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I don't believe that Ms. Boel would have had the option of "taking her mother's title," since titles in Europe usually descend through the male line only, unless the mother is a reigning monarch or was granted some special concession. That sentence may need to be rewritten or removed. 68.72.97.109 ( talk) 19:35, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
"Tu n'es pas ma fille" doesn't translate to "You are not my daughter anymore". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.162.44.1 ( talk) 16:42, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
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@ Helsing90: argues that Boel isn't Albert II's daughter. What say you all? GoodDay ( talk) 21:48, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
@ Helsing90:, Jacques Boël is not the legal father of Delphine, that was decided at the highest court (Cassatie) last year, as reported in many, many sources (in English, French and Dutch). Fram ( talk) 07:45, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Aaand she's just been granted the title of 'Princess of Belgium', as have her children (yes, yes, I know). JWULTRABLIZZARD ( talk) 18:14, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
She won the royal name, yes - but the royal style and title?
I see that most, if not all, sources claiming that she now is a Princess goes back to the statement her lawyer made. Not the actual case ruling in itself. It should be noted that representatives of King Albert state that the matter of Princely titles is not for the court to decide, but the head of the Royal House of Belgium by Royal Decree. https://www.insider.com/former-king-albert-belgium-daughter-delphine-royal-title-2020-9 Further substantion is needed. Jonar242 ( talk) 08:53, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Does anybody have a decent source for the purported marriage of Delphine? The first source cited says "husband", but without further precision. The second source cited only says they are living together since 2003 - just as any other source I've seen until now. So, there is a serious doubt about that marriage. Sigur ( talk) 17:57, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
At least in 2009, she was not married to O'Hare. See here. Without confirmation from either of the two, we shouldn't describe them as married. Fram ( talk) 08:42, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
And apparently in 2020 they aren't married either: [2]: "Delphine noemt Jim haar echtgenoot, maar ze zijn niet getrouwd." Fram ( talk) 08:42, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
Delphine Boël may be the daughter of King Albert, but she was born in 1968, nine years after her father was married to Queen Paola, whom he has been married to ever since. There is no evidence that he was ever married to Delphine's mother. There is no evidence at all that she isn't illegitimate, like the Duke of Monmouth tried to claim to assert 'his' rights. Delphine doesn't seem to have made a case for the idea that her parents were secretly married at all, so how in the world could she be a princess? Let alone her children - after all, their father was not related to royalty at all. Unless by naming Delphine "Princess Delphine of Belgium" they are proclaiming her sovereign princess of a new nation that is coincidentally also named Belgium, which is the only way I can see for her children to be royalty - and it's hardly more absurd than what they're currently doing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.114.0.125 ( talk) 16:56, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
In public and private acts concerning them, the Princes and Princesses, children and grandchildren, direct descendants of His Majesty King Albert II bear the title of Prince or Princess of Belgium after their forename and, insofar as they bear these, of their surname and their dynastic title and before the other titles to which they have a legal right by their descent. Their forename is preceded by the predicate His or Her Royal Highness.
It seems clear that her legal parents were Jacques Boël (after all, she carried his name) and Sybille de Selys Longchamps, who were married to each other until 1978. Simply taking a DNA test doesn't void your legal parents. She can "insist" on any name she likes, but there is no evidence that Jacques Boël isn't her legal father (who may be a different person as the biological father, typically for adopted children, or people born out of wedlock). Noble and royal status is inherited only by people born in marriage, and while she may "insist" on calling herself "de Saxe-Cobourg" as a surname, that doesn't in itself make her a princess (which is not a name, but a title; after all her father never even carried the title) or give her the style of royal highness, or a place in the line of succession or anything else that comes with it. Any court decisions regarding her (biological) parenthood are separate from the question of constitutional titles and a place in the line of succession that are, in every country, granted by the sovereign or given as a result of being born in marriage (sometimes even dynastically) to a royal father.
Not to mention her children, who have a father of their own, who isn't royal. Their mother simply taking a DNA test doesn't render their own father irrelevant. Everyone who is a biological (illegitimate) descendant (over several generations) of someone who happens to be royal isn't automatically a prince. Not even all legitimate descendants of royalty carry princely titles (e.g. Princess Anne's children). It seems to me that the insistence that she, her husband and children suddenly carry all these titles, despite not even being in the line of succession, is based on her own self-promotion and dubious claims.
More importantly, she and her family don't seem to be included on the official website of the royal family, as princes or princesses, and as long as that is the case there is simply not sufficient evidence to suddenly give them these titles here, especially when they wouldn't automatically have these titles under the laws of any monarchies on the planet. [3]. -- Tataral ( talk) 03:16, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
The name as currently used by this article, Princess Delphine of Belgium, is incorrect. While the current Royal family uses the last name "of Belgium" following a change by King Albert I after WWI, this was solely an informal change and was never changed legally. Hence the Brussels Court of Appeals has based itself on the Constitution, in which article 85 states that the last name of King Leopold I, first King of the Belgians, is "of Saxony-Coburg". This also follows a recent change in policy by the current King Philippe, who has decided that only children of the current monarch and heir may bear the last name "of Belgium" while all other family members will bear the last name "of Saxony-Coburg". Hence her name is not, as this article suggest, "Princess Delphine of Belgium", but rather "Delphine of Saxony-Coburg" with the title "Princess of Belgium". Here is a Dutch source on the matter by a professor in law of the university of Leuven. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1811:DC38:CE00:C507:DE4E:45DE:BAE9 ( talk) 13:58, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Her children are now notable ? Her children are also members of the reigning royal family and officially received the royal titles. So should we create articles for them? [12], [13], “ As a result, the down-to-earth teenager immediately swapped her old name of Josephine Boel for the new title of Princess Josephine de Saxe-Cobourg Gotha — as did her little brother Prince Oscar, 12.”. All children of the senior members of royal family have their standlone WP articles. Princess Josephine de Saxe-Cobourg Gotha is in 17. VocalIndia ( talk) 18:38, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
I've just taken off "et Gotha" as part of her surname. I know that the name is often given as Saxony-Cobourg and Gotha, which was the traditional name of the family before the first king acceded to the Belgian throne, but the Belgian constitution keeps it to "Saxony-Cobourg" and this is also the version I've seen Delphine's lawyer use when commenting the court proceedings. So, unless there is some official source for the version with "Gotha", I think we need to keep the one we find in the constitution. Sigur ( talk) 07:13, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
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I don't believe that Ms. Boel would have had the option of "taking her mother's title," since titles in Europe usually descend through the male line only, unless the mother is a reigning monarch or was granted some special concession. That sentence may need to be rewritten or removed. 68.72.97.109 ( talk) 19:35, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
"Tu n'es pas ma fille" doesn't translate to "You are not my daughter anymore". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.162.44.1 ( talk) 16:42, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
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@ Helsing90: argues that Boel isn't Albert II's daughter. What say you all? GoodDay ( talk) 21:48, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
@ Helsing90:, Jacques Boël is not the legal father of Delphine, that was decided at the highest court (Cassatie) last year, as reported in many, many sources (in English, French and Dutch). Fram ( talk) 07:45, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Aaand she's just been granted the title of 'Princess of Belgium', as have her children (yes, yes, I know). JWULTRABLIZZARD ( talk) 18:14, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
She won the royal name, yes - but the royal style and title?
I see that most, if not all, sources claiming that she now is a Princess goes back to the statement her lawyer made. Not the actual case ruling in itself. It should be noted that representatives of King Albert state that the matter of Princely titles is not for the court to decide, but the head of the Royal House of Belgium by Royal Decree. https://www.insider.com/former-king-albert-belgium-daughter-delphine-royal-title-2020-9 Further substantion is needed. Jonar242 ( talk) 08:53, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Does anybody have a decent source for the purported marriage of Delphine? The first source cited says "husband", but without further precision. The second source cited only says they are living together since 2003 - just as any other source I've seen until now. So, there is a serious doubt about that marriage. Sigur ( talk) 17:57, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
At least in 2009, she was not married to O'Hare. See here. Without confirmation from either of the two, we shouldn't describe them as married. Fram ( talk) 08:42, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
And apparently in 2020 they aren't married either: [2]: "Delphine noemt Jim haar echtgenoot, maar ze zijn niet getrouwd." Fram ( talk) 08:42, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
Delphine Boël may be the daughter of King Albert, but she was born in 1968, nine years after her father was married to Queen Paola, whom he has been married to ever since. There is no evidence that he was ever married to Delphine's mother. There is no evidence at all that she isn't illegitimate, like the Duke of Monmouth tried to claim to assert 'his' rights. Delphine doesn't seem to have made a case for the idea that her parents were secretly married at all, so how in the world could she be a princess? Let alone her children - after all, their father was not related to royalty at all. Unless by naming Delphine "Princess Delphine of Belgium" they are proclaiming her sovereign princess of a new nation that is coincidentally also named Belgium, which is the only way I can see for her children to be royalty - and it's hardly more absurd than what they're currently doing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.114.0.125 ( talk) 16:56, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
In public and private acts concerning them, the Princes and Princesses, children and grandchildren, direct descendants of His Majesty King Albert II bear the title of Prince or Princess of Belgium after their forename and, insofar as they bear these, of their surname and their dynastic title and before the other titles to which they have a legal right by their descent. Their forename is preceded by the predicate His or Her Royal Highness.
It seems clear that her legal parents were Jacques Boël (after all, she carried his name) and Sybille de Selys Longchamps, who were married to each other until 1978. Simply taking a DNA test doesn't void your legal parents. She can "insist" on any name she likes, but there is no evidence that Jacques Boël isn't her legal father (who may be a different person as the biological father, typically for adopted children, or people born out of wedlock). Noble and royal status is inherited only by people born in marriage, and while she may "insist" on calling herself "de Saxe-Cobourg" as a surname, that doesn't in itself make her a princess (which is not a name, but a title; after all her father never even carried the title) or give her the style of royal highness, or a place in the line of succession or anything else that comes with it. Any court decisions regarding her (biological) parenthood are separate from the question of constitutional titles and a place in the line of succession that are, in every country, granted by the sovereign or given as a result of being born in marriage (sometimes even dynastically) to a royal father.
Not to mention her children, who have a father of their own, who isn't royal. Their mother simply taking a DNA test doesn't render their own father irrelevant. Everyone who is a biological (illegitimate) descendant (over several generations) of someone who happens to be royal isn't automatically a prince. Not even all legitimate descendants of royalty carry princely titles (e.g. Princess Anne's children). It seems to me that the insistence that she, her husband and children suddenly carry all these titles, despite not even being in the line of succession, is based on her own self-promotion and dubious claims.
More importantly, she and her family don't seem to be included on the official website of the royal family, as princes or princesses, and as long as that is the case there is simply not sufficient evidence to suddenly give them these titles here, especially when they wouldn't automatically have these titles under the laws of any monarchies on the planet. [3]. -- Tataral ( talk) 03:16, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
The name as currently used by this article, Princess Delphine of Belgium, is incorrect. While the current Royal family uses the last name "of Belgium" following a change by King Albert I after WWI, this was solely an informal change and was never changed legally. Hence the Brussels Court of Appeals has based itself on the Constitution, in which article 85 states that the last name of King Leopold I, first King of the Belgians, is "of Saxony-Coburg". This also follows a recent change in policy by the current King Philippe, who has decided that only children of the current monarch and heir may bear the last name "of Belgium" while all other family members will bear the last name "of Saxony-Coburg". Hence her name is not, as this article suggest, "Princess Delphine of Belgium", but rather "Delphine of Saxony-Coburg" with the title "Princess of Belgium". Here is a Dutch source on the matter by a professor in law of the university of Leuven. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1811:DC38:CE00:C507:DE4E:45DE:BAE9 ( talk) 13:58, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Her children are now notable ? Her children are also members of the reigning royal family and officially received the royal titles. So should we create articles for them? [12], [13], “ As a result, the down-to-earth teenager immediately swapped her old name of Josephine Boel for the new title of Princess Josephine de Saxe-Cobourg Gotha — as did her little brother Prince Oscar, 12.”. All children of the senior members of royal family have their standlone WP articles. Princess Josephine de Saxe-Cobourg Gotha is in 17. VocalIndia ( talk) 18:38, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
I've just taken off "et Gotha" as part of her surname. I know that the name is often given as Saxony-Cobourg and Gotha, which was the traditional name of the family before the first king acceded to the Belgian throne, but the Belgian constitution keeps it to "Saxony-Cobourg" and this is also the version I've seen Delphine's lawyer use when commenting the court proceedings. So, unless there is some official source for the version with "Gotha", I think we need to keep the one we find in the constitution. Sigur ( talk) 07:13, 20 January 2021 (UTC)