![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 10 January 2015. The result of the discussion was Keep. |
![]() | The contents of the Lassana Bathily page were merged into Hypercacher kosher supermarket siege on 12 Jan 2015. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
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Hello, Curly Turkey deleted the ethnicity of the victims as it stood next to each victim's name, with the following reasoning. (→Victims: the targets are already stated as having been all Jews in a Jewish supermarket, targeted for being Jews. Are we trying to break a record for the number of times we can include the word "Jew" in an article?). The issue is that in the parent article, Charlie Hebdo Shooting, the ethnicity/religion of all victims for whom RS provide the data is mentioned.
It seems to me that it is unencyclopedic/bias/unfair/inconsistent/demeaning to victims who were targeted for their religion to discriminate against them by not mentioning next to their names that which is indicated next to the names of the other victims,
XavierItzm (
talk)
07:57, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
Seriously, WTF?! We've gone from the perfectly appropriate Porte de Vincennes siege to Porte de Vincennes hostage crisis a couple of days ago, and then to Hypercacher kosher supermarket attack and then Hypercacher kosher supermarket shooting in the space of less than five minutes today. The most recent changes make no sense, because they could equally apply to a drive-by shooting, rather than the actual hostage situation that seems to have been the whole point of Coulibaly's actions. I should note that the issue of the page's name was mentioned in the deletion discussion, but hardly anyone expressed disatisfacion with the original Porte de Vincennes siege. Nick Cooper ( talk) 13:59, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
I have been removing honorifics for the dead from this article, as it seems to be clearly against our manual of style on the subject.
Also, this article had zt"l, which it appears should only be used for rabbis and other religious leaders. None of the victims here fall in this category.
Please correct me here if I'm wrong. Oiyarbepsy ( talk) 15:48, 12 January 2015 (UTC) - And by correct, I mean tell me why I'm wrong, not to continue edit-warring :) Oiyarbepsy ( talk) 15:52, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks to a mobile phone line that was unintentionally left open, Amedy Coulibaly's speech to his hostages, justifying the attack in his eyes, has been transcribed by RTL. The text is here. I'm willing to translate this into English and add it to the article if other editors think it's a good idea. Stu ( talk) 23:55, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
Bathily's religion has been the subject of numerous articles in reliable sources. In fact, J.K. Rowling's praise for him comes in the context of a debate about whether Muslims in general are to be blamed for the hostage crisis. The religious motivations behind this act of terror are obvious.
Therefore please don't remove Bathily's religion from the reactions, when reliable sources that report on the reactions themselves make a huge emphasis on Bathily's religion. VR talk 15:50, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
I was looking at the article on Amedy Coulibaly, and there was a suggestion of merger of that article to this article. It makes sense per WP:BLP1E. Although the subject maybe notable as an criminal, the subject was not notable prior to the event which is the subject of this article. This article does not meet WP:AS to warrant sub-article(s). Therefore, a merger of the assailant's article to this article would be appropriate.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 02:14, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
Epeefleche ( talk) 01:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I deleted Hayat Boumediene from the infobox, as it has since been established that she had left France several days before the attack and is currently in Syria. The police has just announced that Coulibaly did have an accomplice who apparently helped him reach Porte de Vincennes, though he did not take part in the actual hostage crisis. This man is apparently identified and said to be also in Syria, so we have to wait for the next developments. Jean-Jacques Georges ( talk) 09:35, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
a) Netanyahoo tried to asscociate Hamas with the attacks. b) So Hamas put out a statement condemning them C) So now we're resorting to an Israeli newspaper saying something was put on a Facebook page on a site they say is "associated" with Hamas - to tar them with supporting the attack. Despite their statement. I tried to change it but... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.29.75.193 ( talk) 10:32, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
"Hamas condemns the desperate attempts by…Netanyahu to make a connection between our movement and the resistance of our people on the one hand and global terrorism on the other,"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-attacks-hamas-condemns-charlie-hebdo-massacre-after-netanyahu-makes-comparison-to-gaza-rockets-9970096.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.30.193.213 ( talk) 11:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
Hi, French guy here. There are some mistakes in the description of the hostages execution and for one of the gun used (please refer to the French article). I don't speak English well enough to modify the article by myself, so if anyone can do it... He did not bring a vz. 58 but two Škorpion vz. 61 instead. Concerning the executions, 3 were shot at the beginning by Coulibaly during the 7 minutes after his entrance in the Hyper (source: Coulibaly GoPro video, told in the following article, http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/charlie-hebdo/20150225.OBS3345/levez-vous-ou-j-vais-vous-allumer-la-video-macabre-de-l-hyper-cacher.html). First, Coulibaly asked his name to Braham (1st victim) and then shot him in the head, then the hostages begun to panic and hide while Cohen (2nd victim) tried to intervene and was shot, he did not die immediately. Saada (3rd victim) was shot in the back running to the exit. The supermarket owner was injured to the arm at this moment, running through the exit door (he escaped and survived). Hattab (4th victim), was shot several minutes after when he came back from the basement, where he had tried to hide with some others. Hattab saw one of the Škorpion vz. 61 on a box and take it to use it against Coulibaly. The gun had been abandoned there because it did not work... Coulibaly, alerted by the metallic noise of the gun manipulation, saw Hattab and shot him. (Source: hostage testimony in French : http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2015/01/11/coulibaly-nous-a-dit-voila-pour-ceux-qui-tentent-de-se-defendre_1178632)
Hope it helps.
Den Kant — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.108.95.21 ( talk) 14:33, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
This article is poorly named. It's not a "crisis". You could more reasonably call it a "shooting", "siege" or if you want to risk POV accusations "terror attack". Furthermore, "Porte de Vincennes"? It's much more commonly referred to using "Hypercacher" or "[French] Kosher supermarket" than the geographic designator. Can we work together to come up with a more suitable name? -- Dweller ( talk) 15:27, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
The coverage of Lassana Bathily has been sustained since 2015.
Examples from Google books and news searches:
Per the sustained coverage over a number of years, this should be a standalone page, as it is on the French Wikipedia. The French Wikipedia page is also a good source for biographical details. 104.163.139.33 ( talk) 03:18, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:06, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 10 January 2015. The result of the discussion was Keep. |
![]() | The contents of the Lassana Bathily page were merged into Hypercacher kosher supermarket siege on 12 Jan 2015. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
![]() | WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS The article Hypercacher kosher supermarket siege, along with other pages relating to the Syrian Civil War and ISIL, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.
|
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hello, Curly Turkey deleted the ethnicity of the victims as it stood next to each victim's name, with the following reasoning. (→Victims: the targets are already stated as having been all Jews in a Jewish supermarket, targeted for being Jews. Are we trying to break a record for the number of times we can include the word "Jew" in an article?). The issue is that in the parent article, Charlie Hebdo Shooting, the ethnicity/religion of all victims for whom RS provide the data is mentioned.
It seems to me that it is unencyclopedic/bias/unfair/inconsistent/demeaning to victims who were targeted for their religion to discriminate against them by not mentioning next to their names that which is indicated next to the names of the other victims,
XavierItzm (
talk)
07:57, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
Seriously, WTF?! We've gone from the perfectly appropriate Porte de Vincennes siege to Porte de Vincennes hostage crisis a couple of days ago, and then to Hypercacher kosher supermarket attack and then Hypercacher kosher supermarket shooting in the space of less than five minutes today. The most recent changes make no sense, because they could equally apply to a drive-by shooting, rather than the actual hostage situation that seems to have been the whole point of Coulibaly's actions. I should note that the issue of the page's name was mentioned in the deletion discussion, but hardly anyone expressed disatisfacion with the original Porte de Vincennes siege. Nick Cooper ( talk) 13:59, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
I have been removing honorifics for the dead from this article, as it seems to be clearly against our manual of style on the subject.
Also, this article had zt"l, which it appears should only be used for rabbis and other religious leaders. None of the victims here fall in this category.
Please correct me here if I'm wrong. Oiyarbepsy ( talk) 15:48, 12 January 2015 (UTC) - And by correct, I mean tell me why I'm wrong, not to continue edit-warring :) Oiyarbepsy ( talk) 15:52, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks to a mobile phone line that was unintentionally left open, Amedy Coulibaly's speech to his hostages, justifying the attack in his eyes, has been transcribed by RTL. The text is here. I'm willing to translate this into English and add it to the article if other editors think it's a good idea. Stu ( talk) 23:55, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
Bathily's religion has been the subject of numerous articles in reliable sources. In fact, J.K. Rowling's praise for him comes in the context of a debate about whether Muslims in general are to be blamed for the hostage crisis. The religious motivations behind this act of terror are obvious.
Therefore please don't remove Bathily's religion from the reactions, when reliable sources that report on the reactions themselves make a huge emphasis on Bathily's religion. VR talk 15:50, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
I was looking at the article on Amedy Coulibaly, and there was a suggestion of merger of that article to this article. It makes sense per WP:BLP1E. Although the subject maybe notable as an criminal, the subject was not notable prior to the event which is the subject of this article. This article does not meet WP:AS to warrant sub-article(s). Therefore, a merger of the assailant's article to this article would be appropriate.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 02:14, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
Epeefleche ( talk) 01:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I deleted Hayat Boumediene from the infobox, as it has since been established that she had left France several days before the attack and is currently in Syria. The police has just announced that Coulibaly did have an accomplice who apparently helped him reach Porte de Vincennes, though he did not take part in the actual hostage crisis. This man is apparently identified and said to be also in Syria, so we have to wait for the next developments. Jean-Jacques Georges ( talk) 09:35, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
a) Netanyahoo tried to asscociate Hamas with the attacks. b) So Hamas put out a statement condemning them C) So now we're resorting to an Israeli newspaper saying something was put on a Facebook page on a site they say is "associated" with Hamas - to tar them with supporting the attack. Despite their statement. I tried to change it but... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.29.75.193 ( talk) 10:32, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
"Hamas condemns the desperate attempts by…Netanyahu to make a connection between our movement and the resistance of our people on the one hand and global terrorism on the other,"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-attacks-hamas-condemns-charlie-hebdo-massacre-after-netanyahu-makes-comparison-to-gaza-rockets-9970096.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.30.193.213 ( talk) 11:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
Hi, French guy here. There are some mistakes in the description of the hostages execution and for one of the gun used (please refer to the French article). I don't speak English well enough to modify the article by myself, so if anyone can do it... He did not bring a vz. 58 but two Škorpion vz. 61 instead. Concerning the executions, 3 were shot at the beginning by Coulibaly during the 7 minutes after his entrance in the Hyper (source: Coulibaly GoPro video, told in the following article, http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/charlie-hebdo/20150225.OBS3345/levez-vous-ou-j-vais-vous-allumer-la-video-macabre-de-l-hyper-cacher.html). First, Coulibaly asked his name to Braham (1st victim) and then shot him in the head, then the hostages begun to panic and hide while Cohen (2nd victim) tried to intervene and was shot, he did not die immediately. Saada (3rd victim) was shot in the back running to the exit. The supermarket owner was injured to the arm at this moment, running through the exit door (he escaped and survived). Hattab (4th victim), was shot several minutes after when he came back from the basement, where he had tried to hide with some others. Hattab saw one of the Škorpion vz. 61 on a box and take it to use it against Coulibaly. The gun had been abandoned there because it did not work... Coulibaly, alerted by the metallic noise of the gun manipulation, saw Hattab and shot him. (Source: hostage testimony in French : http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2015/01/11/coulibaly-nous-a-dit-voila-pour-ceux-qui-tentent-de-se-defendre_1178632)
Hope it helps.
Den Kant — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.108.95.21 ( talk) 14:33, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
This article is poorly named. It's not a "crisis". You could more reasonably call it a "shooting", "siege" or if you want to risk POV accusations "terror attack". Furthermore, "Porte de Vincennes"? It's much more commonly referred to using "Hypercacher" or "[French] Kosher supermarket" than the geographic designator. Can we work together to come up with a more suitable name? -- Dweller ( talk) 15:27, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
The coverage of Lassana Bathily has been sustained since 2015.
Examples from Google books and news searches:
Per the sustained coverage over a number of years, this should be a standalone page, as it is on the French Wikipedia. The French Wikipedia page is also a good source for biographical details. 104.163.139.33 ( talk) 03:18, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:06, 7 May 2019 (UTC)