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I think that the latest changes to the article are very good. Example that Wikipedia works. hhc2, 8 june 03, 16 h
I am thinking about an article "Berlin:Architecture" or such. I'd like to give an overview about some buildings I I find interesting. I'll make a list that I will submit to discussion. hhc2 9 june 03, after matrix reloaded
Thanks for going through the street names and making them look like they should in German. I was going to do this myself but you beat me to it!
User:Rex Germanus has moved this article from Potsdamer Platz to Potsdam Square citing that that is the prevalent name used in English. Initialy Google-testing, as flawed as it is, showed only 993 hits for Potsdam Square to 2 million hits for Potsdamer Platz. So can we get a source for this? 84.145.229.26 11:51, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
I ran a search through Google Books and Google Scholar to see how the topic is referred to. I limited the Books search to publications since 1950 and included "Germany" within the search to cut down on German-language texts.
"Potsdam Square" is an accepted name for the square, but "Potsdamer Platz" is used overwhelmingly more frequently in English language publications. With WP:COMMONNAME in mind... Olessi 15:42, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
You don't get it don't want to get it do you? It's already been proven that there is an established English name. A name, which has more value here than a foreign one. Rex 16:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Statement: There has been an ongoing dispute regarding the correct name for this article. Is Potsdamer Platz (following WP:COMMONNAME) or Potsdam Square (following WP:ENGLISH) the correct one? 20:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
There is no contradiction in WP:NC and WP:UE about this name WP:UE states "If you are talking about a person, country, town, film, book, or video game, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article, as you would find it in other encyclopedias and reference works." In this case the common English name is "Potsdamer Platz". Besides platz means place and in this context means a road junction and public space, but not all platz are square e.g. Mehringplatz. If we were to translate this one then what about all those other places that use the Italian, Spanish and French cognates ( Piazza, Plaza, and Place)? -- Philip Baird Shearer 11:53, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
As far as I could discover the primarly used name for this location, in the English language, is "Potsdamer Platz". Following the naming conventions I'd say that even if there is an rarely alternative name in the form of an English translation of the name, it would be counter-intuitive to use the rarely used name over the primarily used one, just because the former is English and the latter is not. I think that WP:COMMONNAME especially points that out. Otherwise we could simply argue Dora Maar au Chat is not English, let's rename the article to "Dora Maar with Cat", which would be silly. 84.145.242.251 22:06, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I'll go for "Potsdamer Platz". The "Use English" guideline is all about what's most common, i.e. most easily recognisable to the average English-speaking reader. Apparently, that happens to be the German name in this case. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:11, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I would agree that "Potsdam Square" is not widely accepted, as evidenced by the lack of sources using that name for the place. Personally, I've heard of a place called "Potsdamer Platz" - until now I had no idea where or what it was. Had I been wondering, I would have typed "Potsdamer Platz" (or some misspelling of it) into the search box, because that's the name I've seen out in the world somewhere. It's what English speakers usually call it. If you want to argue that "Potsdam Square" is a widely accepted name for the place, you'll need evidence of that. - GTBacchus( talk) 00:53, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
My personal perception is that "Potsdamer Platz" is the name commonly used in English, and the searches done in this talk page corroborate it — see also Amazon.com, with only 15 results for "Potsdam Square", and 3 more using "Potsdamer Platz (Potsdam Square)".
Our naming conventions don't require us to use English words, but to follow common English usage, i.e. to use the names most English speakers are familiar with.
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names): "When a widely accepted English name, in a modern context, exists for a place, we should use it. This often will be a local name".
It clearly says "this often will be a local name". That is, "this often will be a German or French or Italian or Chinese name, which happens to be the one commonly used by English-speakers and English-language publications".
A reverse analogy would be Times Square, which is usually left "untranslated" in other languages ( instead of using Timesplatz, Place du Times, Piazza del Times or any other form). - Regards, Ev 00:16, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
"...What is not refuted is that Europe's first traffic lights were erected here on 20 October 1924, in an attempt to control the sheer volume of traffic passing through."
I refute this.
See the Wikipedia article on
traffic lights or
this website.
Clearly the first European traffic lights were in 1868 in London. They stood in front of the Houses of Parliament and were gas-powered, operated by hand by a policeman (until 1869 when it exploded - the traffic light that is, not the policeman). However, it is possible that the first automatic traffic lights in Europe were on Potsdamer Platz.
Per1892 (
talk)
12:26, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Regards
Tonythepixel Tonythepixel ( talk) 15:28, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
"Only two buildings in the immediate vicinity of Potsdamer Platz did still stand - one complete, the other in a half-ruined fragmented form: the Weinhaus Huth's steel skeleton had enabled the building to withstand the pounding of World War II virtually undamaged, and it now stood out starkly amid a great levelled wasteland, although now occupied only by groups of squatters. A short distance away stood portions of the former Hotel Esplanade [...]"
In fact, they were three. The Voxhaus also had a steel skeleton and survived WW2 slighty damaged (you can see it in some postwar photographs and in Google Earth archive also). The building was repaired and, according to the Bundesrat website, it lasted until 1971. That year it was demolished. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.35.135 ( talk) 00:15, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
The wording of the article is slightly ambiguous - I hold my hands up to that. A major demolition programme was carried out around the time that the Wall went up but for a few years afterwards it's possible to count up to six surviving buildings although most were in a ruinous state. Further down Potsdamer Strasse was the Bayernhof beer palace - this survived until c.1972 as did the Post Office in Link Strasse (very close to the Weinhaus Huth). And the Haus Vaterland was still there until 1976. I'll try to make the article clearer. Tonythepixel ( talk) 20:47, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Potsdamer Platz/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
*Needs a good map showing its position in Berlin.
|
Last edited at 17:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 03:18, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
I think that the latest changes to the article are very good. Example that Wikipedia works. hhc2, 8 june 03, 16 h
I am thinking about an article "Berlin:Architecture" or such. I'd like to give an overview about some buildings I I find interesting. I'll make a list that I will submit to discussion. hhc2 9 june 03, after matrix reloaded
Thanks for going through the street names and making them look like they should in German. I was going to do this myself but you beat me to it!
User:Rex Germanus has moved this article from Potsdamer Platz to Potsdam Square citing that that is the prevalent name used in English. Initialy Google-testing, as flawed as it is, showed only 993 hits for Potsdam Square to 2 million hits for Potsdamer Platz. So can we get a source for this? 84.145.229.26 11:51, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
I ran a search through Google Books and Google Scholar to see how the topic is referred to. I limited the Books search to publications since 1950 and included "Germany" within the search to cut down on German-language texts.
"Potsdam Square" is an accepted name for the square, but "Potsdamer Platz" is used overwhelmingly more frequently in English language publications. With WP:COMMONNAME in mind... Olessi 15:42, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
You don't get it don't want to get it do you? It's already been proven that there is an established English name. A name, which has more value here than a foreign one. Rex 16:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Statement: There has been an ongoing dispute regarding the correct name for this article. Is Potsdamer Platz (following WP:COMMONNAME) or Potsdam Square (following WP:ENGLISH) the correct one? 20:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
There is no contradiction in WP:NC and WP:UE about this name WP:UE states "If you are talking about a person, country, town, film, book, or video game, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article, as you would find it in other encyclopedias and reference works." In this case the common English name is "Potsdamer Platz". Besides platz means place and in this context means a road junction and public space, but not all platz are square e.g. Mehringplatz. If we were to translate this one then what about all those other places that use the Italian, Spanish and French cognates ( Piazza, Plaza, and Place)? -- Philip Baird Shearer 11:53, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
As far as I could discover the primarly used name for this location, in the English language, is "Potsdamer Platz". Following the naming conventions I'd say that even if there is an rarely alternative name in the form of an English translation of the name, it would be counter-intuitive to use the rarely used name over the primarily used one, just because the former is English and the latter is not. I think that WP:COMMONNAME especially points that out. Otherwise we could simply argue Dora Maar au Chat is not English, let's rename the article to "Dora Maar with Cat", which would be silly. 84.145.242.251 22:06, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I'll go for "Potsdamer Platz". The "Use English" guideline is all about what's most common, i.e. most easily recognisable to the average English-speaking reader. Apparently, that happens to be the German name in this case. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:11, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I would agree that "Potsdam Square" is not widely accepted, as evidenced by the lack of sources using that name for the place. Personally, I've heard of a place called "Potsdamer Platz" - until now I had no idea where or what it was. Had I been wondering, I would have typed "Potsdamer Platz" (or some misspelling of it) into the search box, because that's the name I've seen out in the world somewhere. It's what English speakers usually call it. If you want to argue that "Potsdam Square" is a widely accepted name for the place, you'll need evidence of that. - GTBacchus( talk) 00:53, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
My personal perception is that "Potsdamer Platz" is the name commonly used in English, and the searches done in this talk page corroborate it — see also Amazon.com, with only 15 results for "Potsdam Square", and 3 more using "Potsdamer Platz (Potsdam Square)".
Our naming conventions don't require us to use English words, but to follow common English usage, i.e. to use the names most English speakers are familiar with.
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names): "When a widely accepted English name, in a modern context, exists for a place, we should use it. This often will be a local name".
It clearly says "this often will be a local name". That is, "this often will be a German or French or Italian or Chinese name, which happens to be the one commonly used by English-speakers and English-language publications".
A reverse analogy would be Times Square, which is usually left "untranslated" in other languages ( instead of using Timesplatz, Place du Times, Piazza del Times or any other form). - Regards, Ev 00:16, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
"...What is not refuted is that Europe's first traffic lights were erected here on 20 October 1924, in an attempt to control the sheer volume of traffic passing through."
I refute this.
See the Wikipedia article on
traffic lights or
this website.
Clearly the first European traffic lights were in 1868 in London. They stood in front of the Houses of Parliament and were gas-powered, operated by hand by a policeman (until 1869 when it exploded - the traffic light that is, not the policeman). However, it is possible that the first automatic traffic lights in Europe were on Potsdamer Platz.
Per1892 (
talk)
12:26, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Regards
Tonythepixel Tonythepixel ( talk) 15:28, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
"Only two buildings in the immediate vicinity of Potsdamer Platz did still stand - one complete, the other in a half-ruined fragmented form: the Weinhaus Huth's steel skeleton had enabled the building to withstand the pounding of World War II virtually undamaged, and it now stood out starkly amid a great levelled wasteland, although now occupied only by groups of squatters. A short distance away stood portions of the former Hotel Esplanade [...]"
In fact, they were three. The Voxhaus also had a steel skeleton and survived WW2 slighty damaged (you can see it in some postwar photographs and in Google Earth archive also). The building was repaired and, according to the Bundesrat website, it lasted until 1971. That year it was demolished. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.35.135 ( talk) 00:15, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
The wording of the article is slightly ambiguous - I hold my hands up to that. A major demolition programme was carried out around the time that the Wall went up but for a few years afterwards it's possible to count up to six surviving buildings although most were in a ruinous state. Further down Potsdamer Strasse was the Bayernhof beer palace - this survived until c.1972 as did the Post Office in Link Strasse (very close to the Weinhaus Huth). And the Haus Vaterland was still there until 1976. I'll try to make the article clearer. Tonythepixel ( talk) 20:47, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Potsdamer Platz/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
*Needs a good map showing its position in Berlin.
|
Last edited at 17:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 03:18, 30 April 2016 (UTC)