance Officers visited 57 brothels across Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga, Wellington, Christchurch, Queenstown and Dunedin.
When engaging proactively with small owner-operated brothel employers and workers, INZ found people on temporary visas working unlawfully.
Sixty-six migrant sex workers were identified 36 on visitor visas, two on student visas and the remainder held resident visas. All of the sex workers identified except for one were Chinese nationals. There was no evidence they were being exploited."
I described the text about foreign prostitutes in the same way.I don't understand what you said ( gross misrepresentation of a primary source ) Bablos939 ( talk) 14:20, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
"One of the authors, nurse specialist Bronwyn Schofield, said that "probably two-thirds" of the 38 non-resident sex workers she had interviewed over two years after the act were Chinese women." https://www.immigration.govt.nz/about-us/media-centre/media-releases/migrants-working-unlawfully-in-sex-industry-by-choice Bablos939 ( talk) 14:05, 1 April 2020 (UTC) Bablos939 ( talk) 14:05, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
There is a variety of data. 'Asian prostitutes, who are mainly Chinese, make up a third of the 1700 sex workers in Auckland, according to the collective Many are sole operators working from suburban homes or apartments.' https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10545882
"One of the authors, nurse specialist Bronwyn Schofield, said that "probably two-thirds" of the 38 non-resident sex workers she had interviewed over two years after the act were Chinese women." https://www.immigration.govt.nz/about-us/media-centre/media-releases/migrants-working-unlawfully-in-sex-industry-by-choice
The reason for 'Foreign prostitutes in New Zealand' registration is sufficient. Bablos939 ( talk) 11:15, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
"One of the authors, nurse specialist Bronwyn Schofield, said that "probably two-thirds" of the 38 non-resident sex workers she had interviewed over two years after the act were Chinese women." https://www.immigration.govt.nz/about-us/media-centre/media-releases/migrants-working-unlawfully-in-sex-industry-by-choice There are many other source. How will you explain? Bablos939 ( talk) 13:41, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
The first sentence currently reads Prostitution in New Zealand, brothel-keeping, living off the proceeds of someone else's prostitution, and street solicitation are legal in New Zealand and have been since the Prostitution Reform Act 2003 came into effect. That sentence is a mess (Prostitution in New Zealand... is legal in New Zealand?), likely because someone thought we needed the title of the article in order to put something in bold. However, this is a case where MOS:BOLDAVOID applies. I recommend simplifying the sentence to In New Zealand, prostitution, brothel-keeping, living off the proceeds of another's prostitution, and street solicitation have been legal since the Prostitution Reform Act 2003 came into effect. However, I am avoiding editing articles at this point -- I suggest someone else review this suggestion and, if they find it of merit, make the change. -- Nat Gertler ( talk) 15:41, 7 June 2023 (UTC)