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The photos appear to be lit from the bottom right - this is really quite strange, are there any replacement photos?
The left edge of the 20 pence coin is cut off by the end of the picture.
TheFlyingGerbil 17:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I'd add that these coins don't look like coins actually in use apart from their shape. They're horribly misrepresentative. MatthewFP ( talk) 01:14, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
For what, UK Penny or UK Pound? If the former, this should go with the official abbreviation and not with the information on pence and shillings.
GBX
?
MarnanelAlso, see Talk:Decimal Day for comments about merging content spread across several pages regarding British decimalisation -- OwenBlacker 21:52, Jun 2, 2004 (UTC)
Surely this should be merged with British coin One Pound, any opinions? Boffy b 23:16, 2004 Aug 20 (UTC)
I certainly don't think the articles should be merged — one is about the curency itself, the other is about the coin. I see no reason why there shouldn't be articles about the notes too. The Bank of England's website suggests it's illegal to reproduce British banknotes (even ones that are no longer valid), but [1] and [2] might tell you more. — OwenBlacker 14:11, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)
Before decimalisation, the pound wasn't really divided into 240 pence but into 20 shillings which were further divided. Each new penny wasn't worth 2.4 old pence in any practical sense. You couldn't use a new penny to buy 2.4d worth of goods. Also, what you paid in new pence was, in some case, determined not by precise reckoning in terms of old pence (which after all didn't have a 0.4d coin), but by tables which prescribed rounding. (Was this article written by someone who remembers decimalisation?!) What actually happened was that the pound was divided into 200 parts, each worth one-fifth more than an old penny. The old halfpenny, penny and 3d piece didn't fit this pattern on their own but could be spent individually according to the rounding-table. The 6d, shilling, florin (2s) and half crown (2/6) circulated freely in the new system because they corresponded to values in the new 200-part system. For example, the half-crown was worth 25 of the new units (12½p). Shillings and florins effectively circulate to this day as 5p and 10p pieces. A 20p has been added. The ½p measure was later abolished, so that the pound was then divided into just 100 parts and the 6d and half crown were also useless.
Should this not really be at Ps and this page redirect there? Rich Farmbrough 12:45, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
No, what he is saying is that the currency is the pound sterling and because Wikipedia uses sentence case the title is Pound sterling
Scroggie (
talk) 20:04, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Any idea on what 10 pounds in 1668 is worth today? I'm writing the article on Mumbai which was leased for the figure back then. Nichalp 19:27, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
I found the history section of this article a bit confusing, so I started to work out what the fine silver weight equivalents were. Assuming 5400 troy grains/ tower pound, 65.8 mg/ troy grain: pre-1158 Mercian pound = 349.9g/11.25 troy oz., Henry II pound = 323.7g /10.4 troy oz., Henry IV (1412-21) pound = 215.8g / 6.94 troy oz., 1464 pound = 172.6g / 5.55 troy oz.
That's as far as I got. Anybody want to work this into the article and continue the calculations or perhaps make up a table? It would make this section much clearer. Enon ( talk) 04:11, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
According to the website [ [3]] - In 2009, £10 0s 0d from 1668 is worth £1,270.00 using the retail price index & £15,800.00 using average earnings... — Preceding unsigned comment added by DebashisM ( talk • contribs) 21:07, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
SPICe have quite a good briefing paper on this - (PDF). Among other things, "£1 worth of 1p coins is legal tender but £1.01 is not. £1 and £2 coins are legal tender in Scotland to unlimited amounts." (it's a weird system up here, but there you go - God only knows what the legal basis in NI is like). Shimgray 01:08, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm now delving into the Stair Memorial Encyclopaedia, and goodness it's weird. SPICe seem to be wrong; we're told that -
However, this seems to be a bit out of date - it doesn't mention the £2 coin, except as regards "legal tender by proclamation" for oddities, and cites things like the 1980s commemorative £2 coins. Will investigate further; it's possible that when the £2 was declared legal tender they altered the criteria for what number of coins could be tendered at the same time, but I suspect it's more likely SPICe got it wrong. I don't know, them in their comfortable offices down at Holyrood, it's shocking... ;-)
One note, though - they later mention that:
So were the Bank of England to decide to issue a £1 (or £2?) note again - which is implausible, but not impossible - then it'd be legal tender in Scotland, thus confusing this whole matter even further. (Existing English £1 notes, of course, are withdrawn by the Bank and thus don't count). I think my head hurts, now. Shimgray 01:44, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm thinking it might be best to remove this whole section. Misinformation keeps creeping in and there's a lot of information missing. The Royal Mint Site has the correct amounts for legal tender of coinage. I could re-write the section, but the whole subject is already covered correctly and in detail here. -- ascorbic 11:39, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone know when the £ symbol came into use? Am I correct in thinking that it was formed by analogy from $ ? -- Carl 11:10, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
No, it is much older than the $ symbol. It is simply an ornate letter L for 'libra' (Latin for pound). That dates back to the Roman libra or pound (hence lb for weight) and so a pound of silver.
The article currently says "The pound sign is derived from the original german 'L'". I was about to change this to "...derived from the blackletter 'L'", but then I got to wondering if this is really true. The only mention I've been able to find so far of the £ symbol's history is at http://www.exeter.ac.uk/~RDavies/arian/dollar.html, which just says it's a "cursive capital L with a stroke through it" (though it also mentions that this origin is "well established"). So unless anyone can back this up, I think I'm going to take the "original german 'L'" bit out completely. — Steve Summit ( talk) 03:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
There is surely no LSD abbreviation from which the £ derives. The £ is the black-letter for the Latin word meaning pound. LSD is a fanciful construct. People spoke about pounds, shillings and pence. The £ did not somehow derive from that construct.
The article ought to mention Irish pound, Australian pound, New Zealand pound and suchforth, and when these (a) changed their names and decimalised or whatever, and also (b) when they de-pegged, and why. Morwen - Talk 15:47, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The article on the "Pound sterling", under the section "Following the U.S. dollar", claims, "The U.S. dollar itself was derived from a 5 shilling coin used in the American colonies in the 1700s, hence the value of US$4 per pound sterling in use until then."
This contradicts the article "United States dollar", under the section "Origin of the name _dollar_" (a misleading title since the section describes the origins of both the name and the coin itself), which states, "The United States dollar derives from the Spanish 8 reales coin which was composed of just under one ounce of silver. This coin was popular among American colonists who called it the Spanish dollar, the name having derived from a German coin of similar size and composition known as the thaler. The first dollar coins issued by the United States mint were of the same size and composition as the Spanish dollar and even after the American Revolutionary War the Spanish and U.S. silver dollars circulated side by side in the United States."
I lean toward the Spanish 8-reales version. Comments?
Can't see what "which strictly speaking refers to basic currency unit of sterling, now the pound," means or adds to the definition.
I was taught in college that the American dollar is based on the Spanish dollar which was divided into 8 equal pieces (Pieces of 8). With the American dollar, these 8 equal pieces came to be know as "bits", therefore 1 bit = 12.5 cents. This is why sometimes you hear of a quarter as being referred to as "2 bits".
The article says:
The implication is that the ease of subdivision, which had previously been an argument against decimalisation, became less important due to inflation, and that this was a notable (or even major) reason for the decision to decimalise when we did. Is this really true? It sounds rather unlikely to me. If no-one objects then I may take it out and state that the primary reasons were to simplify arithmetic and to bring the UK into line with other countries. Thoughts? Matt 00:07, 2 December 2005 (UTC).
I don't think it's mentioned in this article, but how many £ equal US$1? I'm just curious. -- 68.37.116.234 23:33, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
"Libra" is Latin for "scales." "Liber" means "pound." I'm correcting the second paragraph. BrianGCrawfordMA 00:47, 31 January 2006 (UTC) Actually should say "Libra", not "Liber" Moofresh 15:50, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Exchange rate WalrusMan118 22:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Contrary to the article you cannot force someone to accept settlement in legal tender.
From the Bank of Englands website, 'Legal tender' has a technical meaning in relation to the settlement of a debt. Simply, it means that if a debtor pays in legal tender the exact amount he or she owes under the terms of a contract, he or she has a good defence in law, if they are subsequently sued for non-payment of the debt. In practice the concept of 'legal tender' does not govern the acceptability of banknotes as a means of payment. This is essentially a matter for agreement between the parties involved.
Jmabel had added The smallest unit of coinage was the halfpenny (pronounced "hay-p'ny") referring to pre-decimal coinage. This isn't true. Immediately prior to decimalisation in 1971, the smallest unit was a penny. The halfpenny had been withdrawn in 1969 (see History of the halfpenny), but was preceded back in time by smaller units, including the farthing, half-farthing and so on (see British coinage article). This is all rather much to put in a single sentence, and as it's discussed at British coinage, I've linked to there instead.
Does anyone have any pictures of the £5 and £50 notes? I think the full currency set would be nice for this article :) Also, is the "Specimin" stamp on the notes required by law for all images depicting UK currency or just because the image is from another source? So next time i come across a 5 or 50 note (not bloody likely!) i'll try and get few pics to stick up here, unless anyone objects. -Benbread 10:46, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Apparently there will be a 1,000 coin minted which will be legal tender http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-06-01/1-000-gold-kilo-coin-marks-queens-diamond-jubilee/ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2153319/Thats-worth-pretty-penny-The-1-000-Jubilee-coin-costs-60-000-buy.html
Wouldn't it be nice if there's a usage/status table to explain the complex situation of all different pound sterling? This is not meant to replace the text completely, but to eliminate some by a condense table.
Attributes:
English notes | British coins | Scottich notes | N. Irish notes | Manx £ | Jersey £ | Guernsey £ | Gibraltar £ | St. Helena £ | Falkland Is. £ | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
England, Wales | LWA | LWA | LR? | LR? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
Scotland | L??* | LWA | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
N. Ireland | LWA* | LWA | LR? | LWA | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
Isle of Man | L?? | ??? | L?? | L?? | LW? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
Jersey | LW?† | ??? | LW? | L?? | L?? | LW? | LW? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
Guernsey | L?? | ??? | L?? | L?? | L?? | LW? | LW? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
Gibraltar | L?? | ??? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
St. Helena | L?? | ??? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
Falkland Is. | L?? | ??? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
*Bank of England notes of under five pounds value are legal tender. But such thing doesn't exist anymore
† See contradiction 1 below
Quotes from individual wiki articles
See also
When I designed the infobox, I intended this attribute to be used for coins that you can demand from a banks for their face value, even though they are rarely seen. Like US$2 and $1 coins, or for coins that are phasing out because of low value. But it was not intended for coins that for commemorative coins which the only way to obtain is to pay a premium. I'm not sure about 25p & £5. Can someone verify? -- Chochopk 00:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
I think the last 25p coin issued was in 1982 for the royal wedding of charles and diana. Its the old pre decimal "crown" denomination, and indeed was still referred to as a "commemerative crown". Though as said before they are obsolete and were replaced by the commemerative £5 coin. Bensonby 11:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
The vertical alignment of the pound coin and £20 note graphics is wonky. These are supposed to be attached to the "Legal tender and regional issues" section, but when you show or hide the TOC, they jump about, overlaying other parts of the text, or leaving a spurious big white gap, or breaking in some other way. I don't know how to fix this... any ideas anyone? Matt 22:18, 31 July 2006 (UTC).
I'm surprised to find that there is no article for the green pound that used to exist in the Common Agricultural Policy before the euro. Does anybody know enough about it to write one? -- Red King 20:01, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
I removed the reference to a hundred pound note in the "rarely used" bracket. It does not exist, put it back in if yo0u can prove it does... see: [ [4]] Bensonby 11:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
ah, apologies... how could I forget the scots!? Bensonby 12:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
i served a customer in Jenners (in Edinburgh) on Sunday 5th October and they paid with English £100 notes, and yes they were genuine Myself0101 ( talk) 10:58, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
The plural of sterling is sterling correct? One would never say 5 pound sterlings, right? If so this should go in the article. - Ravedave ( help name my baby) 22:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
This claim is incredibly bold considering no citation is provided. I will remove it in a few days unless we can find something. — anskas 21:32, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
SEK = 1873 DKK = 1873 NOK = 1875 FIM = 1960 RUB = 1998 GBP = ???? ( Stefan2 15:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC))
A table has been added to the article, giving the exchange rates as at an arbitrary date.
IMO, it is not a good idea in principle to quote exchange rates as at some arbitrary date. It is not sustainable and not encylopedic. An annual average is far more useful.
The historical exchange rates (since 1990) that are given in Exchange rates section of the Economy of the United Kingdom entry, are far more useful. Spikes are smoothed and the reader gets a far better idea of the relative prices and how they move over time. It only needs to be updated once a year and the exact date is not critical.
To discuss, please use template talk:Exchange Rate -- Red King 16:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure if these banks are really the printer. The article of De La Rue says De la Rue prints notes for Bank of England, the Royal Bank of Scotland, Bank of Scotland, and the Isle of Man Government. If that is true, shouldn't we eliminate those from the infobox? -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 10:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the wonderful statement Despite the collapse, the country's monetary authorities have chosen to continue to strengthen the pound's relative price. Evidence of this can be found in the reserves section of the Pink Book, the official Balance of Payments. . This is a really basic error of economics. For details, see Central bank#Limits of enforcement power "Since most Western economies are now considered "open", this essentially means that central banks may target interest rates or exchange rates with credibility, but not both at once." The Bank of England has an inflation rate target, which it controls using interest rates. The exchange rate is a side-effect of this policy, not its purpose. Investors choose to hold deposits in pounds because they get a better interest rate and they believe that the value of their money will not be lost. This demand pushes up the price of the pound on the markets. -- Red King 21:26, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I am from Russia. Recently, in a debate over Darwinism/Creationism, a creationist mentioned that Darwin's image is to be removed from the 10 pound bill because some officials decided that he is a disgrace to Britain, for his theory was proven false. Personally, I think it is a lie. I searched the web and failed to find any mention about that. None the less, I would like to ask the experts, if it is at least partly (even for the smallest part) true? ru:User:Alexei Kouprianov/ User:Alexei Kouprianov. PS Sorry I have no time to log in. 83.149.3.147 18:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
"Uniquely" means that no other country has complex legal tender laws, is this true? -- jmb 11:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I have deleted the statement that quid derives from 'quid pro quo'. There is no evidence, to the best of my knowledge, that there is any connection and in my opinion it is highly unlikely that popular slang would derive from Latin (though not impossible). My own dictionary and Wictionary agree that the origin of 'quid' is unknown. My own suspicion is that the origin may be somehow connected indirectly with the word 'guinea', seeing as quid was used previously for guinea. And do we need to include other slang for pound: nicker, sovereign and sov come to mind? Emeraude 16:42, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Guinea & sovereign aren't synonyms for pound sterling, The guinea/sovereign is always a gold coin. jimmyreno 16 march 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.150.142.48 ( talk) 06:26, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
It would be great to find out where 'quid' comes from. I've not heard sovereign or sov as slang for pounds - where is this used? In the south east of England some old boys used to refer to 50p as "half a bar" though. -- 82.133.79.7 11:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I'd think, if anything, "quid" is like "quint" meaning a quantity of 5, in this case 5 shillings. 24.35.176.158 ( talk) 17:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
This comes from 'Chambers Dictionary of Etymology', from 'Oxford English Dictionary', and 'Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology', for various entries under 'quid'. Quid (something), first appeared in 1606, as a pound currency from 1688, and as something to chew (tobacco) from 1727. There's reference to a part of the US republican party as the 'tertico quid' third something. Other meanings, like AUS 'the full quid' come from acquired meanings, such as £1.
Soverign refers to a gold coin, and like other gold coins, (ducats, dubloons, louis d'or, napoleons, eagles), useful in travel, rather like traveller's cheques are today. The Guinea varied from 20 to 35 shillings, until Sir Isaac Newton stablised it as 21 s. The reference is to the source of the gold. Wendy.krieger ( talk) 11:24, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
Should there be a mention that the one pound bank note is still in use in Scotland? If it is in the article then I must have missed it. -- jmb 01:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Bank notes are also issued from the Clydesdale Bank in Scotland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.31.240.30 ( talk) 14:36, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Question: I have always been told that "Quid" is an (imaginary) unit equal to 21-Shillings -- while the (real) Pound is (or was) 20-shillings. I have older British friends that agree emphatically. Most current dictionaries define "Quid" as equal "Pound." Can folks here clarify? and/or correct the main Wiki information. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.193.73.85 ( talk) 20:05, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
This was finally paid off in the 2006-07 financial year and the intriguing back-story explained in some detail in the BBC documentary Mortgaged to the Yanks. I am unable to cite written sources, so I will leave the editing of the main article to those who can. EatYerGreens 20:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
The mention of quid is far too prominent given the seriousness of the subject. There are many other slang expressions, none of which deserves prominence either. Nicknames belong in the quirkies section. The "depending on the region" is inept and non-encyclopedic.
2/6 is an unfortunate example to show how people spoke about old money. 2/6 might also be called half a crown. A better example would be 2/7, pron. "two and seven".
The so-called original system wasn't duodecimal. Only part of it (the pence and shillings part) was. Not only did shillings (and not 12 of them) comprise a pound, but the penny was subdivided.
Opposition to adopting the Euro in the UK runs much deeper than that the pound is just a symbol of nationalism. Many in the UK are worried that adoption of the Euro will cause problems with inflation seen in the rest of the EU and that Britain will lose control of its economic destiny if the Euro is adopted. There should be greater mention of this. Sloverlord 19:17, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
A "guinea", an obsolete gold coin, first made of gold brought from Guinea, West Africa, had a value of 21 shillings, i.e. 1 shilling more than the pound. The value was written out as £1/10, spoken as "one pound ten" but being in fact £1 and 1 shilling. The "ten" in the £1/10 did not denote ten pence or ten shillings but, as mentioned, was 1 shilling (or 12 pence).
I hesitate to change the above on my own — quoted from the main-page — and would have another of my age or older confirm first. I would not have known how to read '£1/10' as it's conflicted. (It literally says 'pound one shilling ten'). A guinea was ' £1·1·0 ' — we used raised dots vs a full stop when handwriting, as a full stop could potentially be seen as a decimal point, (though it was used sometimes). An alternative would have been to write '£1-1-0', however '£1/10' is in error.
An oblique stroke from upper right to lower left was only ever used with an amount of shillings and pence, (such as '2/7' read 'two and seven', and meaning 'two shillings and seven pence'). This was a short hand form of the older long-s, and as such ' / ' stood for 'solidus', just as 's.' did, i.e. 'shilling'.
Guineas were spoken of as 'a shilling in the pound' meaning that each pound contained one more shilling to make a guinea. In general, however, if guineas were used, such as a price of '3g.' i.e. 'three guineas' then this was often written on paper — especially for purposes of calculating sums — in the equivalent amount of shillings as '63/-' or '63s'. In a similar way, 'half a guinea' would have been expressed as '10/6', (or '10s 6d').
I'm fairly certain the writer intended to express a guinea as ' £1·1·0 ', and this would have been read aloud as 'one pound one (shilling (and no pence))'. -- Christian Gregory 03:56, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
In reflecting on the above regarding 'Guineas', I think where there may be some confusion is that ' / ' is being read as if it were a unit separator, when in the days of £sd, ' / ' stood for shilling in the most simplified form of writing, (but only used when there was a sum of shillings alone or a sum of whole pence and shillings). Again, it was an abbreviated form of the long-s for 'solidus' and meant 'shilling'.
Looking at the quote below:
A "guinea", an obsolete gold coin first made of gold brought from Guinea, west Africa, had a value of 21 shillings, i.e. 1 shilling more than the pound, i.e. it was £1/1/0 (£1 and 1s).
10 June 2007
In the 10 June version of this article, the error is apparent, in that the writer means ' £1·1·0 ' — this could also have been written ' £1-1-0 ' or even ' £1.1.0 ' — however, it could not be written ' £1/1/0 '. No indication after the pound-symbol was necessary, or used, however, if a field were blank, then this would be indicated by a nought. Thus a sum of 'five pounds and tup'ence' would have been written ' £5·0·2 ' but a sum of 'five pounds and two shillings ' £5·2·0 '
There was however, one rarer case where ' / ' could be used with a hyphen to indicate a fraction of a penny, eg. 2s 11-3/4d. (two shillings eleven pence three farthing ... in practice, this was read as 'two, eleven, three where the context would mean it could not be referring to £2·11·3). Such a case only came about when type writers or printers didn't have a single key or symbol to indicate ¼ ½ ¾ , if they did, the amount would have been expressed as ' 2s 11¾d ' .
I'm no writer, and would not do the article justice, or I might tackle editing it myself. I simply remember the structure and day-to-day applications of living with £sd until I was in my teens.
-- Christian Gregory 21:44, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Originally a silver penny had the purchasing power of slightly less than a modern pound.
versus
The pound sterling maintained its intrinsic value etc.
To a layman this sounds like a contradiction. Please rephrase this. Shinobu 12:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
So if the maximum legal tender for 50p's is £10 does that mean that in a shop I could not buy an item costing more than £10 if i paid using ONLY 50p peices? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saiorse44 ( talk • contribs)
The article says:
This strikes me as a bit of a non-sequitur, assuming that the third sentence is supposed to explain the second one. Northern Ireland is not a crown dependency, according to that article, and it's also not part of Great Britain. So why wouldn't it be "United Kingdom pound", so as to include Northern Ireland? -- Trovatore 23:49, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
ISO defines "GB" as being the international country code for the United Kingdom (which includes Northern Ireland). This is different from most other cases, where "GB" instead is an abbreviation for Great Britain (which doesn't include Northern Ireland). ( 212.247.11.153 12:51, 18 August 2007 (UTC))
Its not unique to this situation, GB is used as an offical short hand for the United Kingdom in other fields, such as car markers.( 82.3.44.163 ( talk) 03:57, 30 November 2009 (UTC))
Hi. The infobox says that ATMs dispense £5, £10 and £20 notes, but I have lived my whole life in the UK and I've never seen an ATM that dispense a £5 note. I was just wondering if this was a mistake or if there really are ATMs that do. If so, I'm curious, where? Scroggie 11:51, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I found an ATM in Haltwhistle that dispensed all its cash in £5 notes on Christmas day. Karl 12:06, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
You must be young, Scroggie - when I got my first ATM card 30 years ago we had ATMs which only dispensed one denomination, I remember Lloyds Bank in Norwich had about 3 ATMs dispensing £1 notes and one dispensing £5 inside the main banking hall! That said, it's a long time since I've had a fiver out of an ATM, now. -- Arwel ( talk) 21:14, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
For clarity and consistency, shouldn't this article reside at
British pound sterling?
Dove1950 10:00, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
GBP is used by the UK, the uninhabited British Antarctic Territory (according to that article), the British Indian Ocean Territory, the South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands and the crown dependencies. Some other UK dependencies use custom sets of banknotes and coins with their own currency codes, but pegged at par to GBP. Since GBP is used by areas other than just the UK, this means that GBP is a supranational currency similar to the euro and the CFA francs. The article on euro states just plain "Euro" and not "European Union euro", "European euro" or "Eurozone euro". Similarly, the articles on the CFA frans don't state "Western CFA franc zone CFA franc" etc. Maybe the "British" part should be dropped for GBP too. If an adjective were to be used, which one would that be? "UK realm pound sterling"? "Sterling zone pound sterling"? "UK and dependencies pound sterling"? ( Stefan2 19:22, 18 October 2007 (UTC))
Note: There's a somewhat related discussion at Talk:Renminbi on whether or not it should be moved to Chinese renminbi or Chinese yuan (and populated, it seems, by some of the same editors). -- PalaceGuard008 ( Talk) 05:57, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Adding "British" to the article accomplishes nothing. What could the pound sterling be if it weren't British? If there is no common convention for a more complicated name, then there's no point in using it. Wikipedia does not need to create a consistency that does not exist in the real world.-- Jiang 06:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The former German currency doesn't begin with an English adjective either. The name Deutsche Mark may begin with an adjective, but it's not an English one, and may be unknown to some speakers of English. Still, the article title isn't German Deutsche Mark ("German" being the location adjective, "Deutsche Mark" being the name of the currency). Should GBP and DEM articles get an adjective at the beginning of the article titles? How about TWD? New Taiwan dollar doesn't begin with an adjective, since there's no country New Taiwan. ( 212.247.11.156 ( talk) 08:45, 24 May 2009 (UTC))
I have seen a one pound coin with what appears to be a Welsh dragon on the front. It is dated 1997. Does Wales have diffeent 1 pound coins, or is it a commemorative coin? Welsh coinage isn't mentioned anywhere in the article. Tarcus 21:45, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I've conducted a major rewrite as I found this article to be very poorly constructed. I hope this will serve as the basis for future work on this article. I've removed a few things which struck me as incongruous and limited most of the discussion to the U.K. I hope I've not removed anything useful by mistake.
Dove1950 17:36, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
It says that there are 100 pennies to the pound. Surely that should be pence (or new pence). Penny is the official name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.55.124.2 ( talk) 20:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
The proposal to move this article to
British pound sterling is still on the table. We have "votes" for and against. As I stated above, I support it as this article only deals with issues with the U.K. and earlier states that came together to make the U.K. It does not deal with the other issues of the pound sterling in the Empire and Crown Dependencies. Hence the need for the word British.
Dove1950 (
talk) 20:37, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
This is the second occurrence of the issue: Should the name of the country always occur in the title a currency article?. The same issue has shown up in Talk:Renminbi#Move_to_Chinese_renminbi. Karl ( talk) 13:57, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Recently, the pound has hit all time lows against the Euro, and continues to do so every fortnight or so, surely in the section 'Current Strength' which mentions the pounds recent highs against the dollar, the Euro rate should be noted /mentioned? BBC LINK: [7] Umbongo91 ( talk) 20:54, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Actually, it would be really great if somebody knowledgeable would update the current strength section to reflect the actual current strength. It is the end of 2008, and a lot has happened that is not reflected in that section. Then again, if that section isn't going to be regularly updated, maybe it shouldn't exist at all. Jo7hs2 ( talk) 21:56, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I notice that the article states the types of GDP currency as including £100 notes. When I asked at my bank for one they categorically informed me the UK does not issue £100 notes. I would be interested to know who is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.113.20.178 ( talk) 13:39, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
The Bank of England does not issue £100 notes, but some of the banks allowed to issue notes in Scotland and Northrn Ireland do, and possibly some territories. See the articel Banknotes of the pound sterling —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tarcus ( talk • contribs) 05:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
In 1990 I got £700 from my bank as 5x£100 notes and 4x£50 notes. I got them in Scotland, from a Scottish bank, and they were drawn on the Bank of England (which I did not object to, because I was getting money to buy something in England).
Contrary to the preceding comment, the Bank of England has certainly issued £100 notes in the past, and pending me visiting the bank tomorrow to check, I'm pretty sure that the BoE still does. Certainly I routinely carry thick wads of notes rich in Scottish £100 notes, because they're thinner than the same wads of £50s. Many shops will cavil at a £50 ; even more will cavil at a £100, and even more more at a Scottish £100 in an English shop. Which is why I got English £100s ; don't need the extra hassle for a planned purchase.
ISTR that the BoE had a counterfeiting problem in the early '00s which led to a general collapse of confidence in the higher-denomination BoE bank notes. -- A Karley ( talk) 23:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
This is another case of people conflating "England" and "the UK". The Bank of Scotland, Royal Bank of Scotland, Clydesdale Bank, Northern Bank, and First Trust Bank all issue £100 notes, though the Bank of England does not. -- Arwel ( talk) 08:07, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Following the discovery of a Manx pound in my wifes purse after today's shopping, I was trying to track down a picture for comparison, to check that I'd got the identification right. The wife is moderately interested in such variations, so we're keeping the coin. But it's rather worn on the head side - not a good example - but if necessary I could get some photos of this and various other examples. If anyone is interested in documenting these other forms, drop me a message through my user page. I check it for comments every couple of months.
A Karley ( talk) 23:21, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 19:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
The recent anon users changing the frequently/infrequently used banknotes attracted my attention to the fact that £1 notes are down as being frequently used. I wouldn't have said that this was true any more. Having worked in retail I can say that I have had many times more customers spending £100 notes than £1 notes. Though you do see them sometimes. Anyway I would "be bold" but since there seems to be something of an edit war going on as to whether £50 notes are common or not I didn't want to get in the middle of that. Once this has been settled perhaps someone would change £1 notes. Scroggie ( talk) 23:33, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
The "Historical subdivisions of the pound" table and some of the associated detail in the "Subdivisions and other units" seems to be primarily about coinage. There is already a coinage section in this article, and a dedicated article all about coinage, so do we really need this here too? Should we merge it to the other sections and keep this section brief? 86.133.247.82 ( talk) 02:35, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Although this sentence seems to have been copied almost verbatim (oops) from the Encyclopaedia Britannica, per the reference I just added, I'm not sure if it's correct. Lots of sources say that the term "sterling" (or "esterling") did not come into use until after the Norman conquest — either 12th or 13th century. The etymology section at Sterling silver seems to agree. I think an expert needs to review this whole paragraph. 81.152.169.30 ( talk) 17:42, 13 April 2008 (UTC).
Where have the rarely used coins and banknotes gone? Has there been a decision to remove this from the infobox? I couldn't see anything on the Talk page. Scroggie ( talk) 18:30, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
This page needs splitting into two pages. Pound sterling like the monetary system in the U.S. ( Federal Reserve System) and the Great British Pound (GBP) the currency in your pocket like the United States dollar. Mr Taz ( talk) 18:36, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't agree, the currency in my pocket is the pound sterling (that's what the banknotes say). As for GBP it is just the ISO code, it isn't called the Great British pound since it is the same currency as the English pound and the United Kingdom pound, the real name is the pound sterling. Surely, the equivalent of the American Federal Reserve is the Bank of England as I understand it. Scroggie ( talk) 21:58, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
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Could there be some discussion of the expression "sound as a pound". The fact that this expression is used even outside of Anglo countries shows that the world considers the pound to be the epitome of stable, strong currency. Moly 22:53, 15 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moly ( talk • contribs)
What exactly is that? Am I missing something? I don't think the article explained it. It makes references to a "10/- banknote". Is it an abbreviation for £10? -- 24.21.149.124 ( talk) 06:22, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
Why do the frequently used notes link to the Bank of England issues? Perhaps the English notes are the most commonly used but I don't think that is what is meant. If it is, then it should say "£5 (BoE issue)" for example. At the moment its a bit of an Easter Egg. "£5" doesn't necessarily imply the BoE issue. Since there isn't an article or even section of an article talking about the £5 note, perhaps no link is needed. Scroggie ( talk) 20:49, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Did it come from Stater? http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=sterling&searchmode=none Böri ( talk) 14:39, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Just noticed that the copyright for "File:Bank Of England10.png" (the £10 specimen note in Banknotes section) needs renewal. Willdow (Talk) 09:47, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
An editor wrote ₤ [the £ symbol woth two cross bars] can be used to represent a Guinea. It seems most unlikely that this would never have surfaced before now. It looks like WP:OR at best, a spoof at worst. The symbol (if you can call it one) for a guinnea was always simply gn. I've tagged it as dubious and will delete it very soon. -- Red King ( talk) 23:46, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
From the Wiki: "Sterling is the third-largest reserve currency, after the US dollar and the euro."
"We're not a reserve currency, we're not the United States of America -- we can't take our time with this," Cameron told NPR radio before a meeting with U.S. President Barack Obama. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2024320620100720
Both the Pound Sterling and the Japanese Yen page make the claim that they are the third most traded currency after the dollar and the euro. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MickeyI04 ( talk • contribs) 19:02, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
The Dinar in Serbia dates back in 1214, which makes it: older. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.0.98.229 ( talk) 21:43, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
What about GBp, which seems to be used on stock market?
-- Foxandpotatoes ( talk) 21:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
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The photos appear to be lit from the bottom right - this is really quite strange, are there any replacement photos?
The left edge of the 20 pence coin is cut off by the end of the picture.
TheFlyingGerbil 17:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I'd add that these coins don't look like coins actually in use apart from their shape. They're horribly misrepresentative. MatthewFP ( talk) 01:14, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
For what, UK Penny or UK Pound? If the former, this should go with the official abbreviation and not with the information on pence and shillings.
GBX
?
MarnanelAlso, see Talk:Decimal Day for comments about merging content spread across several pages regarding British decimalisation -- OwenBlacker 21:52, Jun 2, 2004 (UTC)
Surely this should be merged with British coin One Pound, any opinions? Boffy b 23:16, 2004 Aug 20 (UTC)
I certainly don't think the articles should be merged — one is about the curency itself, the other is about the coin. I see no reason why there shouldn't be articles about the notes too. The Bank of England's website suggests it's illegal to reproduce British banknotes (even ones that are no longer valid), but [1] and [2] might tell you more. — OwenBlacker 14:11, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)
Before decimalisation, the pound wasn't really divided into 240 pence but into 20 shillings which were further divided. Each new penny wasn't worth 2.4 old pence in any practical sense. You couldn't use a new penny to buy 2.4d worth of goods. Also, what you paid in new pence was, in some case, determined not by precise reckoning in terms of old pence (which after all didn't have a 0.4d coin), but by tables which prescribed rounding. (Was this article written by someone who remembers decimalisation?!) What actually happened was that the pound was divided into 200 parts, each worth one-fifth more than an old penny. The old halfpenny, penny and 3d piece didn't fit this pattern on their own but could be spent individually according to the rounding-table. The 6d, shilling, florin (2s) and half crown (2/6) circulated freely in the new system because they corresponded to values in the new 200-part system. For example, the half-crown was worth 25 of the new units (12½p). Shillings and florins effectively circulate to this day as 5p and 10p pieces. A 20p has been added. The ½p measure was later abolished, so that the pound was then divided into just 100 parts and the 6d and half crown were also useless.
Should this not really be at Ps and this page redirect there? Rich Farmbrough 12:45, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
No, what he is saying is that the currency is the pound sterling and because Wikipedia uses sentence case the title is Pound sterling
Scroggie (
talk) 20:04, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Any idea on what 10 pounds in 1668 is worth today? I'm writing the article on Mumbai which was leased for the figure back then. Nichalp 19:27, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
I found the history section of this article a bit confusing, so I started to work out what the fine silver weight equivalents were. Assuming 5400 troy grains/ tower pound, 65.8 mg/ troy grain: pre-1158 Mercian pound = 349.9g/11.25 troy oz., Henry II pound = 323.7g /10.4 troy oz., Henry IV (1412-21) pound = 215.8g / 6.94 troy oz., 1464 pound = 172.6g / 5.55 troy oz.
That's as far as I got. Anybody want to work this into the article and continue the calculations or perhaps make up a table? It would make this section much clearer. Enon ( talk) 04:11, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
According to the website [ [3]] - In 2009, £10 0s 0d from 1668 is worth £1,270.00 using the retail price index & £15,800.00 using average earnings... — Preceding unsigned comment added by DebashisM ( talk • contribs) 21:07, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
SPICe have quite a good briefing paper on this - (PDF). Among other things, "£1 worth of 1p coins is legal tender but £1.01 is not. £1 and £2 coins are legal tender in Scotland to unlimited amounts." (it's a weird system up here, but there you go - God only knows what the legal basis in NI is like). Shimgray 01:08, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm now delving into the Stair Memorial Encyclopaedia, and goodness it's weird. SPICe seem to be wrong; we're told that -
However, this seems to be a bit out of date - it doesn't mention the £2 coin, except as regards "legal tender by proclamation" for oddities, and cites things like the 1980s commemorative £2 coins. Will investigate further; it's possible that when the £2 was declared legal tender they altered the criteria for what number of coins could be tendered at the same time, but I suspect it's more likely SPICe got it wrong. I don't know, them in their comfortable offices down at Holyrood, it's shocking... ;-)
One note, though - they later mention that:
So were the Bank of England to decide to issue a £1 (or £2?) note again - which is implausible, but not impossible - then it'd be legal tender in Scotland, thus confusing this whole matter even further. (Existing English £1 notes, of course, are withdrawn by the Bank and thus don't count). I think my head hurts, now. Shimgray 01:44, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm thinking it might be best to remove this whole section. Misinformation keeps creeping in and there's a lot of information missing. The Royal Mint Site has the correct amounts for legal tender of coinage. I could re-write the section, but the whole subject is already covered correctly and in detail here. -- ascorbic 11:39, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone know when the £ symbol came into use? Am I correct in thinking that it was formed by analogy from $ ? -- Carl 11:10, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
No, it is much older than the $ symbol. It is simply an ornate letter L for 'libra' (Latin for pound). That dates back to the Roman libra or pound (hence lb for weight) and so a pound of silver.
The article currently says "The pound sign is derived from the original german 'L'". I was about to change this to "...derived from the blackletter 'L'", but then I got to wondering if this is really true. The only mention I've been able to find so far of the £ symbol's history is at http://www.exeter.ac.uk/~RDavies/arian/dollar.html, which just says it's a "cursive capital L with a stroke through it" (though it also mentions that this origin is "well established"). So unless anyone can back this up, I think I'm going to take the "original german 'L'" bit out completely. — Steve Summit ( talk) 03:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
There is surely no LSD abbreviation from which the £ derives. The £ is the black-letter for the Latin word meaning pound. LSD is a fanciful construct. People spoke about pounds, shillings and pence. The £ did not somehow derive from that construct.
The article ought to mention Irish pound, Australian pound, New Zealand pound and suchforth, and when these (a) changed their names and decimalised or whatever, and also (b) when they de-pegged, and why. Morwen - Talk 15:47, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The article on the "Pound sterling", under the section "Following the U.S. dollar", claims, "The U.S. dollar itself was derived from a 5 shilling coin used in the American colonies in the 1700s, hence the value of US$4 per pound sterling in use until then."
This contradicts the article "United States dollar", under the section "Origin of the name _dollar_" (a misleading title since the section describes the origins of both the name and the coin itself), which states, "The United States dollar derives from the Spanish 8 reales coin which was composed of just under one ounce of silver. This coin was popular among American colonists who called it the Spanish dollar, the name having derived from a German coin of similar size and composition known as the thaler. The first dollar coins issued by the United States mint were of the same size and composition as the Spanish dollar and even after the American Revolutionary War the Spanish and U.S. silver dollars circulated side by side in the United States."
I lean toward the Spanish 8-reales version. Comments?
Can't see what "which strictly speaking refers to basic currency unit of sterling, now the pound," means or adds to the definition.
I was taught in college that the American dollar is based on the Spanish dollar which was divided into 8 equal pieces (Pieces of 8). With the American dollar, these 8 equal pieces came to be know as "bits", therefore 1 bit = 12.5 cents. This is why sometimes you hear of a quarter as being referred to as "2 bits".
The article says:
The implication is that the ease of subdivision, which had previously been an argument against decimalisation, became less important due to inflation, and that this was a notable (or even major) reason for the decision to decimalise when we did. Is this really true? It sounds rather unlikely to me. If no-one objects then I may take it out and state that the primary reasons were to simplify arithmetic and to bring the UK into line with other countries. Thoughts? Matt 00:07, 2 December 2005 (UTC).
I don't think it's mentioned in this article, but how many £ equal US$1? I'm just curious. -- 68.37.116.234 23:33, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
"Libra" is Latin for "scales." "Liber" means "pound." I'm correcting the second paragraph. BrianGCrawfordMA 00:47, 31 January 2006 (UTC) Actually should say "Libra", not "Liber" Moofresh 15:50, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Exchange rate WalrusMan118 22:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Contrary to the article you cannot force someone to accept settlement in legal tender.
From the Bank of Englands website, 'Legal tender' has a technical meaning in relation to the settlement of a debt. Simply, it means that if a debtor pays in legal tender the exact amount he or she owes under the terms of a contract, he or she has a good defence in law, if they are subsequently sued for non-payment of the debt. In practice the concept of 'legal tender' does not govern the acceptability of banknotes as a means of payment. This is essentially a matter for agreement between the parties involved.
Jmabel had added The smallest unit of coinage was the halfpenny (pronounced "hay-p'ny") referring to pre-decimal coinage. This isn't true. Immediately prior to decimalisation in 1971, the smallest unit was a penny. The halfpenny had been withdrawn in 1969 (see History of the halfpenny), but was preceded back in time by smaller units, including the farthing, half-farthing and so on (see British coinage article). This is all rather much to put in a single sentence, and as it's discussed at British coinage, I've linked to there instead.
Does anyone have any pictures of the £5 and £50 notes? I think the full currency set would be nice for this article :) Also, is the "Specimin" stamp on the notes required by law for all images depicting UK currency or just because the image is from another source? So next time i come across a 5 or 50 note (not bloody likely!) i'll try and get few pics to stick up here, unless anyone objects. -Benbread 10:46, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Apparently there will be a 1,000 coin minted which will be legal tender http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-06-01/1-000-gold-kilo-coin-marks-queens-diamond-jubilee/ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2153319/Thats-worth-pretty-penny-The-1-000-Jubilee-coin-costs-60-000-buy.html
Wouldn't it be nice if there's a usage/status table to explain the complex situation of all different pound sterling? This is not meant to replace the text completely, but to eliminate some by a condense table.
Attributes:
English notes | British coins | Scottich notes | N. Irish notes | Manx £ | Jersey £ | Guernsey £ | Gibraltar £ | St. Helena £ | Falkland Is. £ | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
England, Wales | LWA | LWA | LR? | LR? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
Scotland | L??* | LWA | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
N. Ireland | LWA* | LWA | LR? | LWA | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
Isle of Man | L?? | ??? | L?? | L?? | LW? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
Jersey | LW?† | ??? | LW? | L?? | L?? | LW? | LW? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
Guernsey | L?? | ??? | L?? | L?? | L?? | LW? | LW? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
Gibraltar | L?? | ??? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
St. Helena | L?? | ??? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
Falkland Is. | L?? | ??? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? | L?? |
*Bank of England notes of under five pounds value are legal tender. But such thing doesn't exist anymore
† See contradiction 1 below
Quotes from individual wiki articles
See also
When I designed the infobox, I intended this attribute to be used for coins that you can demand from a banks for their face value, even though they are rarely seen. Like US$2 and $1 coins, or for coins that are phasing out because of low value. But it was not intended for coins that for commemorative coins which the only way to obtain is to pay a premium. I'm not sure about 25p & £5. Can someone verify? -- Chochopk 00:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
I think the last 25p coin issued was in 1982 for the royal wedding of charles and diana. Its the old pre decimal "crown" denomination, and indeed was still referred to as a "commemerative crown". Though as said before they are obsolete and were replaced by the commemerative £5 coin. Bensonby 11:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
The vertical alignment of the pound coin and £20 note graphics is wonky. These are supposed to be attached to the "Legal tender and regional issues" section, but when you show or hide the TOC, they jump about, overlaying other parts of the text, or leaving a spurious big white gap, or breaking in some other way. I don't know how to fix this... any ideas anyone? Matt 22:18, 31 July 2006 (UTC).
I'm surprised to find that there is no article for the green pound that used to exist in the Common Agricultural Policy before the euro. Does anybody know enough about it to write one? -- Red King 20:01, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
I removed the reference to a hundred pound note in the "rarely used" bracket. It does not exist, put it back in if yo0u can prove it does... see: [ [4]] Bensonby 11:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
ah, apologies... how could I forget the scots!? Bensonby 12:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
i served a customer in Jenners (in Edinburgh) on Sunday 5th October and they paid with English £100 notes, and yes they were genuine Myself0101 ( talk) 10:58, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
The plural of sterling is sterling correct? One would never say 5 pound sterlings, right? If so this should go in the article. - Ravedave ( help name my baby) 22:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
This claim is incredibly bold considering no citation is provided. I will remove it in a few days unless we can find something. — anskas 21:32, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
SEK = 1873 DKK = 1873 NOK = 1875 FIM = 1960 RUB = 1998 GBP = ???? ( Stefan2 15:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC))
A table has been added to the article, giving the exchange rates as at an arbitrary date.
IMO, it is not a good idea in principle to quote exchange rates as at some arbitrary date. It is not sustainable and not encylopedic. An annual average is far more useful.
The historical exchange rates (since 1990) that are given in Exchange rates section of the Economy of the United Kingdom entry, are far more useful. Spikes are smoothed and the reader gets a far better idea of the relative prices and how they move over time. It only needs to be updated once a year and the exact date is not critical.
To discuss, please use template talk:Exchange Rate -- Red King 16:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure if these banks are really the printer. The article of De La Rue says De la Rue prints notes for Bank of England, the Royal Bank of Scotland, Bank of Scotland, and the Isle of Man Government. If that is true, shouldn't we eliminate those from the infobox? -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 10:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the wonderful statement Despite the collapse, the country's monetary authorities have chosen to continue to strengthen the pound's relative price. Evidence of this can be found in the reserves section of the Pink Book, the official Balance of Payments. . This is a really basic error of economics. For details, see Central bank#Limits of enforcement power "Since most Western economies are now considered "open", this essentially means that central banks may target interest rates or exchange rates with credibility, but not both at once." The Bank of England has an inflation rate target, which it controls using interest rates. The exchange rate is a side-effect of this policy, not its purpose. Investors choose to hold deposits in pounds because they get a better interest rate and they believe that the value of their money will not be lost. This demand pushes up the price of the pound on the markets. -- Red King 21:26, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I am from Russia. Recently, in a debate over Darwinism/Creationism, a creationist mentioned that Darwin's image is to be removed from the 10 pound bill because some officials decided that he is a disgrace to Britain, for his theory was proven false. Personally, I think it is a lie. I searched the web and failed to find any mention about that. None the less, I would like to ask the experts, if it is at least partly (even for the smallest part) true? ru:User:Alexei Kouprianov/ User:Alexei Kouprianov. PS Sorry I have no time to log in. 83.149.3.147 18:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
"Uniquely" means that no other country has complex legal tender laws, is this true? -- jmb 11:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I have deleted the statement that quid derives from 'quid pro quo'. There is no evidence, to the best of my knowledge, that there is any connection and in my opinion it is highly unlikely that popular slang would derive from Latin (though not impossible). My own dictionary and Wictionary agree that the origin of 'quid' is unknown. My own suspicion is that the origin may be somehow connected indirectly with the word 'guinea', seeing as quid was used previously for guinea. And do we need to include other slang for pound: nicker, sovereign and sov come to mind? Emeraude 16:42, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Guinea & sovereign aren't synonyms for pound sterling, The guinea/sovereign is always a gold coin. jimmyreno 16 march 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.150.142.48 ( talk) 06:26, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
It would be great to find out where 'quid' comes from. I've not heard sovereign or sov as slang for pounds - where is this used? In the south east of England some old boys used to refer to 50p as "half a bar" though. -- 82.133.79.7 11:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I'd think, if anything, "quid" is like "quint" meaning a quantity of 5, in this case 5 shillings. 24.35.176.158 ( talk) 17:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
This comes from 'Chambers Dictionary of Etymology', from 'Oxford English Dictionary', and 'Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology', for various entries under 'quid'. Quid (something), first appeared in 1606, as a pound currency from 1688, and as something to chew (tobacco) from 1727. There's reference to a part of the US republican party as the 'tertico quid' third something. Other meanings, like AUS 'the full quid' come from acquired meanings, such as £1.
Soverign refers to a gold coin, and like other gold coins, (ducats, dubloons, louis d'or, napoleons, eagles), useful in travel, rather like traveller's cheques are today. The Guinea varied from 20 to 35 shillings, until Sir Isaac Newton stablised it as 21 s. The reference is to the source of the gold. Wendy.krieger ( talk) 11:24, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
Should there be a mention that the one pound bank note is still in use in Scotland? If it is in the article then I must have missed it. -- jmb 01:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Bank notes are also issued from the Clydesdale Bank in Scotland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.31.240.30 ( talk) 14:36, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Question: I have always been told that "Quid" is an (imaginary) unit equal to 21-Shillings -- while the (real) Pound is (or was) 20-shillings. I have older British friends that agree emphatically. Most current dictionaries define "Quid" as equal "Pound." Can folks here clarify? and/or correct the main Wiki information. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.193.73.85 ( talk) 20:05, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
This was finally paid off in the 2006-07 financial year and the intriguing back-story explained in some detail in the BBC documentary Mortgaged to the Yanks. I am unable to cite written sources, so I will leave the editing of the main article to those who can. EatYerGreens 20:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
The mention of quid is far too prominent given the seriousness of the subject. There are many other slang expressions, none of which deserves prominence either. Nicknames belong in the quirkies section. The "depending on the region" is inept and non-encyclopedic.
2/6 is an unfortunate example to show how people spoke about old money. 2/6 might also be called half a crown. A better example would be 2/7, pron. "two and seven".
The so-called original system wasn't duodecimal. Only part of it (the pence and shillings part) was. Not only did shillings (and not 12 of them) comprise a pound, but the penny was subdivided.
Opposition to adopting the Euro in the UK runs much deeper than that the pound is just a symbol of nationalism. Many in the UK are worried that adoption of the Euro will cause problems with inflation seen in the rest of the EU and that Britain will lose control of its economic destiny if the Euro is adopted. There should be greater mention of this. Sloverlord 19:17, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
A "guinea", an obsolete gold coin, first made of gold brought from Guinea, West Africa, had a value of 21 shillings, i.e. 1 shilling more than the pound. The value was written out as £1/10, spoken as "one pound ten" but being in fact £1 and 1 shilling. The "ten" in the £1/10 did not denote ten pence or ten shillings but, as mentioned, was 1 shilling (or 12 pence).
I hesitate to change the above on my own — quoted from the main-page — and would have another of my age or older confirm first. I would not have known how to read '£1/10' as it's conflicted. (It literally says 'pound one shilling ten'). A guinea was ' £1·1·0 ' — we used raised dots vs a full stop when handwriting, as a full stop could potentially be seen as a decimal point, (though it was used sometimes). An alternative would have been to write '£1-1-0', however '£1/10' is in error.
An oblique stroke from upper right to lower left was only ever used with an amount of shillings and pence, (such as '2/7' read 'two and seven', and meaning 'two shillings and seven pence'). This was a short hand form of the older long-s, and as such ' / ' stood for 'solidus', just as 's.' did, i.e. 'shilling'.
Guineas were spoken of as 'a shilling in the pound' meaning that each pound contained one more shilling to make a guinea. In general, however, if guineas were used, such as a price of '3g.' i.e. 'three guineas' then this was often written on paper — especially for purposes of calculating sums — in the equivalent amount of shillings as '63/-' or '63s'. In a similar way, 'half a guinea' would have been expressed as '10/6', (or '10s 6d').
I'm fairly certain the writer intended to express a guinea as ' £1·1·0 ', and this would have been read aloud as 'one pound one (shilling (and no pence))'. -- Christian Gregory 03:56, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
In reflecting on the above regarding 'Guineas', I think where there may be some confusion is that ' / ' is being read as if it were a unit separator, when in the days of £sd, ' / ' stood for shilling in the most simplified form of writing, (but only used when there was a sum of shillings alone or a sum of whole pence and shillings). Again, it was an abbreviated form of the long-s for 'solidus' and meant 'shilling'.
Looking at the quote below:
A "guinea", an obsolete gold coin first made of gold brought from Guinea, west Africa, had a value of 21 shillings, i.e. 1 shilling more than the pound, i.e. it was £1/1/0 (£1 and 1s).
10 June 2007
In the 10 June version of this article, the error is apparent, in that the writer means ' £1·1·0 ' — this could also have been written ' £1-1-0 ' or even ' £1.1.0 ' — however, it could not be written ' £1/1/0 '. No indication after the pound-symbol was necessary, or used, however, if a field were blank, then this would be indicated by a nought. Thus a sum of 'five pounds and tup'ence' would have been written ' £5·0·2 ' but a sum of 'five pounds and two shillings ' £5·2·0 '
There was however, one rarer case where ' / ' could be used with a hyphen to indicate a fraction of a penny, eg. 2s 11-3/4d. (two shillings eleven pence three farthing ... in practice, this was read as 'two, eleven, three where the context would mean it could not be referring to £2·11·3). Such a case only came about when type writers or printers didn't have a single key or symbol to indicate ¼ ½ ¾ , if they did, the amount would have been expressed as ' 2s 11¾d ' .
I'm no writer, and would not do the article justice, or I might tackle editing it myself. I simply remember the structure and day-to-day applications of living with £sd until I was in my teens.
-- Christian Gregory 21:44, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Originally a silver penny had the purchasing power of slightly less than a modern pound.
versus
The pound sterling maintained its intrinsic value etc.
To a layman this sounds like a contradiction. Please rephrase this. Shinobu 12:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
So if the maximum legal tender for 50p's is £10 does that mean that in a shop I could not buy an item costing more than £10 if i paid using ONLY 50p peices? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saiorse44 ( talk • contribs)
The article says:
This strikes me as a bit of a non-sequitur, assuming that the third sentence is supposed to explain the second one. Northern Ireland is not a crown dependency, according to that article, and it's also not part of Great Britain. So why wouldn't it be "United Kingdom pound", so as to include Northern Ireland? -- Trovatore 23:49, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
ISO defines "GB" as being the international country code for the United Kingdom (which includes Northern Ireland). This is different from most other cases, where "GB" instead is an abbreviation for Great Britain (which doesn't include Northern Ireland). ( 212.247.11.153 12:51, 18 August 2007 (UTC))
Its not unique to this situation, GB is used as an offical short hand for the United Kingdom in other fields, such as car markers.( 82.3.44.163 ( talk) 03:57, 30 November 2009 (UTC))
Hi. The infobox says that ATMs dispense £5, £10 and £20 notes, but I have lived my whole life in the UK and I've never seen an ATM that dispense a £5 note. I was just wondering if this was a mistake or if there really are ATMs that do. If so, I'm curious, where? Scroggie 11:51, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I found an ATM in Haltwhistle that dispensed all its cash in £5 notes on Christmas day. Karl 12:06, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
You must be young, Scroggie - when I got my first ATM card 30 years ago we had ATMs which only dispensed one denomination, I remember Lloyds Bank in Norwich had about 3 ATMs dispensing £1 notes and one dispensing £5 inside the main banking hall! That said, it's a long time since I've had a fiver out of an ATM, now. -- Arwel ( talk) 21:14, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
For clarity and consistency, shouldn't this article reside at
British pound sterling?
Dove1950 10:00, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
GBP is used by the UK, the uninhabited British Antarctic Territory (according to that article), the British Indian Ocean Territory, the South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands and the crown dependencies. Some other UK dependencies use custom sets of banknotes and coins with their own currency codes, but pegged at par to GBP. Since GBP is used by areas other than just the UK, this means that GBP is a supranational currency similar to the euro and the CFA francs. The article on euro states just plain "Euro" and not "European Union euro", "European euro" or "Eurozone euro". Similarly, the articles on the CFA frans don't state "Western CFA franc zone CFA franc" etc. Maybe the "British" part should be dropped for GBP too. If an adjective were to be used, which one would that be? "UK realm pound sterling"? "Sterling zone pound sterling"? "UK and dependencies pound sterling"? ( Stefan2 19:22, 18 October 2007 (UTC))
Note: There's a somewhat related discussion at Talk:Renminbi on whether or not it should be moved to Chinese renminbi or Chinese yuan (and populated, it seems, by some of the same editors). -- PalaceGuard008 ( Talk) 05:57, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Adding "British" to the article accomplishes nothing. What could the pound sterling be if it weren't British? If there is no common convention for a more complicated name, then there's no point in using it. Wikipedia does not need to create a consistency that does not exist in the real world.-- Jiang 06:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The former German currency doesn't begin with an English adjective either. The name Deutsche Mark may begin with an adjective, but it's not an English one, and may be unknown to some speakers of English. Still, the article title isn't German Deutsche Mark ("German" being the location adjective, "Deutsche Mark" being the name of the currency). Should GBP and DEM articles get an adjective at the beginning of the article titles? How about TWD? New Taiwan dollar doesn't begin with an adjective, since there's no country New Taiwan. ( 212.247.11.156 ( talk) 08:45, 24 May 2009 (UTC))
I have seen a one pound coin with what appears to be a Welsh dragon on the front. It is dated 1997. Does Wales have diffeent 1 pound coins, or is it a commemorative coin? Welsh coinage isn't mentioned anywhere in the article. Tarcus 21:45, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I've conducted a major rewrite as I found this article to be very poorly constructed. I hope this will serve as the basis for future work on this article. I've removed a few things which struck me as incongruous and limited most of the discussion to the U.K. I hope I've not removed anything useful by mistake.
Dove1950 17:36, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
It says that there are 100 pennies to the pound. Surely that should be pence (or new pence). Penny is the official name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.55.124.2 ( talk) 20:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
The proposal to move this article to
British pound sterling is still on the table. We have "votes" for and against. As I stated above, I support it as this article only deals with issues with the U.K. and earlier states that came together to make the U.K. It does not deal with the other issues of the pound sterling in the Empire and Crown Dependencies. Hence the need for the word British.
Dove1950 (
talk) 20:37, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
This is the second occurrence of the issue: Should the name of the country always occur in the title a currency article?. The same issue has shown up in Talk:Renminbi#Move_to_Chinese_renminbi. Karl ( talk) 13:57, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Recently, the pound has hit all time lows against the Euro, and continues to do so every fortnight or so, surely in the section 'Current Strength' which mentions the pounds recent highs against the dollar, the Euro rate should be noted /mentioned? BBC LINK: [7] Umbongo91 ( talk) 20:54, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Actually, it would be really great if somebody knowledgeable would update the current strength section to reflect the actual current strength. It is the end of 2008, and a lot has happened that is not reflected in that section. Then again, if that section isn't going to be regularly updated, maybe it shouldn't exist at all. Jo7hs2 ( talk) 21:56, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I notice that the article states the types of GDP currency as including £100 notes. When I asked at my bank for one they categorically informed me the UK does not issue £100 notes. I would be interested to know who is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.113.20.178 ( talk) 13:39, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
The Bank of England does not issue £100 notes, but some of the banks allowed to issue notes in Scotland and Northrn Ireland do, and possibly some territories. See the articel Banknotes of the pound sterling —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tarcus ( talk • contribs) 05:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
In 1990 I got £700 from my bank as 5x£100 notes and 4x£50 notes. I got them in Scotland, from a Scottish bank, and they were drawn on the Bank of England (which I did not object to, because I was getting money to buy something in England).
Contrary to the preceding comment, the Bank of England has certainly issued £100 notes in the past, and pending me visiting the bank tomorrow to check, I'm pretty sure that the BoE still does. Certainly I routinely carry thick wads of notes rich in Scottish £100 notes, because they're thinner than the same wads of £50s. Many shops will cavil at a £50 ; even more will cavil at a £100, and even more more at a Scottish £100 in an English shop. Which is why I got English £100s ; don't need the extra hassle for a planned purchase.
ISTR that the BoE had a counterfeiting problem in the early '00s which led to a general collapse of confidence in the higher-denomination BoE bank notes. -- A Karley ( talk) 23:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
This is another case of people conflating "England" and "the UK". The Bank of Scotland, Royal Bank of Scotland, Clydesdale Bank, Northern Bank, and First Trust Bank all issue £100 notes, though the Bank of England does not. -- Arwel ( talk) 08:07, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Following the discovery of a Manx pound in my wifes purse after today's shopping, I was trying to track down a picture for comparison, to check that I'd got the identification right. The wife is moderately interested in such variations, so we're keeping the coin. But it's rather worn on the head side - not a good example - but if necessary I could get some photos of this and various other examples. If anyone is interested in documenting these other forms, drop me a message through my user page. I check it for comments every couple of months.
A Karley ( talk) 23:21, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 19:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
The recent anon users changing the frequently/infrequently used banknotes attracted my attention to the fact that £1 notes are down as being frequently used. I wouldn't have said that this was true any more. Having worked in retail I can say that I have had many times more customers spending £100 notes than £1 notes. Though you do see them sometimes. Anyway I would "be bold" but since there seems to be something of an edit war going on as to whether £50 notes are common or not I didn't want to get in the middle of that. Once this has been settled perhaps someone would change £1 notes. Scroggie ( talk) 23:33, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
The "Historical subdivisions of the pound" table and some of the associated detail in the "Subdivisions and other units" seems to be primarily about coinage. There is already a coinage section in this article, and a dedicated article all about coinage, so do we really need this here too? Should we merge it to the other sections and keep this section brief? 86.133.247.82 ( talk) 02:35, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Although this sentence seems to have been copied almost verbatim (oops) from the Encyclopaedia Britannica, per the reference I just added, I'm not sure if it's correct. Lots of sources say that the term "sterling" (or "esterling") did not come into use until after the Norman conquest — either 12th or 13th century. The etymology section at Sterling silver seems to agree. I think an expert needs to review this whole paragraph. 81.152.169.30 ( talk) 17:42, 13 April 2008 (UTC).
Where have the rarely used coins and banknotes gone? Has there been a decision to remove this from the infobox? I couldn't see anything on the Talk page. Scroggie ( talk) 18:30, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
This page needs splitting into two pages. Pound sterling like the monetary system in the U.S. ( Federal Reserve System) and the Great British Pound (GBP) the currency in your pocket like the United States dollar. Mr Taz ( talk) 18:36, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't agree, the currency in my pocket is the pound sterling (that's what the banknotes say). As for GBP it is just the ISO code, it isn't called the Great British pound since it is the same currency as the English pound and the United Kingdom pound, the real name is the pound sterling. Surely, the equivalent of the American Federal Reserve is the Bank of England as I understand it. Scroggie ( talk) 21:58, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
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Could there be some discussion of the expression "sound as a pound". The fact that this expression is used even outside of Anglo countries shows that the world considers the pound to be the epitome of stable, strong currency. Moly 22:53, 15 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moly ( talk • contribs)
What exactly is that? Am I missing something? I don't think the article explained it. It makes references to a "10/- banknote". Is it an abbreviation for £10? -- 24.21.149.124 ( talk) 06:22, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
Why do the frequently used notes link to the Bank of England issues? Perhaps the English notes are the most commonly used but I don't think that is what is meant. If it is, then it should say "£5 (BoE issue)" for example. At the moment its a bit of an Easter Egg. "£5" doesn't necessarily imply the BoE issue. Since there isn't an article or even section of an article talking about the £5 note, perhaps no link is needed. Scroggie ( talk) 20:49, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Did it come from Stater? http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=sterling&searchmode=none Böri ( talk) 14:39, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Just noticed that the copyright for "File:Bank Of England10.png" (the £10 specimen note in Banknotes section) needs renewal. Willdow (Talk) 09:47, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
An editor wrote ₤ [the £ symbol woth two cross bars] can be used to represent a Guinea. It seems most unlikely that this would never have surfaced before now. It looks like WP:OR at best, a spoof at worst. The symbol (if you can call it one) for a guinnea was always simply gn. I've tagged it as dubious and will delete it very soon. -- Red King ( talk) 23:46, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
From the Wiki: "Sterling is the third-largest reserve currency, after the US dollar and the euro."
"We're not a reserve currency, we're not the United States of America -- we can't take our time with this," Cameron told NPR radio before a meeting with U.S. President Barack Obama. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2024320620100720
Both the Pound Sterling and the Japanese Yen page make the claim that they are the third most traded currency after the dollar and the euro. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MickeyI04 ( talk • contribs) 19:02, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
The Dinar in Serbia dates back in 1214, which makes it: older. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.0.98.229 ( talk) 21:43, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
What about GBp, which seems to be used on stock market?
-- Foxandpotatoes ( talk) 21:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
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