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that the Revision as of 21:19, 5 August 2009 be implemented. - 100.14.81.196 ( talk) 05:54, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Who has decided "They" know Biblical prophecy better than anyone else? Revelation never calls the 'City upon seven hills' Rome directly, it's a matter of interpretation. Many Protestants believe Rome is this "City," why offend Catholics and others who do not believe this? There are many cities upon "seven hills," why would God destroy the one housing His Church? It makes no sense. There is no reason to have "i.e. Rome" on the information section for Peter the Roman. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:C1:C001:39F0:F83A:9DEF:4706:45B1 ( talk) 11:26, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
This pope was born in the Province of Belluno, which ties in with the lunar reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:4C8:140F:7E07:1:1:3888:C2D1 ( talk) 00:39, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
@ SneaselxLv94: Thanks for your comment on my talk page; I am replying here. My concern with the edit is that it presents a timeline starting in the 12th century, rather than the late 16th century when the prophecies first appeared. It presents statements like "It was then stored in the Vatican archives and forgotten about until 1590 when it was rediscovered," as facts Wikipedia's voice, rather than as highly dubious claims made centuries later, as most sources do.
You expressed concerns with the History section lacking in sources, and have tagged the article as needing additional references. Both the section and the article seem to me to be quite densely cited. Are there statements in particular that you think would benefit from a citation?-- Trystan ( talk) 14:17, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
Regarding this edit, I understand the temptation to attempt to fix a perceived error in the sources, but Wikipedia is not the place for original research. Arguing why you think multiple reliable sources spanning hundreds of years are all wrong isn't relevant, because our job as an encyclopedia is to simply report what the sources say. The article already mentions that alternative interpretations exist, citing Sieczkowski. Even that wording is fairly generous when considering WP:DUEWEIGHT, given that it is a reading very much in the small minority.
I'm not sure if it is helpful to address the substantive merits of the the OR, since even absolutely true OR doesn't belong on Wikipedia. But it may be useful to note that there is no reason to think that the reliable sources are flawed in their reading of the original text on this point (pun intended). In English, what we now call a period or full stop continued to act "as a type of comma until its standardization in the early 17th century." [1] Perhaps Latin was different, and I'm not an expert on 16th century punctuation in either English or Latin, but that's just the point: expertise is required. We can't substitute our own research and conclusions - especially ones grounded in modern assumptions about punctuation and grammar - for the work of expert reliable sources. If they interpreted the mark as the equivalent of a comma, or disregarded it as a typo, that's what we must reflect as well.-- Trystan ( talk) 15:07, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
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Prophecy of the Popes article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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that the Revision as of 21:19, 5 August 2009 be implemented. - 100.14.81.196 ( talk) 05:54, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Who has decided "They" know Biblical prophecy better than anyone else? Revelation never calls the 'City upon seven hills' Rome directly, it's a matter of interpretation. Many Protestants believe Rome is this "City," why offend Catholics and others who do not believe this? There are many cities upon "seven hills," why would God destroy the one housing His Church? It makes no sense. There is no reason to have "i.e. Rome" on the information section for Peter the Roman. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:C1:C001:39F0:F83A:9DEF:4706:45B1 ( talk) 11:26, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
This pope was born in the Province of Belluno, which ties in with the lunar reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:4C8:140F:7E07:1:1:3888:C2D1 ( talk) 00:39, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
@ SneaselxLv94: Thanks for your comment on my talk page; I am replying here. My concern with the edit is that it presents a timeline starting in the 12th century, rather than the late 16th century when the prophecies first appeared. It presents statements like "It was then stored in the Vatican archives and forgotten about until 1590 when it was rediscovered," as facts Wikipedia's voice, rather than as highly dubious claims made centuries later, as most sources do.
You expressed concerns with the History section lacking in sources, and have tagged the article as needing additional references. Both the section and the article seem to me to be quite densely cited. Are there statements in particular that you think would benefit from a citation?-- Trystan ( talk) 14:17, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
Regarding this edit, I understand the temptation to attempt to fix a perceived error in the sources, but Wikipedia is not the place for original research. Arguing why you think multiple reliable sources spanning hundreds of years are all wrong isn't relevant, because our job as an encyclopedia is to simply report what the sources say. The article already mentions that alternative interpretations exist, citing Sieczkowski. Even that wording is fairly generous when considering WP:DUEWEIGHT, given that it is a reading very much in the small minority.
I'm not sure if it is helpful to address the substantive merits of the the OR, since even absolutely true OR doesn't belong on Wikipedia. But it may be useful to note that there is no reason to think that the reliable sources are flawed in their reading of the original text on this point (pun intended). In English, what we now call a period or full stop continued to act "as a type of comma until its standardization in the early 17th century." [1] Perhaps Latin was different, and I'm not an expert on 16th century punctuation in either English or Latin, but that's just the point: expertise is required. We can't substitute our own research and conclusions - especially ones grounded in modern assumptions about punctuation and grammar - for the work of expert reliable sources. If they interpreted the mark as the equivalent of a comma, or disregarded it as a typo, that's what we must reflect as well.-- Trystan ( talk) 15:07, 23 December 2020 (UTC)