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Dear IP,
I undestand that you are Italian and that you are a newcomer of English Wikipedia. We had some clashes over rollbacks, translations and other issues. First of all, let me tell you that it would be better if you provide yourself with a nickname, so that it will be easier for users to recognize you when you contribute to Wikipedia. Secondly, please avoid total rollbacks in favor of more specific edits: other users are not always wrong and something they do may be OK also for you. Take Template:Politics of Lombardy. You reject the term "government" as a translation for "giunta", even if leading constitutionalists as Augusto Barbera and Carlo Fusaro will agree with me. Think only about the fact that their "Corso di diritto pubblico" includes a chapter titled "I governi regionali e locali".
In general it is better to use terms that everyone in the world is able to understand: "statute" istead of "constitution" could be OK even if in English we usually use "constitution" when speaking about the basic law of a state or region, but definitely "administration" and "aldermen" are not OK. "Regional government" and "regional ministers", underlining "regional", are far better and clearer. We can also agree over "semi-presidential", even if most Italian constitutionalists speak of "presidential": Italian regional systems are similar to the US model than to the French one.
-- Checco ( talk) 16:38, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
As I told you, I can agree with you on "statute" and on "semi-presidentialism" (even if you did not find sources that support your opinion: indeed not only the regional President can dismiss the Council, but also the Council can dismiss the President. Thus I agree with you on this, but please find sources!
I agreed with you on most things. I hope you will agree on "regional government" (an expression used also by Barbera and Fusaro when speaking of the governments of Italian regions) and "regional ministers" (clearer than the obscure "aldermen"). I tried to understand, but I don't think that Google Translator or Word Reference can help us with these translations: "regional councillor" would be confusing, "regional alderman" is used only related to municipal politics in some Anglo-Saxon countries... only "regional minister" is really OK. Wikipedia has some customs and some rules we need to comply with. See for instance how Catalan consejeros are translated from es.Wiki to en.Wiki... -- Checco ( talk) 17:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Ps: I will draft a compromise version of this article and of the template (including some of your concers as well as mine). Please, start an account and log in!
Hi Checco! For the general difference between PR and SMPR, I suggest you this link [1]: I underline the fact that in a PR system, The terms of the chief executive and the legislative assembly are fixed, and not subject to mutual confidence (page 2): this is not the case of Italian regions. Italian regions can be paired with French Fifth Republic in page 3 divisions: both two are in the top right position, because the executive is direct elected but depends by the assembly.
Speaking about the other problem, I think you know there are many sources about regional presidents styled as "Governors", but using this term would transform this encyclopedia into a tabloid. I understand your problems about the term "Alderman", even if it is the litteral translation. But what I definetely oppose, is to use the term "Minister", because "ministry" is a well-defined term worldwide, and here we are not speaking about ministries (a ministry is a legal person, Italian assessorati do not: informally speaking, we can consider the Region "in-bloc" as a ministry). I don't want to impose the term "Alderman", but I definetely oppose "minister". I suggest to use the American-style couple "Regional Administration" - Secretary for..." for Giunta Regionale and Assessore, but I am open to all solutions excluding "minister". NumberOne-- 79.24.129.86 ( talk) 14:18, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Two more issues for you:
a) I understand the ratio that led you to move "Italian general election in Lombardy" articles to "Italian Senate election in Lombardy" articles, but we need a title that could well include also the race for the Chamber of Deputies... What do you think on this?
b) I did some research on the Tatarellum law used in several regions, including Lombardy. You wrote that "If a coalition wins more than 60% of votes, as happened during the 2000 election, only 8 candidates from the regional list will be chosen and the number of those elected in provincial constituencies will be 72". That is not true. Actually this happens when a coalition wins 50% of the total seats in the Council with proprortional representation (see a very simple explanation here). This is what happened for instance in the Marche in 2005: the centre-left won 57.6% of the vote and 20 seats with PR and, thus, only 4 candidates in the regional list out of 8 were elected. I will correct this.
-- Checco ( talk) 18:16, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 12:55, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
Dear IP,
I undestand that you are Italian and that you are a newcomer of English Wikipedia. We had some clashes over rollbacks, translations and other issues. First of all, let me tell you that it would be better if you provide yourself with a nickname, so that it will be easier for users to recognize you when you contribute to Wikipedia. Secondly, please avoid total rollbacks in favor of more specific edits: other users are not always wrong and something they do may be OK also for you. Take Template:Politics of Lombardy. You reject the term "government" as a translation for "giunta", even if leading constitutionalists as Augusto Barbera and Carlo Fusaro will agree with me. Think only about the fact that their "Corso di diritto pubblico" includes a chapter titled "I governi regionali e locali".
In general it is better to use terms that everyone in the world is able to understand: "statute" istead of "constitution" could be OK even if in English we usually use "constitution" when speaking about the basic law of a state or region, but definitely "administration" and "aldermen" are not OK. "Regional government" and "regional ministers", underlining "regional", are far better and clearer. We can also agree over "semi-presidential", even if most Italian constitutionalists speak of "presidential": Italian regional systems are similar to the US model than to the French one.
-- Checco ( talk) 16:38, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
As I told you, I can agree with you on "statute" and on "semi-presidentialism" (even if you did not find sources that support your opinion: indeed not only the regional President can dismiss the Council, but also the Council can dismiss the President. Thus I agree with you on this, but please find sources!
I agreed with you on most things. I hope you will agree on "regional government" (an expression used also by Barbera and Fusaro when speaking of the governments of Italian regions) and "regional ministers" (clearer than the obscure "aldermen"). I tried to understand, but I don't think that Google Translator or Word Reference can help us with these translations: "regional councillor" would be confusing, "regional alderman" is used only related to municipal politics in some Anglo-Saxon countries... only "regional minister" is really OK. Wikipedia has some customs and some rules we need to comply with. See for instance how Catalan consejeros are translated from es.Wiki to en.Wiki... -- Checco ( talk) 17:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Ps: I will draft a compromise version of this article and of the template (including some of your concers as well as mine). Please, start an account and log in!
Hi Checco! For the general difference between PR and SMPR, I suggest you this link [1]: I underline the fact that in a PR system, The terms of the chief executive and the legislative assembly are fixed, and not subject to mutual confidence (page 2): this is not the case of Italian regions. Italian regions can be paired with French Fifth Republic in page 3 divisions: both two are in the top right position, because the executive is direct elected but depends by the assembly.
Speaking about the other problem, I think you know there are many sources about regional presidents styled as "Governors", but using this term would transform this encyclopedia into a tabloid. I understand your problems about the term "Alderman", even if it is the litteral translation. But what I definetely oppose, is to use the term "Minister", because "ministry" is a well-defined term worldwide, and here we are not speaking about ministries (a ministry is a legal person, Italian assessorati do not: informally speaking, we can consider the Region "in-bloc" as a ministry). I don't want to impose the term "Alderman", but I definetely oppose "minister". I suggest to use the American-style couple "Regional Administration" - Secretary for..." for Giunta Regionale and Assessore, but I am open to all solutions excluding "minister". NumberOne-- 79.24.129.86 ( talk) 14:18, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Two more issues for you:
a) I understand the ratio that led you to move "Italian general election in Lombardy" articles to "Italian Senate election in Lombardy" articles, but we need a title that could well include also the race for the Chamber of Deputies... What do you think on this?
b) I did some research on the Tatarellum law used in several regions, including Lombardy. You wrote that "If a coalition wins more than 60% of votes, as happened during the 2000 election, only 8 candidates from the regional list will be chosen and the number of those elected in provincial constituencies will be 72". That is not true. Actually this happens when a coalition wins 50% of the total seats in the Council with proprortional representation (see a very simple explanation here). This is what happened for instance in the Marche in 2005: the centre-left won 57.6% of the vote and 20 seats with PR and, thus, only 4 candidates in the regional list out of 8 were elected. I will correct this.
-- Checco ( talk) 18:16, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 12:55, 5 January 2021 (UTC)