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Are the abbreviations really necessary? I mean most people know e.g. Verhofstadt as Guy Verhofstadt, not as G.M.M.L. Verhofstadt. The same applies for most other PM's. Sijo Ripa 13:37, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't we mention the ethnicity or the native tongue of each prime minister? Meursault2004 ( talk) 00:50, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Great. I'll try to do some research. I think I'll take ethnicity. Meursault2004 ( talk) 10:58, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I just took a look at nl: and they are using language as criterion there. Meursault2004 ( talk) 11:15, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I doubt whether it is a good idea to mention all Belgian Prime Ministers' ethnicities. Nowadays, it is quite clear whether an individual is Flemish or Walloon, but the situation was much more complex in pre-war Belgium, since the Flemish political élite used to speak French. I think it can even be considered an anachronism to make a distinction between "Flemish" and "Walloon" when talking about nineteenth century Belgium. Ivo von Rosenqvist ( talk) 16:04, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
What do you with people of clear mixed ancestries such as Yves Leterme? He speaks both Dutch and French natively although perhaps he self identifies more with the Flemish than with the Walloons. Meursault2004 ( talk) 18:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Reading the English, French and Dutch wikipedias, I've seen that there's a lot of conflicting names among the earliest prime ministers (leaders of government) listed.
This article currently lists:
The article on the Dutch wikipedia says the same thing.
The
article on the French wikipedia disagrees quite significantly:
The "succession box" templates on the pages of the various individuals (on the English wikipedia) suggest the following:
which seems to agree with the French wikipedia's list... but not with the actual text on these same pages (and not as indicated above, with the list page).
A few examples from the articles about the individuals themselves:
In the text, the article for Joseph Lebeau doesn't even mention him as the prime minister, but does say he was the "minister of foreign affairs in March 1831 during the interim regency of Érasme-Louis Surlet de Chokier"
The text for Charles Rogier says "he was Cabinet Chief of Belgium on three separate occasions first from 1832 to 1834...", while the text for Albert Joseph Goblet d'Alviella says "In the newly independent Belgium he became Minister for Foreign Affairs between 1831 and 1834." without mentioning being prime minister.
The Dutch wikipedia article for nl:Etienne de Sauvage says he was prime minister during 1831; the French article fr:Étienne de Sauvage sort of disagrees... but he hasn't even merited an article on the English wikipedia so far, apparently...
From a few external links I find:
http://www.premier.fgov.be/nl/biografie/yves-leterme lists:
http://www.famousbelgians.net/politicians.htm lists:
I don't really understand what this one means when it seems to be listing lots of people on the same line. But it does seem to cover most of the possibilities covered above, in addition to adding Joseph Lebeau in somewhere between de Muelenare and de Theux, which nothing on the wikipedias seems to have mentioned.
I understand that the office of prime minister may not have existed in the same way at this period, but nevertheless can we not find some valid sources for determining consistent statements for each Kabinetsleider / Chef du Cabinet? --
David Edgar (
talk) 19:12, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Belgian kings play a minor role in politics - at least since WW II. It just doesn't make sense to chop the list in pieces, based on their reign. 193.190.253.146 ( talk) 21:21, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Are the abbreviations really necessary? I mean most people know e.g. Verhofstadt as Guy Verhofstadt, not as G.M.M.L. Verhofstadt. The same applies for most other PM's. Sijo Ripa 13:37, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't we mention the ethnicity or the native tongue of each prime minister? Meursault2004 ( talk) 00:50, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Great. I'll try to do some research. I think I'll take ethnicity. Meursault2004 ( talk) 10:58, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I just took a look at nl: and they are using language as criterion there. Meursault2004 ( talk) 11:15, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I doubt whether it is a good idea to mention all Belgian Prime Ministers' ethnicities. Nowadays, it is quite clear whether an individual is Flemish or Walloon, but the situation was much more complex in pre-war Belgium, since the Flemish political élite used to speak French. I think it can even be considered an anachronism to make a distinction between "Flemish" and "Walloon" when talking about nineteenth century Belgium. Ivo von Rosenqvist ( talk) 16:04, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
What do you with people of clear mixed ancestries such as Yves Leterme? He speaks both Dutch and French natively although perhaps he self identifies more with the Flemish than with the Walloons. Meursault2004 ( talk) 18:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Reading the English, French and Dutch wikipedias, I've seen that there's a lot of conflicting names among the earliest prime ministers (leaders of government) listed.
This article currently lists:
The article on the Dutch wikipedia says the same thing.
The
article on the French wikipedia disagrees quite significantly:
The "succession box" templates on the pages of the various individuals (on the English wikipedia) suggest the following:
which seems to agree with the French wikipedia's list... but not with the actual text on these same pages (and not as indicated above, with the list page).
A few examples from the articles about the individuals themselves:
In the text, the article for Joseph Lebeau doesn't even mention him as the prime minister, but does say he was the "minister of foreign affairs in March 1831 during the interim regency of Érasme-Louis Surlet de Chokier"
The text for Charles Rogier says "he was Cabinet Chief of Belgium on three separate occasions first from 1832 to 1834...", while the text for Albert Joseph Goblet d'Alviella says "In the newly independent Belgium he became Minister for Foreign Affairs between 1831 and 1834." without mentioning being prime minister.
The Dutch wikipedia article for nl:Etienne de Sauvage says he was prime minister during 1831; the French article fr:Étienne de Sauvage sort of disagrees... but he hasn't even merited an article on the English wikipedia so far, apparently...
From a few external links I find:
http://www.premier.fgov.be/nl/biografie/yves-leterme lists:
http://www.famousbelgians.net/politicians.htm lists:
I don't really understand what this one means when it seems to be listing lots of people on the same line. But it does seem to cover most of the possibilities covered above, in addition to adding Joseph Lebeau in somewhere between de Muelenare and de Theux, which nothing on the wikipedias seems to have mentioned.
I understand that the office of prime minister may not have existed in the same way at this period, but nevertheless can we not find some valid sources for determining consistent statements for each Kabinetsleider / Chef du Cabinet? --
David Edgar (
talk) 19:12, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Belgian kings play a minor role in politics - at least since WW II. It just doesn't make sense to chop the list in pieces, based on their reign. 193.190.253.146 ( talk) 21:21, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Elio Di Rupo 3.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests December 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 20:12, 7 December 2011 (UTC) |
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Pierre Harmel - 36092X5X22.JPG, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests February 2012
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 22:22, 9 February 2012 (UTC) |