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See also the Wikipedia repository of Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense
(Why? I see nothing related there. Do we need a talk page here?)
-- Discordianism seems to inspire people to write a lot of silly things - I wanted to direct them to the appropriate page for (merely) silly things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.191.188.xxx ( talk • contribs) 13:44, 29 November 2001 (UTC)
-- see the note at the bottom of Discordianism.
Discordians also don't tend to follow directions. Better to just watch the page and revert or (better) refactor silliness. Martin
I'm not even sure what this means, if anything, but I suspect it to be inaccurate. You can get one on Amazon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.41.104 ( talk • contribs) 23:03, 5 April 2005 (UTC)
There have been many different printings. You can print your own as well since the original material is not copyrighted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mutante23 ( talk • contribs) 22:39, 7 April 2005 (UTC)
User:23skidoo, I don't think your comment on the SJG version is accurate - do you have some support for it? My understanding was that SJ just thinks Discordianism is cool.
DenisMoskowitz 20:54, 2005 Apr 21 (UTC)
You shouldn't take anything they say about anything(including themselves) seriously. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sidaki ( talk • contribs) 11:18, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I would like to upload the complete Principia as jpg scans ,since its not copyrighted (see above) that should be no problem. But would you think that takes too much space and delete it? (Or send me to Wikibooks maybe?) Wanted to ask before starting.. If you say using jpg files is too much, i would like to post a text/html version. Mutante23 22:39, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
There are already many versions of the Principia already uploaded, just do a quick Google search and you should be able to find any format you want. Eldamorie 00:27, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
Does it really pre-date the Illuminatus Trillogy? I always figured it was written afterwards. When was it originally written? Anyone know? First printed? By whom? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.181.67.36 ( talk • contribs) 13:58, 20 April 2005 (UTC)
Strange to notice that that's missing from the article. I'll add what's known. DenisMoskowitz 00:43, 2005 Apr 21 (UTC)
"It features typewritten and handwritten text intermixed with clipart, stamps, and seals appropriated from other sources, possibly in violation of copyright laws." This had originally read "from other sources, possibly illegally." I think the reason for that was to cover the possibility that some of the physical stamps (e.g. gov't stamps) were "appropriated." Schizombie 06:25, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
Is there any verification that the first three editions existed ? Or could they be added to give versimilitude to the 4th edition ?
-- Beardo 05:15, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Recently a copy of the 1st edition has been found within the JFK Collection. Because of Kerry Thornley's connection with Lee Harvey Oswald (they both served together) they questioned Kerry, and either he or someone who had a copy gave it to the investigations committe or some such, and recently it was found, scanned and made available over on the 23 Apples Of Eris website. [1] granted this is before (K) All Rites Reserved became a part of the Principia Discordia, and while it was part of a public archive the actual copyrights are probably with the Authors Estates... full details of the finding and copyright status etc, can be found here [2] hope this 'illumnates' everything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.71.69 ( talk • contribs) 23:33, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
If anyone knows where an online (or who has a copy they could get online) copy of the Second Edition, its the missing link you could say as the 1st and 3rd, 4&5th, have been found, a 2nd edition copy if found and pointed to would be amazing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.71.69 ( talk • contribs) 03:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I can't say I've read this rubbish, but can anyone verify the Yin Yang being a symbol in the book (as mentioned in the opnening paragraph of the article)? I certainly hope no-one's confusing this with the "hodge-poodge" of Discordianism with the apple of discord and the pentagon. If anyone has further information on this matter, please posta follow up here, and remove the reference in the article as neccessary. Bmearns 16:55, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
The Fourth Edition is called the most popular here, but isn't it the fifth? I think the only printings of the 4th were Rip Off Press and Revisionist Press, and all the others were the 5th. Perhaps Loompanics did a 4th prior to their 5th but I haven't seen one. Esquizombi 23:12, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
The original 5th Edition (Malaclypse's) was the Western Union MMMMMM version. The Loompaniacs Edition included both a reprint of the 4th Edition (with modified text -- the 1st Sacred Chao picture, POEE Disorganizational matrix appear to have been reprinted from reduced photocopies of the originals), the Gypsie Skrypto interview, the 1st printing of the 5th Edition, and the Wilson introduction. Note that while the 4th Edition, interview and 5th Edition were all SPECIFICALLY Kopylefted in the text, the Wilson intro was not. By the laws of the time, this might indicate that it IS under copyright, though I believe he intended it not to be.
The 2nd 5th Edition (Omar's) was printed by IllumiNet Press, and included everything in the Loompaniacs edition, plus the introduction by Omar, copies of which can be found on the web. As I have not examined any copies of this myself, I don't know if the Omar introduction is Kopylefted or not.
The hardcover Revisionist Press edition appears to be not a separate edition, but 200 copies of the original 4th Edition print run that were cut down the fold after the staples were removed and bound into book form. An examination of my copy (I got LUCKY...) shows that what would be the front and back covers of the original edition are of card stock, and the aforementioned pages from the Loomaniacs edition are larger and more detailed. Some of the photocopying is, however, of less detail than the offset Loompaniacs version.
I am putting this information on this page as these are observations from my own research, and I can't cite a source at the moment.
These 4 paragraphs (K)opyleft by ME -- reprint where and what of it thou wilt, just put a credit to me and link to my web site -- Icarus 23
I wonder if anybody's had a chance to read this book yet? I just bought it; it seems to have some content from the PD but reformatted and mixed up with a lot of new content. Шизомби 05:08, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Someone (but not me - conflict of interest, sorry, I can't do it) might like to change the external link to the Myth of Starbuck - it's currently pointing to Rev.Loveshade's reposted copy of my page, but the original page at http://appendix.23ae.com/pd1/13.html is the source. Of course, you guys may prefer to point the wikipedia at the (very fine and worthy) Rev.Loveshade's copy instead, in which case it's none of my business. Cheers! Drjon 07:51, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but can we say petty? DrJon says he won't get involved on which link to the myth is used, and says he won't get involved, and did he mention he won't get involved? Give me a break--that's getting involved. And supporters of Rev. Loveshade keep changing the link when there's no good reason to bother changing it.
Look, Rev. DrJon Swabey didn't write The Myth of Starbuck and neither did Reverend Loveshade. It was written by someone who's dead now. The work doesn't belong to anyone who's involved in this whole silly conflict. You can now find it on the Internet which is great. Who cares where?
And I'm sorry, but this business of linking where it first appeared online is hogwash. Does the article on Britney Spears link to the first site she ever appeared on? Or the one on Michael Jackson? What difference does it make?
Ok, I'll give credit where credit is due. Rev. Loveshade promoted the idea of Apocrypha Discordia and making a sequel when Steve Jackson dropped it. Fine. Then Rev. DrJon Swabey compiled the work and collected a lot of great stuff from all over. Fine. Loveshade can brag that he met with Greg Hill and Kerry Thornley before they died, boast that Greg Hill praised his work and tell how Thornley ranted about some conspiracy involving a warehouse and everyone born in a certain year dying by fire. Fine. DrJon talked with the Hill family and friends and was one of the people--not the only one, mind you--who helped get The Myth of Starbuck and the First Edition on the Internet after it was buried somewhere in the John F. Kennedy archives. Fine.
That's all great. But what does that have to do with this article?
Somebody will probably change it back, but I just eliminated the whole controversy. There's a link to DrJon's site, there's a link to Loveshade's site. Now will that make everyone happy? IamthatIam 06:01, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Why is Ronin Publishing's edition "questionable"? Petronivs 13:19, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
I DO own a copy of this edition. I owned several copies of the Steve Jackson Games edition (all permanently 'borrowed' by 'friends' - haha) and while in Korea, it seemed I couldn't order that edition anymore, but I did manage to order this one. As soon as it arrived, I covered it in a plastic cover to protect it... when I opened it up, I felt ripped-off and angry. There are numerous edits, changes, and (seemingly) deliberate typos... and a copyright notice that warns me if I distribute copies of it, I risk the curse of greyface or some nonsense. Entire pieces of the mythos have been removed and most of the original artwork was replaced by MS Word clip art and images probably not even from the public domain anyway, including a picture of Thornley. One of these days I hope to scan it and post it on the Internet for more public derision but the thing is just of such disappointing quality that I don't know if I can be bothered... seriously, so many typos and changes... none of them for the better. Darkpoet ( talk) 17:28, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
Petronivs removed my edit stating Discordiansim is a parody religion (that is, a religion created as a parody of other religions), and requested supporting references. OK. Note that the term parody implies the use of ironic truth to poke fun at serious religions. The the hacker technique of recursion is employed to illuminate them as with the infinite regress of parallel facing mirrors.
Since we can say silly things here, I will put the thing I GREATLY resised the temptation to add after the Foreign Translation page: I, Icarus 23, HC, KSC, Episkopos of the MSDD, have declared that upon the translations of the PD attaining 5 languages total (we're almost there if the Polish one grows beyond a page) that there will be a special ceremony of the DDDD held to open up the higher levels of IT. Posessors of HARDCOVER copies of the Principia and authors of thie own Discordian texts are also strongly encouraged to participate. Further discussion here not encouraged, please email me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Icarus 23 ( talk • contribs) 05:53, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Pentabarf is a redirect to this page but there is mention of the term here. If the terms are synonymous, it should be noted in the page. Perhaps it would be good to know where the (very usual) term "Pentabarf" comes from in the text of this article. — mako ( talk• contribs) 20:44, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
It IS a parody religion. And if it's not, it's certainly NOT a true religion with a true sacred text. Religions are socially organized and involve serious followers. Some people may claim discordianism is a real religion, but it's mostly a counter culture "hippie" based movement, which is as religious as taking drugs like LSD, for that matter. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.211.149.108 ( talk • contribs) 14:25, March 22, 2007 (UTC)).
This article (and a few other related, mutually cross-referencing articles) was created as an experiment and has been used to demonstrate various facets of reliability of internet sources. The original idea was principally rooted in humour. However, as it has evolved it has become a useful source and reference of itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.108.108 ( talk • contribs) 21:26, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
I had uploaded the basic Principia to Scribd and was recently notified that it was taken down. When I asked why, as the core content is explicitly kopylefted, I was told: "This content is marked as copyrighted in Scribd's BookID database by the Robert Anton Wilson Estate". Does the Robert Anton Wilson Estate indeed hold the copyright to the entirety of the Principia? 70.62.26.165 ( talk) 03:33, 7 April 2014 (UTC)This post deliberately left unsigned.
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Editors should please note that WP:BURDEN explicitly says that giving editors time to provide citations once they have said they intend to do so is part of the process: "In some cases, editors may object if you remove material without giving them time to provide references. Consider adding a citation needed tag as an interim step." Since multiple editors have stated that they intend to provide citations, a courtesy sensitive reading of WP:BURDEN would suggest that continued removals without first tagging and then giving other editors time to do their work would be against the clearly stated spirit of WP:BURDEN. Skyerise ( talk) 22:44, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Principia Discordia article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
See also the Wikipedia repository of Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense
(Why? I see nothing related there. Do we need a talk page here?)
-- Discordianism seems to inspire people to write a lot of silly things - I wanted to direct them to the appropriate page for (merely) silly things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.191.188.xxx ( talk • contribs) 13:44, 29 November 2001 (UTC)
-- see the note at the bottom of Discordianism.
Discordians also don't tend to follow directions. Better to just watch the page and revert or (better) refactor silliness. Martin
I'm not even sure what this means, if anything, but I suspect it to be inaccurate. You can get one on Amazon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.41.104 ( talk • contribs) 23:03, 5 April 2005 (UTC)
There have been many different printings. You can print your own as well since the original material is not copyrighted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mutante23 ( talk • contribs) 22:39, 7 April 2005 (UTC)
User:23skidoo, I don't think your comment on the SJG version is accurate - do you have some support for it? My understanding was that SJ just thinks Discordianism is cool.
DenisMoskowitz 20:54, 2005 Apr 21 (UTC)
You shouldn't take anything they say about anything(including themselves) seriously. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sidaki ( talk • contribs) 11:18, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I would like to upload the complete Principia as jpg scans ,since its not copyrighted (see above) that should be no problem. But would you think that takes too much space and delete it? (Or send me to Wikibooks maybe?) Wanted to ask before starting.. If you say using jpg files is too much, i would like to post a text/html version. Mutante23 22:39, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
There are already many versions of the Principia already uploaded, just do a quick Google search and you should be able to find any format you want. Eldamorie 00:27, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
Does it really pre-date the Illuminatus Trillogy? I always figured it was written afterwards. When was it originally written? Anyone know? First printed? By whom? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.181.67.36 ( talk • contribs) 13:58, 20 April 2005 (UTC)
Strange to notice that that's missing from the article. I'll add what's known. DenisMoskowitz 00:43, 2005 Apr 21 (UTC)
"It features typewritten and handwritten text intermixed with clipart, stamps, and seals appropriated from other sources, possibly in violation of copyright laws." This had originally read "from other sources, possibly illegally." I think the reason for that was to cover the possibility that some of the physical stamps (e.g. gov't stamps) were "appropriated." Schizombie 06:25, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
Is there any verification that the first three editions existed ? Or could they be added to give versimilitude to the 4th edition ?
-- Beardo 05:15, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Recently a copy of the 1st edition has been found within the JFK Collection. Because of Kerry Thornley's connection with Lee Harvey Oswald (they both served together) they questioned Kerry, and either he or someone who had a copy gave it to the investigations committe or some such, and recently it was found, scanned and made available over on the 23 Apples Of Eris website. [1] granted this is before (K) All Rites Reserved became a part of the Principia Discordia, and while it was part of a public archive the actual copyrights are probably with the Authors Estates... full details of the finding and copyright status etc, can be found here [2] hope this 'illumnates' everything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.71.69 ( talk • contribs) 23:33, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
If anyone knows where an online (or who has a copy they could get online) copy of the Second Edition, its the missing link you could say as the 1st and 3rd, 4&5th, have been found, a 2nd edition copy if found and pointed to would be amazing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.71.69 ( talk • contribs) 03:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I can't say I've read this rubbish, but can anyone verify the Yin Yang being a symbol in the book (as mentioned in the opnening paragraph of the article)? I certainly hope no-one's confusing this with the "hodge-poodge" of Discordianism with the apple of discord and the pentagon. If anyone has further information on this matter, please posta follow up here, and remove the reference in the article as neccessary. Bmearns 16:55, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
The Fourth Edition is called the most popular here, but isn't it the fifth? I think the only printings of the 4th were Rip Off Press and Revisionist Press, and all the others were the 5th. Perhaps Loompanics did a 4th prior to their 5th but I haven't seen one. Esquizombi 23:12, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
The original 5th Edition (Malaclypse's) was the Western Union MMMMMM version. The Loompaniacs Edition included both a reprint of the 4th Edition (with modified text -- the 1st Sacred Chao picture, POEE Disorganizational matrix appear to have been reprinted from reduced photocopies of the originals), the Gypsie Skrypto interview, the 1st printing of the 5th Edition, and the Wilson introduction. Note that while the 4th Edition, interview and 5th Edition were all SPECIFICALLY Kopylefted in the text, the Wilson intro was not. By the laws of the time, this might indicate that it IS under copyright, though I believe he intended it not to be.
The 2nd 5th Edition (Omar's) was printed by IllumiNet Press, and included everything in the Loompaniacs edition, plus the introduction by Omar, copies of which can be found on the web. As I have not examined any copies of this myself, I don't know if the Omar introduction is Kopylefted or not.
The hardcover Revisionist Press edition appears to be not a separate edition, but 200 copies of the original 4th Edition print run that were cut down the fold after the staples were removed and bound into book form. An examination of my copy (I got LUCKY...) shows that what would be the front and back covers of the original edition are of card stock, and the aforementioned pages from the Loomaniacs edition are larger and more detailed. Some of the photocopying is, however, of less detail than the offset Loompaniacs version.
I am putting this information on this page as these are observations from my own research, and I can't cite a source at the moment.
These 4 paragraphs (K)opyleft by ME -- reprint where and what of it thou wilt, just put a credit to me and link to my web site -- Icarus 23
I wonder if anybody's had a chance to read this book yet? I just bought it; it seems to have some content from the PD but reformatted and mixed up with a lot of new content. Шизомби 05:08, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Someone (but not me - conflict of interest, sorry, I can't do it) might like to change the external link to the Myth of Starbuck - it's currently pointing to Rev.Loveshade's reposted copy of my page, but the original page at http://appendix.23ae.com/pd1/13.html is the source. Of course, you guys may prefer to point the wikipedia at the (very fine and worthy) Rev.Loveshade's copy instead, in which case it's none of my business. Cheers! Drjon 07:51, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but can we say petty? DrJon says he won't get involved on which link to the myth is used, and says he won't get involved, and did he mention he won't get involved? Give me a break--that's getting involved. And supporters of Rev. Loveshade keep changing the link when there's no good reason to bother changing it.
Look, Rev. DrJon Swabey didn't write The Myth of Starbuck and neither did Reverend Loveshade. It was written by someone who's dead now. The work doesn't belong to anyone who's involved in this whole silly conflict. You can now find it on the Internet which is great. Who cares where?
And I'm sorry, but this business of linking where it first appeared online is hogwash. Does the article on Britney Spears link to the first site she ever appeared on? Or the one on Michael Jackson? What difference does it make?
Ok, I'll give credit where credit is due. Rev. Loveshade promoted the idea of Apocrypha Discordia and making a sequel when Steve Jackson dropped it. Fine. Then Rev. DrJon Swabey compiled the work and collected a lot of great stuff from all over. Fine. Loveshade can brag that he met with Greg Hill and Kerry Thornley before they died, boast that Greg Hill praised his work and tell how Thornley ranted about some conspiracy involving a warehouse and everyone born in a certain year dying by fire. Fine. DrJon talked with the Hill family and friends and was one of the people--not the only one, mind you--who helped get The Myth of Starbuck and the First Edition on the Internet after it was buried somewhere in the John F. Kennedy archives. Fine.
That's all great. But what does that have to do with this article?
Somebody will probably change it back, but I just eliminated the whole controversy. There's a link to DrJon's site, there's a link to Loveshade's site. Now will that make everyone happy? IamthatIam 06:01, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Why is Ronin Publishing's edition "questionable"? Petronivs 13:19, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
I DO own a copy of this edition. I owned several copies of the Steve Jackson Games edition (all permanently 'borrowed' by 'friends' - haha) and while in Korea, it seemed I couldn't order that edition anymore, but I did manage to order this one. As soon as it arrived, I covered it in a plastic cover to protect it... when I opened it up, I felt ripped-off and angry. There are numerous edits, changes, and (seemingly) deliberate typos... and a copyright notice that warns me if I distribute copies of it, I risk the curse of greyface or some nonsense. Entire pieces of the mythos have been removed and most of the original artwork was replaced by MS Word clip art and images probably not even from the public domain anyway, including a picture of Thornley. One of these days I hope to scan it and post it on the Internet for more public derision but the thing is just of such disappointing quality that I don't know if I can be bothered... seriously, so many typos and changes... none of them for the better. Darkpoet ( talk) 17:28, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
Petronivs removed my edit stating Discordiansim is a parody religion (that is, a religion created as a parody of other religions), and requested supporting references. OK. Note that the term parody implies the use of ironic truth to poke fun at serious religions. The the hacker technique of recursion is employed to illuminate them as with the infinite regress of parallel facing mirrors.
Since we can say silly things here, I will put the thing I GREATLY resised the temptation to add after the Foreign Translation page: I, Icarus 23, HC, KSC, Episkopos of the MSDD, have declared that upon the translations of the PD attaining 5 languages total (we're almost there if the Polish one grows beyond a page) that there will be a special ceremony of the DDDD held to open up the higher levels of IT. Posessors of HARDCOVER copies of the Principia and authors of thie own Discordian texts are also strongly encouraged to participate. Further discussion here not encouraged, please email me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Icarus 23 ( talk • contribs) 05:53, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Pentabarf is a redirect to this page but there is mention of the term here. If the terms are synonymous, it should be noted in the page. Perhaps it would be good to know where the (very usual) term "Pentabarf" comes from in the text of this article. — mako ( talk• contribs) 20:44, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
It IS a parody religion. And if it's not, it's certainly NOT a true religion with a true sacred text. Religions are socially organized and involve serious followers. Some people may claim discordianism is a real religion, but it's mostly a counter culture "hippie" based movement, which is as religious as taking drugs like LSD, for that matter. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.211.149.108 ( talk • contribs) 14:25, March 22, 2007 (UTC)).
This article (and a few other related, mutually cross-referencing articles) was created as an experiment and has been used to demonstrate various facets of reliability of internet sources. The original idea was principally rooted in humour. However, as it has evolved it has become a useful source and reference of itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.108.108 ( talk • contribs) 21:26, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
I had uploaded the basic Principia to Scribd and was recently notified that it was taken down. When I asked why, as the core content is explicitly kopylefted, I was told: "This content is marked as copyrighted in Scribd's BookID database by the Robert Anton Wilson Estate". Does the Robert Anton Wilson Estate indeed hold the copyright to the entirety of the Principia? 70.62.26.165 ( talk) 03:33, 7 April 2014 (UTC)This post deliberately left unsigned.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Principia Discordia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:13, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Editors should please note that WP:BURDEN explicitly says that giving editors time to provide citations once they have said they intend to do so is part of the process: "In some cases, editors may object if you remove material without giving them time to provide references. Consider adding a citation needed tag as an interim step." Since multiple editors have stated that they intend to provide citations, a courtesy sensitive reading of WP:BURDEN would suggest that continued removals without first tagging and then giving other editors time to do their work would be against the clearly stated spirit of WP:BURDEN. Skyerise ( talk) 22:44, 9 April 2024 (UTC)