![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I removed 'and criticisms' from the title of the 'Ratings, awards, commendations, and criticism' section because that section contained only praise and no criticism. I think that a 'Criticism' section should be added to this article, independent of the 'Ratings, awards and commendations' section. I am unsure of how to do this myself (perhaps I do not have the authority?). Articles like this one from the New York Times could be added to my proposed 'Criticism' section: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/16/nyregion/at-latest-job-fair-a-warning-not-to-take-some-jobs.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pirate fishrick ( talk • contribs) 18:36, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
PLEASE leave the criticism section alone. Stop deleting it. Censoring criticism does not change the fact that this company is highly controversial. I don't see how censoring the 'other side' is fair representation of this company. You can't have a huge section of "awards" and not allow for criticism.
Please leave the criticism section there. If you have a problem with the criticism, please change the text but leave the section in place. There is genuine criticism of Primerica, just as there is genuine criticism about Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc. If you remove the criticism section completely, then the article is violating NPOV. -- OMouse ( talk) 03:34, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Primerica has a dubious history and in the interests of equitable coverage should be included in any article on it. As part of that heritage, it should be noted in this article that Primerica was prohibited from practicing in the State of New York for a period of time. Additionally, they may have been prohibited from practicing in other U.S. states as well. Stevenmitchell 23:05, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I would like to state that, being a former agent myself, I don't believe for one second that the $199 fee goes to "government courses". Why? First of all, if it is a state-sponsored (or provincially-sponsored) program it wouldn't be "$199" everywhere- it would vary. Second of all, if it's a government program, then you should be able to get your license following the completion of the program. The fact that you don't indicates that it most likely isn't government-sponsored.
I would also like to state that the previous revision's assertation that the opinions of former agents can be "dismissed" to be rather disgusting. We are not merely a class of fifty or so people- thousands of failed recruits come every year, as the company loses between 90-98% of its workforce annually. In a subjective article, these complaints- which are substantial- should not be brushed aside but rather brought to the light, since neutrality demands that nothing hides its bad side. I am not saying that Primerica cannot provide a legitimate business- some people have managed to succeed, and I congratulate them. However, for a Wikipedia article to denounce the accusations of many as unimportant stands in the way of everything that Wikipedia is about, since neutrality isn't about hiding anything.- RomeW
IN REALITY, NO ONE IS BEING TRYICKED INTO ANYTHING THEY DONT WANT. IF PRIMERICA DIDN'T WORK OUT FOR YOU IS BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T PUT THE WORK BEHIND. YOU ALSO THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS A GET RICH QUICK TYPE OF THING. AND IT ISN'T. TRUE, OVER 90% OF THE PPL THAT JOIN END UP QUITTING. MORE THAN HALF OF THESE PPL QUIT BEFORE THEY EVEN BECOME LISENCED! HOW CAN YOU EXPECT TO MAKE MONEY IN THIS COMPANY WITH OUT YOUR LISENCE?? PRIMERICA IS NOT FOR EVERYONE, BUT THEY SURE DO GIVE EVERYONE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SOMETHING OF THEMSELVES. DONT LEAVE PRIMERICA BITTER BECAUSE IT DIDN'T WORK FOR YOU, ITS OBVIOUS THAT YOU DIDN'T PUT THE WORK BEHIND IT.
MONZON —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.60.116.178 ( talk • contribs). 22:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
This material is from the article List of purported cults, which we are paring down to a pure list. Editors here can best evaluate its statements and decide how to integrate it into this article. Thanks, - Willmcw 10:58, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)
17:22, 13 November 2005 (UTC)17:22, 13 November 2005 (UTC)~
In general,Primerica suffers from some of the same issues as other MLM businesses. I should clarify that MLM does not mean scam, it's simply an entirely voluntary hierarchy system based on amount of members recruited/business done (either through volume or dollar amount). Most of these issues have to do with the impossible difficulty of controlling such a large representative base. One greedy rep, and now people get screwed. The top of the hierarchy's message to reps is always the same: be honest and help people. Some members take the traditional approach to high pressure insurance sales, which turns away potential reps and clients. Every MLM suffers from some organizations that participate in unethical practices. However, the quality of services offered through Primerica are undoubtedly high and definitely in demand for any willing and able rep to build a lasting and profitable business with.
The products/services offered and compensation provided to reps are what differenciates PFS from other MLM systems. There is a real demand for what Primerica offers to middle class families, not overpriced groceries. The system also does not suffer from hundreds of dollars in investment per month to be successful. The licenses gained are legitimate, the need is legitimate, and the vast majority of reps follow the rules and guidelines set by the company.
On the subject of the one time $199 fee, this fee was talked about towards the end of the Overview, and explained thoroughly by the RVP. The fee is broken down into two parts:
1.)$40, non refundable. Goes towards federal and state background checks. No Felons, please.
2.)$159, refundable. This is for the prelicensing courses provided by the company. The cost of the course is over $500. The $159 is the amount that the rep puts towards that amount. The company pays the rest. If a rep does not get licensed in 120 days, the fee will be refunded and the rep will no longer exist with the company.
In ending, I have not heard any "Amens" or mention of "God" in correlation with the company or any of its members. Generalizing the business as a cult is simply irresponsible and ignorant. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.174.22.26 ( talk • contribs).
I was at a meeting today and there were several employees placed as foils at the meeting who would shout out agreement whenever the recruiter said something, and supply facts when he called for them. It felt very much like a cult to me. Especially with all of the videos of Ferraris and big houses and promises of a better life. Markleci
Were the things that the 'recruiter' said true? If so, I don't see why one WOULDN'T agree. How does 'promise' of a better life and REAL rich people driving their ACTUAL CARS=cult? If anything you make it sound like one of many 'get rich quick' plans ala infomercials. I'm honestly dumbfounded by your response to it. i'm guessing they played the video from the Success from Home magazine(July 2005 the entire issue was dedicated to Primerica). John Adison speaks of how hard it is to succeed with Primerica in the video. No promises are made in an opportunity meeting. Furthermore 'placed' and 'foils' implied they were secretive about the fact that they were reps(ask them before them meeting, they'll tell you.). It's common, in fact almost REQUIRED for reps to attend the meetings. Especially if they have guests. Was the person who invited you there? of course they were, or at the least their upline. 'Flis' itself implies that there were people speaking agaist the things they said. Again, I find your response odd and most likely that of osmeone LOOKING for a reason to dislike the company. This IS verifiable information. I'm at almost every meeting our office has. I speak from experience. I can quote people here if you like. I'd like more specific information so I can make a more detailed response to what you're saying. -- Thegzeus 16:11, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Even if what the recruiter was saying was true, having employees pretend to be members of the audience is dishonest and highly questionable. If the "REAL rich people driving their ACTUAL CARS" were highly atypical results then that is not an honest promise, and does have some of the earmarkings of a cult. The meetings themselves do sound like get rich quick plans, even if the people running them are careful to mention "all of the hard work" as an aside. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.218.86.204 ( talk • contribs) 15:46, 31 August 2006
I can't believe that so many people are arguing about the $199. i mean come on people the average smoker spends $150-$200 a month to KILL THEIRSELVES. this is only a one time deal, and yes, most of it does get refunded. but you have the ability to make that and much more before you are even done with the state mandated tests that qualify you for the reimbursement. and no it's actually quite the opposite of a get rich quick scheme. it is very hard grueling work (not physically) but you have to work on yourself. i have been involved with the company for about a year now and i can honestly say that it has changed my life. my marriage is better, i feel more self confident, and most of all i see all the negativty in the world and want to make a difference. and whoever wrote about primerica having the same troubles as any other MLM company is completely false. how do you think real estate works? if you recruit and train someone you make a percentage of their efforts. am i wrong? primerica is the only company in the world that actually gives anyone a chance (besides convicted felons and anyone with out a GED or equivalent) what other company completely disregards past mistakes. or looks at the school you didn't go to, or the race you're not, the sex you're not, how pretty you're not, and gives you a chance. i think smart people in general are turned off by our company for the sole reason that they have to start from the bottom. i mean why not let mommy and daddy send you to an ivy leauge school,or go into hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to go to an ivy leauge and not expect to have an easy high paying job at the end. these people don't even enter the real world until they are in their mid to late 20's. but they're who we're supposed to listen to? this business isn't for the fainthearted. if you had a chance to work hard and build a business in 5 to 10 years that would take care of your family for generations would you even worry about the $199 or anything else for that matter. i think people get too caught up in this "my company will take care of me" idealism and lack to take complete control of their lives. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.50.102.130 ( talk • contribs).
I was invited to a few Primerica meetings in 2004. One was in a hotel conference room and it was very nice and professional. Another one was in a local Primerica office and it seemed very cult-like. It kind of turned me off when the representatives were degrading other "J-O-Bs" (as they liked to call them). As with most companies it depends on the representative you are dealing with. I was seriously considering it, it just knew it was not a career I would enjoy. Draconis77 23:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
I hear a lot about the Cult-Like behaviors and i'd just like to say that all of these offices are INDEPENDANT so every office acts INDEPENDANTLY i do believe it when it was said earlier that people were shouting "amen" and other cult-like stuff, but you have to remember that every office is INDEPENDANT. I belong to an office and NYC and we do not say "amen" and such. Also, we do not have large scale advertising. All advertising is local to i'd say about 10 square city blocks, which would be hardly advertising. It's just as much advertising as a small buisness would do. PR? We have no PR.As for cult-like behavior and bad business practices at SOME offices: A lot of people get greedy when they see that they are making money and want more, so a few office heads might take part in illegal or immoral buisness practices which i encourage any and all to be reported to the proper officials and the main office in Atlanta, Georga! Also if you are associated with the company and do not get your questions answered by anyone in the office i suggest you try another office because that office is not for you, thay are suposed to help you with any and all questions and problems you have about the company, and if they don't you should try contacting whats called an OSJ or SNSD!
I don't know about cult per se, but I can attest to that their recruiting methods are highly irregular, even questionable. When I was contacted by a recruiter, I was told where and when to go -- that's it. I spoke briefly with a guy claiming to be a VP, but it opened up with a triangle scheme-style seminar. It had all the signs -- revisionist history, suggestion, and a salesperson-esque demeantor wherein statements are implied to be accepted as fact. Dissent was obviously discouraged. How can I tell? Because I was the only one who wasn't drinking the Kool-Aid. Mind you, I wasn't being disruptive. I quietly and attentively listened, but I didn't nod and murmur in approval to the gospel. Within ten minutes I was personally pointed out and removed from the room. I had not uttered a single word. That said, alarm bells and red flags were going off like crazy in my head (it was deja vu to my experience with Equinox International), and my skepticism probably showed on my face -- I'm not a good bluffer. Is this anecdotal evidence? Yes, but I believe I'm giving an unbiased account that warrants further investigation, not blanket dismissal. They did not vet their recruits, they specifically targeted the uninformed, and then told them how to think. In a seminar format, recruits are not given the opportunity to ask questions. My last comment is that I have also worked for non-scam companies which employed similar tactics to keep their employees under control. I have no evidence to claim Primerica is an MLM scam, but it does employ aggressive corporate propaganda and deceptive recruiting practices. One is not necessarily the other; the complaints are substantial, the accusations not necessarily so. 66.213.29.2 17:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)Dragonchild
RomeW: You are right in that each state has different fees for getting licensed, and I'm writing this to clarify why the company consistently asks only $199. What the company does is it subsidises (SP) the cost of training and licensing but makes it easier for it's agents by asking for the same fee in submitting an independant business application. The license, facility, materials and instructor generaly costs more than $199.00, so the company makes up the gap.
As an example it may cost (and these are examples don't take them as the actual expense) $450 for the company to license a person in California, $250 in Kansas and $220 in Maine, but the company only asks $199.
The reason they do that is to make it easier on their field reps. I live in Kansas City, 2 miles from the state line. I spend time in both states. If I did have someone interested in a career how confusing would it be to say licening is $199 in KS but $250 in MO? What if we lived in a tri-state area?
The office I'm licensed to work out of is one of the best in the company at licensing people which is 30%. In fact the company has asked the owner of our office to develop material on how we have such a hight recruit to code ration, because some offices have a recruit to code ration less than 1%.
As for people quitting, the company ratio's are about the same as those of most colleges. Simply look at how many students start as freshmen and compare that to how many graduate with a bachelors, then masters, then PHD's. Any individuals success is based on their effort, and people who don't work or can't be disciplined quit. Assuming everyone would be successful is as realistic as expecting everyone who goes to college to come out with a PHD. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CaptainNeda ( talk • contribs). (It seems that this paragraph is implying that one is only successful if he or she recieves a Ph.D, I recommend rewording this. Many students are quite successful with only an associates or batchelor's degree. Further, regarding the majority of undergraduate institutions: Most schools that only graduated one to thirty percent of its enrolled students would probably be investigated and would then most likely have its accreditation suspended or even revoked) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.176.65.165 ( talk • contribs).
Criticism Section Reads like two people having an argument. This is not an encyclopedia article by any stretch of the imagination. "See if another bank can do that - most cannot" WTF? I'm removing the elements most obviously contributed by the Primerica apologist. 216.99.240.244 01:53, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Actually, it's SAYING that sucess(IE, successfully completing the schooling needed to recieve a PHD) takes alot of time and hard work. I got that the first time I read it, and double checked the language used to make sure.
--
Thegzeus
16:15, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
My question is, "Why would Citi be related to a MLM?" And a tougher question is, "Why could the SEC and NASD allow anything questionable to sell securities?" Both answers led me to believe that there must a very high level of legitimacy with this business structure.
-- Futurethinker 23:13, 30 April 2007 (UTC) ==
No, a "discussion" is a two-way conversation. My relationship with the company gives me more credibility to speak on the subject. This site is supposed to be based on factual information, not uninfornmed opinions. If knowing more about the subject via personal interaction is a "conflict of interest," then we would all be forced to hold our tongues. -- Futurethinker 22:37, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
It is redundant to link all 8 corporate sites in this article. Each of those links are linked directly from the primary corporate site. Please do not add them in again Anazgnos 20:14, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
According to the policies and guidelines and a NPOV guidelines, inclusion of the Official corporate sites is permissable. Linking all corporate sites is not redundant. They do not redirect to the primary site, and their focus is for products and/or services Primerica offers. Please do not delete them again. A1794 08:23, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Look guys how can the company pay for every single insurance license? I don't know about other states, but in Texas the license I got was a Group 1 General Lines Insurance License. It allows me to do life insurance along with dental and health. If the company paid ALL of the cost, what would stop anyone who wanted this license to do any of these things to just use the company for a few weeks to get licensed and then take it somewhere else??
(relocated from main article:" "To use a word like "scheme" implies wrong doing of some sort. The disclaimer sized sentence at the end of the paragraph is not enough to contradict the inflamatory language in the beginning of the paragraph.
Also, whose criticisms of Primerica are these? Non biased? Please rethink. Thank You."
I don't feel "scheme" was overly negative or inflammatory in context but I have nevertheless removed it.
I will work on threading references to existing articles containing the criticisms listed. I believe this is a fair and impartial summary or the criticisms that are commonly levied against the company. If you wish to add a balancing perspective at this point the article could certainly use some more information on what services or products Primerica alleges to offer, which I do not claim to be knowledgeable enough to provide. The services should be described impartially and not hawked or cloaked in rhetoric, as appeared in previous revisions. Anazgnos 21:52, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Hey look, an add for primerica on wikipedia. Great! (primerica intentionally left lowercase) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fitchhollister ( talk • contribs) 04:02, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I think we're having problems again...this section used to be a lot bigger. Now, it's been reduced and "spun" even though many criticisms still exist.-
RomeW (
talk)
09:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
These criticisms exist, and are being reported on fairly and neutrally. This portion of the article should not be treated as an opportunity to defend the company or discredit criticisms as they are stated. If needed, a seperate paragraph or section regarding responses to criticisms may be entered. 70.183.63.108 21:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
GnarlyOcelot: Anazgnos, first, my sincerest apologies; i did not realize there was a section where the article could be discussed. I think we've both been getting a little frustrated but now that we can actually exchange viewpoints hopefully this will be more fruitful. Im not entirely familiar with how this works. 1. How do i send you messages directly and 2. is this how we should continue communicating? Through this wikipedia box? Let's make this a good fair article. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gnarlyocelot ( talk • contribs).
I've gone ahead and pasted in the "compromise" paragraph. I took the "addressing" section out as well since it was adressing things that are no longer present in the main paragraph, but if you want to bring some of that back, feel free. Anazgnos 16:23, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
User "Lyean" - You have reverted this article to a previous revision two times. If you continue to do so, you may be blocked according to Wikipedia policy. The previous article is not acceptable according to Wikipedia NPOV standards. Thank you. Anazgnos 20:49, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Is this the reason it now has many links to scam sites and is SIGNIFICANTLY shorter than it was a week ago?
One week earlier it was accurate, detailed, and informative.
now it's short, inconclusive, and has as much info as some small amature band entry...
I'm sorry if that comes off crass, because it is well WRITTEN, but waht's written doesn't inform very well.--
Thegzeus
20:34, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Excuse my lack of skill in the method of posting here. I'm not used to it yet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Primerica_Financial_Services&direction=prev&oldid=54732891
This version is far superior to what we have left. Additions to would better than removals from it, I believe.
The cult comments are...ludicrously one-sided, so those are out.
A fair discussion of both sides of NEW criticisms is in order. Once a good balanced set with both sides represented equally is available, we can then move forward. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thegzeus ( talk • contribs).
First of all, there is no mention in the article that this is an MLM business. Primerica is to insurance what Amway is to merchandising. It is very disingenuous to skirt this fact. Also, the Products Offered section is nothing more than an advertisement. I am going to refer this to the moderators for review. If we wanted a whitewashed, sanitized advertisement for the company, a link to their web site would suffice instead of this poor excuse for an encyclopedia article. It is nothing more than propaganda. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.45.112.212 ( talk • contribs).
Please sign this entry as well. Thegzeus 23:44, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
PS. See: "Primerica at MLM Survivor" Tadaaa. Thegzeus 23:44, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
This article is so obviously an advertisement, non NPOV and not to Wikipedia standards that I can't believe that it is still here! This makes us (Wiki editors and contributors) ALL look bad! ( Franklooper ( talk) 00:06, 15 October 2008 (UTC))
The article currently states: "The industry likes to focus the consumer's attention almost entirely on the interest rate and the monthly payment, whereas Primerica representatives are trained to focus on the total cost of the loan (total interest expressed as a dollar amount) and the client's "debt freedom date"."
This is pretty word-for-word from Primerica. I don't think I'd see this in a Britannica article, were they to address Primerica. "The industry likes to..." You mean the largest multinational banking conglomerate in the world (Citigroup) isn't "The Industry"? The whole $MART loan section needs to be re-done. It needs to describe what it is, exactly, how is it different from traditional refinancing, and perhaps a counter to its draw-backs. I'm tempted to do this myself, but maybe post it here in the discussion page and see what senior Wikipedians think. The $MART loan can be a good product, but this depends very much on the customer's current loans and financial situation. It is certainly not a magical panacea.
So, as a summary of what I mean: instead of using Primerica wording for explanation of products, such as "The Industry", perhaps Wikipedia should use more correct and more neutral terms such as "traditional financial institutions," etc. Primerica's products do differ in many important ways from traditional banking and yes, this article should say so and explain it. But having been through many Primerica meetings, this article sounds a lot like them, not like an encyclopedia.
I'll think about the $MART loan section, post it here later, and see what people think. Perhaps even an example would be great for showing how it can work differently from traditional financing, with a ficitional customer etc. Anyone good at graphs? Gaviidae 10:16, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
You are all very intelligent and have impressed me with your strong vocabulary and ademant concern for this organization, perhaps finding something better to do with your time... and mine. - B-Rizzle (Time-Waster) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.226.66.208 ( talk • contribs).
---The main page needs some serious cleaning up and editing. The addition of the SEC suit against Primerica because a few moron RVP's concocted a ponzi scheme needs to be clarified and explained as such. The time that this event occured was soon after Art Williams sold the company. During this time, the company lost roughly 150,000 representatives, and a very few that stayed on took advantage of the company's weakened position to orchestrate a ponzi scheme that ended in their being terminated from the company.
Compliance issues are EXTREMELY important, and are a subject of every leadership school as well as a good sized portion of POL, the training intranet accessible to PFS reps. Part of why some people find it so important to smear PFS as much as possible is because it does things so differently, and because it keeps its standards so high, whenever there's a failure its detractors point, yell, and scream about it. The reality is that 99% of the time, PFS reps do the right thing, and that the 1% where someone screws up, the company works harder on to boost its already industry leading compliance. No company's perfect, but there are few out there that work as hard as PFS's home team does to support the field force and keep compliance higher than the rest of the industry.
I don't mean to embarrass any fellow internet users that detract heavily to PFS, you certainly have the right, but our company crushed the life insurance industry in the 1980's, when they tried to regulate and sue us into oblivion. They lost, we won because we did the right thing for people. Instead of criticising the proven system of success that exists in our company, it's ok to recognize that what we do for families is unparalleled in the industry today. Simply put, there is no better company with higher standards working hard to correct the harm done to average people by the rest of the industry. Have you sat at kitchen tables with a family who's mortgage broker put them in an arm with negative amortization, which will mean they will lose their house in a few years? How about seeing a family paying $400 a month for 4 or 5 VUL's? It's a mess out there in middle America, and with the amount of debt people carry and with foreclosures spiking, the proof's in the pudding.
So, instead of crying about how we have a hybrid system (best parts of the broker/agent, franchise, and MLM systems) and that once in a great while, some moron rep will do the wrong thing and get terminated ASAP, it's ok to write a non-biased article about how the company is really out there to help families. I used the $MART loan to change a family member's life when they'd been rejected for a refinance TWICE because of credit issues. We help people. Don't ever forget that. Brandon----------- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.128.224.163 ( talk • contribs).
We'd prefer a truly objective article. It's not necessary to have a pro-PFS article, just one that states the facts, the REAL facts. The neutrality of the article is debated because of the conflicting statements paragraph to paragraph. Just because a section is called "Criticisms" doesn't mean it needs to throw up all over the rest of the article. It should be noted that the system Primerica utilizes is a Hybrid of the "Broker/Agent" system, the "Franchise" system, and the "MLM" system, and that overrides are a part of EVERY sales organization. The money "flows up" like every other business ever created. It's called p-r-o-f-i-t. Please keep in mind that in a business like Primerica's, most people simply do not work. Statistically speaking, most people never attain much of anything in life, and that's simply a matter of personal drive to succeed as well as the ability to dream. Most people utilize the traditional "corporate job" path, which is widely trodden and therefore not likely to be profitable long term. When they come to Primerica, they have been inundated with the "wrong stuff" for building a business. If they can undo the philosophies that they have been conditioned with that makes them broke every day, they have a chance of pursuing success with PFS. If not, they should stick with what they have and work on improving it by cutting expenses and saving money. We show them both ways and let them decide. The company was founded to give ordinary people the opportunity to do extraordinary things part time.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.128.224.163 ( talk • contribs).
____________________________________________________________
Anazgnos, these entries seem to conflict (in language only, not in attitude). Can you clearly explain what you are bringing to the table in this debate? You appear to be one sided and should perhaps bow out of further editing of this subject.
"I see no mention of Primerica's thirst for infant blood. I'd like to include something along the lines of "Primerica requires fresh human infant blood to grow. Primerica must be stopped. If allowed to continue, Primerica will consume all new infants born in the world." Anazgnos 22:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC" and
"::Can you guys (the primerican drones)...seriously...please...just try to read some of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines before doing anything else on this? Try to get some handle on what NPOV means and what is allowable, and what isn't? Anazgnos 17:26, 31 July 2006 (UTC)"-- Futurethinker 21:24, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
This is ridiculous...I am a mom of two who loves staying at home and enjoying life. I have recently been to a Primerica meeting, and I have come to conclude that this is a do-able venture. Of course, there are downfalls to EVERYTHING! It is true that 90% fail to thrive in this business, but you have to put in time and effort to reep the rewards. I knew from the beginning what the meeting was about. I knew that the front row of gents and ladies were Primerica people. If you did not know, you need to consider a little more schooling on reality. What is wrong with supporting and being passionate about your business? Every business has a pyramid of employees. Starting with the CEO/Owner and trickles down to the common bottom of the line worker. Who can argue with that? I will come back and update when my husband and I have reached $100,000 mark. I will be happy to comment on any wrong-doings or foils if I ever come across such a thing. I have researched and found evidence of success with Primerica. They have been given awards and praises from several companies, such as DALBAR and Standard and Poor. Is this something to be overlooked? I think NOT! I am excited about my opportunity, and all of the negativity coming from these websites have not swayed my opinion thus far. I believe everything has a balance of positive and negatives. This has been proven through science. YIN-YANG...If you live your life being negative towards everything, you will never have peace with oneself. 74.193.187.32 ( talk) 16:49, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
'What is wrong with supporting and being passionate about your business?' Nothing at all, but the above reads like a commercial for Primerica. If that's what everybody called unbiased then I don't even know what to believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.124.14.13 ( talk) 19:52, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
An Associate with Primerica can be viewed as participating in a self-improvement program with a heck of a compensation package in the back end. Some books that associates are encouraged to read are: "Think Like a Winner" by Dr. Walter Staples, "Success is not an Accident" by Tommy Newberry, "Beyond Positive Thinking" by Robert Anthony, "The Magic of Thinking Big" by David Schwartz, "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill, and "Success is a Journey" by John Maxwell. One other book that is imperative to the structure of Primerica is "The Cash Flow Quadrant" by Robert Kiyosaki.
The most recent book that was brought to the attention of the Associates within Primerica was, "How to Raise Your Own Salary" by Napoleon Hill. This particular book is where Napoleon Hill interviews Andrew Carnegie in the early 1950's about the famous success formula. This book was out of print for years and was recently brought back into print. In this book, Andrew Carnegie explains the four pillars of Americanism and in fact explains what Americanism is.
In addition, a more recent book was written by the founder of A.L. Williams, now known as Primerica. The book called "Coach" by Art Williams, describes in detail the history of Primerica and what the company is based on.
A challenge is set forth to all who have read this message, a dare to take the time and read these books written by the most influential writers, speakers and business men of all times. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mzpotter ( talk • contribs).
Primerica Financial Services has analyzed and revised the Primerica Wikipedia article. We believe Primerica has complied with the policies and guidelines Wikipedia has set forth. Please review for NPOV and consideration in removing the NPOV dispute box tagged to this article. Primerica Financial Services is committed to providing the most accurate and unbiased information to make the Primerica Financial Services article better. -- A1794 14:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm confused. How can User A1794 be unbiased if he's writing about Primerica, on behalf of Primerica? That seems to be the very essence of bias. -- Minaker —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Minaker ( talk • contribs).
As far as I am concerned, User A1794 is an imposter, and is illegally claiming to be a[n authorized] representative of Primerica. The user should point to something on Primerica's official website which authorizes him/her to make such a claim (ironic that he/she removes criticisms of Primerica on the basis of not being cited, while not citing his or her authority to represent Primerica). Assuming, however, that User A1794 is , it is not up to the company to declare the article NPOV, particularly to effectively take one side in an "edit war". -- RealGrouchy 22:04, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Just as an example, I have isolated the following blatantly POV statements from the article. At a bare minimum, they would need a citation, but many really couldn't conceivably be allowable by any stretch.
In each case, you could either a) provide a credible, reputable published source that states any of the above, and quote them directly, b) provide an official Primerca source and preface the statement by saying "Primerica alleges that..." or something similar, or c) remove any such statements entirely.
There are still numerous other POV or unsupported statements in the article. This is just to get you started in the right direction. Anazgnos 04:57, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
In addition to apparently deadlocked NPOV disputes, this article may not meet Notability Criteria for Companies and Corporations, and has been nominated for deletion. Anazgnos 22:05, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I've trimmed down the article to its essentials - what the company is, its history and some links. The section on its products is spam and the section on criticism is unsourced, so it has to go. If you can source it, feel free to replace the information. Aplomado talk 23:03, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Is that, historically, as long as Primerica-people themselves are hovering over this article, every time any criticism gets introduced, there is an effort to neutralize it with the kind of POV language and spam that the article used to be full of, where every criticism is met with a counter-claim and pro-Primerica jargon is inserted to offset, and an edit war generally ensues.
I wouldn't suggest that no criticism should ever be added, but interested parties should at least consider the possibility that the incredibly dry, POV, spam, and crit-free version of the article that has more or less stably persisted for the past few months may be the lesser of two evils. Anazgnos 21:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
The history section goes far beyond what is included in the provided sources. Is there any way that we can verify the material? - Will Beback 22:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
I see an editor has added some sources, which is great, but I'm not sure how we can verify them. Where can one find the "Primerica Financial Services Press Release, July 1, 1992" or the "1983 A.L. Williams Corporation Annual Report"? - Will Beback · † · 21:18, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
This information can be found online - on the Citigroup website. 67.33.128.90 04:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
An editor added this material:
These appear to be straightforward assertions. Do we have any sources about how Primerica awards commissions? - Will Beback · † · 00:29, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Those were my personal experiences with the company when I went there for a "job interview" about 18 months ago. We were presented with a probable six figure income, that was then broken down into numbers that relied heavily on second generation commissions. And that leads to the usual MLM business model that Primerica is alleged to participate in. Now I know that WP has a rule about original research but am not enough of a wikinerd to know if this applies here or not, I just wanted to add something to the section, because how it appears now is pretty silly. A single line of criticism vs. 20 lines of history isn't doing justice to reality. 80.218.90.50 10:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
You are not required to have a team of people beneath you to earn commissions. You would also not expect to run a business without help either. The only employees in the company are located at the home office, all of the agents are independent contractors. The income levels typically mentioned can be duplicated by simply doing "the numbers" like any other business. Commissions are awarded (and taken back) based on sales of products only. Like in the rest of the financial services industry, a commissioned agent receives a portion of the money being sent up. However, in cases such as life insurance, if the insurance is denied or canceled within the first year, the commission is taken from the agent since it was merely an advance, or interest free loan, from the company.
The Commission structure it self will have to be requested from an agent. There are currently no online, publicly available, sites displaying the full table. Rjhancock ( talk) 06:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
See this on the COI noticeboard. MER-C 09:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
What's the deal with User:P747AH. Looking at his edit history, all he's done is deleting criticism from the Primerica page, and went into discussions/flamewars with users who edited the page against his wishes. Also, his first edits were empty edits to User:Primerica which leads to my belief that he's nothing but a paid shill for the company to edit the Wikipedia page to their wishes. He certainly isn't qualified to edit the article because of his association to company described and the resulting neutrality issues. 80.218.90.50 09:45, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Strikes me there are far too many external links here. As soon as the various subgroups and initiatives are individually notable they can have their own articles. Until then the following links appear to violate WP:EL:
Can anybody show why these satisfy :EL? Otherwise they can be removed. Be aware that "they are useful links" is not :EL friendly. Deizio talk 12:47, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Concerning this quote "Primerica has been criticized as a multi-level marketing (MLM) company.[4][5]". I request that it be reworded.
1. The first link reads "More Primerica complaints include allegations that it is a pyramid scheme or an MLM scam". If one is to use this as an authoritative source, Citigroups division should be called an illegal "pyramid scheme" as well. One can find uneducated criticisms anywhere on the web. This link needs to be removed.
2. The definition of a "multi-level" is still developing. If we absolutely must label Primerica a multi-level, at least have the professionalism to avoid marking it as a "criticism". That's unacceptible in an encyclopedia of this caliber. Traditionally, "criticized" multilevels are those that (one way or another) make a profit internally (meaning, a significant amount of the business is done within the heirarchy as opposed to externally, with clients). These multilevels are criticised and likened to pyramids because people are buying from themselves and their upline in hopes of building their business (when obviously, they are the business the multilevel is building!). It's a crafty way to get committed customers. Primerica on the other hand, as cited in the article, has over 6,000,0000 clients and only 100,000 representatives! This fact alone excuses Primerica from being a "criticized multilevel" or likened to a pyramid in any meaningful respects. That's a 60:1 ratio simply assuming all primerica reps are clients! Clearly Primerica is not a "criticized multilevel" where the company is churning out customers. Because of that common misconception and the negativity associated with the word "multilevel" i request that we try and avoid using it unless necessary. If it must, lets at least have the professionalism to dissociate it with criticized multilevels, not associate it. Thanks.
Gnarlyocelot 05:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC) — Gnarlyocelot ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Hey Will, thanks for the response.
72.64.93.89 19:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC) 72.64.93.89 19:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
So, you don't have a source which rebuts the characterization of Primerica as an MLM, then? Anazgnos 21:19, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Gnarlyocelot 02:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Currently the last sentence reads: There have been complaints that some representatives have recruited new members using deceptive job interviews. [6]
I suggest the following amplification.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[6] “ https://pol2.primerica.com/home/ > Compliance > Guidelines and Policies > Policies and Procedures Section 1.4”.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The web address for Flash articles is always the same as the homepage, so the link order is the best we can do. The website is only accessible to agents, but I can do a ‘print screen’ and e-mail it to you. This information is the web form of the Annul Compliance Handbook.
1. “I understand that I do not make any money from recruiting and that earnings are based on the sale of products.”
2. “Each recruit should be personally interviewed prior to an offer of association with Primerica. If the recruit appears qualified, they should be asked to complete and sign the IBA.”
Having considered Primerica for a solid year (I live in the Los Angeles area), I decided to give it my all to see what I could make of it. I learned something that made me quit. My RVP insisted that Primerica is not a Multi-Level Marketing Business, but merely a modified brokerage. The validity of this depends upon whether or not the structure pulls consideration (value or money) from new recruits that is a significant portion of the income of the company. Previous discussions on this page have targeted the $199 Primerica charges as a start-up cost. This is nothing. Forget about it. The liscensing costs the company far more than that. The consideration taken from the new recruit is in the form of clients and referals, which technically costs them nothing, but is invaluable to the business. When a new recruit goes on training appointments, their upline (trainer) has the opportunity to make a sale which, statistically, happens 70% of the time (according to my RVP). That is because of the great products, which I believe are perfectly viable.
In my case, it was impressed upon me that I needed to go through 6 training appointments so that I could be refunded $200 ($1 more than the $199). This sounds like a good deal, but it has an encouraged (though technically not required) stipulation in practice: I am the one that has to find the 6 clients in the target market ($30k - $75k annual income, owns a home, married, has children, age 25 - 45). The training appointments don't count towards my six unless they are with people who satisfy at least four out of five of these requirements. My RVP said that it is not the case that I am required to find my own clients to train with, but my experience proves different. In the six months I have been seriously pursuing this business, I have come to the conclusion that it is not just a requirement, but the "blood of the business" (to quote my RVP directly). Before getting started, the new recruit is required to provide the most valuable thing the business can ask for: warm-market, target-market clients, with the leverage of "helping" their friend (the new recruit) pushing them to seriously consider the pitch. When asked directly, my RVP had to admit that the vast majority of the sales made by the company are done so in this situation.
Because company policy requires consideration (something of value) from its new recruits that is, in fact, the primary source of income for the business, I call it a multi-level marketing business. The business would not survive without new recruits and the clients they bring in. Here is where I draw a line. Is it moral to build a business on the prospect of future business? This is a question with a variable answer. Primerica doesn't technically require anyone to make their money off of recruiting people who bring in sales opportunities for their training sessions, but it is written everywhere in the training materials and repeated emphatically at every meeting. "Recruit, recruit, recruit!" This is the one thing that has bothered me and, apparently, everyone else. I say no, it is not moral to run a business this way because of precisely what I ran into.
I gave it my best shot. I talked to my friends and family. I told them that I was getting started with a company and needed to do some training appointments. You know what they said? Nine out of the ten couples I approached said: "We have been approached by Primerca representatives too many times already. We're not interested." Now, granted, I know a lot of people that are actually very good with their finances already, and truly don't need the Financial Needs Analysis that Primerica offers. What disturbed me was that they had already been approached multiple times. I was told that Primerica only had a 1% share of the market, and saturation (maximum consumer demand) of the market was hundreds of years away in the future. But saturation is the percentage of people who are willing and able to buy the product.
Problem: if Primerica's income is from new recruits and 90% of those recruits fail to continue because they realise it's an MLM, wouldn't the market begin to get filled with people who have gotten wise? Wouldn't people begin to say: "I've heard of you, I know what you do, and I don't think there's an opportunity any more?" I would call that market saturation, wouldn't you? Even if the moral issue of "getting there first" and leaving the members of your business to deal with the real work doesn't bother you, beware that the maximum potential saturation level of Primerica in the financial market is much lower than they would like you to believe. The business model is built to be exponential, creating hoards of ex-primericans. However, the products are sound and useful to a very large market, so the company continues to generate sales. Weird, huh?
In conclusion, I think that Primerica's services are honest and helpful, but that the business model, that of extracting clients and the statistical sales that result from new recruits, is unethical. It isn't fair or honest to the recruit, claiming a blind eye as to whether or not the opportunity really exists. This business might be made ethical in the opinion of some by not using this leverage, but no one who does that makes any money. And that rather kills the point of calling it a "business," doesn't it?
celloscratch@gmail.com 02:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC) http://primerica-the-mlm.blogspot.com/
I removed the citation to Primerica's Corporate Policy (where it states that Primerica forbids MLM schemes), because you need to log in to view it. If we can find a source that states the same thing without needing a login, please post that instead. If not, we can put that citation back in. Thanks. - RomeW 06:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I am employee of Primerica and have been for several years. On a technicality, and in the traditional sense of the word, I am not an employee, but more of, say, a subcontractor. I don't work for Primerica, rather for myself and my family. If I want to make money, I go out and do it. If I would rather sit at home and play video games or fool around online, I can do that as I please.
I have NEVER heard ANYONE in the company say such things as "Government sponsored" when referring to the $199 fee. The fee is basically to make sure the people who walk through the door are there with good intent, not just to have something handed to them. I've seen many people in both the Bricktown and Neptune, NJ offices come and go. Out of the 20 odd people in my class, there are only maybe 3 still around. I've seen people come in working dead end jobs as waiters and go on to make 50+ thousand in a year and I've seen people come in and only manage 5 thousand.
Just like everywhere else you can possibly go, It may not be for you. I sat through six months of meetings and did research online before I even thought about coming up with $199 for the course. Had I been a little more motivated before, I wouldn't have even had to come up with the money in the first place. Like stated before, if you can do 6 presentations (which is a way to train you anyway), you can get your re-inbursement (or if done before your course is scheduled, You'll receive your 200 dollar "re"imbursement to put towards your course).
I have heard of cases where people pressure others to join the company and will definitely be one of the first to say there are bad people in the company and it messes things up for the rest of us. I had a girlfriend when I first started the business who was invited by someone from one of our offices up North. She came in and decided to give it a try. The woman who invited her and was to be her upline lied to her and told her that "the $199 fee needs to be paid in cash". This is a total lie, the lady took her money and took off. She was soon after fired and fined for repeatedly doing this. There was another guy who had friends buy policies and other products from him so he could get to RVP (Regional Vice President), then once he was there all of those policies were cancelled. The company looked into it and he was soon fired and fined as well.
Overall, it is a good place to work, if you don't mind taking risk and working hard. It's NOT for everyone and most of all, NOT A GET RICH SCHEME. I am now located in the Neptune, NJ and we make sure to stress, in every meeting, this fact.
On a side note and my individual experience has been that optimists tend to (but not always) do better and last longer. The pessimists seem to doubt everything from word go and rarely even go past the initial op meeting. This is MY sole opinion and not to be taken as anything more than that.
GangrelNitemare 07:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
have anyone notice the cost of all the financial products of this company? They are consistently higher than anyone else. Why is that you would ask? Ripping people off you might answer. Houston
I was GangrelNitemare, but I lost my login information so I created a new account. Here goes:
1 - Kinslayer, My experiance means nothing to anyone and I know that. There are others who make fantastic money with the corperation and others who find it to be too much of a bother. If you would take a few minutes out of your life and stop reading half-truths and other misinformation on the internet and pick up Money magizine or other magizines of that sort, you'd see that Primerica is in the news for doing a lot of good things. Our name has been dragged through the mud by other insurance companies. We've been noted in several books, unfortunately, I do not have the list of these books, but I will get them up within 2 weeks so you can get your fill of hard facts from third-party sources.
2 - As far as reimbursement of the course fees goes, it's done in a different manner in different teams. When I came into the company, I was in Brick, NJ. There they required you to do the 6 presentations to get that money back. My team, however does it differently. We are (and were when I was in Brick as well) running out of the Neptune, NJ office and we do not give a direct reimbursement of the course fees. Now, if you break it down, even not getting the money reimbursed you are still making out like a bandit. The cost for you to do this on your own in NJ is aproximately $3,000 or more. The way my team goes about the reimbursement (for lack of a better term) is, if you are licensed when you start your training, because you CANNOT earn a commission if you are NOT licensed, you can sign off on half the application, meaning, you will receive half the commission level you are at. I.E. if you are earning 25% commission on life insurance sales, you would instead earn a 12.5% commission. Not bad considering you aren't doing anything more than watching someone else do the work.
The course fees and regulations have recently changed in the state of New Jersey. The course used to be a 40 hour course and renewal of ones license was every 4 years along with proof of 48 hours of continued education credits. The course is now 24 hours, cost is down to $99 dollars for the class, and renewal is every 2 years with 24 hours continued education credits. Continued education is required as laws are changed/added and rules and regulations on the industry are changed/added.
3 - Huston, I suggest you also pick up a book and take a good read. I have had only one case where I could not save someone money on their life insurance. This is ONLY because they purchased a policy and were able to increase the face value to $500,000. Shortly after they increased the face value to half a million, they were diagnosed with heart disease and, at 25 years of age, received a pacemaker. Due to their condition, even their current insurance company couldn't give them more coverage, nor could they obtain a second policy without paying a small fortune.
As the largest company in its field, Primerica would be shut down if it were doing anything illegal. There are thousands of employees - self-employed individuals - in Primerica and, unfortunately, soem are overly aggressive or down right greedy and will attempt to mislead people in an attempt to create business for themselves or to get people recruited. A few years back there was a problem with one of our offices in Woodbridge, NJ where we fired people for taking recruits money. Instead of accepting a check/money order, they lied to the recruits and said they had to pay the $199 in cash and never contacted them again. These people were taken care of swiftly and cannot get their license ever again.
Primerica is a company founded on saving people money and getting them out of debt. The company would not have survived this long without keeping true to this very idea. I will return, as stated, with a few titles for those of you who are willing to get out from behind their computer moniters and read a book so you can get some outside information/opinions on Primerica.
ACaruso84 03:31, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Sadly that sucker is me but I only lost money as I barely invested time in that scheme, they're not lying to you but only blinding you to the facts. Their weekly speeches (more like praise) is aimed at low income people promising them and their like to get out of their torment but the way to achieve it is to aim at higher income people. The structure itself is very much like a pyramidal scheme except this one you can make money but at what cost ? How many hours of hassling do you need to make a sale and for what money exactly ?! They keep a lot from you in those speeches and with all the hidden fees, it comes down to an average salary but drilling people, making dubious sales and cold calls (telemarketing) seems pretty low and should be paid much more to take away your pride. I much prefer practicing a trade which directly help people and the economy rather than scooping between the cracks while annoying people. DynV 03:41, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I have to admit, when i first attended a seminar/company overview, I was curious as to how the business worked. Granted they make you go to a few overviews to fianlly get your answer. But that is only because they are getting a feel for you and to see if you have the determination and drive that the business needs. After attending the 2007 Atlanta Convention, I found that only people with drive and determination to succeed were in attendance. So many people need security and stabilty and a guarauntee that a paycheck will be there on Friday. As with many commission based careers, Primerica IS commission based. I don't understand why people are knocking the business. There are many careers that are commission based but don't offer the oppourtunity to become wealthy unless you work countless hours and put in years and years of work. And the fees explained aren't hidden like you say. Obviously you weren't paying attention during the overview. They clearly list your fees in black and white/plain english. Primerica IS NOT AIMED AT PEOPLE WITH HIGHER INCOMES. It is a service that is greatly needed for middle-class families/individuals who need and seek financial guidance. The once $199 fee has dropped since and is now $99 and covers the entire costs of all liceses associated with the business. That includes Life and health, mortgage and a secruities license. So if you feel like the business isn't for you, you are free to job hunt elsewere. LICENSED AND ALL. PRIMERICA IS ALSO THE ONLY COMPANY THAT DOES GOVERNMENT BACKGROUND CHECKS WITH THE FBI. In no way are you forced to sell a product noone needs or has never heard of. It is strictly for the consumers benefit. Primerica serves you knowledge on how to save and invest your money so you can have a better retirement. Because lets all face the hard core facts... social secruity will be none exsistant in the near future. So for those of you who choose to knock the business, please read the proper literature and evaluate yourself because from my experience, for those who knock it want things to be done FOR THEM and choose not to work hard for their successes. jasminsheree 11:18 pm aug 8, 2007 Jasminsheree 04:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
You also have to remember that the reason you get a commission is because Primerica is the company of Citigroup that sells ALL of Citigroups other comapnies products example: most of the investment type products that Primerica sells is through Smith Barney....Who owns Smith Barney? You guessed it Citigroup. Another example: Primerica offers 1st and 2nd mortgages through Citimortgage, and just incase you didn't already figure it out Citigroup owns that too. Does it seem that a company that has to sell products for its parent company won't telemarket, recruit good salesmen, and create a means to motivate and somewhat keep there employees producing profit? I think not. All the people criticizing a company that helps the most neglected people in the U.S. (the middle class) And why are the so ready to do it so easily? They are trying to create a monopoly on the whole finanical market. I guess no one remembers Carnagie and Rockefeller. Oh yeah! And i guess none of you know that a grandson of the Rockefeller was a former executive of Citigroup...Hmmm He wouldn't follow his Grandpa's footsteps in business practices, do you think he could've help stratigize how the biggest financial company in the world could make even more money? BlueIceUnltd 20:10, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
What a fascinating hypothesis. Too bad the facts don't prop it up. Over the last few years Primerica has switched from selling Citigroup products to selling products like MetLife variable annuities, GE long term care insurance, and Pre-Paid Legal, all exclusively. They no longer market Smith Barney mutual funds. I'm not even sure they exist anymore. Plus, all of the auto and homeowners they offer are outsourced to other underwriters. So, out of all products Primerica offers, only loans and life insurance are actually offered by the parent company. If anything, Citi has been moving away from integration, offloading the mutual funds and spinning Travelers off. Some monopoly. Monkey Bounce 19:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Life Insurance is offered through Primerica Life Insurance, not Citi. The loans are the only real item that is Citi specific. 76.186.202.72 ( talk) 22:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Why is this material being removed? I don't see what policy would call for its removal. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 17:13, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Image:Primerica logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 19:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I deleted the section titled "PFS Superstar - True Born Leader, 'Mr. PFS', 'Best of The Best'" because it's unencyclopedic. I can see from the edit history that this section's been removed & replaced a couple of times, so I wanted to make a note of it here -- it looks like self-promotion, in violation of WP:SOAP, I think. Uncat 06:54, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I've removed these claims, as they have cited http://www.pyramidschemes.com/ as a source. That site, at least as far as I can determine, is a blog, as opposed to a verifiable source. -- Mhking ( talk) 15:47, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Moreover, as near as I was able to tell, that website never once even mentioned Primerica. The reference is either very hidden or isn't there at all. Monkey Bounce ( talk) 23:09, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
When I first looked up this article (probably soon after my own personal interaction with the company), it was composed almost entirely of negative criticism, and now it has evolved into almost entirely unbridled praise (even the "criticism" section attempts to mitigate a past criticism). It seems that this article has been rewritten solely to repair the company's negative reputation. The article as it stands should be deleted and be rewritten from scratch, with better balanced positive and negative points. Wikipedia is not a place for exposés or advertisements. Mal7798 ( talk) 15:31, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
The latest edits remove all reference to the Ripoff Report's current stance on the company while citing them as a critic and cite a 10 year old SEC document as being a "current" investigation. Clearly, someone has an axe to grind against the company and is eager to twist sources any way they can to get the result they want. Monkey Bounce ( talk) 08:49, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
I've protected the article because there's a slow-speed eit war with no attemtps at resolution. Please use this talk page to discuss the article and to agree on improvements. Once some progress is shown we can unprotect it. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 07:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
And within 12 hours of the protection expiring, the edit wars begin again. Monkey Bounce ( talk) 00:13, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't see how the Primerica Convention image gallery really helps to improve this article. I would also argue the 2007 Primerica Convention section is unnecessary, also. For the broad scope of the history section, the 2007 Primerica Convention sub-section, seems too specific and focused. What about previous Primerica conventions? I feel if the convention is going to be mentioned, it should also include past conventions, too. There's enough information about the Primerica conventions to create its own article. But I'm not sure that's needed, either. Regardless, the 2007 Primerica Convention section should be deleted. P747AH ( talk) 02:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
This article needs a *major* rewrite. It is incredibly biased towards the company and uses company pages (or other questionable sources, such as a blog post from Palminfocenter.com) for the vast majority of its references. It used to be much more balanced last year but it's taken a turn for the worst now (I suspect it's agents (which provides a conflict of interest, especially since I see a lot of them on this talk page). I don't have the time to do the re-write at the moment, so I stuck the "Neutrality" and "Advertisement" tags here and restored the "Criticism" section (although I don't like that section as it stands).- RomeW ( talk) 02:56, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
A cursory examination of the 'ripoff report' review, website, and ripoff report shows that it's probably not a reliable source. It seems to be, (at best) a blog where consumers can post complaints of companies, or (at worste) a muck racking website which posts unfavorable reviews and then extorts money from the company to alter them. Either way, it doesn't seem like an appropriate 'varifiable source'. As much as I am loathe to remove information and not have anything to put back in it's place, i'm afraid until a reliable sources can be found, i'm going to remove the entire section. Bigmacd24 ( talk) 22:31, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Good to see such interest in the page, also, kudos to everyone for talking about my edit here instead of just reverting. I kinda agree with Monkey Bounce about removing the whole section, it was my intent to do so yesterday, but the 'citation needed' seemed more convincing last night than it does today. Timberlax's review of the ripoff report describes it as the internet equivalent of 'the national inquirer'. I realize the review that was linked is from 'the president of ripoff report' but i'm not 100% on that making him a reliable source. As for the review apearing journalistic, that's all fine and good, if the reviewer is a reliable source. I'm going to spend a bit of tonight reading up the exact policies regarding this. But I figured i'd drop a note in here first. Bigmacd24 ( talk) 08:42, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm back, and so is the criticism section. Recently edited by Atlas, a new user who's only entry into the encyclopedia is this article. Actually, I kinda like Atlas's take on it, except that my previous objections to the entry still stand. There are currently no verifiable sources in the criticism section, so I think it needs to go. Rome, is the article fair and balanced? Maybe, maybe not, but I think the answer to a bad article isn't another bad section. Are there any reasons we should keep the section based on it's own merits, and not just 'evening out' a theoretical 'npov' meter? Bigmacd24 ( talk) 07:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, I promised myself I wouldn't revert the page again till I got some folks agreeing with me, but I went and did it anyway. The criticism section was restored by user:68.224.139.31 who seems to have copied and pasted the text of the article from the article page and not the code. If we end up going back, please make sure to revert to the earlier version. That said, please don't revert until we have a chance to talk about it. If you feel like it, revert it, and /then/ post in here, and I won't change anything until we get some form of concensus. My reasons for deleting the criticism section are described below, but mainly that the section doesn't cite any criticism. I don't think it's appropriate to have the criticism section without there being criticism from a notable source. Wikipedia isn't a soap box to write reviews of companies, that's what rip-off report is for. Bigmacd24 ( talk) 17:50, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
The IP address making the edits is 12.163.2.10
Look up the IP address at http://geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation and you'll see it originates from Duluth, GA, the same city that Primerica is headquartered out of.
Do a whois on that IP address ( http://www.arin.net/whois/index.html) and you'll find:
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1) PRIMERICA FINANCIAL SRVICES PRIMERIC159-2 (NET-12-163-2-0-1)
These are obviously not NPOV edits, can we get a moderator to step in here and prevent this abuse? Chesspieceface ( talk) 17:53, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
They're removing the entire section instead of using citation-needed smacks of censorship. I've added more sources including established blog news sites.
Chesspieceface (
talk)
18:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons.
–Jimmy Wales [2]
This isn't an objective article on Primerica. It is no more than a glowing corporate history, concocted by Primerica itself. There is alot of valid criticism of Primerica and other MLM's and criticism should be included for an objective look at the compnay. I am not accusing Primerica of being a pyramid scheme, but nonetheless, criticism of the company is warranted and should be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.75.175.18 ( talk • contribs)
When I compare this article to any other article for any other financial services (click on any other brands in the CitiGroup template at the bottom of the page), this article is definitely one of the more developed and well constructed articles. Yet people complain there's no information here?
Then there's the whole criticism section complaints. I looked them up in the history and they sounded like nothing more than the typical juvenile whining and conspiracy theories against big companies. What exactly does Primerica do that piss people off so much? I'm really laughing my ass off here. If these people really got "scammed," then the first thing they should do is go to the authority, not whining about it on Wiki. LoL.
On the other hand, since this organization seems to have existed for over 3 decades... if it IS a scam, it really doesn't make sense that Citi would buy it, and government hasn't closed it down. o.o
Although i do agree with the neutrality check since subjective words like "largest" and "most competitive" are used so often here. Someone should go through it and change the tone to be more objective before removing POV-check tag. Ssh83 ( talk) 18:56, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
In regards to criticism of the company, most complaints come from competition or individuals who either did not understand what they were presented or quit the business with sour grapes. That being said, there are issues around. In my own experience as an Agent for the company, I have come across a few (1 or 2 that I can recall) that were legitimately wronged by their previous agent(s). All and all, you will not find a more compliant company in this industry. The SEC fine that is mentioned and one regulatory fine (Less than $15k) are the only 2 fines I know of ever levied against the company. Rjhancock ( talk) 06:34, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
As Primerica was an important part of Sandy Weill's empire in his drive to build what ultimately became Citibank, why have all the original reference's to Sandy Weill's takeover and ownership of the firm - that were originally listed in the article - been removed? Also, this firm, Primerica specifically, has had a lot of legal troubles with state regulatory agencies, most notably with New York state... Why is there no mention of this? For some reason this article looks as if it has been "cleaned" by someone with an agenda. Even the Sandy Weill article is notoriously bereft of all the criticisms that surrounded him during his career. Is the internet becoming as antiseptic as television? How is it that information disappears like this and who benefits? Seriously, most of this information in here now consists of half-truths, which essentially leaves it as non-truth. This article is in dire need of revision... Stevenmitchell ( talk) 20:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Without being able to do much research, I felt it necessary to add the criticism section, since this company is plagued with controversy over its recruiting methods and aggressive sales techniques. I will do some more research later, but I feel it would be negligent to say nothing of this company's troubled history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chicanery ( talk • contribs) 14:15, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Apparently it was deleted again... I was contacted by this company this afternoon and they do seem to have a very shady background. But the Wiki article seems to have been written by the company! It needs to be unbiased... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.245.234.66 ( talk) 04:43, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Have any of you actually looked at the ripoff report page lately? Don't look at old links, just go the the main website and search Primerica and you will see that ripoff report has changed its tune since it investigated the company. Look at your "sources" regularly and refresh them, or check this link to the article.... http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/229/RipOff0229393.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Minibass ( talk • contribs) 17:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
I sent an e-mail to Ripoff Report suggesting that they have been 'compelled' to change their tune, and challenging the mission and objectivity of their site and purpose. Their sudden and unexplained ingratiation towards Primerica aside, the editorial preamble before each article is unnecessary and detracts from the overall mission of the site. Instead of getting a personal response from Ripoff Report, they copied and pasted a template defending Primerica. I replied back, telling them my concern wasn't with Primerica, and they forwarded my e-mail to a Primerica rep. who copied and pasted another template, with the usual song and dance about the company's accomplishments. Now, while this is all mildly amusing, it's obvious to me that Ripoff Report's new-found opinion on Primerica is mechanical; the true reasons may never be made public. If you're going to consider Ripoff Report as a source, ignore the website's conspicuous disclaimer and focus on the pages upon pages of negative testimonials. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.61.123.189 ( talk) 13:25, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Why was the company logo and picture of CEO deleted? No explanation behind that. -Timberlax 04:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
I changed this once before. Citicorp Trust Bank, fsb no longer services Primerica Loans. They are now serviced by CitiMortgage Directly. Not only was an internal memo sent out about it, it also states as much on the web site for Citicorp Trust Bank, fsb. I will change it back. Rjhancock ( talk) 01:34, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Isn't there a way in the software to block edits by IP address? That way those accounts that are known to vandalize pages for the sake of it can't edit anymore. Or at least put a 15 or 30 day hold on them? It can also be used to block companies from editing their own pages. Rjhancock ( talk) 21:19, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
If Primerica is going to have an "Awards and Commendations" section, it better damn well have a Criticisms section. This business pays its employees in Kool-Aid and training materials. This is nothing more than a bona-fide cult. If someone comes on here and becomes victimized by these Primerica Children of The Corn, then its on your shoulders. I've tried my best. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.61.123.189 ( talk) 20:11, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
"This business pays its employees in Kool-Aid and Training Materials." A) It's employees are paid like any other W-2 employee in a company. B) It's independent contractors are paid on commissions twice a week via a check or direct deposit. The problem with legitimate criticism is that it is hard to come by. Most of the problems you speak of, and choose to spread as misinformation, is directly related to the INDIVIDUAL you were in contact with and not the company. Everyones experience will be different since people are different. And by my counts, for every 1 person with a problem, there are at least 100 people that have been helped. By telling people to stay away, you could be doing more harm than what you claim Primerica is doing. rjhancock ( talk) 23:41, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Primerica has been seperated from Citigroup and is currently in Citi Holdings waiting to either be spun off or sold. Should this be reflected yet or wait until it has happened. As of Jan 14th, the sales force was instructed to start marking Citi off of business cards and marketing materials. rjhancock ( talk) 06:12, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Cheers Nicolas1981 ( talk) 11:37, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
As of right now, Primerica is a Sub of Citi Holdings. What happens next is what I was in reference too. In my opinion, Primerica will be spun back off into its own company like it was before the Consumer Credit merger, but I have no facts to back that up at this time. rjhancock ( talk) 15:02, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Quick update, based on news clippings and internal scuttlebutt, the sale is complete. My thinking is because Citi is suppose to be announcing a $8.3 Billion profit this quarter. The only way they can is by selling PFS. I updated the logo to the current one (and a higher res one). Also, regarding the POV added into the content, if there is little to no negative content from a reputable source, does that still matter? rjhancock ( talk) 06:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
What are the rules for links that lead to subscription pages? I tried going to the one that was added at the Financial Times, even registered to see the article. I was immediately turned away saying I had already exhausted my views this month when I had just signed up 10 seconds before. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rjhancock ( talk • contribs) 14:57, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I should point out though, that the description says Primerica was an under performer. If that is the description of one of only 2 branches of Citigroup that even made a profit last year, then the writer is an idiot (article writer, not user). For reference, Smith Barney was the other one. Both branches are being "sold" as "bad bank business." rjhancock ( talk) 15:11, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I am extremely concerned with the content of this article. It extremely biased in favour of Primerica, containing only positive quotes and references about Primerica, while a quick "google" search on the company reveals a vast majority of negative quotes and references. I suggest that the content of the article should be edited to reflect a less biased point of view. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.169.15.155 ( talk) 17:40, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
That has been under much debate. The thing about the vast majority of that information is that it was posted in a public forum where people have a believed anonymity or from agents from other companies that have a vest interest in taking business away from Primerica. People complain about the recruiting aspect, except that is SOP in virtually every business. People complain about having to pay to join, yet that goes towards background checks and processing and licensing fees. More money is lost than gained. People complain of having a bad experience, well, that happens with ANY company. It is just amplified with Primerica due to over 100k reps vs. about 10k reps at other companies.
I am not suggesting they shouldn't be taken into consideration, but without an actual documented wrong doing by a court, they are simply opinions and can't be included in a Wiki article. rjhancock ( talk) 00:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I've trimmed the long blockquotes from the "Ratings, awards and commendations" section, some of which weren't really relaible sources, and renamed it "reception", a generic heading. Will Beback talk 03:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I removed 'and criticisms' from the title of the 'Ratings, awards, commendations, and criticism' section because that section contained only praise and no criticism. I think that a 'Criticism' section should be added to this article, independent of the 'Ratings, awards and commendations' section. I am unsure of how to do this myself (perhaps I do not have the authority?). Articles like this one from the New York Times could be added to my proposed 'Criticism' section: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/16/nyregion/at-latest-job-fair-a-warning-not-to-take-some-jobs.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pirate fishrick ( talk • contribs) 18:36, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
PLEASE leave the criticism section alone. Stop deleting it. Censoring criticism does not change the fact that this company is highly controversial. I don't see how censoring the 'other side' is fair representation of this company. You can't have a huge section of "awards" and not allow for criticism.
Please leave the criticism section there. If you have a problem with the criticism, please change the text but leave the section in place. There is genuine criticism of Primerica, just as there is genuine criticism about Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc. If you remove the criticism section completely, then the article is violating NPOV. -- OMouse ( talk) 03:34, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Primerica has a dubious history and in the interests of equitable coverage should be included in any article on it. As part of that heritage, it should be noted in this article that Primerica was prohibited from practicing in the State of New York for a period of time. Additionally, they may have been prohibited from practicing in other U.S. states as well. Stevenmitchell 23:05, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I would like to state that, being a former agent myself, I don't believe for one second that the $199 fee goes to "government courses". Why? First of all, if it is a state-sponsored (or provincially-sponsored) program it wouldn't be "$199" everywhere- it would vary. Second of all, if it's a government program, then you should be able to get your license following the completion of the program. The fact that you don't indicates that it most likely isn't government-sponsored.
I would also like to state that the previous revision's assertation that the opinions of former agents can be "dismissed" to be rather disgusting. We are not merely a class of fifty or so people- thousands of failed recruits come every year, as the company loses between 90-98% of its workforce annually. In a subjective article, these complaints- which are substantial- should not be brushed aside but rather brought to the light, since neutrality demands that nothing hides its bad side. I am not saying that Primerica cannot provide a legitimate business- some people have managed to succeed, and I congratulate them. However, for a Wikipedia article to denounce the accusations of many as unimportant stands in the way of everything that Wikipedia is about, since neutrality isn't about hiding anything.- RomeW
IN REALITY, NO ONE IS BEING TRYICKED INTO ANYTHING THEY DONT WANT. IF PRIMERICA DIDN'T WORK OUT FOR YOU IS BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T PUT THE WORK BEHIND. YOU ALSO THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS A GET RICH QUICK TYPE OF THING. AND IT ISN'T. TRUE, OVER 90% OF THE PPL THAT JOIN END UP QUITTING. MORE THAN HALF OF THESE PPL QUIT BEFORE THEY EVEN BECOME LISENCED! HOW CAN YOU EXPECT TO MAKE MONEY IN THIS COMPANY WITH OUT YOUR LISENCE?? PRIMERICA IS NOT FOR EVERYONE, BUT THEY SURE DO GIVE EVERYONE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SOMETHING OF THEMSELVES. DONT LEAVE PRIMERICA BITTER BECAUSE IT DIDN'T WORK FOR YOU, ITS OBVIOUS THAT YOU DIDN'T PUT THE WORK BEHIND IT.
MONZON —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.60.116.178 ( talk • contribs). 22:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
This material is from the article List of purported cults, which we are paring down to a pure list. Editors here can best evaluate its statements and decide how to integrate it into this article. Thanks, - Willmcw 10:58, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)
17:22, 13 November 2005 (UTC)17:22, 13 November 2005 (UTC)~
In general,Primerica suffers from some of the same issues as other MLM businesses. I should clarify that MLM does not mean scam, it's simply an entirely voluntary hierarchy system based on amount of members recruited/business done (either through volume or dollar amount). Most of these issues have to do with the impossible difficulty of controlling such a large representative base. One greedy rep, and now people get screwed. The top of the hierarchy's message to reps is always the same: be honest and help people. Some members take the traditional approach to high pressure insurance sales, which turns away potential reps and clients. Every MLM suffers from some organizations that participate in unethical practices. However, the quality of services offered through Primerica are undoubtedly high and definitely in demand for any willing and able rep to build a lasting and profitable business with.
The products/services offered and compensation provided to reps are what differenciates PFS from other MLM systems. There is a real demand for what Primerica offers to middle class families, not overpriced groceries. The system also does not suffer from hundreds of dollars in investment per month to be successful. The licenses gained are legitimate, the need is legitimate, and the vast majority of reps follow the rules and guidelines set by the company.
On the subject of the one time $199 fee, this fee was talked about towards the end of the Overview, and explained thoroughly by the RVP. The fee is broken down into two parts:
1.)$40, non refundable. Goes towards federal and state background checks. No Felons, please.
2.)$159, refundable. This is for the prelicensing courses provided by the company. The cost of the course is over $500. The $159 is the amount that the rep puts towards that amount. The company pays the rest. If a rep does not get licensed in 120 days, the fee will be refunded and the rep will no longer exist with the company.
In ending, I have not heard any "Amens" or mention of "God" in correlation with the company or any of its members. Generalizing the business as a cult is simply irresponsible and ignorant. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.174.22.26 ( talk • contribs).
I was at a meeting today and there were several employees placed as foils at the meeting who would shout out agreement whenever the recruiter said something, and supply facts when he called for them. It felt very much like a cult to me. Especially with all of the videos of Ferraris and big houses and promises of a better life. Markleci
Were the things that the 'recruiter' said true? If so, I don't see why one WOULDN'T agree. How does 'promise' of a better life and REAL rich people driving their ACTUAL CARS=cult? If anything you make it sound like one of many 'get rich quick' plans ala infomercials. I'm honestly dumbfounded by your response to it. i'm guessing they played the video from the Success from Home magazine(July 2005 the entire issue was dedicated to Primerica). John Adison speaks of how hard it is to succeed with Primerica in the video. No promises are made in an opportunity meeting. Furthermore 'placed' and 'foils' implied they were secretive about the fact that they were reps(ask them before them meeting, they'll tell you.). It's common, in fact almost REQUIRED for reps to attend the meetings. Especially if they have guests. Was the person who invited you there? of course they were, or at the least their upline. 'Flis' itself implies that there were people speaking agaist the things they said. Again, I find your response odd and most likely that of osmeone LOOKING for a reason to dislike the company. This IS verifiable information. I'm at almost every meeting our office has. I speak from experience. I can quote people here if you like. I'd like more specific information so I can make a more detailed response to what you're saying. -- Thegzeus 16:11, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Even if what the recruiter was saying was true, having employees pretend to be members of the audience is dishonest and highly questionable. If the "REAL rich people driving their ACTUAL CARS" were highly atypical results then that is not an honest promise, and does have some of the earmarkings of a cult. The meetings themselves do sound like get rich quick plans, even if the people running them are careful to mention "all of the hard work" as an aside. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.218.86.204 ( talk • contribs) 15:46, 31 August 2006
I can't believe that so many people are arguing about the $199. i mean come on people the average smoker spends $150-$200 a month to KILL THEIRSELVES. this is only a one time deal, and yes, most of it does get refunded. but you have the ability to make that and much more before you are even done with the state mandated tests that qualify you for the reimbursement. and no it's actually quite the opposite of a get rich quick scheme. it is very hard grueling work (not physically) but you have to work on yourself. i have been involved with the company for about a year now and i can honestly say that it has changed my life. my marriage is better, i feel more self confident, and most of all i see all the negativty in the world and want to make a difference. and whoever wrote about primerica having the same troubles as any other MLM company is completely false. how do you think real estate works? if you recruit and train someone you make a percentage of their efforts. am i wrong? primerica is the only company in the world that actually gives anyone a chance (besides convicted felons and anyone with out a GED or equivalent) what other company completely disregards past mistakes. or looks at the school you didn't go to, or the race you're not, the sex you're not, how pretty you're not, and gives you a chance. i think smart people in general are turned off by our company for the sole reason that they have to start from the bottom. i mean why not let mommy and daddy send you to an ivy leauge school,or go into hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to go to an ivy leauge and not expect to have an easy high paying job at the end. these people don't even enter the real world until they are in their mid to late 20's. but they're who we're supposed to listen to? this business isn't for the fainthearted. if you had a chance to work hard and build a business in 5 to 10 years that would take care of your family for generations would you even worry about the $199 or anything else for that matter. i think people get too caught up in this "my company will take care of me" idealism and lack to take complete control of their lives. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.50.102.130 ( talk • contribs).
I was invited to a few Primerica meetings in 2004. One was in a hotel conference room and it was very nice and professional. Another one was in a local Primerica office and it seemed very cult-like. It kind of turned me off when the representatives were degrading other "J-O-Bs" (as they liked to call them). As with most companies it depends on the representative you are dealing with. I was seriously considering it, it just knew it was not a career I would enjoy. Draconis77 23:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
I hear a lot about the Cult-Like behaviors and i'd just like to say that all of these offices are INDEPENDANT so every office acts INDEPENDANTLY i do believe it when it was said earlier that people were shouting "amen" and other cult-like stuff, but you have to remember that every office is INDEPENDANT. I belong to an office and NYC and we do not say "amen" and such. Also, we do not have large scale advertising. All advertising is local to i'd say about 10 square city blocks, which would be hardly advertising. It's just as much advertising as a small buisness would do. PR? We have no PR.As for cult-like behavior and bad business practices at SOME offices: A lot of people get greedy when they see that they are making money and want more, so a few office heads might take part in illegal or immoral buisness practices which i encourage any and all to be reported to the proper officials and the main office in Atlanta, Georga! Also if you are associated with the company and do not get your questions answered by anyone in the office i suggest you try another office because that office is not for you, thay are suposed to help you with any and all questions and problems you have about the company, and if they don't you should try contacting whats called an OSJ or SNSD!
I don't know about cult per se, but I can attest to that their recruiting methods are highly irregular, even questionable. When I was contacted by a recruiter, I was told where and when to go -- that's it. I spoke briefly with a guy claiming to be a VP, but it opened up with a triangle scheme-style seminar. It had all the signs -- revisionist history, suggestion, and a salesperson-esque demeantor wherein statements are implied to be accepted as fact. Dissent was obviously discouraged. How can I tell? Because I was the only one who wasn't drinking the Kool-Aid. Mind you, I wasn't being disruptive. I quietly and attentively listened, but I didn't nod and murmur in approval to the gospel. Within ten minutes I was personally pointed out and removed from the room. I had not uttered a single word. That said, alarm bells and red flags were going off like crazy in my head (it was deja vu to my experience with Equinox International), and my skepticism probably showed on my face -- I'm not a good bluffer. Is this anecdotal evidence? Yes, but I believe I'm giving an unbiased account that warrants further investigation, not blanket dismissal. They did not vet their recruits, they specifically targeted the uninformed, and then told them how to think. In a seminar format, recruits are not given the opportunity to ask questions. My last comment is that I have also worked for non-scam companies which employed similar tactics to keep their employees under control. I have no evidence to claim Primerica is an MLM scam, but it does employ aggressive corporate propaganda and deceptive recruiting practices. One is not necessarily the other; the complaints are substantial, the accusations not necessarily so. 66.213.29.2 17:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)Dragonchild
RomeW: You are right in that each state has different fees for getting licensed, and I'm writing this to clarify why the company consistently asks only $199. What the company does is it subsidises (SP) the cost of training and licensing but makes it easier for it's agents by asking for the same fee in submitting an independant business application. The license, facility, materials and instructor generaly costs more than $199.00, so the company makes up the gap.
As an example it may cost (and these are examples don't take them as the actual expense) $450 for the company to license a person in California, $250 in Kansas and $220 in Maine, but the company only asks $199.
The reason they do that is to make it easier on their field reps. I live in Kansas City, 2 miles from the state line. I spend time in both states. If I did have someone interested in a career how confusing would it be to say licening is $199 in KS but $250 in MO? What if we lived in a tri-state area?
The office I'm licensed to work out of is one of the best in the company at licensing people which is 30%. In fact the company has asked the owner of our office to develop material on how we have such a hight recruit to code ration, because some offices have a recruit to code ration less than 1%.
As for people quitting, the company ratio's are about the same as those of most colleges. Simply look at how many students start as freshmen and compare that to how many graduate with a bachelors, then masters, then PHD's. Any individuals success is based on their effort, and people who don't work or can't be disciplined quit. Assuming everyone would be successful is as realistic as expecting everyone who goes to college to come out with a PHD. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CaptainNeda ( talk • contribs). (It seems that this paragraph is implying that one is only successful if he or she recieves a Ph.D, I recommend rewording this. Many students are quite successful with only an associates or batchelor's degree. Further, regarding the majority of undergraduate institutions: Most schools that only graduated one to thirty percent of its enrolled students would probably be investigated and would then most likely have its accreditation suspended or even revoked) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.176.65.165 ( talk • contribs).
Criticism Section Reads like two people having an argument. This is not an encyclopedia article by any stretch of the imagination. "See if another bank can do that - most cannot" WTF? I'm removing the elements most obviously contributed by the Primerica apologist. 216.99.240.244 01:53, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Actually, it's SAYING that sucess(IE, successfully completing the schooling needed to recieve a PHD) takes alot of time and hard work. I got that the first time I read it, and double checked the language used to make sure.
--
Thegzeus
16:15, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
My question is, "Why would Citi be related to a MLM?" And a tougher question is, "Why could the SEC and NASD allow anything questionable to sell securities?" Both answers led me to believe that there must a very high level of legitimacy with this business structure.
-- Futurethinker 23:13, 30 April 2007 (UTC) ==
No, a "discussion" is a two-way conversation. My relationship with the company gives me more credibility to speak on the subject. This site is supposed to be based on factual information, not uninfornmed opinions. If knowing more about the subject via personal interaction is a "conflict of interest," then we would all be forced to hold our tongues. -- Futurethinker 22:37, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
It is redundant to link all 8 corporate sites in this article. Each of those links are linked directly from the primary corporate site. Please do not add them in again Anazgnos 20:14, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
According to the policies and guidelines and a NPOV guidelines, inclusion of the Official corporate sites is permissable. Linking all corporate sites is not redundant. They do not redirect to the primary site, and their focus is for products and/or services Primerica offers. Please do not delete them again. A1794 08:23, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Look guys how can the company pay for every single insurance license? I don't know about other states, but in Texas the license I got was a Group 1 General Lines Insurance License. It allows me to do life insurance along with dental and health. If the company paid ALL of the cost, what would stop anyone who wanted this license to do any of these things to just use the company for a few weeks to get licensed and then take it somewhere else??
(relocated from main article:" "To use a word like "scheme" implies wrong doing of some sort. The disclaimer sized sentence at the end of the paragraph is not enough to contradict the inflamatory language in the beginning of the paragraph.
Also, whose criticisms of Primerica are these? Non biased? Please rethink. Thank You."
I don't feel "scheme" was overly negative or inflammatory in context but I have nevertheless removed it.
I will work on threading references to existing articles containing the criticisms listed. I believe this is a fair and impartial summary or the criticisms that are commonly levied against the company. If you wish to add a balancing perspective at this point the article could certainly use some more information on what services or products Primerica alleges to offer, which I do not claim to be knowledgeable enough to provide. The services should be described impartially and not hawked or cloaked in rhetoric, as appeared in previous revisions. Anazgnos 21:52, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Hey look, an add for primerica on wikipedia. Great! (primerica intentionally left lowercase) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fitchhollister ( talk • contribs) 04:02, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I think we're having problems again...this section used to be a lot bigger. Now, it's been reduced and "spun" even though many criticisms still exist.-
RomeW (
talk)
09:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
These criticisms exist, and are being reported on fairly and neutrally. This portion of the article should not be treated as an opportunity to defend the company or discredit criticisms as they are stated. If needed, a seperate paragraph or section regarding responses to criticisms may be entered. 70.183.63.108 21:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
GnarlyOcelot: Anazgnos, first, my sincerest apologies; i did not realize there was a section where the article could be discussed. I think we've both been getting a little frustrated but now that we can actually exchange viewpoints hopefully this will be more fruitful. Im not entirely familiar with how this works. 1. How do i send you messages directly and 2. is this how we should continue communicating? Through this wikipedia box? Let's make this a good fair article. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gnarlyocelot ( talk • contribs).
I've gone ahead and pasted in the "compromise" paragraph. I took the "addressing" section out as well since it was adressing things that are no longer present in the main paragraph, but if you want to bring some of that back, feel free. Anazgnos 16:23, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
User "Lyean" - You have reverted this article to a previous revision two times. If you continue to do so, you may be blocked according to Wikipedia policy. The previous article is not acceptable according to Wikipedia NPOV standards. Thank you. Anazgnos 20:49, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Is this the reason it now has many links to scam sites and is SIGNIFICANTLY shorter than it was a week ago?
One week earlier it was accurate, detailed, and informative.
now it's short, inconclusive, and has as much info as some small amature band entry...
I'm sorry if that comes off crass, because it is well WRITTEN, but waht's written doesn't inform very well.--
Thegzeus
20:34, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Excuse my lack of skill in the method of posting here. I'm not used to it yet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Primerica_Financial_Services&direction=prev&oldid=54732891
This version is far superior to what we have left. Additions to would better than removals from it, I believe.
The cult comments are...ludicrously one-sided, so those are out.
A fair discussion of both sides of NEW criticisms is in order. Once a good balanced set with both sides represented equally is available, we can then move forward. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thegzeus ( talk • contribs).
First of all, there is no mention in the article that this is an MLM business. Primerica is to insurance what Amway is to merchandising. It is very disingenuous to skirt this fact. Also, the Products Offered section is nothing more than an advertisement. I am going to refer this to the moderators for review. If we wanted a whitewashed, sanitized advertisement for the company, a link to their web site would suffice instead of this poor excuse for an encyclopedia article. It is nothing more than propaganda. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.45.112.212 ( talk • contribs).
Please sign this entry as well. Thegzeus 23:44, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
PS. See: "Primerica at MLM Survivor" Tadaaa. Thegzeus 23:44, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
This article is so obviously an advertisement, non NPOV and not to Wikipedia standards that I can't believe that it is still here! This makes us (Wiki editors and contributors) ALL look bad! ( Franklooper ( talk) 00:06, 15 October 2008 (UTC))
The article currently states: "The industry likes to focus the consumer's attention almost entirely on the interest rate and the monthly payment, whereas Primerica representatives are trained to focus on the total cost of the loan (total interest expressed as a dollar amount) and the client's "debt freedom date"."
This is pretty word-for-word from Primerica. I don't think I'd see this in a Britannica article, were they to address Primerica. "The industry likes to..." You mean the largest multinational banking conglomerate in the world (Citigroup) isn't "The Industry"? The whole $MART loan section needs to be re-done. It needs to describe what it is, exactly, how is it different from traditional refinancing, and perhaps a counter to its draw-backs. I'm tempted to do this myself, but maybe post it here in the discussion page and see what senior Wikipedians think. The $MART loan can be a good product, but this depends very much on the customer's current loans and financial situation. It is certainly not a magical panacea.
So, as a summary of what I mean: instead of using Primerica wording for explanation of products, such as "The Industry", perhaps Wikipedia should use more correct and more neutral terms such as "traditional financial institutions," etc. Primerica's products do differ in many important ways from traditional banking and yes, this article should say so and explain it. But having been through many Primerica meetings, this article sounds a lot like them, not like an encyclopedia.
I'll think about the $MART loan section, post it here later, and see what people think. Perhaps even an example would be great for showing how it can work differently from traditional financing, with a ficitional customer etc. Anyone good at graphs? Gaviidae 10:16, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
You are all very intelligent and have impressed me with your strong vocabulary and ademant concern for this organization, perhaps finding something better to do with your time... and mine. - B-Rizzle (Time-Waster) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.226.66.208 ( talk • contribs).
---The main page needs some serious cleaning up and editing. The addition of the SEC suit against Primerica because a few moron RVP's concocted a ponzi scheme needs to be clarified and explained as such. The time that this event occured was soon after Art Williams sold the company. During this time, the company lost roughly 150,000 representatives, and a very few that stayed on took advantage of the company's weakened position to orchestrate a ponzi scheme that ended in their being terminated from the company.
Compliance issues are EXTREMELY important, and are a subject of every leadership school as well as a good sized portion of POL, the training intranet accessible to PFS reps. Part of why some people find it so important to smear PFS as much as possible is because it does things so differently, and because it keeps its standards so high, whenever there's a failure its detractors point, yell, and scream about it. The reality is that 99% of the time, PFS reps do the right thing, and that the 1% where someone screws up, the company works harder on to boost its already industry leading compliance. No company's perfect, but there are few out there that work as hard as PFS's home team does to support the field force and keep compliance higher than the rest of the industry.
I don't mean to embarrass any fellow internet users that detract heavily to PFS, you certainly have the right, but our company crushed the life insurance industry in the 1980's, when they tried to regulate and sue us into oblivion. They lost, we won because we did the right thing for people. Instead of criticising the proven system of success that exists in our company, it's ok to recognize that what we do for families is unparalleled in the industry today. Simply put, there is no better company with higher standards working hard to correct the harm done to average people by the rest of the industry. Have you sat at kitchen tables with a family who's mortgage broker put them in an arm with negative amortization, which will mean they will lose their house in a few years? How about seeing a family paying $400 a month for 4 or 5 VUL's? It's a mess out there in middle America, and with the amount of debt people carry and with foreclosures spiking, the proof's in the pudding.
So, instead of crying about how we have a hybrid system (best parts of the broker/agent, franchise, and MLM systems) and that once in a great while, some moron rep will do the wrong thing and get terminated ASAP, it's ok to write a non-biased article about how the company is really out there to help families. I used the $MART loan to change a family member's life when they'd been rejected for a refinance TWICE because of credit issues. We help people. Don't ever forget that. Brandon----------- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.128.224.163 ( talk • contribs).
We'd prefer a truly objective article. It's not necessary to have a pro-PFS article, just one that states the facts, the REAL facts. The neutrality of the article is debated because of the conflicting statements paragraph to paragraph. Just because a section is called "Criticisms" doesn't mean it needs to throw up all over the rest of the article. It should be noted that the system Primerica utilizes is a Hybrid of the "Broker/Agent" system, the "Franchise" system, and the "MLM" system, and that overrides are a part of EVERY sales organization. The money "flows up" like every other business ever created. It's called p-r-o-f-i-t. Please keep in mind that in a business like Primerica's, most people simply do not work. Statistically speaking, most people never attain much of anything in life, and that's simply a matter of personal drive to succeed as well as the ability to dream. Most people utilize the traditional "corporate job" path, which is widely trodden and therefore not likely to be profitable long term. When they come to Primerica, they have been inundated with the "wrong stuff" for building a business. If they can undo the philosophies that they have been conditioned with that makes them broke every day, they have a chance of pursuing success with PFS. If not, they should stick with what they have and work on improving it by cutting expenses and saving money. We show them both ways and let them decide. The company was founded to give ordinary people the opportunity to do extraordinary things part time.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.128.224.163 ( talk • contribs).
____________________________________________________________
Anazgnos, these entries seem to conflict (in language only, not in attitude). Can you clearly explain what you are bringing to the table in this debate? You appear to be one sided and should perhaps bow out of further editing of this subject.
"I see no mention of Primerica's thirst for infant blood. I'd like to include something along the lines of "Primerica requires fresh human infant blood to grow. Primerica must be stopped. If allowed to continue, Primerica will consume all new infants born in the world." Anazgnos 22:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC" and
"::Can you guys (the primerican drones)...seriously...please...just try to read some of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines before doing anything else on this? Try to get some handle on what NPOV means and what is allowable, and what isn't? Anazgnos 17:26, 31 July 2006 (UTC)"-- Futurethinker 21:24, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
This is ridiculous...I am a mom of two who loves staying at home and enjoying life. I have recently been to a Primerica meeting, and I have come to conclude that this is a do-able venture. Of course, there are downfalls to EVERYTHING! It is true that 90% fail to thrive in this business, but you have to put in time and effort to reep the rewards. I knew from the beginning what the meeting was about. I knew that the front row of gents and ladies were Primerica people. If you did not know, you need to consider a little more schooling on reality. What is wrong with supporting and being passionate about your business? Every business has a pyramid of employees. Starting with the CEO/Owner and trickles down to the common bottom of the line worker. Who can argue with that? I will come back and update when my husband and I have reached $100,000 mark. I will be happy to comment on any wrong-doings or foils if I ever come across such a thing. I have researched and found evidence of success with Primerica. They have been given awards and praises from several companies, such as DALBAR and Standard and Poor. Is this something to be overlooked? I think NOT! I am excited about my opportunity, and all of the negativity coming from these websites have not swayed my opinion thus far. I believe everything has a balance of positive and negatives. This has been proven through science. YIN-YANG...If you live your life being negative towards everything, you will never have peace with oneself. 74.193.187.32 ( talk) 16:49, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
'What is wrong with supporting and being passionate about your business?' Nothing at all, but the above reads like a commercial for Primerica. If that's what everybody called unbiased then I don't even know what to believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.124.14.13 ( talk) 19:52, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
An Associate with Primerica can be viewed as participating in a self-improvement program with a heck of a compensation package in the back end. Some books that associates are encouraged to read are: "Think Like a Winner" by Dr. Walter Staples, "Success is not an Accident" by Tommy Newberry, "Beyond Positive Thinking" by Robert Anthony, "The Magic of Thinking Big" by David Schwartz, "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill, and "Success is a Journey" by John Maxwell. One other book that is imperative to the structure of Primerica is "The Cash Flow Quadrant" by Robert Kiyosaki.
The most recent book that was brought to the attention of the Associates within Primerica was, "How to Raise Your Own Salary" by Napoleon Hill. This particular book is where Napoleon Hill interviews Andrew Carnegie in the early 1950's about the famous success formula. This book was out of print for years and was recently brought back into print. In this book, Andrew Carnegie explains the four pillars of Americanism and in fact explains what Americanism is.
In addition, a more recent book was written by the founder of A.L. Williams, now known as Primerica. The book called "Coach" by Art Williams, describes in detail the history of Primerica and what the company is based on.
A challenge is set forth to all who have read this message, a dare to take the time and read these books written by the most influential writers, speakers and business men of all times. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mzpotter ( talk • contribs).
Primerica Financial Services has analyzed and revised the Primerica Wikipedia article. We believe Primerica has complied with the policies and guidelines Wikipedia has set forth. Please review for NPOV and consideration in removing the NPOV dispute box tagged to this article. Primerica Financial Services is committed to providing the most accurate and unbiased information to make the Primerica Financial Services article better. -- A1794 14:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm confused. How can User A1794 be unbiased if he's writing about Primerica, on behalf of Primerica? That seems to be the very essence of bias. -- Minaker —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Minaker ( talk • contribs).
As far as I am concerned, User A1794 is an imposter, and is illegally claiming to be a[n authorized] representative of Primerica. The user should point to something on Primerica's official website which authorizes him/her to make such a claim (ironic that he/she removes criticisms of Primerica on the basis of not being cited, while not citing his or her authority to represent Primerica). Assuming, however, that User A1794 is , it is not up to the company to declare the article NPOV, particularly to effectively take one side in an "edit war". -- RealGrouchy 22:04, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Just as an example, I have isolated the following blatantly POV statements from the article. At a bare minimum, they would need a citation, but many really couldn't conceivably be allowable by any stretch.
In each case, you could either a) provide a credible, reputable published source that states any of the above, and quote them directly, b) provide an official Primerca source and preface the statement by saying "Primerica alleges that..." or something similar, or c) remove any such statements entirely.
There are still numerous other POV or unsupported statements in the article. This is just to get you started in the right direction. Anazgnos 04:57, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
In addition to apparently deadlocked NPOV disputes, this article may not meet Notability Criteria for Companies and Corporations, and has been nominated for deletion. Anazgnos 22:05, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I've trimmed down the article to its essentials - what the company is, its history and some links. The section on its products is spam and the section on criticism is unsourced, so it has to go. If you can source it, feel free to replace the information. Aplomado talk 23:03, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Is that, historically, as long as Primerica-people themselves are hovering over this article, every time any criticism gets introduced, there is an effort to neutralize it with the kind of POV language and spam that the article used to be full of, where every criticism is met with a counter-claim and pro-Primerica jargon is inserted to offset, and an edit war generally ensues.
I wouldn't suggest that no criticism should ever be added, but interested parties should at least consider the possibility that the incredibly dry, POV, spam, and crit-free version of the article that has more or less stably persisted for the past few months may be the lesser of two evils. Anazgnos 21:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
The history section goes far beyond what is included in the provided sources. Is there any way that we can verify the material? - Will Beback 22:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
I see an editor has added some sources, which is great, but I'm not sure how we can verify them. Where can one find the "Primerica Financial Services Press Release, July 1, 1992" or the "1983 A.L. Williams Corporation Annual Report"? - Will Beback · † · 21:18, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
This information can be found online - on the Citigroup website. 67.33.128.90 04:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
An editor added this material:
These appear to be straightforward assertions. Do we have any sources about how Primerica awards commissions? - Will Beback · † · 00:29, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Those were my personal experiences with the company when I went there for a "job interview" about 18 months ago. We were presented with a probable six figure income, that was then broken down into numbers that relied heavily on second generation commissions. And that leads to the usual MLM business model that Primerica is alleged to participate in. Now I know that WP has a rule about original research but am not enough of a wikinerd to know if this applies here or not, I just wanted to add something to the section, because how it appears now is pretty silly. A single line of criticism vs. 20 lines of history isn't doing justice to reality. 80.218.90.50 10:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
You are not required to have a team of people beneath you to earn commissions. You would also not expect to run a business without help either. The only employees in the company are located at the home office, all of the agents are independent contractors. The income levels typically mentioned can be duplicated by simply doing "the numbers" like any other business. Commissions are awarded (and taken back) based on sales of products only. Like in the rest of the financial services industry, a commissioned agent receives a portion of the money being sent up. However, in cases such as life insurance, if the insurance is denied or canceled within the first year, the commission is taken from the agent since it was merely an advance, or interest free loan, from the company.
The Commission structure it self will have to be requested from an agent. There are currently no online, publicly available, sites displaying the full table. Rjhancock ( talk) 06:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
See this on the COI noticeboard. MER-C 09:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
What's the deal with User:P747AH. Looking at his edit history, all he's done is deleting criticism from the Primerica page, and went into discussions/flamewars with users who edited the page against his wishes. Also, his first edits were empty edits to User:Primerica which leads to my belief that he's nothing but a paid shill for the company to edit the Wikipedia page to their wishes. He certainly isn't qualified to edit the article because of his association to company described and the resulting neutrality issues. 80.218.90.50 09:45, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Strikes me there are far too many external links here. As soon as the various subgroups and initiatives are individually notable they can have their own articles. Until then the following links appear to violate WP:EL:
Can anybody show why these satisfy :EL? Otherwise they can be removed. Be aware that "they are useful links" is not :EL friendly. Deizio talk 12:47, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Concerning this quote "Primerica has been criticized as a multi-level marketing (MLM) company.[4][5]". I request that it be reworded.
1. The first link reads "More Primerica complaints include allegations that it is a pyramid scheme or an MLM scam". If one is to use this as an authoritative source, Citigroups division should be called an illegal "pyramid scheme" as well. One can find uneducated criticisms anywhere on the web. This link needs to be removed.
2. The definition of a "multi-level" is still developing. If we absolutely must label Primerica a multi-level, at least have the professionalism to avoid marking it as a "criticism". That's unacceptible in an encyclopedia of this caliber. Traditionally, "criticized" multilevels are those that (one way or another) make a profit internally (meaning, a significant amount of the business is done within the heirarchy as opposed to externally, with clients). These multilevels are criticised and likened to pyramids because people are buying from themselves and their upline in hopes of building their business (when obviously, they are the business the multilevel is building!). It's a crafty way to get committed customers. Primerica on the other hand, as cited in the article, has over 6,000,0000 clients and only 100,000 representatives! This fact alone excuses Primerica from being a "criticized multilevel" or likened to a pyramid in any meaningful respects. That's a 60:1 ratio simply assuming all primerica reps are clients! Clearly Primerica is not a "criticized multilevel" where the company is churning out customers. Because of that common misconception and the negativity associated with the word "multilevel" i request that we try and avoid using it unless necessary. If it must, lets at least have the professionalism to dissociate it with criticized multilevels, not associate it. Thanks.
Gnarlyocelot 05:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC) — Gnarlyocelot ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Hey Will, thanks for the response.
72.64.93.89 19:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC) 72.64.93.89 19:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
So, you don't have a source which rebuts the characterization of Primerica as an MLM, then? Anazgnos 21:19, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Gnarlyocelot 02:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Currently the last sentence reads: There have been complaints that some representatives have recruited new members using deceptive job interviews. [6]
I suggest the following amplification.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[6] “ https://pol2.primerica.com/home/ > Compliance > Guidelines and Policies > Policies and Procedures Section 1.4”.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The web address for Flash articles is always the same as the homepage, so the link order is the best we can do. The website is only accessible to agents, but I can do a ‘print screen’ and e-mail it to you. This information is the web form of the Annul Compliance Handbook.
1. “I understand that I do not make any money from recruiting and that earnings are based on the sale of products.”
2. “Each recruit should be personally interviewed prior to an offer of association with Primerica. If the recruit appears qualified, they should be asked to complete and sign the IBA.”
Having considered Primerica for a solid year (I live in the Los Angeles area), I decided to give it my all to see what I could make of it. I learned something that made me quit. My RVP insisted that Primerica is not a Multi-Level Marketing Business, but merely a modified brokerage. The validity of this depends upon whether or not the structure pulls consideration (value or money) from new recruits that is a significant portion of the income of the company. Previous discussions on this page have targeted the $199 Primerica charges as a start-up cost. This is nothing. Forget about it. The liscensing costs the company far more than that. The consideration taken from the new recruit is in the form of clients and referals, which technically costs them nothing, but is invaluable to the business. When a new recruit goes on training appointments, their upline (trainer) has the opportunity to make a sale which, statistically, happens 70% of the time (according to my RVP). That is because of the great products, which I believe are perfectly viable.
In my case, it was impressed upon me that I needed to go through 6 training appointments so that I could be refunded $200 ($1 more than the $199). This sounds like a good deal, but it has an encouraged (though technically not required) stipulation in practice: I am the one that has to find the 6 clients in the target market ($30k - $75k annual income, owns a home, married, has children, age 25 - 45). The training appointments don't count towards my six unless they are with people who satisfy at least four out of five of these requirements. My RVP said that it is not the case that I am required to find my own clients to train with, but my experience proves different. In the six months I have been seriously pursuing this business, I have come to the conclusion that it is not just a requirement, but the "blood of the business" (to quote my RVP directly). Before getting started, the new recruit is required to provide the most valuable thing the business can ask for: warm-market, target-market clients, with the leverage of "helping" their friend (the new recruit) pushing them to seriously consider the pitch. When asked directly, my RVP had to admit that the vast majority of the sales made by the company are done so in this situation.
Because company policy requires consideration (something of value) from its new recruits that is, in fact, the primary source of income for the business, I call it a multi-level marketing business. The business would not survive without new recruits and the clients they bring in. Here is where I draw a line. Is it moral to build a business on the prospect of future business? This is a question with a variable answer. Primerica doesn't technically require anyone to make their money off of recruiting people who bring in sales opportunities for their training sessions, but it is written everywhere in the training materials and repeated emphatically at every meeting. "Recruit, recruit, recruit!" This is the one thing that has bothered me and, apparently, everyone else. I say no, it is not moral to run a business this way because of precisely what I ran into.
I gave it my best shot. I talked to my friends and family. I told them that I was getting started with a company and needed to do some training appointments. You know what they said? Nine out of the ten couples I approached said: "We have been approached by Primerca representatives too many times already. We're not interested." Now, granted, I know a lot of people that are actually very good with their finances already, and truly don't need the Financial Needs Analysis that Primerica offers. What disturbed me was that they had already been approached multiple times. I was told that Primerica only had a 1% share of the market, and saturation (maximum consumer demand) of the market was hundreds of years away in the future. But saturation is the percentage of people who are willing and able to buy the product.
Problem: if Primerica's income is from new recruits and 90% of those recruits fail to continue because they realise it's an MLM, wouldn't the market begin to get filled with people who have gotten wise? Wouldn't people begin to say: "I've heard of you, I know what you do, and I don't think there's an opportunity any more?" I would call that market saturation, wouldn't you? Even if the moral issue of "getting there first" and leaving the members of your business to deal with the real work doesn't bother you, beware that the maximum potential saturation level of Primerica in the financial market is much lower than they would like you to believe. The business model is built to be exponential, creating hoards of ex-primericans. However, the products are sound and useful to a very large market, so the company continues to generate sales. Weird, huh?
In conclusion, I think that Primerica's services are honest and helpful, but that the business model, that of extracting clients and the statistical sales that result from new recruits, is unethical. It isn't fair or honest to the recruit, claiming a blind eye as to whether or not the opportunity really exists. This business might be made ethical in the opinion of some by not using this leverage, but no one who does that makes any money. And that rather kills the point of calling it a "business," doesn't it?
celloscratch@gmail.com 02:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC) http://primerica-the-mlm.blogspot.com/
I removed the citation to Primerica's Corporate Policy (where it states that Primerica forbids MLM schemes), because you need to log in to view it. If we can find a source that states the same thing without needing a login, please post that instead. If not, we can put that citation back in. Thanks. - RomeW 06:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I am employee of Primerica and have been for several years. On a technicality, and in the traditional sense of the word, I am not an employee, but more of, say, a subcontractor. I don't work for Primerica, rather for myself and my family. If I want to make money, I go out and do it. If I would rather sit at home and play video games or fool around online, I can do that as I please.
I have NEVER heard ANYONE in the company say such things as "Government sponsored" when referring to the $199 fee. The fee is basically to make sure the people who walk through the door are there with good intent, not just to have something handed to them. I've seen many people in both the Bricktown and Neptune, NJ offices come and go. Out of the 20 odd people in my class, there are only maybe 3 still around. I've seen people come in working dead end jobs as waiters and go on to make 50+ thousand in a year and I've seen people come in and only manage 5 thousand.
Just like everywhere else you can possibly go, It may not be for you. I sat through six months of meetings and did research online before I even thought about coming up with $199 for the course. Had I been a little more motivated before, I wouldn't have even had to come up with the money in the first place. Like stated before, if you can do 6 presentations (which is a way to train you anyway), you can get your re-inbursement (or if done before your course is scheduled, You'll receive your 200 dollar "re"imbursement to put towards your course).
I have heard of cases where people pressure others to join the company and will definitely be one of the first to say there are bad people in the company and it messes things up for the rest of us. I had a girlfriend when I first started the business who was invited by someone from one of our offices up North. She came in and decided to give it a try. The woman who invited her and was to be her upline lied to her and told her that "the $199 fee needs to be paid in cash". This is a total lie, the lady took her money and took off. She was soon after fired and fined for repeatedly doing this. There was another guy who had friends buy policies and other products from him so he could get to RVP (Regional Vice President), then once he was there all of those policies were cancelled. The company looked into it and he was soon fired and fined as well.
Overall, it is a good place to work, if you don't mind taking risk and working hard. It's NOT for everyone and most of all, NOT A GET RICH SCHEME. I am now located in the Neptune, NJ and we make sure to stress, in every meeting, this fact.
On a side note and my individual experience has been that optimists tend to (but not always) do better and last longer. The pessimists seem to doubt everything from word go and rarely even go past the initial op meeting. This is MY sole opinion and not to be taken as anything more than that.
GangrelNitemare 07:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
have anyone notice the cost of all the financial products of this company? They are consistently higher than anyone else. Why is that you would ask? Ripping people off you might answer. Houston
I was GangrelNitemare, but I lost my login information so I created a new account. Here goes:
1 - Kinslayer, My experiance means nothing to anyone and I know that. There are others who make fantastic money with the corperation and others who find it to be too much of a bother. If you would take a few minutes out of your life and stop reading half-truths and other misinformation on the internet and pick up Money magizine or other magizines of that sort, you'd see that Primerica is in the news for doing a lot of good things. Our name has been dragged through the mud by other insurance companies. We've been noted in several books, unfortunately, I do not have the list of these books, but I will get them up within 2 weeks so you can get your fill of hard facts from third-party sources.
2 - As far as reimbursement of the course fees goes, it's done in a different manner in different teams. When I came into the company, I was in Brick, NJ. There they required you to do the 6 presentations to get that money back. My team, however does it differently. We are (and were when I was in Brick as well) running out of the Neptune, NJ office and we do not give a direct reimbursement of the course fees. Now, if you break it down, even not getting the money reimbursed you are still making out like a bandit. The cost for you to do this on your own in NJ is aproximately $3,000 or more. The way my team goes about the reimbursement (for lack of a better term) is, if you are licensed when you start your training, because you CANNOT earn a commission if you are NOT licensed, you can sign off on half the application, meaning, you will receive half the commission level you are at. I.E. if you are earning 25% commission on life insurance sales, you would instead earn a 12.5% commission. Not bad considering you aren't doing anything more than watching someone else do the work.
The course fees and regulations have recently changed in the state of New Jersey. The course used to be a 40 hour course and renewal of ones license was every 4 years along with proof of 48 hours of continued education credits. The course is now 24 hours, cost is down to $99 dollars for the class, and renewal is every 2 years with 24 hours continued education credits. Continued education is required as laws are changed/added and rules and regulations on the industry are changed/added.
3 - Huston, I suggest you also pick up a book and take a good read. I have had only one case where I could not save someone money on their life insurance. This is ONLY because they purchased a policy and were able to increase the face value to $500,000. Shortly after they increased the face value to half a million, they were diagnosed with heart disease and, at 25 years of age, received a pacemaker. Due to their condition, even their current insurance company couldn't give them more coverage, nor could they obtain a second policy without paying a small fortune.
As the largest company in its field, Primerica would be shut down if it were doing anything illegal. There are thousands of employees - self-employed individuals - in Primerica and, unfortunately, soem are overly aggressive or down right greedy and will attempt to mislead people in an attempt to create business for themselves or to get people recruited. A few years back there was a problem with one of our offices in Woodbridge, NJ where we fired people for taking recruits money. Instead of accepting a check/money order, they lied to the recruits and said they had to pay the $199 in cash and never contacted them again. These people were taken care of swiftly and cannot get their license ever again.
Primerica is a company founded on saving people money and getting them out of debt. The company would not have survived this long without keeping true to this very idea. I will return, as stated, with a few titles for those of you who are willing to get out from behind their computer moniters and read a book so you can get some outside information/opinions on Primerica.
ACaruso84 03:31, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Sadly that sucker is me but I only lost money as I barely invested time in that scheme, they're not lying to you but only blinding you to the facts. Their weekly speeches (more like praise) is aimed at low income people promising them and their like to get out of their torment but the way to achieve it is to aim at higher income people. The structure itself is very much like a pyramidal scheme except this one you can make money but at what cost ? How many hours of hassling do you need to make a sale and for what money exactly ?! They keep a lot from you in those speeches and with all the hidden fees, it comes down to an average salary but drilling people, making dubious sales and cold calls (telemarketing) seems pretty low and should be paid much more to take away your pride. I much prefer practicing a trade which directly help people and the economy rather than scooping between the cracks while annoying people. DynV 03:41, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I have to admit, when i first attended a seminar/company overview, I was curious as to how the business worked. Granted they make you go to a few overviews to fianlly get your answer. But that is only because they are getting a feel for you and to see if you have the determination and drive that the business needs. After attending the 2007 Atlanta Convention, I found that only people with drive and determination to succeed were in attendance. So many people need security and stabilty and a guarauntee that a paycheck will be there on Friday. As with many commission based careers, Primerica IS commission based. I don't understand why people are knocking the business. There are many careers that are commission based but don't offer the oppourtunity to become wealthy unless you work countless hours and put in years and years of work. And the fees explained aren't hidden like you say. Obviously you weren't paying attention during the overview. They clearly list your fees in black and white/plain english. Primerica IS NOT AIMED AT PEOPLE WITH HIGHER INCOMES. It is a service that is greatly needed for middle-class families/individuals who need and seek financial guidance. The once $199 fee has dropped since and is now $99 and covers the entire costs of all liceses associated with the business. That includes Life and health, mortgage and a secruities license. So if you feel like the business isn't for you, you are free to job hunt elsewere. LICENSED AND ALL. PRIMERICA IS ALSO THE ONLY COMPANY THAT DOES GOVERNMENT BACKGROUND CHECKS WITH THE FBI. In no way are you forced to sell a product noone needs or has never heard of. It is strictly for the consumers benefit. Primerica serves you knowledge on how to save and invest your money so you can have a better retirement. Because lets all face the hard core facts... social secruity will be none exsistant in the near future. So for those of you who choose to knock the business, please read the proper literature and evaluate yourself because from my experience, for those who knock it want things to be done FOR THEM and choose not to work hard for their successes. jasminsheree 11:18 pm aug 8, 2007 Jasminsheree 04:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
You also have to remember that the reason you get a commission is because Primerica is the company of Citigroup that sells ALL of Citigroups other comapnies products example: most of the investment type products that Primerica sells is through Smith Barney....Who owns Smith Barney? You guessed it Citigroup. Another example: Primerica offers 1st and 2nd mortgages through Citimortgage, and just incase you didn't already figure it out Citigroup owns that too. Does it seem that a company that has to sell products for its parent company won't telemarket, recruit good salesmen, and create a means to motivate and somewhat keep there employees producing profit? I think not. All the people criticizing a company that helps the most neglected people in the U.S. (the middle class) And why are the so ready to do it so easily? They are trying to create a monopoly on the whole finanical market. I guess no one remembers Carnagie and Rockefeller. Oh yeah! And i guess none of you know that a grandson of the Rockefeller was a former executive of Citigroup...Hmmm He wouldn't follow his Grandpa's footsteps in business practices, do you think he could've help stratigize how the biggest financial company in the world could make even more money? BlueIceUnltd 20:10, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
What a fascinating hypothesis. Too bad the facts don't prop it up. Over the last few years Primerica has switched from selling Citigroup products to selling products like MetLife variable annuities, GE long term care insurance, and Pre-Paid Legal, all exclusively. They no longer market Smith Barney mutual funds. I'm not even sure they exist anymore. Plus, all of the auto and homeowners they offer are outsourced to other underwriters. So, out of all products Primerica offers, only loans and life insurance are actually offered by the parent company. If anything, Citi has been moving away from integration, offloading the mutual funds and spinning Travelers off. Some monopoly. Monkey Bounce 19:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Life Insurance is offered through Primerica Life Insurance, not Citi. The loans are the only real item that is Citi specific. 76.186.202.72 ( talk) 22:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Why is this material being removed? I don't see what policy would call for its removal. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 17:13, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Image:Primerica logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 19:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I deleted the section titled "PFS Superstar - True Born Leader, 'Mr. PFS', 'Best of The Best'" because it's unencyclopedic. I can see from the edit history that this section's been removed & replaced a couple of times, so I wanted to make a note of it here -- it looks like self-promotion, in violation of WP:SOAP, I think. Uncat 06:54, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I've removed these claims, as they have cited http://www.pyramidschemes.com/ as a source. That site, at least as far as I can determine, is a blog, as opposed to a verifiable source. -- Mhking ( talk) 15:47, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Moreover, as near as I was able to tell, that website never once even mentioned Primerica. The reference is either very hidden or isn't there at all. Monkey Bounce ( talk) 23:09, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
When I first looked up this article (probably soon after my own personal interaction with the company), it was composed almost entirely of negative criticism, and now it has evolved into almost entirely unbridled praise (even the "criticism" section attempts to mitigate a past criticism). It seems that this article has been rewritten solely to repair the company's negative reputation. The article as it stands should be deleted and be rewritten from scratch, with better balanced positive and negative points. Wikipedia is not a place for exposés or advertisements. Mal7798 ( talk) 15:31, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
The latest edits remove all reference to the Ripoff Report's current stance on the company while citing them as a critic and cite a 10 year old SEC document as being a "current" investigation. Clearly, someone has an axe to grind against the company and is eager to twist sources any way they can to get the result they want. Monkey Bounce ( talk) 08:49, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
I've protected the article because there's a slow-speed eit war with no attemtps at resolution. Please use this talk page to discuss the article and to agree on improvements. Once some progress is shown we can unprotect it. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 07:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
And within 12 hours of the protection expiring, the edit wars begin again. Monkey Bounce ( talk) 00:13, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't see how the Primerica Convention image gallery really helps to improve this article. I would also argue the 2007 Primerica Convention section is unnecessary, also. For the broad scope of the history section, the 2007 Primerica Convention sub-section, seems too specific and focused. What about previous Primerica conventions? I feel if the convention is going to be mentioned, it should also include past conventions, too. There's enough information about the Primerica conventions to create its own article. But I'm not sure that's needed, either. Regardless, the 2007 Primerica Convention section should be deleted. P747AH ( talk) 02:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
This article needs a *major* rewrite. It is incredibly biased towards the company and uses company pages (or other questionable sources, such as a blog post from Palminfocenter.com) for the vast majority of its references. It used to be much more balanced last year but it's taken a turn for the worst now (I suspect it's agents (which provides a conflict of interest, especially since I see a lot of them on this talk page). I don't have the time to do the re-write at the moment, so I stuck the "Neutrality" and "Advertisement" tags here and restored the "Criticism" section (although I don't like that section as it stands).- RomeW ( talk) 02:56, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
A cursory examination of the 'ripoff report' review, website, and ripoff report shows that it's probably not a reliable source. It seems to be, (at best) a blog where consumers can post complaints of companies, or (at worste) a muck racking website which posts unfavorable reviews and then extorts money from the company to alter them. Either way, it doesn't seem like an appropriate 'varifiable source'. As much as I am loathe to remove information and not have anything to put back in it's place, i'm afraid until a reliable sources can be found, i'm going to remove the entire section. Bigmacd24 ( talk) 22:31, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Good to see such interest in the page, also, kudos to everyone for talking about my edit here instead of just reverting. I kinda agree with Monkey Bounce about removing the whole section, it was my intent to do so yesterday, but the 'citation needed' seemed more convincing last night than it does today. Timberlax's review of the ripoff report describes it as the internet equivalent of 'the national inquirer'. I realize the review that was linked is from 'the president of ripoff report' but i'm not 100% on that making him a reliable source. As for the review apearing journalistic, that's all fine and good, if the reviewer is a reliable source. I'm going to spend a bit of tonight reading up the exact policies regarding this. But I figured i'd drop a note in here first. Bigmacd24 ( talk) 08:42, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm back, and so is the criticism section. Recently edited by Atlas, a new user who's only entry into the encyclopedia is this article. Actually, I kinda like Atlas's take on it, except that my previous objections to the entry still stand. There are currently no verifiable sources in the criticism section, so I think it needs to go. Rome, is the article fair and balanced? Maybe, maybe not, but I think the answer to a bad article isn't another bad section. Are there any reasons we should keep the section based on it's own merits, and not just 'evening out' a theoretical 'npov' meter? Bigmacd24 ( talk) 07:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, I promised myself I wouldn't revert the page again till I got some folks agreeing with me, but I went and did it anyway. The criticism section was restored by user:68.224.139.31 who seems to have copied and pasted the text of the article from the article page and not the code. If we end up going back, please make sure to revert to the earlier version. That said, please don't revert until we have a chance to talk about it. If you feel like it, revert it, and /then/ post in here, and I won't change anything until we get some form of concensus. My reasons for deleting the criticism section are described below, but mainly that the section doesn't cite any criticism. I don't think it's appropriate to have the criticism section without there being criticism from a notable source. Wikipedia isn't a soap box to write reviews of companies, that's what rip-off report is for. Bigmacd24 ( talk) 17:50, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
The IP address making the edits is 12.163.2.10
Look up the IP address at http://geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation and you'll see it originates from Duluth, GA, the same city that Primerica is headquartered out of.
Do a whois on that IP address ( http://www.arin.net/whois/index.html) and you'll find:
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1) PRIMERICA FINANCIAL SRVICES PRIMERIC159-2 (NET-12-163-2-0-1)
These are obviously not NPOV edits, can we get a moderator to step in here and prevent this abuse? Chesspieceface ( talk) 17:53, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
They're removing the entire section instead of using citation-needed smacks of censorship. I've added more sources including established blog news sites.
Chesspieceface (
talk)
18:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons.
–Jimmy Wales [2]
This isn't an objective article on Primerica. It is no more than a glowing corporate history, concocted by Primerica itself. There is alot of valid criticism of Primerica and other MLM's and criticism should be included for an objective look at the compnay. I am not accusing Primerica of being a pyramid scheme, but nonetheless, criticism of the company is warranted and should be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.75.175.18 ( talk • contribs)
When I compare this article to any other article for any other financial services (click on any other brands in the CitiGroup template at the bottom of the page), this article is definitely one of the more developed and well constructed articles. Yet people complain there's no information here?
Then there's the whole criticism section complaints. I looked them up in the history and they sounded like nothing more than the typical juvenile whining and conspiracy theories against big companies. What exactly does Primerica do that piss people off so much? I'm really laughing my ass off here. If these people really got "scammed," then the first thing they should do is go to the authority, not whining about it on Wiki. LoL.
On the other hand, since this organization seems to have existed for over 3 decades... if it IS a scam, it really doesn't make sense that Citi would buy it, and government hasn't closed it down. o.o
Although i do agree with the neutrality check since subjective words like "largest" and "most competitive" are used so often here. Someone should go through it and change the tone to be more objective before removing POV-check tag. Ssh83 ( talk) 18:56, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
In regards to criticism of the company, most complaints come from competition or individuals who either did not understand what they were presented or quit the business with sour grapes. That being said, there are issues around. In my own experience as an Agent for the company, I have come across a few (1 or 2 that I can recall) that were legitimately wronged by their previous agent(s). All and all, you will not find a more compliant company in this industry. The SEC fine that is mentioned and one regulatory fine (Less than $15k) are the only 2 fines I know of ever levied against the company. Rjhancock ( talk) 06:34, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
As Primerica was an important part of Sandy Weill's empire in his drive to build what ultimately became Citibank, why have all the original reference's to Sandy Weill's takeover and ownership of the firm - that were originally listed in the article - been removed? Also, this firm, Primerica specifically, has had a lot of legal troubles with state regulatory agencies, most notably with New York state... Why is there no mention of this? For some reason this article looks as if it has been "cleaned" by someone with an agenda. Even the Sandy Weill article is notoriously bereft of all the criticisms that surrounded him during his career. Is the internet becoming as antiseptic as television? How is it that information disappears like this and who benefits? Seriously, most of this information in here now consists of half-truths, which essentially leaves it as non-truth. This article is in dire need of revision... Stevenmitchell ( talk) 20:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Without being able to do much research, I felt it necessary to add the criticism section, since this company is plagued with controversy over its recruiting methods and aggressive sales techniques. I will do some more research later, but I feel it would be negligent to say nothing of this company's troubled history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chicanery ( talk • contribs) 14:15, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Apparently it was deleted again... I was contacted by this company this afternoon and they do seem to have a very shady background. But the Wiki article seems to have been written by the company! It needs to be unbiased... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.245.234.66 ( talk) 04:43, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Have any of you actually looked at the ripoff report page lately? Don't look at old links, just go the the main website and search Primerica and you will see that ripoff report has changed its tune since it investigated the company. Look at your "sources" regularly and refresh them, or check this link to the article.... http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/229/RipOff0229393.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Minibass ( talk • contribs) 17:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
I sent an e-mail to Ripoff Report suggesting that they have been 'compelled' to change their tune, and challenging the mission and objectivity of their site and purpose. Their sudden and unexplained ingratiation towards Primerica aside, the editorial preamble before each article is unnecessary and detracts from the overall mission of the site. Instead of getting a personal response from Ripoff Report, they copied and pasted a template defending Primerica. I replied back, telling them my concern wasn't with Primerica, and they forwarded my e-mail to a Primerica rep. who copied and pasted another template, with the usual song and dance about the company's accomplishments. Now, while this is all mildly amusing, it's obvious to me that Ripoff Report's new-found opinion on Primerica is mechanical; the true reasons may never be made public. If you're going to consider Ripoff Report as a source, ignore the website's conspicuous disclaimer and focus on the pages upon pages of negative testimonials. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.61.123.189 ( talk) 13:25, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Why was the company logo and picture of CEO deleted? No explanation behind that. -Timberlax 04:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
I changed this once before. Citicorp Trust Bank, fsb no longer services Primerica Loans. They are now serviced by CitiMortgage Directly. Not only was an internal memo sent out about it, it also states as much on the web site for Citicorp Trust Bank, fsb. I will change it back. Rjhancock ( talk) 01:34, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Isn't there a way in the software to block edits by IP address? That way those accounts that are known to vandalize pages for the sake of it can't edit anymore. Or at least put a 15 or 30 day hold on them? It can also be used to block companies from editing their own pages. Rjhancock ( talk) 21:19, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
If Primerica is going to have an "Awards and Commendations" section, it better damn well have a Criticisms section. This business pays its employees in Kool-Aid and training materials. This is nothing more than a bona-fide cult. If someone comes on here and becomes victimized by these Primerica Children of The Corn, then its on your shoulders. I've tried my best. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.61.123.189 ( talk) 20:11, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
"This business pays its employees in Kool-Aid and Training Materials." A) It's employees are paid like any other W-2 employee in a company. B) It's independent contractors are paid on commissions twice a week via a check or direct deposit. The problem with legitimate criticism is that it is hard to come by. Most of the problems you speak of, and choose to spread as misinformation, is directly related to the INDIVIDUAL you were in contact with and not the company. Everyones experience will be different since people are different. And by my counts, for every 1 person with a problem, there are at least 100 people that have been helped. By telling people to stay away, you could be doing more harm than what you claim Primerica is doing. rjhancock ( talk) 23:41, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Primerica has been seperated from Citigroup and is currently in Citi Holdings waiting to either be spun off or sold. Should this be reflected yet or wait until it has happened. As of Jan 14th, the sales force was instructed to start marking Citi off of business cards and marketing materials. rjhancock ( talk) 06:12, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Cheers Nicolas1981 ( talk) 11:37, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
As of right now, Primerica is a Sub of Citi Holdings. What happens next is what I was in reference too. In my opinion, Primerica will be spun back off into its own company like it was before the Consumer Credit merger, but I have no facts to back that up at this time. rjhancock ( talk) 15:02, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Quick update, based on news clippings and internal scuttlebutt, the sale is complete. My thinking is because Citi is suppose to be announcing a $8.3 Billion profit this quarter. The only way they can is by selling PFS. I updated the logo to the current one (and a higher res one). Also, regarding the POV added into the content, if there is little to no negative content from a reputable source, does that still matter? rjhancock ( talk) 06:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
What are the rules for links that lead to subscription pages? I tried going to the one that was added at the Financial Times, even registered to see the article. I was immediately turned away saying I had already exhausted my views this month when I had just signed up 10 seconds before. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rjhancock ( talk • contribs) 14:57, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I should point out though, that the description says Primerica was an under performer. If that is the description of one of only 2 branches of Citigroup that even made a profit last year, then the writer is an idiot (article writer, not user). For reference, Smith Barney was the other one. Both branches are being "sold" as "bad bank business." rjhancock ( talk) 15:11, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I am extremely concerned with the content of this article. It extremely biased in favour of Primerica, containing only positive quotes and references about Primerica, while a quick "google" search on the company reveals a vast majority of negative quotes and references. I suggest that the content of the article should be edited to reflect a less biased point of view. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.169.15.155 ( talk) 17:40, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
That has been under much debate. The thing about the vast majority of that information is that it was posted in a public forum where people have a believed anonymity or from agents from other companies that have a vest interest in taking business away from Primerica. People complain about the recruiting aspect, except that is SOP in virtually every business. People complain about having to pay to join, yet that goes towards background checks and processing and licensing fees. More money is lost than gained. People complain of having a bad experience, well, that happens with ANY company. It is just amplified with Primerica due to over 100k reps vs. about 10k reps at other companies.
I am not suggesting they shouldn't be taken into consideration, but without an actual documented wrong doing by a court, they are simply opinions and can't be included in a Wiki article. rjhancock ( talk) 00:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I've trimmed the long blockquotes from the "Ratings, awards and commendations" section, some of which weren't really relaible sources, and renamed it "reception", a generic heading. Will Beback talk 03:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)