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I put this article up on AFD, but it appears that it's going to be kept, so I'd like to start up some discussion on what needs to be done to fix it. I see the following issues:
I think that this article is best suited to being converted into a list of fastest production cars through the years. TomTheHand 19:52, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
The list on this article of the fastest cars is different to that of the "Fastest street-legal production car" box thingy at the bottom of the respective cars' articles. When you click through those you arrive at the Lambo Countach, which isn't in this list at all, and according to the Countach article there is no previous fastest car. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.66.8.120 ( talk) 21:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I believe it to make sense that this article be merged into, or simply entirely redirected to, List_of_automotive_superlatives#Performance as that article contains a much broader spectrum of information about other automobile records and this article is somewhat lacking in content and references as well as overall consistency and organization. The other article also already includes several notable past record-holders. Please leave any comments on this below with your belief as to the course of action that should be taken. Thank you. -- Ctrlfreak13 01:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Dont merge. 92.5.78.73 ( talk) 19:59, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
Both these statements are contradicting:
"The first production Ferrari was launched in 1948, using a shared engine from their V12 Grand Prix cars. The 410 Superamerica reached over 257 km/h (160 mph) in late 1948."
"1954 Mercedes-Benz 300SL 250 km/h (155 mph)"
Someone should fix them. TeePee-20.7 ( talk) 02:35, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Is really Shelby Super Cars the best reference to prove that Guiness have verified it's record? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.227.31.180 ( talk) 08:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Maybe if this article was titled Fastest Streel Legal car the Uhlenhaut coupe would have a place here but taking in to consideration that mercedes only made 2(two) of them, that they were never sold to anyone they hardly seem to be production cars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.85.0.66 ( talk • contribs) 12:00, February 9, 2008 (UTC)
When this record-breaking supercar car is coming up? 88.114.216.26 ( talk) 16:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Where is this car? In 1990 this babe broke the record. -- 190.25.6.109 ( talk) 21:22, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
I have to agree. Popular car magazines of the time touted the Lamborghini Diablo as the fastest production car in the world when it was introduced in 1990. I read it in Road and Track, if I remember correctly. Fungicord ( talk) 08:29, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Mercedes-Benz SSK Murphy Roadster between 31 and 35 examples were built with around half being factory-designated Rennwagens, or race cars. So only around 15 is made for street use. This table should have clear rules... --— Typ932 T | C 07:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
The single issue that arrised from this article is the ill defined nature of "production car." Road legal is simple enough depending on legal jurestiction but the requirments in terms of production volume are rather more moot: - Manufacturers who procure components & assemble cars only after orders are recieved, contrary to many common definitions of "mass production." - Very limited production runs - Factory "legalised" race cars (e.g. many Alfa Romeo pre-war offerings, some of which would count here)
Further to this defining a factory car seems equally tricky; comments above note companies such as (for example) RUF, who essentially produce cars which have a parent car from a major manufacturer as their development start point & repressent a collection of modified components (albeit with a few exceptions) thereof. While these can be purchased factory fresh they are still repressent a modification of a base product (intellectually & physically) from a major another manufacturer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.75.48.5 ( talk) 16:17, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
I propose that this article be cleaned up by being changed to 'Production Car Speed Records'. There is only one fastest car. This entry is about multiple records not a single car. Also, there should be a determination as to what counts as a production car so that a second list of 'Street Legal Car Speed Records' could be produced. For example, the Ruf CTR is not generally considered to have set a record for fastest production car- (Which at the time would I believe have been the Lamborghini Diablo) but it certainly would have qualified as fastest street legal car. The Ruf CTR, should not be on this list because it is a modified Porsche 911. OckRaz ( talk) 18:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Actually, you are wrong. A Ruf is not a Porsche. Do a little research - it is based on a porsche chassis - this is where it ends. Ruf is its own make, and has its own badge - which is the identifying and technical characteristic of a unique auto manufacturer (versus aftermarket modifier). jeeperjake 23:00, 23, November 2008 (PST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.237.48.105 ( talk)
I would argue with this. According to this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruf_CTR , production began in 1987 and 29 were built from scratch, rest converted from customer cars. Converted cars can not be considered mass produced as they are not produced by definition. So it is left with 29 actually built. If this number is enough to classify into this table, then why not include 25 built Porshe 917? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.238.96.5 ( talk) 07:59, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I see something missing in this table. For example, according to this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_917 In 1969 Porsche 917 was displayed at the Geneva Motor Show. 25 were built and they were sold to general public for the price of DM 140,000. Also there is stated that at least two 917s were road-registered. So, this car was mass produced (comparing to some other models from this table like Monteverdi Hai 450). It is definitely road legal as it was actually registerd for road use. Why then it is not included? It had a top speed of over 254 mph (407 km/h), thus it has to be the fastest car starting from 1970 up until SSC Ultimate Aero TT. So why isn't it?
Similar question - Koenigsegg CC, I thought, beat the F1 before the Veyron came along. It says so in the article on it?? 86.151.207.213 ( talk) 13:16, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
First - Countach was faster than Miura so it has to be placed betwin Miura and Ferrari 288 GTO. Second - since the RUF CTR is removed, Diablo is a one that has to be placed betwin F40 and EB110. Is it correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.238.96.5 ( talk) 07:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
LP400 (1974) was achieving 192 mph. There was also several high power 5.0l engine versions of LP400 (produced in 1975) made for Walter Wolf. It is believed to achieve 196-201mph. Definitely Countach is missing from the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.163.55.103 ( talk) 02:29, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
My problem with this list is that it lacks reliable source and I feel some of these are manufacturer claims, partically anything around the 1980s.
Well, heres one that isn't listed; some time ago, I seen a copy of Guinness Book of Records (presumably a '88 edition) which stated that the Lamborghini Countach 5000QV was the fastest production car. Donnie Park ( talk) 19:19, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
The article is contradictory as far as what the standards are for "fastest production car".
1) Recent winners are not "mass-produced". The current holder (Ultimate Aero TT) at best produced under ten cars and maybe even less than that of the model that was given the record.
2) The record-setting cars in the configuration where they won the record are absolutely not street-legal.
3) The record-setting cars are by every definition of the term "modified cars". They are not even close to whats being sold as the production car. They are typically at best a "limited edition" of one.
174.46.28.58 ( talk) 15:51, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
I would have to disagree with some of your points:
1) The Ultimate Aero is being produced to 50 cars, and Mclaren produced 66. I can see where you got the idea for the SSC, it was originally started as a limited edition but has since become the standard car.
2) The previous four cars (McLaren F1, Koenigsegg, Buggatti and SSC) were all stock.
3) See number 2.
~Sandypineman~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandypineman ( talk • contribs) 21:49, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Another problem is that this page is simply a supercar fan page. Nowhere is it considered that the Model T could have been the fastest car in the world at the time. In 1908 it could do 40mph. Was there another car that could go that fast? The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeantaud could do 39mph in the 1880s. Listing fast modern cars is fine, but in reality, if a car sets a land speed record of 125mph in the 1930s, it had to be faster than something that came before it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.120.20 ( talk) 19:03, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
This car does not belong on the list. It only beat the record in a modified non-street legal configuration (no emissions). 174.46.28.58 ( talk) 16:06, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Hi! It seems my pesky 10-year-old brother has been abusing my account... please note that none of the nonconstructive edits from this account where actually done by me!-- Vox Humana 8' 16:41, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
This is just poorly sourced random list of fast cars, this is not list of any organization-approved topspeeds, thats why its missing fast cars as this is just random list from random years... see also discussion in WP:CARS Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Automobiles#Fastest_production_car -- Typ932 T· C 21:31, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Is it meant to document the progression of the land speed record, or is it meant to list the fastest production cars ever? We need to define that criterion first before this article can be cleaned up. If the former, about 80% of this list will be deleted since it is not properly referenced. If the latter then more recent cars will need to be added and we need to set a minimum speed (perhaps 200mph or 300km/h or similar) and we'll also have a big headache with different versions of the same basic car (e.g. the Lamborghini Gallardo which was released in MANY different variations). Zunaid 08:20, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
"Production" is not the same as "mass produced". There will be a sanctioning body specifying a minimum number of examples produced. "Fastest" to me means top speed, but that should be specified as many people mistake "quick" for "fast". "street legal" is often mentioned, but on whose streets? The Ariel Atom for instance is legal in the UK, not America. I know the scope of wiki is not to define all these or decide which to include or discard, but they all need to be taken into consideration. Batvette ( talk) 15:00, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
There have been a couple of random alterations to the speeds of some of the cars listed here, without any reason why. I would recommend that any changes to speeds should refer to the references already included in the article, or supply good quality new references to support a change. Warren Whyte ( talk) 15:28, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
I guess Ariel Atom 500 v8 is the fastest car cos no one knows what is it top speed :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.95.130.41 ( talk) 13:38, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
This gap must be filled. There was a plenty of cars having top speed higher than 269 km/h stated for Ferrari 250 TR in this period of time. Miura P400S from 1968 has stated measured 276 km/h for example. Ferrari Dytona from 1968 was capable of 280 km/h. Ferrari 365 GT4 BB from 1973 as stated was capable of 303 km/h. And there was a Countach. All these were road legal, undoubtedly production cars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.183.236.73 ( talk) 08:59, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
Can anyone confirm that the stated speed of 167 mph (269 km/h) was ever actually reached in any road legal version of the 250? In fact, I have a sort of proof that this was probably not possible. The most powerful version 250 GTO was tested by The Motor magazine in 1982 and only reached 147 mph with estimated top speed of 160 mph. So, unless there is a reference to any test that supports 167 mph version, this entry should be either corrected or removed, since even the estimated top speed of the GTO is lower than the previous entry in the table (and I'm not sure if that one is realistic as well). Any thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.183.236.73 ( talk) 07:09, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
The stated top speed is an estimated one. There's no records of this car ever reaching such speed. The highest recorded speed for Mercedes Benz 300SL is 150 mph set by John Fitch in 2005. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.183.236.73 ( talk) 07:22, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
I think we have a problem here. As you know, in many cases manufacturers claimed much higher top speeds that actually could be reached by the vehicle. For instance 300 km/h for Miura or 200 mph for Countach. Obviously, we must only rely on the recorded results of testing. But the problem is that most of the older sports cars were never properly tested for the top speed and there's no records of the actual top speed ever reached. I think we should not use the calimed top speed for these older cars even if it seems realistic because this would make the table inconsistent. For example, the claimed top speed of the 1964 Ferrari 500 Superfast is 174 mph which is more than recorded top speed for 1966 Miura P400. Any suggestions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.183.236.73 ( talk) 08:48, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
I agree, this should be based on actual recorded top speeds of UNMODIFIED (so far as we can tell) cars by reliable sources. Most press cars before 1980 were probably tuned to some extent to make them unrepresentative but there isn't much we can do about that. Greglocock ( talk) 12:21, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Indeed - if a guinness world record is not available, then an independent road test is the best option. Manufacturer's claims are not sufficient. Warren ( talk) 16:55, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
What makes you so confident that cars tested after 1980 aren't tuned as well? What we must do, is only rely on verifiable sources to provide the figures. The web page currently linked to from the Miura speed is not a reliable published source, it just gives you the name of magazines that have recorded that speed. It doesn't even give the date of the test of the car in the magazine. A magazine will usually state whether the speed is claimed or 'as tested' and if a manufacturer claimed historically that their car could do 174 mph, I see no reason why that shouldn't be included in the list providing you state that it is the manufacturers claimed speed. I seem to recollect that even the XK120 'offically tested' to 120mph by The Motor wasn't the standard production version. Mighty Antar ( talk) 17:16, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
May I ask before I remove these pointless facts, what is the point of production totals on this list as like listing MSRP, this does nothing to contribute the reason why that car is the fastest. Donnie Park ( talk) 20:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
We have a problem here. Ferrari F40 had claimed top speed of 201 mph. It was tested not once. Quattroruote magazine managed to reach over 202 mph. AFAIK, this is the highest speed test result reported for F40. Now the problem is that Lamborghini Diablo had claimed top speed of 202 mph, just 1 more than F40 and was supposed to beat it. But this is less than Quattroruote actually managed to get from F40. So the question is, should we remove Diablo from the list, or use claimed speed instead of actual for the F40? What do you think? 93.183.236.73 ( talk) 07:54, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
I think that the independent test of the Ferrari F40 should top the Diablo, unless there is something in the test report that indicates it was inaccurate or the car was in some way modified. I don't have access to the cited magazine to check. NealeFamily ( talk) 20:04, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
I agree, except that the Diablo was measured at 206 by Road and Track in their Sept 1991 issue (the same one in which they famously declared the Ruf "Yellowbird" the fastest car in the world. Top Gear allegedly corroborated 206 as the top speed of the Diablo. This is also credible given that Sandro Munari achieved 211 on the Nardo ring in a Diablo, although this was only in one direction and not supported by test gear... Jvshenderson ( talk) 17:03, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
something is wrong with converter, speed of Mercedes-Benz 300SL is 140 mph that is 225 km/h and not 230 as we see in this article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.43.117.209 ( talk) 17:11, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
There is 3 cars with autocar citation, the autocar has no mention these are world fastests cars, they only say these are fastest they have tested, so these need sources they are fastest production cars in the world --> Typ932 T· C 06:29, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
I agree with the user 93.183.236.73. The source does not need to explicitly state that the car in question was the fastest in the world. All it needs to do is establish the speed (and perhaps the launch date of the car or the date of the first delivery to a customer) and the car in question will implicitly surpass the previous car on the list, thereby becoming the fastest car in the world until another car has an higher top speed established at a later date.
This is especially true because, as other users have pointed out, there is no universal definition of a "production car" that we on wikipedia, or the various sources that DO happen to call a car "the fastest" agree upon. A source stating that "The Grifo was considered the fastest production car one could buy in 1966" is not meaningful because there could have been faster cars that preceeded it but were no longer for sale in 1966, and because it depends on the specific source's definition of "production car."
This is a very small issue to be arguing when there are more important issues at hand: for instance, what to do about cars that were probably the fastest but were never measured as such: for instance, the Ferrari 410 Superamerica (estimated to go 165 mph in 1959 by Road and Track, but never measured). Jvshenderson ( talk) 16:59, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Do we need "Upcoming contenders" section? It's all based on unsupported claims and the cars that, in most cases, do not even exist. What is the point in it? Is Wikipedia a good place for spreading rumors, propaganda and most importantly - free advertising and PR for commercial companies? 93.183.236.73 ( talk) 07:59, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
I see someone is attempting to add a new list, the fastest 10 production cars of 2011. Quite why this had to be added in december is a bit beyond me. Anyway, the original list was quite interesting, this one strikes me as a desperate fanbois list of also-rans. But I would conceed that so long as they are genuine production cars then it could stay. Cars performance must be measured by qualified third party techs and reported in an RS. I think we should add a rider that the cars must be in standard trim, and currently for sale in that condition (ie once all 5 special unlimited cars are sold that model gets booted off the list). Greglocock ( talk) 06:58, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
The Ford GT40 received the Guinness World Record in 1967 with a top speed of 167mph but Motor tested another car faster in this period. ( See Forbes article for Ford reference)
I think it would be relevant to include the number of production cars of each mentioned that were produced in the spec that could have achieved the claimed speed. This might supply some context for the more ludicrous entries here. Greglocock ( talk) 08:33, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
The article on the Porsche 959 says that the sport version was for racing. If this is correct then it is not a road car and is therefore ineligible. I don't have sufficient information to confirm one way or the other, but other editors might like to review its inclusion. NealeFamily ( talk) 06:47, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
http://www.brooklandsmuseum.com/index.php?/history/record-breaking-at-brooklands-1920-1939/
Shouldnt this be included ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.201.68.87 ( talk) 05:49, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone have access to the 1962 article and does it have a valid independent test for the cars top speed of 153.5 mph? or any tests of the other DB4 models from that time. NealeFamily ( talk) 09:23, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
I think the magazine article I am trying to track down is from 13 April 1962. NealeFamily ( talk) 08:51, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
That was the speed as tested and given in the independant test for an unmodified production model. I don't think that should be open to debate. Typ932 would need to put forward something faster surely. As an aside, there is a possible contender the 1957 Ferrari 410 Super America - I haven't found a road test for it yet and it might knock out the E-Type. Speeds over 150mph have been cited in some sources, but no test results. NealeFamily ( talk) 03:17, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
There is comment on a website that this car was timed at 278kmh (172mph) by Motor Racing magazine (a UK publication) February 1960. There is also mention of French journalist Bernard Cahier road testing it, but I don't know the date or publication. I don't have access to the Motor Racing magazine or article to confirm this. The original 1959 model was created for the Shah of Persia who wanted a car that could exceed 175mph. His particular model had a slightly more powerful engine to all but one of the later models, so this speed seems plausible. NealeFamily ( talk) 03:26, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
If the table specifies speed of Porsche 959 Sport and then says "The 197 mph (317 km/h) top speed was recorded by the 959 Sport of which 6 were ever made , the table cant say that there is 337 made of those, very clear. Either its 6 and or the name should be changed more general Porsche 959 and use then 337 , but not like its now --> Typ932 T· C 01:46, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
But you are probably right about the name used. We should probably use a more general model name, not a specific version. This is better to be explained in the comment. 93.183.236.88 ( talk) 06:27, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
I put this article up on AFD, but it appears that it's going to be kept, so I'd like to start up some discussion on what needs to be done to fix it. I see the following issues:
I think that this article is best suited to being converted into a list of fastest production cars through the years. TomTheHand 19:52, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
The list on this article of the fastest cars is different to that of the "Fastest street-legal production car" box thingy at the bottom of the respective cars' articles. When you click through those you arrive at the Lambo Countach, which isn't in this list at all, and according to the Countach article there is no previous fastest car. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.66.8.120 ( talk) 21:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I believe it to make sense that this article be merged into, or simply entirely redirected to, List_of_automotive_superlatives#Performance as that article contains a much broader spectrum of information about other automobile records and this article is somewhat lacking in content and references as well as overall consistency and organization. The other article also already includes several notable past record-holders. Please leave any comments on this below with your belief as to the course of action that should be taken. Thank you. -- Ctrlfreak13 01:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Dont merge. 92.5.78.73 ( talk) 19:59, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
Both these statements are contradicting:
"The first production Ferrari was launched in 1948, using a shared engine from their V12 Grand Prix cars. The 410 Superamerica reached over 257 km/h (160 mph) in late 1948."
"1954 Mercedes-Benz 300SL 250 km/h (155 mph)"
Someone should fix them. TeePee-20.7 ( talk) 02:35, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Is really Shelby Super Cars the best reference to prove that Guiness have verified it's record? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.227.31.180 ( talk) 08:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Maybe if this article was titled Fastest Streel Legal car the Uhlenhaut coupe would have a place here but taking in to consideration that mercedes only made 2(two) of them, that they were never sold to anyone they hardly seem to be production cars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.85.0.66 ( talk • contribs) 12:00, February 9, 2008 (UTC)
When this record-breaking supercar car is coming up? 88.114.216.26 ( talk) 16:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Where is this car? In 1990 this babe broke the record. -- 190.25.6.109 ( talk) 21:22, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
I have to agree. Popular car magazines of the time touted the Lamborghini Diablo as the fastest production car in the world when it was introduced in 1990. I read it in Road and Track, if I remember correctly. Fungicord ( talk) 08:29, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Mercedes-Benz SSK Murphy Roadster between 31 and 35 examples were built with around half being factory-designated Rennwagens, or race cars. So only around 15 is made for street use. This table should have clear rules... --— Typ932 T | C 07:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
The single issue that arrised from this article is the ill defined nature of "production car." Road legal is simple enough depending on legal jurestiction but the requirments in terms of production volume are rather more moot: - Manufacturers who procure components & assemble cars only after orders are recieved, contrary to many common definitions of "mass production." - Very limited production runs - Factory "legalised" race cars (e.g. many Alfa Romeo pre-war offerings, some of which would count here)
Further to this defining a factory car seems equally tricky; comments above note companies such as (for example) RUF, who essentially produce cars which have a parent car from a major manufacturer as their development start point & repressent a collection of modified components (albeit with a few exceptions) thereof. While these can be purchased factory fresh they are still repressent a modification of a base product (intellectually & physically) from a major another manufacturer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.75.48.5 ( talk) 16:17, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
I propose that this article be cleaned up by being changed to 'Production Car Speed Records'. There is only one fastest car. This entry is about multiple records not a single car. Also, there should be a determination as to what counts as a production car so that a second list of 'Street Legal Car Speed Records' could be produced. For example, the Ruf CTR is not generally considered to have set a record for fastest production car- (Which at the time would I believe have been the Lamborghini Diablo) but it certainly would have qualified as fastest street legal car. The Ruf CTR, should not be on this list because it is a modified Porsche 911. OckRaz ( talk) 18:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Actually, you are wrong. A Ruf is not a Porsche. Do a little research - it is based on a porsche chassis - this is where it ends. Ruf is its own make, and has its own badge - which is the identifying and technical characteristic of a unique auto manufacturer (versus aftermarket modifier). jeeperjake 23:00, 23, November 2008 (PST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.237.48.105 ( talk)
I would argue with this. According to this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruf_CTR , production began in 1987 and 29 were built from scratch, rest converted from customer cars. Converted cars can not be considered mass produced as they are not produced by definition. So it is left with 29 actually built. If this number is enough to classify into this table, then why not include 25 built Porshe 917? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.238.96.5 ( talk) 07:59, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I see something missing in this table. For example, according to this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_917 In 1969 Porsche 917 was displayed at the Geneva Motor Show. 25 were built and they were sold to general public for the price of DM 140,000. Also there is stated that at least two 917s were road-registered. So, this car was mass produced (comparing to some other models from this table like Monteverdi Hai 450). It is definitely road legal as it was actually registerd for road use. Why then it is not included? It had a top speed of over 254 mph (407 km/h), thus it has to be the fastest car starting from 1970 up until SSC Ultimate Aero TT. So why isn't it?
Similar question - Koenigsegg CC, I thought, beat the F1 before the Veyron came along. It says so in the article on it?? 86.151.207.213 ( talk) 13:16, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
First - Countach was faster than Miura so it has to be placed betwin Miura and Ferrari 288 GTO. Second - since the RUF CTR is removed, Diablo is a one that has to be placed betwin F40 and EB110. Is it correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.238.96.5 ( talk) 07:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
LP400 (1974) was achieving 192 mph. There was also several high power 5.0l engine versions of LP400 (produced in 1975) made for Walter Wolf. It is believed to achieve 196-201mph. Definitely Countach is missing from the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.163.55.103 ( talk) 02:29, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
My problem with this list is that it lacks reliable source and I feel some of these are manufacturer claims, partically anything around the 1980s.
Well, heres one that isn't listed; some time ago, I seen a copy of Guinness Book of Records (presumably a '88 edition) which stated that the Lamborghini Countach 5000QV was the fastest production car. Donnie Park ( talk) 19:19, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
The article is contradictory as far as what the standards are for "fastest production car".
1) Recent winners are not "mass-produced". The current holder (Ultimate Aero TT) at best produced under ten cars and maybe even less than that of the model that was given the record.
2) The record-setting cars in the configuration where they won the record are absolutely not street-legal.
3) The record-setting cars are by every definition of the term "modified cars". They are not even close to whats being sold as the production car. They are typically at best a "limited edition" of one.
174.46.28.58 ( talk) 15:51, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
I would have to disagree with some of your points:
1) The Ultimate Aero is being produced to 50 cars, and Mclaren produced 66. I can see where you got the idea for the SSC, it was originally started as a limited edition but has since become the standard car.
2) The previous four cars (McLaren F1, Koenigsegg, Buggatti and SSC) were all stock.
3) See number 2.
~Sandypineman~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandypineman ( talk • contribs) 21:49, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Another problem is that this page is simply a supercar fan page. Nowhere is it considered that the Model T could have been the fastest car in the world at the time. In 1908 it could do 40mph. Was there another car that could go that fast? The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeantaud could do 39mph in the 1880s. Listing fast modern cars is fine, but in reality, if a car sets a land speed record of 125mph in the 1930s, it had to be faster than something that came before it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.120.20 ( talk) 19:03, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
This car does not belong on the list. It only beat the record in a modified non-street legal configuration (no emissions). 174.46.28.58 ( talk) 16:06, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Hi! It seems my pesky 10-year-old brother has been abusing my account... please note that none of the nonconstructive edits from this account where actually done by me!-- Vox Humana 8' 16:41, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
This is just poorly sourced random list of fast cars, this is not list of any organization-approved topspeeds, thats why its missing fast cars as this is just random list from random years... see also discussion in WP:CARS Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Automobiles#Fastest_production_car -- Typ932 T· C 21:31, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Is it meant to document the progression of the land speed record, or is it meant to list the fastest production cars ever? We need to define that criterion first before this article can be cleaned up. If the former, about 80% of this list will be deleted since it is not properly referenced. If the latter then more recent cars will need to be added and we need to set a minimum speed (perhaps 200mph or 300km/h or similar) and we'll also have a big headache with different versions of the same basic car (e.g. the Lamborghini Gallardo which was released in MANY different variations). Zunaid 08:20, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
"Production" is not the same as "mass produced". There will be a sanctioning body specifying a minimum number of examples produced. "Fastest" to me means top speed, but that should be specified as many people mistake "quick" for "fast". "street legal" is often mentioned, but on whose streets? The Ariel Atom for instance is legal in the UK, not America. I know the scope of wiki is not to define all these or decide which to include or discard, but they all need to be taken into consideration. Batvette ( talk) 15:00, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
There have been a couple of random alterations to the speeds of some of the cars listed here, without any reason why. I would recommend that any changes to speeds should refer to the references already included in the article, or supply good quality new references to support a change. Warren Whyte ( talk) 15:28, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
I guess Ariel Atom 500 v8 is the fastest car cos no one knows what is it top speed :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.95.130.41 ( talk) 13:38, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
This gap must be filled. There was a plenty of cars having top speed higher than 269 km/h stated for Ferrari 250 TR in this period of time. Miura P400S from 1968 has stated measured 276 km/h for example. Ferrari Dytona from 1968 was capable of 280 km/h. Ferrari 365 GT4 BB from 1973 as stated was capable of 303 km/h. And there was a Countach. All these were road legal, undoubtedly production cars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.183.236.73 ( talk) 08:59, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
Can anyone confirm that the stated speed of 167 mph (269 km/h) was ever actually reached in any road legal version of the 250? In fact, I have a sort of proof that this was probably not possible. The most powerful version 250 GTO was tested by The Motor magazine in 1982 and only reached 147 mph with estimated top speed of 160 mph. So, unless there is a reference to any test that supports 167 mph version, this entry should be either corrected or removed, since even the estimated top speed of the GTO is lower than the previous entry in the table (and I'm not sure if that one is realistic as well). Any thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.183.236.73 ( talk) 07:09, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
The stated top speed is an estimated one. There's no records of this car ever reaching such speed. The highest recorded speed for Mercedes Benz 300SL is 150 mph set by John Fitch in 2005. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.183.236.73 ( talk) 07:22, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
I think we have a problem here. As you know, in many cases manufacturers claimed much higher top speeds that actually could be reached by the vehicle. For instance 300 km/h for Miura or 200 mph for Countach. Obviously, we must only rely on the recorded results of testing. But the problem is that most of the older sports cars were never properly tested for the top speed and there's no records of the actual top speed ever reached. I think we should not use the calimed top speed for these older cars even if it seems realistic because this would make the table inconsistent. For example, the claimed top speed of the 1964 Ferrari 500 Superfast is 174 mph which is more than recorded top speed for 1966 Miura P400. Any suggestions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.183.236.73 ( talk) 08:48, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
I agree, this should be based on actual recorded top speeds of UNMODIFIED (so far as we can tell) cars by reliable sources. Most press cars before 1980 were probably tuned to some extent to make them unrepresentative but there isn't much we can do about that. Greglocock ( talk) 12:21, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Indeed - if a guinness world record is not available, then an independent road test is the best option. Manufacturer's claims are not sufficient. Warren ( talk) 16:55, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
What makes you so confident that cars tested after 1980 aren't tuned as well? What we must do, is only rely on verifiable sources to provide the figures. The web page currently linked to from the Miura speed is not a reliable published source, it just gives you the name of magazines that have recorded that speed. It doesn't even give the date of the test of the car in the magazine. A magazine will usually state whether the speed is claimed or 'as tested' and if a manufacturer claimed historically that their car could do 174 mph, I see no reason why that shouldn't be included in the list providing you state that it is the manufacturers claimed speed. I seem to recollect that even the XK120 'offically tested' to 120mph by The Motor wasn't the standard production version. Mighty Antar ( talk) 17:16, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
May I ask before I remove these pointless facts, what is the point of production totals on this list as like listing MSRP, this does nothing to contribute the reason why that car is the fastest. Donnie Park ( talk) 20:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
We have a problem here. Ferrari F40 had claimed top speed of 201 mph. It was tested not once. Quattroruote magazine managed to reach over 202 mph. AFAIK, this is the highest speed test result reported for F40. Now the problem is that Lamborghini Diablo had claimed top speed of 202 mph, just 1 more than F40 and was supposed to beat it. But this is less than Quattroruote actually managed to get from F40. So the question is, should we remove Diablo from the list, or use claimed speed instead of actual for the F40? What do you think? 93.183.236.73 ( talk) 07:54, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
I think that the independent test of the Ferrari F40 should top the Diablo, unless there is something in the test report that indicates it was inaccurate or the car was in some way modified. I don't have access to the cited magazine to check. NealeFamily ( talk) 20:04, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
I agree, except that the Diablo was measured at 206 by Road and Track in their Sept 1991 issue (the same one in which they famously declared the Ruf "Yellowbird" the fastest car in the world. Top Gear allegedly corroborated 206 as the top speed of the Diablo. This is also credible given that Sandro Munari achieved 211 on the Nardo ring in a Diablo, although this was only in one direction and not supported by test gear... Jvshenderson ( talk) 17:03, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
something is wrong with converter, speed of Mercedes-Benz 300SL is 140 mph that is 225 km/h and not 230 as we see in this article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.43.117.209 ( talk) 17:11, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
There is 3 cars with autocar citation, the autocar has no mention these are world fastests cars, they only say these are fastest they have tested, so these need sources they are fastest production cars in the world --> Typ932 T· C 06:29, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
I agree with the user 93.183.236.73. The source does not need to explicitly state that the car in question was the fastest in the world. All it needs to do is establish the speed (and perhaps the launch date of the car or the date of the first delivery to a customer) and the car in question will implicitly surpass the previous car on the list, thereby becoming the fastest car in the world until another car has an higher top speed established at a later date.
This is especially true because, as other users have pointed out, there is no universal definition of a "production car" that we on wikipedia, or the various sources that DO happen to call a car "the fastest" agree upon. A source stating that "The Grifo was considered the fastest production car one could buy in 1966" is not meaningful because there could have been faster cars that preceeded it but were no longer for sale in 1966, and because it depends on the specific source's definition of "production car."
This is a very small issue to be arguing when there are more important issues at hand: for instance, what to do about cars that were probably the fastest but were never measured as such: for instance, the Ferrari 410 Superamerica (estimated to go 165 mph in 1959 by Road and Track, but never measured). Jvshenderson ( talk) 16:59, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Do we need "Upcoming contenders" section? It's all based on unsupported claims and the cars that, in most cases, do not even exist. What is the point in it? Is Wikipedia a good place for spreading rumors, propaganda and most importantly - free advertising and PR for commercial companies? 93.183.236.73 ( talk) 07:59, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
I see someone is attempting to add a new list, the fastest 10 production cars of 2011. Quite why this had to be added in december is a bit beyond me. Anyway, the original list was quite interesting, this one strikes me as a desperate fanbois list of also-rans. But I would conceed that so long as they are genuine production cars then it could stay. Cars performance must be measured by qualified third party techs and reported in an RS. I think we should add a rider that the cars must be in standard trim, and currently for sale in that condition (ie once all 5 special unlimited cars are sold that model gets booted off the list). Greglocock ( talk) 06:58, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
The Ford GT40 received the Guinness World Record in 1967 with a top speed of 167mph but Motor tested another car faster in this period. ( See Forbes article for Ford reference)
I think it would be relevant to include the number of production cars of each mentioned that were produced in the spec that could have achieved the claimed speed. This might supply some context for the more ludicrous entries here. Greglocock ( talk) 08:33, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
The article on the Porsche 959 says that the sport version was for racing. If this is correct then it is not a road car and is therefore ineligible. I don't have sufficient information to confirm one way or the other, but other editors might like to review its inclusion. NealeFamily ( talk) 06:47, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
http://www.brooklandsmuseum.com/index.php?/history/record-breaking-at-brooklands-1920-1939/
Shouldnt this be included ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.201.68.87 ( talk) 05:49, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone have access to the 1962 article and does it have a valid independent test for the cars top speed of 153.5 mph? or any tests of the other DB4 models from that time. NealeFamily ( talk) 09:23, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
I think the magazine article I am trying to track down is from 13 April 1962. NealeFamily ( talk) 08:51, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
That was the speed as tested and given in the independant test for an unmodified production model. I don't think that should be open to debate. Typ932 would need to put forward something faster surely. As an aside, there is a possible contender the 1957 Ferrari 410 Super America - I haven't found a road test for it yet and it might knock out the E-Type. Speeds over 150mph have been cited in some sources, but no test results. NealeFamily ( talk) 03:17, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
There is comment on a website that this car was timed at 278kmh (172mph) by Motor Racing magazine (a UK publication) February 1960. There is also mention of French journalist Bernard Cahier road testing it, but I don't know the date or publication. I don't have access to the Motor Racing magazine or article to confirm this. The original 1959 model was created for the Shah of Persia who wanted a car that could exceed 175mph. His particular model had a slightly more powerful engine to all but one of the later models, so this speed seems plausible. NealeFamily ( talk) 03:26, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
If the table specifies speed of Porsche 959 Sport and then says "The 197 mph (317 km/h) top speed was recorded by the 959 Sport of which 6 were ever made , the table cant say that there is 337 made of those, very clear. Either its 6 and or the name should be changed more general Porsche 959 and use then 337 , but not like its now --> Typ932 T· C 01:46, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
But you are probably right about the name used. We should probably use a more general model name, not a specific version. This is better to be explained in the comment. 93.183.236.88 ( talk) 06:27, 29 May 2012 (UTC)