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Emo is not Post-Hardcore. Post-Hardcore is just a genre of music that you can relate to like people do rap. Emo is just a stupid made up emotional phase that really needs to be erased from peoples memories. To call a person "Emo" you must know, That you are also Emo. How? Because you are also one that is emotional. Emo is just a shortened word for Emotional. People that listen to Post-Hardcore or any music genre in that range is not emo, but just an Expressionalist. Karli Jo 05:03, 30 August 2013
emo is more of a branch off of hardcore punk, not hardcore, which are two entirely different things. so no, imho emo did not influence post-hardcore bands enough to have an impact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.254.206.107 ( talk) 03:21, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Literally speaking, emo is post-hardcore, but they are two different styles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.204.92 ( talk) 05:46, 18 April 2009 (UTC) y Rites of Spring would be considered both Post-Hardcore and Emo. The two terms are very related, but Post-Hardcore seems to be a lot broader. RKFS ( talk) 19:37, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
What is the difference between them? I honestly have no idea. I was under the impression that the differentiation lay in the fact that the lyrical themes present in emo music are predominantly personal. Is it a necessity? Does this also a apply to Post hardcore? It is through the personal themes that i was able to identify Rites of Spring as an emo band. But after all they did come to as a result of the hardcore movement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.63.34.43 ( talk) 13:09, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
"Emo" was disregarded by its 'creator'. Besides, you can't really call Big Black, Minutemen or Wipers "emo", can you? -- 190.157.153.179 ( talk) 05:47, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
I saw this article here, and saw that it wasn't very specific about the STYLE of music. It is much different from early Post-Hardcore. I attempted to do this myself, but I do not know whether I need to reference the SOUND of these bands...like, do I really need a source that backs up that these new p-h bands are more melodic and commercial? Thanks for the help~New poster (DeepPurple) 05:02, 22 February 2009 (UTC).
Thanks guys. For the first part of my description (that the 2000's bands are identified as Emo/Screamo I was thinking of using the Screamo page's citation on it, to show that they are often interchangeable, but I do not know how to cite things properly. Can anyone care to help? Sorry, I just got into this, so I need some help and stuff. As for the citations that describe what is called 'screamo' as post-hardcore, I'm sure that if we look hard enough, we will find at least one. Thank for all the help, I shall try and to my best to find those darn citations User:D33PPURPLE D33PPURPLE ( talk) 21:53, 22 February 2009 (UTC).
Oi, just found an article in Rhapsody that describest he 2000's wave as more melodic with sometimes metallic edge. Not only that, but it described this post-hardcore as Emo Post-Hardcore, so I'm going on to post that. I will paste the website here:
http://www.rhapsody.com/alt-punk/emo-hardcore/post-hardcore/more.html
Can someone cite it for me, or tell me how to do it? Thanks! D33PPURPLE ( talk) 22:12, 22 February 2009 (UTC) User:D33PPURPLE
So, rhapsody doesn't count? I would think that a big name company (?) would qualify, merely because it is a big musically commercial company that seems like a defining musical authority, know what I mean? Kinda like AMG...but I suppose if that doesn't count, I can find another one... User:D33PPURPLE D33PPURPLE ( talk) 00:06, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Aight. I'll do that soon as I find time. There HAS to be at least one source... [User:D33PPURPLE] D33PPURPLE ( talk) 00:11, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Can't find any sources...>_>...Ah...would it be okay to cite a source saying that Thrice brought more melody to the Post-Hardcore sound, then cite AMG reviews where they say Emo is a more commercial and melodic type, while the post-hardcore sound is the harsher sounds heard in Post-hardcore? And from there describe the sound? D33PPURPLE ( talk) 18:44, 8 April 2009 (UTC)D33PPURPLE
Where is the source that some how compares Helmet ect from the early 90's to the screemo/emo after NU metal from 2000 on? Labeling it post hardcore is not going to legitimize it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.151.134.79 ( talk) 09:48, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Sooo....we're REALLY going to call bands like Thrice, Thursday, Underoath, and freaking GLASSJAW post-hardcore? I don't think so... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.184.165.20 ( talk) 19:48, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
If you're prepared to delete it, which genre do you propose to switch the bands to? The only definition of post-hardcore at the moment is loud guitar based instrumentation with a mixture of screams and singing. However much people don't like it the 2000's bands fit into that definition. 84.69.227.157 ( talk) 21:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
shouldnt there be stuff about todays post hardcore bands? Like alesana and eyes set to kill? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
222.153.86.79 (
talk)
05:06, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
I added that 2000's section check out the wikipedia pages on those bands if you want a source they will all say POST-HARDCORE the description of the genre is in the music what more of source do you need.
After listening to alot of p-core lately, comparing bands and thinking...
lately alot of people have been calling bands like Alesana, Saosin, and Silverstein emo and screamo (which is a load of bull), and the less ignorant people have been proving this wrong and dismissing these bands as post-hardcore, i'm starting to realize that these bands aren't really that either, some of them are or have melodic metalcore in them, but I don't know what genre they are, if anybody knows, post it here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.133.193 ( talk) 00:17, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
Silverstein without a shadow of a doubt is Post-Hardcore collisions of vocals is your indication.
Saosin Questionable I'm not even sure where to place them but it's not Post-Hardcore I don't even think there was any screaming in the recent Album perhaps one track. Although, doesn't consist of a typical rock vibe.
Alesana More Post-Hardcore than not although as you cleared up the instrumentation can bring out quite a melodic tune. And typically the lead singer doesn't just scream in a post-Hardcore band (Or so I've noticed) as alesana performs quite the opposite. But, I have to admit I do not know this one. -Bliker Blah
Note: Last.fm is quite a reliable source for band/genre placement. It's all based on how many people agree what the band sounds like... So on the more popular bands it's more often than not wrong at least in the opinion of myself.- Bliker Blah
Articles should rely on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.
... if you would have read what I typed on this page you wouldn't of had to state user generated and in my opinion that's what makes the genre placement so reliable it's because it's based off majority vote and it gives numerous. I would agree with what ever the band told me they where over anything else. But, last.fm displays the divrsity in the band through a list of genres. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.209.240.88 ( talk) 06:26, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Anybody want to elaborate on the recent increase in use of the synthesizer and other "Keys" within the genre of Post-Hardcore. I mean to me it's seems as if the New wave of Post-Hardcore is already experiencing Another type of new "wave". Bands That in my opinion seem to be making this wave grow rapidly in popularity would have to be Attack Attack!, Motionless In White, and House vs. Hurricane. Even bands such as A skylit Drive and Scary kids Scaring Kids Have constant use of an electronic instrument although, not making the sound as much of a spectacle as the previous bands listed.
P.S. Not exactly concerned with logging in so just -Bliker Blah —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.209.240.88 ( talk) 19:38, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
I think that most of these bands who are using more synth are "Melodic Metalcore" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.150.244 ( talk) 01:00, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
No, actually...there is a lot of 2000's Post-hardcore (I call it screamcore) bands using electronics lately. It's not a new wave, per-se. I'd say it's just new bands trying to break free of the pack by adding th
I think we should make a page for Electronicore/Synthcore
D33PPURPLE ( talk) 18:38, 8 April 2009 (UTC)D33PPURPLE
I'm already working on it (<-- see this page). The reason that I'm not ready to create the page is because I need to find a reliable source that is dedicated to defining/explaining electronicore itself. While the page contains many reliable references that make significant comments about the style, the focus of the reference is usually a specific band or album. If someone could help me find a reliable reference that focuses on what electronicore is, the page would be complete. Leave a comment on my talk page if you find something useful. -- ♪ ChrisBkoolio ... (Talk) 01:09, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
It is mentioned in the article but only mentions two bands. There are many more well known post-hardcore groups from canada. Protest The Hero is often called Post-Hardcore, Billy Talent is Post Hardcore, Moneen has been called post-hardcore, why aren't these bands in there? There are more too but I can't remember them right now. Can these be sourced and included? I'm terrible with refrences myself so can someone do that? KezianAvenger ( talk) 02:28, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
There are also way more post-hardcore bands from the U.S., Britain, France, Brazil, Venezuela that are not mentioned in the article. I would flag country status as irrelevant unless the origin added something to the music. For example, Brazilian post-hardcore sometimes incorporates Portuguese influence into the music. Saying that Canada has their own supply of post-hardcore bands says nothing that contributes to the article in any way -- at all. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jdgallag84 (
talk •
contribs)
00:28, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Enormous sections like these often breed plenty of edit wars, so it's better that it's not here. Furthermore, it's supposed to be an "artists" section but only lists bands from the 2000s. If you disagree, feel free to add it back but not without discussing it here. TheLetterM ( talk) 22:31, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
I've put back the two last paragraphs in the History section because they are written in a "time line/music style evolution" point of view, describing the more recent trends in this music style. If we add a "various trends" section we should describe and specify all the trends through the history of post-hardcore and not only those two (Electronic & Experimental/Progressive).-- Locopunkie ( talk) 01:39, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Here is a source that actually acknowledges a "new wave" of post-hardcore bands, with bands like Touche Amore, La Dispute, Native, Pianos Become the Teeth, Make Do and Mend. So far it's the only source on this new wave that I can find. This probably shouldn't be added until more sources can be found and more of these bands have stand-alone articles. Keep your eyes open! Fezmar9 ( talk) 20:43, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
On the post-hardcore page it says melodic hardcore is a derivative of post-hardcore. On the melodic hardcore page it says post-hardcore is a derivative of melodic hardcore. Can we get that straightened out? Also, I agree with the need for a rewrite of the "recent trends" section. Most of those bands are more progressive than the rest of today's post-hardcore, but are more similar to an older style of post-hardcore, because of the fact that they don't have as many "pop" music influences. Therefore the "progressive post-hardcore" bands are actually playing a genre that is, arguably, more true to post-hardcore than the popular post-hardcore bands being labelled screamo. I mean how can you have an experimental post-hardcore band if post-hardcore is basically "experimental hardcore". NoremacDaGangsta ( talk) 22:22, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
We need to make a "Hardcore" article. "Hardcore" should not re-direct to "Hardcore Punk". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.60.80.54 ( talk) 00:49, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
This section has been tagged for five months, yet no one has taken the time to address the issues. The information is poorly sourced, but because sources are present it gives the appearance of verification. For example, there are two sources claiming that "experimental and progressive" post-hardcore bands are influenced by At the Drive In, however this band is not at all mentioned in the two sources provided. Most of the information follows that same pattern, a source is present but the source does not verify the claims. The description of electronic hardcore is very vague and leaves several holes. For example, Emery and These Arms are Snakes are two post-hardcore bands that feature synthesizers, however you will probably never find a source documenting these bands as "electronicore" as none exist. Also, a lot of the examples of "electronic" post-hardcore are actually metalcore. The entire section is original research that cannot be verified. And even if it could be verified, acknowledging these styles seems to be the minority view and WP:WEIGHT comes into play. Fezmar9 ( talk) 16:57, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
There were two references in the "2000s" section of this article that were tagged as unreliable. Since I was the one that added these refs, I thought I'd defend their reliability on the talk page. The first one is an interview with Ross Robinson published by Metal Insider. The interview was published by Bram Teitelman, who has also written for Noisecreep [5] and a Google News search suggests he's written for a couple other publications since 2003 as well, including a gig with Billboard. The interview was conducted by Emily Lazar, who apparently has some experience in interviewing based on the intro statement, but I'm not really sure of anything she's done outside of the source in question. And... I also wanted to make a statement about the other ref I used, but it looks like it's a dead link that redirects to an entirely different website now for whatever reason. I'll just go dig up another one. Fezmar9 ( talk) 15:43, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
It seems appropiate that I'd also defend the use and reliability of the Guy Peters' source. It seems that he's worked with this belgian music magazine with more than 500 articles to date, while the site also holds in their archives several interviews with a bunch of notable bands (from what I've browsed, I've seen Bloc Party, Maximo Park and Mogwai in their lists). More notably, one of his concert reviews has been linked from Mike Watt's homepage, along with interviews and reviews of him found in sources such as The New York Times and Billboard. Watt himself seems to me as a reliable third-party source. -- 190.159.187.70 ( talk) 00:37, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Would it be possible to merge the "notable fusions" section? it seems that it has to do entirely with the 2000s, and well, if there's one seeming characteristic of, even earlier post-hardcore groups, is incorporating new influences to their hardcore/post-hardcore sound (ie: Nation of Ulysses and jazz, Refused and electronic music, Fugazi and dub, etc.) So I don't see why should we give some sort of priority to these apparently (and largely unsourced -possibly original research?-, as the "not in citation given" and "unreliable source" tags seem to indicate) notable fusions -- 190.159.187.70 ( talk) 21:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
This article is too reliant on reviews for its sourcing. In fact, few or no reviews at all should be sourced as they are more pertinent to articles on specific albums than to a broad overview of the genre, not to mention reviews are essentially opinion pieces as opposed to proper historical reporting. Additionally the page is awfully bogged down by minutiae due to citing so many reviews for overly specific details. WesleyDodds ( talk) 11:39, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
The trouble with this is that, well, bands like The VSS and Six Finger Satellite were doing some sort of thing like that 10 years before, and just as I've pointed out, this could be considered as part of bands incorporating different influences themselves. And i don't think it should stand as a section of its own, unless historically for the last past years or so there has been a sort of scene that seems to share that common quality (references only point out to those particular cases), like the examples of D.C. and San Diego. Perhaps saying that the genre is influential for the nintendocore style seems important for it's own sub-section, but even so I don't think there's enough material for that to happen. I'm removing the header, but if anyone opposes, please discuss it here -- 190.159.187.70 ( talk) 19:46, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
There's not much out there drawing a connection between post-hardcore specifically and
Nintendocore. It seems to be a genre that mixes 8-bit sounds with really any style at all. Of all the bands listed at
Category:Nintendocore musical groups, none of them mention post-hardcore in their respective Wiki articles. And of the sources linked here, only the
allmusic bio for Horse the Band suggests a direct link between post-hardcore and nintendocore. However, Horse the Band are more commonly accepted as a
metalcore
[6]
[7]
[8]
[9] band anyways. So, the connection between the Nintendocore and post-hardcore is weak. The connection between the only band that is sometimes referred to as post-hardcore and Nintendocore is weak. I do not see a reason to include any mention of Nintendocore in this article.
Fezmar9 (
talk)
00:51, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
Hi everyone. I'm aware that the talk page for the article Post-hardcore is designed to host discussion about that article specifically, but there's something else troubling me. The article Screamo has recently been vandalized heavily. Individuals are removing referenced information, often entire sections. It seems that many resist certain definitions of the term. Anyways, I wish that a few more qualified Wikipedians would watch that page in order to defend it from this sort of activity. If I posted this statement on the talk page for Screamo, well, very few people watch the page so it wouldn't make much of an impact. I don't use Wikipedia as often as I used to, so I don't have time to revert ever vandal's edit. It takes MANY people to keep a page orderly. Thank you for listenning (/reading, actually). -- ♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 03:14, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
I think senses fail should be talked about on here because they're like the best post hardore band out there. oh yeah and hawthorne heights too — Preceding unsigned comment added by SomedayCameSuddenly ( talk • contribs) 01:58, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
The following text keeps being added:
"While post-hardcore is usually confused with metalcore and screamo, they are two completely different genres."
Now, for one, isn't the fact that we dedicate a separate article and post-hardcore isn't a redirect to either of those genres kind of telling that this is a separate genre from those (in spite of perhaps having some connection)? In any case, I wouldn't mind this so much if it was sourced like it's the case of this section in Screamo, which presents a verifiable POV related to the (possibly wrong and vague) usage of the term, but it seems that the statement keeps being added with no sources and just based on the thought that "because x isn't y (even if it's often confused for it), it must definitely be x", kind of incurring in WP:SYNTH. The genre infobox also marks the distinction between post-hardcore and the genres it breeded/influenced/it's related to, so it seems that it's rather pointless, especially for an article intro, unless it was gonna signal something else later in the article.
Unno, seems as a rather silly point to argue about, but what do you guys think? -- 190.157.154.245 ( talk) 02:27, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I've been giving thought to starting up a new article to cover bands affiliated with "The Wave" (e.g. Touche Amore, La Dispute, Pianos Become the Teeth, Make Do And Mend) but it seems maybe it could just be added as a new section in the post-hardcore article. I'm admittedly not actually an expert on how all these bands are affiliated or if there really is any formal affiliation between them, but it seems like a new trend in post-hardcore that has grown in popularity over the past few years. Anyone have any thoughts one way or the other on this? tdogg241 T C 20:07, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
I have notice this has not been edited for the start of the new decade yet. I don't see the point in adding a outdated template since this isn't that significant of a gap, maybe if it goes two years without additions. Just to outline what has happened this year: Four prominant bands Alexisonfire, The Bled, Thrice and Thursday have all broke up/ marked their hiatus. La Dispute, Touche Amore The Blackout, Funeral For a Friend and We Are The Ocean (to name a few) have all released albums. Glassjaw returned with the release of both a compilation EP and a new Extended Play, while Circle Takes the Square after many years released a brand new extended play with a second studio album following. letlive. re-released Fake History in 2011 and it received critical success. All five bands of "the wave" (there inclusion was mentioned in the "the wave" discussion above) are achieving more commercial and international success. Jonjonjohny ( talk) 21:28, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
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Should we add screaming vocals to instruments? As most (if not all) modern post-hardcore bands have screaming. Some of these bands include, The Amity Affliction, Silverstein, Alexisonfire, The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, We Are the Ocean, etc... The list goes on. — ıʇɐʞǝɐdʌɐиƭɐqǝoɟʎouɹqoɐʇ [ talk] 22:35, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
The page doesnt mention Falling in Reverse, Escape the Fate, Pierce the Veil, Blessthefall or Sleeping With Sirens. As all are modern Post-hardcore bands and seem to be really "in" right now and do have massive popularity I think they should at least be mention on the page. 69.29.215.17 ( talk) 23:04, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
While I've not been a part of it, Kid299, 50.247.163.181 and Binksternet have taken part in an edit war as to whether punk rock should be included as an influence. While I have not gone through every source, the specific source that all parties are pointing to, does not cite punk rock as being an influence, instead saying that it is a sub-genre of hardcore punk. Because of this, I'm starting this discussion to explain why I am on Kid2999's side, if Binksternet can not provide a source saying this then I will revert his last edit, however if he can, I will not. Issan Sumisu ( talk) 08:51, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
The question is whether bands like MCR should really be in this article or if they are not rather "Emo". Surely, there is a lot of overlap between the two genres, but there is clear evidence that MCR is more Emo than Post-Harcore. [1] In any case, I doubt that MCR should be in the top paragraph as an example for post-hardcore bands. Putting "The Used" there is even more absurd of course. Marc.1337 ( talk) 20:32, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
References
The source cited does not refer to blackgaze as a derivative of post-hardcore, and the genre itself is not heavily influenced enough by post-hardcore to be called a derivative form of it. Blackgaze is, as its name implies, a direct blend of both black metal and shoegaze. The Guardian article linked doesn't mention post-hardcore as anything other than a comparison to blackgaze's melodic rhythms, among other genres of rock. The article also only mentions a small handful of bands without delving into the history of blackgaze - it doesn't mention the subgenre's original source Alcest or its founder Neige at all - so it should not be considered a credible source of information linking the two musical genres. 70.79.59.95 ( talk) 22:51, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Postcore. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 September 24#Postcore until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
dannymusiceditor
oops
15:50, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Post-hardcore article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Emo is not Post-Hardcore. Post-Hardcore is just a genre of music that you can relate to like people do rap. Emo is just a stupid made up emotional phase that really needs to be erased from peoples memories. To call a person "Emo" you must know, That you are also Emo. How? Because you are also one that is emotional. Emo is just a shortened word for Emotional. People that listen to Post-Hardcore or any music genre in that range is not emo, but just an Expressionalist. Karli Jo 05:03, 30 August 2013
emo is more of a branch off of hardcore punk, not hardcore, which are two entirely different things. so no, imho emo did not influence post-hardcore bands enough to have an impact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.254.206.107 ( talk) 03:21, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Literally speaking, emo is post-hardcore, but they are two different styles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.204.92 ( talk) 05:46, 18 April 2009 (UTC) y Rites of Spring would be considered both Post-Hardcore and Emo. The two terms are very related, but Post-Hardcore seems to be a lot broader. RKFS ( talk) 19:37, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
What is the difference between them? I honestly have no idea. I was under the impression that the differentiation lay in the fact that the lyrical themes present in emo music are predominantly personal. Is it a necessity? Does this also a apply to Post hardcore? It is through the personal themes that i was able to identify Rites of Spring as an emo band. But after all they did come to as a result of the hardcore movement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.63.34.43 ( talk) 13:09, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
"Emo" was disregarded by its 'creator'. Besides, you can't really call Big Black, Minutemen or Wipers "emo", can you? -- 190.157.153.179 ( talk) 05:47, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
I saw this article here, and saw that it wasn't very specific about the STYLE of music. It is much different from early Post-Hardcore. I attempted to do this myself, but I do not know whether I need to reference the SOUND of these bands...like, do I really need a source that backs up that these new p-h bands are more melodic and commercial? Thanks for the help~New poster (DeepPurple) 05:02, 22 February 2009 (UTC).
Thanks guys. For the first part of my description (that the 2000's bands are identified as Emo/Screamo I was thinking of using the Screamo page's citation on it, to show that they are often interchangeable, but I do not know how to cite things properly. Can anyone care to help? Sorry, I just got into this, so I need some help and stuff. As for the citations that describe what is called 'screamo' as post-hardcore, I'm sure that if we look hard enough, we will find at least one. Thank for all the help, I shall try and to my best to find those darn citations User:D33PPURPLE D33PPURPLE ( talk) 21:53, 22 February 2009 (UTC).
Oi, just found an article in Rhapsody that describest he 2000's wave as more melodic with sometimes metallic edge. Not only that, but it described this post-hardcore as Emo Post-Hardcore, so I'm going on to post that. I will paste the website here:
http://www.rhapsody.com/alt-punk/emo-hardcore/post-hardcore/more.html
Can someone cite it for me, or tell me how to do it? Thanks! D33PPURPLE ( talk) 22:12, 22 February 2009 (UTC) User:D33PPURPLE
So, rhapsody doesn't count? I would think that a big name company (?) would qualify, merely because it is a big musically commercial company that seems like a defining musical authority, know what I mean? Kinda like AMG...but I suppose if that doesn't count, I can find another one... User:D33PPURPLE D33PPURPLE ( talk) 00:06, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Aight. I'll do that soon as I find time. There HAS to be at least one source... [User:D33PPURPLE] D33PPURPLE ( talk) 00:11, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Can't find any sources...>_>...Ah...would it be okay to cite a source saying that Thrice brought more melody to the Post-Hardcore sound, then cite AMG reviews where they say Emo is a more commercial and melodic type, while the post-hardcore sound is the harsher sounds heard in Post-hardcore? And from there describe the sound? D33PPURPLE ( talk) 18:44, 8 April 2009 (UTC)D33PPURPLE
Where is the source that some how compares Helmet ect from the early 90's to the screemo/emo after NU metal from 2000 on? Labeling it post hardcore is not going to legitimize it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.151.134.79 ( talk) 09:48, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Sooo....we're REALLY going to call bands like Thrice, Thursday, Underoath, and freaking GLASSJAW post-hardcore? I don't think so... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.184.165.20 ( talk) 19:48, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
If you're prepared to delete it, which genre do you propose to switch the bands to? The only definition of post-hardcore at the moment is loud guitar based instrumentation with a mixture of screams and singing. However much people don't like it the 2000's bands fit into that definition. 84.69.227.157 ( talk) 21:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
shouldnt there be stuff about todays post hardcore bands? Like alesana and eyes set to kill? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
222.153.86.79 (
talk)
05:06, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
I added that 2000's section check out the wikipedia pages on those bands if you want a source they will all say POST-HARDCORE the description of the genre is in the music what more of source do you need.
After listening to alot of p-core lately, comparing bands and thinking...
lately alot of people have been calling bands like Alesana, Saosin, and Silverstein emo and screamo (which is a load of bull), and the less ignorant people have been proving this wrong and dismissing these bands as post-hardcore, i'm starting to realize that these bands aren't really that either, some of them are or have melodic metalcore in them, but I don't know what genre they are, if anybody knows, post it here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.133.193 ( talk) 00:17, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
Silverstein without a shadow of a doubt is Post-Hardcore collisions of vocals is your indication.
Saosin Questionable I'm not even sure where to place them but it's not Post-Hardcore I don't even think there was any screaming in the recent Album perhaps one track. Although, doesn't consist of a typical rock vibe.
Alesana More Post-Hardcore than not although as you cleared up the instrumentation can bring out quite a melodic tune. And typically the lead singer doesn't just scream in a post-Hardcore band (Or so I've noticed) as alesana performs quite the opposite. But, I have to admit I do not know this one. -Bliker Blah
Note: Last.fm is quite a reliable source for band/genre placement. It's all based on how many people agree what the band sounds like... So on the more popular bands it's more often than not wrong at least in the opinion of myself.- Bliker Blah
Articles should rely on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.
... if you would have read what I typed on this page you wouldn't of had to state user generated and in my opinion that's what makes the genre placement so reliable it's because it's based off majority vote and it gives numerous. I would agree with what ever the band told me they where over anything else. But, last.fm displays the divrsity in the band through a list of genres. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.209.240.88 ( talk) 06:26, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Anybody want to elaborate on the recent increase in use of the synthesizer and other "Keys" within the genre of Post-Hardcore. I mean to me it's seems as if the New wave of Post-Hardcore is already experiencing Another type of new "wave". Bands That in my opinion seem to be making this wave grow rapidly in popularity would have to be Attack Attack!, Motionless In White, and House vs. Hurricane. Even bands such as A skylit Drive and Scary kids Scaring Kids Have constant use of an electronic instrument although, not making the sound as much of a spectacle as the previous bands listed.
P.S. Not exactly concerned with logging in so just -Bliker Blah —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.209.240.88 ( talk) 19:38, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
I think that most of these bands who are using more synth are "Melodic Metalcore" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.150.244 ( talk) 01:00, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
No, actually...there is a lot of 2000's Post-hardcore (I call it screamcore) bands using electronics lately. It's not a new wave, per-se. I'd say it's just new bands trying to break free of the pack by adding th
I think we should make a page for Electronicore/Synthcore
D33PPURPLE ( talk) 18:38, 8 April 2009 (UTC)D33PPURPLE
I'm already working on it (<-- see this page). The reason that I'm not ready to create the page is because I need to find a reliable source that is dedicated to defining/explaining electronicore itself. While the page contains many reliable references that make significant comments about the style, the focus of the reference is usually a specific band or album. If someone could help me find a reliable reference that focuses on what electronicore is, the page would be complete. Leave a comment on my talk page if you find something useful. -- ♪ ChrisBkoolio ... (Talk) 01:09, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
It is mentioned in the article but only mentions two bands. There are many more well known post-hardcore groups from canada. Protest The Hero is often called Post-Hardcore, Billy Talent is Post Hardcore, Moneen has been called post-hardcore, why aren't these bands in there? There are more too but I can't remember them right now. Can these be sourced and included? I'm terrible with refrences myself so can someone do that? KezianAvenger ( talk) 02:28, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
There are also way more post-hardcore bands from the U.S., Britain, France, Brazil, Venezuela that are not mentioned in the article. I would flag country status as irrelevant unless the origin added something to the music. For example, Brazilian post-hardcore sometimes incorporates Portuguese influence into the music. Saying that Canada has their own supply of post-hardcore bands says nothing that contributes to the article in any way -- at all. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jdgallag84 (
talk •
contribs)
00:28, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Enormous sections like these often breed plenty of edit wars, so it's better that it's not here. Furthermore, it's supposed to be an "artists" section but only lists bands from the 2000s. If you disagree, feel free to add it back but not without discussing it here. TheLetterM ( talk) 22:31, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
I've put back the two last paragraphs in the History section because they are written in a "time line/music style evolution" point of view, describing the more recent trends in this music style. If we add a "various trends" section we should describe and specify all the trends through the history of post-hardcore and not only those two (Electronic & Experimental/Progressive).-- Locopunkie ( talk) 01:39, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Here is a source that actually acknowledges a "new wave" of post-hardcore bands, with bands like Touche Amore, La Dispute, Native, Pianos Become the Teeth, Make Do and Mend. So far it's the only source on this new wave that I can find. This probably shouldn't be added until more sources can be found and more of these bands have stand-alone articles. Keep your eyes open! Fezmar9 ( talk) 20:43, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
On the post-hardcore page it says melodic hardcore is a derivative of post-hardcore. On the melodic hardcore page it says post-hardcore is a derivative of melodic hardcore. Can we get that straightened out? Also, I agree with the need for a rewrite of the "recent trends" section. Most of those bands are more progressive than the rest of today's post-hardcore, but are more similar to an older style of post-hardcore, because of the fact that they don't have as many "pop" music influences. Therefore the "progressive post-hardcore" bands are actually playing a genre that is, arguably, more true to post-hardcore than the popular post-hardcore bands being labelled screamo. I mean how can you have an experimental post-hardcore band if post-hardcore is basically "experimental hardcore". NoremacDaGangsta ( talk) 22:22, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
We need to make a "Hardcore" article. "Hardcore" should not re-direct to "Hardcore Punk". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.60.80.54 ( talk) 00:49, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
This section has been tagged for five months, yet no one has taken the time to address the issues. The information is poorly sourced, but because sources are present it gives the appearance of verification. For example, there are two sources claiming that "experimental and progressive" post-hardcore bands are influenced by At the Drive In, however this band is not at all mentioned in the two sources provided. Most of the information follows that same pattern, a source is present but the source does not verify the claims. The description of electronic hardcore is very vague and leaves several holes. For example, Emery and These Arms are Snakes are two post-hardcore bands that feature synthesizers, however you will probably never find a source documenting these bands as "electronicore" as none exist. Also, a lot of the examples of "electronic" post-hardcore are actually metalcore. The entire section is original research that cannot be verified. And even if it could be verified, acknowledging these styles seems to be the minority view and WP:WEIGHT comes into play. Fezmar9 ( talk) 16:57, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
There were two references in the "2000s" section of this article that were tagged as unreliable. Since I was the one that added these refs, I thought I'd defend their reliability on the talk page. The first one is an interview with Ross Robinson published by Metal Insider. The interview was published by Bram Teitelman, who has also written for Noisecreep [5] and a Google News search suggests he's written for a couple other publications since 2003 as well, including a gig with Billboard. The interview was conducted by Emily Lazar, who apparently has some experience in interviewing based on the intro statement, but I'm not really sure of anything she's done outside of the source in question. And... I also wanted to make a statement about the other ref I used, but it looks like it's a dead link that redirects to an entirely different website now for whatever reason. I'll just go dig up another one. Fezmar9 ( talk) 15:43, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
It seems appropiate that I'd also defend the use and reliability of the Guy Peters' source. It seems that he's worked with this belgian music magazine with more than 500 articles to date, while the site also holds in their archives several interviews with a bunch of notable bands (from what I've browsed, I've seen Bloc Party, Maximo Park and Mogwai in their lists). More notably, one of his concert reviews has been linked from Mike Watt's homepage, along with interviews and reviews of him found in sources such as The New York Times and Billboard. Watt himself seems to me as a reliable third-party source. -- 190.159.187.70 ( talk) 00:37, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Would it be possible to merge the "notable fusions" section? it seems that it has to do entirely with the 2000s, and well, if there's one seeming characteristic of, even earlier post-hardcore groups, is incorporating new influences to their hardcore/post-hardcore sound (ie: Nation of Ulysses and jazz, Refused and electronic music, Fugazi and dub, etc.) So I don't see why should we give some sort of priority to these apparently (and largely unsourced -possibly original research?-, as the "not in citation given" and "unreliable source" tags seem to indicate) notable fusions -- 190.159.187.70 ( talk) 21:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
This article is too reliant on reviews for its sourcing. In fact, few or no reviews at all should be sourced as they are more pertinent to articles on specific albums than to a broad overview of the genre, not to mention reviews are essentially opinion pieces as opposed to proper historical reporting. Additionally the page is awfully bogged down by minutiae due to citing so many reviews for overly specific details. WesleyDodds ( talk) 11:39, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
The trouble with this is that, well, bands like The VSS and Six Finger Satellite were doing some sort of thing like that 10 years before, and just as I've pointed out, this could be considered as part of bands incorporating different influences themselves. And i don't think it should stand as a section of its own, unless historically for the last past years or so there has been a sort of scene that seems to share that common quality (references only point out to those particular cases), like the examples of D.C. and San Diego. Perhaps saying that the genre is influential for the nintendocore style seems important for it's own sub-section, but even so I don't think there's enough material for that to happen. I'm removing the header, but if anyone opposes, please discuss it here -- 190.159.187.70 ( talk) 19:46, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
There's not much out there drawing a connection between post-hardcore specifically and
Nintendocore. It seems to be a genre that mixes 8-bit sounds with really any style at all. Of all the bands listed at
Category:Nintendocore musical groups, none of them mention post-hardcore in their respective Wiki articles. And of the sources linked here, only the
allmusic bio for Horse the Band suggests a direct link between post-hardcore and nintendocore. However, Horse the Band are more commonly accepted as a
metalcore
[6]
[7]
[8]
[9] band anyways. So, the connection between the Nintendocore and post-hardcore is weak. The connection between the only band that is sometimes referred to as post-hardcore and Nintendocore is weak. I do not see a reason to include any mention of Nintendocore in this article.
Fezmar9 (
talk)
00:51, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
Hi everyone. I'm aware that the talk page for the article Post-hardcore is designed to host discussion about that article specifically, but there's something else troubling me. The article Screamo has recently been vandalized heavily. Individuals are removing referenced information, often entire sections. It seems that many resist certain definitions of the term. Anyways, I wish that a few more qualified Wikipedians would watch that page in order to defend it from this sort of activity. If I posted this statement on the talk page for Screamo, well, very few people watch the page so it wouldn't make much of an impact. I don't use Wikipedia as often as I used to, so I don't have time to revert ever vandal's edit. It takes MANY people to keep a page orderly. Thank you for listenning (/reading, actually). -- ♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 03:14, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
I think senses fail should be talked about on here because they're like the best post hardore band out there. oh yeah and hawthorne heights too — Preceding unsigned comment added by SomedayCameSuddenly ( talk • contribs) 01:58, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
The following text keeps being added:
"While post-hardcore is usually confused with metalcore and screamo, they are two completely different genres."
Now, for one, isn't the fact that we dedicate a separate article and post-hardcore isn't a redirect to either of those genres kind of telling that this is a separate genre from those (in spite of perhaps having some connection)? In any case, I wouldn't mind this so much if it was sourced like it's the case of this section in Screamo, which presents a verifiable POV related to the (possibly wrong and vague) usage of the term, but it seems that the statement keeps being added with no sources and just based on the thought that "because x isn't y (even if it's often confused for it), it must definitely be x", kind of incurring in WP:SYNTH. The genre infobox also marks the distinction between post-hardcore and the genres it breeded/influenced/it's related to, so it seems that it's rather pointless, especially for an article intro, unless it was gonna signal something else later in the article.
Unno, seems as a rather silly point to argue about, but what do you guys think? -- 190.157.154.245 ( talk) 02:27, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I've been giving thought to starting up a new article to cover bands affiliated with "The Wave" (e.g. Touche Amore, La Dispute, Pianos Become the Teeth, Make Do And Mend) but it seems maybe it could just be added as a new section in the post-hardcore article. I'm admittedly not actually an expert on how all these bands are affiliated or if there really is any formal affiliation between them, but it seems like a new trend in post-hardcore that has grown in popularity over the past few years. Anyone have any thoughts one way or the other on this? tdogg241 T C 20:07, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
I have notice this has not been edited for the start of the new decade yet. I don't see the point in adding a outdated template since this isn't that significant of a gap, maybe if it goes two years without additions. Just to outline what has happened this year: Four prominant bands Alexisonfire, The Bled, Thrice and Thursday have all broke up/ marked their hiatus. La Dispute, Touche Amore The Blackout, Funeral For a Friend and We Are The Ocean (to name a few) have all released albums. Glassjaw returned with the release of both a compilation EP and a new Extended Play, while Circle Takes the Square after many years released a brand new extended play with a second studio album following. letlive. re-released Fake History in 2011 and it received critical success. All five bands of "the wave" (there inclusion was mentioned in the "the wave" discussion above) are achieving more commercial and international success. Jonjonjohny ( talk) 21:28, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
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Should we add screaming vocals to instruments? As most (if not all) modern post-hardcore bands have screaming. Some of these bands include, The Amity Affliction, Silverstein, Alexisonfire, The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, We Are the Ocean, etc... The list goes on. — ıʇɐʞǝɐdʌɐиƭɐqǝoɟʎouɹqoɐʇ [ talk] 22:35, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
The page doesnt mention Falling in Reverse, Escape the Fate, Pierce the Veil, Blessthefall or Sleeping With Sirens. As all are modern Post-hardcore bands and seem to be really "in" right now and do have massive popularity I think they should at least be mention on the page. 69.29.215.17 ( talk) 23:04, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
While I've not been a part of it, Kid299, 50.247.163.181 and Binksternet have taken part in an edit war as to whether punk rock should be included as an influence. While I have not gone through every source, the specific source that all parties are pointing to, does not cite punk rock as being an influence, instead saying that it is a sub-genre of hardcore punk. Because of this, I'm starting this discussion to explain why I am on Kid2999's side, if Binksternet can not provide a source saying this then I will revert his last edit, however if he can, I will not. Issan Sumisu ( talk) 08:51, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
The question is whether bands like MCR should really be in this article or if they are not rather "Emo". Surely, there is a lot of overlap between the two genres, but there is clear evidence that MCR is more Emo than Post-Harcore. [1] In any case, I doubt that MCR should be in the top paragraph as an example for post-hardcore bands. Putting "The Used" there is even more absurd of course. Marc.1337 ( talk) 20:32, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
References
The source cited does not refer to blackgaze as a derivative of post-hardcore, and the genre itself is not heavily influenced enough by post-hardcore to be called a derivative form of it. Blackgaze is, as its name implies, a direct blend of both black metal and shoegaze. The Guardian article linked doesn't mention post-hardcore as anything other than a comparison to blackgaze's melodic rhythms, among other genres of rock. The article also only mentions a small handful of bands without delving into the history of blackgaze - it doesn't mention the subgenre's original source Alcest or its founder Neige at all - so it should not be considered a credible source of information linking the two musical genres. 70.79.59.95 ( talk) 22:51, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Postcore. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 September 24#Postcore until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
dannymusiceditor
oops
15:50, 24 September 2021 (UTC)