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Proposed Japanese invasion of Australia during World War II article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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What sources were used to create this article? - LichYoshi 15:08, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I was able to figure out what a great deal of it actually means, but I couldn't get the whole intent of this section:
Any ideas? -- Easter Monkey 11:12, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
If someone can find the actual quote, please feel free. In any case, here is the section in question in its full gibberishhood:
Australian Prime Minister John Curtin, envisioned such danger and translated the anxiety of own people in a message directed to Washington on March 13,1942:
"Australia was the last allied battle between the west coast of America and Japan. If ours falling the American land if encounter opened to subsequent enemy invasion. It affirmed why saved to Australia, was saved to west coasts of United States.own people fighting in enemy invasion success, until the last man, also ours practised scorched land policy"
In Australia during this period there were directives aimed at the civil population in case of any Japanese Armed Forces naval disembarkations or airborne troops landings at in the territories. During the air attacks in 1942-42 times,if distacated the role occupied by local desing RAAF interceptors Commonwealth CA-1 " Wirraway"(one of theirs destroyed one Mitsubishi A6M ) and Commonwealth CA-13 " Boomerang",along Australian Army Antiaircraft units in defense of nation.
-- Easter Monkey 17:22, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
While this is an interesting topic, as it currently stands this article is riddled with incorrect information and some of it appears based on the false belief that the Japanese ever began preperations to invade Australia (as the proposal to carry out an invasion was quickly rejected no such preperations took place). In particular, the statements attributed to Kenosuke Sato need to be qualified as some of them are clearly incorrect (for instance, that the inital bombing of Darwin was conducted as a preliminary to an invasion - the bombing was actually related to the invasion of the Dutch East Indies and the Japanese never intended to follow it up with an invasion force).
An appropriate avenue for future redevelopment of the article may be to strip it back to just the facts, and move the coverage of the Japanese attacks on Australia into a seperate article. -- Nick Dowling 01:01, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
This article needs in-line citations. I apologize to have to suggest it as, generally, I disagree with the requirement of in-line citations (see my user page). But so much of what is asserted in this article seems potentially dubious - it must be cited. LordAmeth 06:23, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
"Some Australians in Papua no stayed at favour of Japanese presence n area ,theirs feared the effects of conflict on Papuans when their autority would be undermined by war against at non-white race."
Could not make much sense of it, deleted
There are two online sources in the references section. Perhaps we could start to build the article from them; these sources easily referenced by a number of editors for collaborative purposes and while other sources are of course fine it is just perhaps a little harder to work together from them.
The first online source already referenced is Stanley, Peter (2002).
"'"He's (not) Coming South": the invasion that wasn't'" (pdf (14 pages)).
Remembering 1942 history conference. Australian War Memorial. Retrieved 2006-11-06. {{
cite web}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors=
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help); External link in
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help)
The paper describes Stanley as Principal Historian, Australian War Memorial. He notes "I’m grateful to my Research Centre colleague Mr Craig Tibbitts, whose 2001 University of Canberra research paper “Japan and Australia during the Second World War” provided a solid foundation for the interpretation I present in this paper." The paper takes issue with the "popular" perception that "Japan planned to invade Australia, would have had not the battle for Papua been won, and that the man responsible was the great war leader John Curtin." Stanley argues there was "was in fact no invasion plan [and] that the Curtin government exaggerated the threat"
|work=
The second online source included in the references is Gill, G Hermon. "Chapter 17 - Prelude to Victory".
Official Histories – Second World War; Volume I – Royal Australian Navy, 1939–1942 (1st edition, 1957) (pdf) (online ed.). Australian War Memorial. pp. pp. 625 - 649. Retrieved 2006-11-06. {{
cite book}}
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, |origdate=
, and |coauthors=
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help); External link in
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I think we should be saying in this article is that although there is a popular perception that Japan planned to invade Australia (cite Stanley), there was no plan (cite Stanley and Official History, specifically Tojo's statement). The article should be short - writing about somehting that neither happened nor was planned to happen should not be a large article, that would be out of proportion to the importance of the subject.-- Golden Wattle talk 20:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree that this article requires an extensive re-write. It is now well-known that the Japanese were quite unable to mass the transport to undertake an invasion of the Australian mainland, but several invasion plans have surfaced since the war. The authenticity of these plans is questionable, but as they exist in the NAA and the AWM, perhaps with the appropriate disclaimers, they may be of value here. In the same vein, there are several reliable, citable sources which claim that the invasion threat may have been real enough as well. Australian Bunker Project 15:18, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
As the first stage of a re-write this article needs a new title which makes it clear that the Japanese didn't 'plan' to invade Australia but only considered this before rejecting the idea. 'Japanese consideration of invading Australia' isn't very good though. Any ideas? -- Nick Dowling 06:16, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Sometime in the next few weeks I intend to rewrite this article from scratch. No sources have been provided to support any of the current claims and my preliminary reading incdicates that much of the article is flat out wrong (for instance, that Yamamoto proposed an invasion of Australia - it seems that he actually opposed this, prefering instead to attack Midway). -- Nick Dowling 07:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
If there is a Japanese (or any other language) article on the subject, this article could be linked to it. Or, it could be translated.-- Mbowden ( talk) 15:17, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Given that Peter Stanley's excellent new book 'Invading Australia' has a couple of pages which discuss this article, I thought that it was long past time to re-write it. I have completely replaced the existing text with a description of the Japanese Army and Navy's dicussions about invading Australia in early 1942 which is drawn from Henry Frei's book, which seems to be the de-facto standard work on this topic. I would like to propose including a section on the Australian response to the threat of invasion and possibly another section on the current aparantly popular perception that Japan seriously intended to invade Australia. Nick Dowling ( talk) 12:20, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
I see Peter is claiming yet another wiki page as his own personal property under the stage name Nick-D. Everyone prepare for censorship of your opinions. Pete is on the loose. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.50.62.191 ( talk) 11:41, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Proposed Japanese invasion of Australia during World War II article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
What sources were used to create this article? - LichYoshi 15:08, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I was able to figure out what a great deal of it actually means, but I couldn't get the whole intent of this section:
Any ideas? -- Easter Monkey 11:12, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
If someone can find the actual quote, please feel free. In any case, here is the section in question in its full gibberishhood:
Australian Prime Minister John Curtin, envisioned such danger and translated the anxiety of own people in a message directed to Washington on March 13,1942:
"Australia was the last allied battle between the west coast of America and Japan. If ours falling the American land if encounter opened to subsequent enemy invasion. It affirmed why saved to Australia, was saved to west coasts of United States.own people fighting in enemy invasion success, until the last man, also ours practised scorched land policy"
In Australia during this period there were directives aimed at the civil population in case of any Japanese Armed Forces naval disembarkations or airborne troops landings at in the territories. During the air attacks in 1942-42 times,if distacated the role occupied by local desing RAAF interceptors Commonwealth CA-1 " Wirraway"(one of theirs destroyed one Mitsubishi A6M ) and Commonwealth CA-13 " Boomerang",along Australian Army Antiaircraft units in defense of nation.
-- Easter Monkey 17:22, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
While this is an interesting topic, as it currently stands this article is riddled with incorrect information and some of it appears based on the false belief that the Japanese ever began preperations to invade Australia (as the proposal to carry out an invasion was quickly rejected no such preperations took place). In particular, the statements attributed to Kenosuke Sato need to be qualified as some of them are clearly incorrect (for instance, that the inital bombing of Darwin was conducted as a preliminary to an invasion - the bombing was actually related to the invasion of the Dutch East Indies and the Japanese never intended to follow it up with an invasion force).
An appropriate avenue for future redevelopment of the article may be to strip it back to just the facts, and move the coverage of the Japanese attacks on Australia into a seperate article. -- Nick Dowling 01:01, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
This article needs in-line citations. I apologize to have to suggest it as, generally, I disagree with the requirement of in-line citations (see my user page). But so much of what is asserted in this article seems potentially dubious - it must be cited. LordAmeth 06:23, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
"Some Australians in Papua no stayed at favour of Japanese presence n area ,theirs feared the effects of conflict on Papuans when their autority would be undermined by war against at non-white race."
Could not make much sense of it, deleted
There are two online sources in the references section. Perhaps we could start to build the article from them; these sources easily referenced by a number of editors for collaborative purposes and while other sources are of course fine it is just perhaps a little harder to work together from them.
The first online source already referenced is Stanley, Peter (2002).
"'"He's (not) Coming South": the invasion that wasn't'" (pdf (14 pages)).
Remembering 1942 history conference. Australian War Memorial. Retrieved 2006-11-06. {{
cite web}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors=
(
help); External link in
(
help)
The paper describes Stanley as Principal Historian, Australian War Memorial. He notes "I’m grateful to my Research Centre colleague Mr Craig Tibbitts, whose 2001 University of Canberra research paper “Japan and Australia during the Second World War” provided a solid foundation for the interpretation I present in this paper." The paper takes issue with the "popular" perception that "Japan planned to invade Australia, would have had not the battle for Papua been won, and that the man responsible was the great war leader John Curtin." Stanley argues there was "was in fact no invasion plan [and] that the Curtin government exaggerated the threat"
|work=
The second online source included in the references is Gill, G Hermon. "Chapter 17 - Prelude to Victory".
Official Histories – Second World War; Volume I – Royal Australian Navy, 1939–1942 (1st edition, 1957) (pdf) (online ed.). Australian War Memorial. pp. pp. 625 - 649. Retrieved 2006-11-06. {{
cite book}}
: |pages=
has extra text (
help); Cite has empty unknown parameters: |origmonth=
, |month=
, |origdate=
, and |coauthors=
(
help); External link in
(
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
|chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help)
I think we should be saying in this article is that although there is a popular perception that Japan planned to invade Australia (cite Stanley), there was no plan (cite Stanley and Official History, specifically Tojo's statement). The article should be short - writing about somehting that neither happened nor was planned to happen should not be a large article, that would be out of proportion to the importance of the subject.-- Golden Wattle talk 20:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree that this article requires an extensive re-write. It is now well-known that the Japanese were quite unable to mass the transport to undertake an invasion of the Australian mainland, but several invasion plans have surfaced since the war. The authenticity of these plans is questionable, but as they exist in the NAA and the AWM, perhaps with the appropriate disclaimers, they may be of value here. In the same vein, there are several reliable, citable sources which claim that the invasion threat may have been real enough as well. Australian Bunker Project 15:18, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
As the first stage of a re-write this article needs a new title which makes it clear that the Japanese didn't 'plan' to invade Australia but only considered this before rejecting the idea. 'Japanese consideration of invading Australia' isn't very good though. Any ideas? -- Nick Dowling 06:16, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Sometime in the next few weeks I intend to rewrite this article from scratch. No sources have been provided to support any of the current claims and my preliminary reading incdicates that much of the article is flat out wrong (for instance, that Yamamoto proposed an invasion of Australia - it seems that he actually opposed this, prefering instead to attack Midway). -- Nick Dowling 07:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
If there is a Japanese (or any other language) article on the subject, this article could be linked to it. Or, it could be translated.-- Mbowden ( talk) 15:17, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Given that Peter Stanley's excellent new book 'Invading Australia' has a couple of pages which discuss this article, I thought that it was long past time to re-write it. I have completely replaced the existing text with a description of the Japanese Army and Navy's dicussions about invading Australia in early 1942 which is drawn from Henry Frei's book, which seems to be the de-facto standard work on this topic. I would like to propose including a section on the Australian response to the threat of invasion and possibly another section on the current aparantly popular perception that Japan seriously intended to invade Australia. Nick Dowling ( talk) 12:20, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
I see Peter is claiming yet another wiki page as his own personal property under the stage name Nick-D. Everyone prepare for censorship of your opinions. Pete is on the loose. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.50.62.191 ( talk) 11:41, 19 August 2013 (UTC)