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Here's the official position of the Netherlands and its usual support for "the UN Secretary General’s Personal Envoy for the Western Sahara and his efforts to continue a political process aimed at reaching a just, lasting, and mutually acceptable political solution in accordance with the resolutions of the UN Security Council and the aims and principles set out in the United Nations Charter." The same goes for Germany. Since this position is no different than that of most countries, it cannot be grouped with those who voiced their support for a position that goes against internal law. While I have no objection to creating a section for those who support a "mutually acceptable political solution", I don't see what it could possible add to the article.
The other added sources (mapnews, northafricapost, moroccoworldnews) are non RS with a history of lying and twisting what is said by others. When a country changes position (like Spain did), you'd expect the change to be covered by multiple reliable sources (including official ones). M.Bitton ( talk) 15:22, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
Since I see you don't seem to read my answer fully, I will split this in point that hopefully you will read it all :
I will reverse it back, you're welcome to discuss it further here if you still don't agree. Keylostark ( talk) 16:41, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
As I said before, if you are not personally satisfied with sources, just add the mention "better source needed" rather than discarding them. You removed them while I was working on adding the sources, you're sabotaging my work by keep editing... Keylostark ( talk) 16:54, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
Several activist editors have been putting extremely questionnable and non factual informations about several section on the Page: Political status of Western Sahara, by not only refusing to provide more than one independent source in the several claims that they are presenting and relying exclusively on just one which is the SPSRASD website, a website fully controlled by the belligerent force Morocco is fighting in Western Sahara which is the Polisario front , and with many articles that are no different than North Korean propaganda as you can all see here https://www.spsrasd.info/news/en/articles/2022/06/08/40015.html an article written by the Polisario with completely wild statements that aren't verifiable by any third party independent sources same for these ones https://www.spsrasd.info/news/en/articles/2022/05/29/39909.html or this one https://www.spsrasd.info/news/en/articles/2022/05/08/39543.html and many others with informations about "heavy human and material losses" currently taking place, that no media either in Morocco, Europe, Asia or anywhere in the world for that matter have confirmed.
1) Wikipedia is supposed to be a source of factually and accuracy (i.e multiples independent AND reliable sources), but M.Bitton seems to be failing to see the difference between an opinion and a fact backed by multiple independents sources , such as his useless rhetorical questions here: "::::Do you, or anyone for that matter, doubt that countries such as Algeria and South Africa support SADR?M.Bitton (talk) 01:00, 9 June 2022 (UTC) (Editing Talk:Political status of Western Sahara - Wikipedia) asking me this question instead of putting themselves in the shoes of the potential reader, and failing to provide more than one source that is at the very least reliable.
2) Pretending that it's just a dead link here ( https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Political_status_of_Western_Sahara&diff=1092233629&oldid=1092232732&diffmode=source) when in reality it's just a completely invented source (this is the reference number 59 mentioned in the article " https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2013/gaspd528.doc.htm%7Cpublisher=UN Department of Public Information • News and Media Division • New York" (you can verify it by pretty much just replacing anything that comes after the "/org" "https://[www].[un].[org]/[insert word]" in this link by any word which will give the same result which is ERROR 404 and therefore artificially create a source and pretend that it's just a "dead link" ) a tactic used multiple times like here as well in the "States supporting Polisario and the SADR on Western Sahara" reference 125 ( https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs//2012/gaspd507.doc.htm ). Some references added such the ref number 154 ({{cite web |title=DPRK Diplomatic Relations |url= https://www.ncnk.org/resources/briefing-papers/all-briefing-papers/dprk-diplomatic-relations) do not even mention literally neither the Polisario or the Sahraoui Arab Democratic Republic if you use the command ctrl+f in your browser, which imply that there is quite a lot of false info in this section that I have been warning about hence the two tags "unreliable source" and "better source" needed.
3) And regardless of whether this singular source (that is SPSRASD) that is repeated multiple times with the aim to give the reader some semblance of factuality, is reliable or not (it is not, as it is a press organ controlled by the Polisario that writes many fake news articles such as here https://www.spsrasd.info/news/en/articles/2022/06/08/40015.html without any additional media confirming the various events on the ground and claims presented), one should always at least try to confirm statements through multiples additional independent media, hence why I added (One source|section) tag.
4) Independent and varied sources are very important to keep a high source of trust in the quality of the informations presented. Tsarisco ( talk) 06:30, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Sizito, how about we do this, we remove every single SPSRASD or Moroccan/Algerian news source
I have removed Egypt from the list (as the two unreliable sources have failed verification). I also tagged Nauru, Suriname, Turkmenistan and Cyprus. As has been stated previously, the Moroccan section is going to need a lot of work. M.Bitton ( talk) 15:22, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
The recently added "Greek" source is just a translation of what was said in "leconomiste" in a news aggregator site. This is obviously neither a reliable nor an independent source, and therefore, not one that we can use (as discussed above).
Sudan was removed from the list given that all the cited sources failed verification.
Romania was cn tagged since the original supporting source is from the Moroccan propaganda machine ( CORCAS).
Paraguay was removed from the list as all the cited sources failed verification, with 3 of them being actually pro RASD. M.Bitton ( talk) 20:21, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
"I re-tagged Chad as "Labass.net" is neither an independent nor a reliable source. Two sources that were added for the Cyprus claim are unreliable news aggregator sites. I also reworded part of the map's caption, in line with what's cited. M.Bitton ( talk) 13:23, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
@ Sizito: Since Peru withdrew its recognition of RASD (again), I have removed it from the list. Please note that contrary to what the IP claims, there is no mention of support of any kind. M.Bitton ( talk) 00:28, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Doesn't establishing a diplomatic mission in Dakhla and/or Laayoune constitute recognition of sovereignty? There is no contrast between the United States' announcement recognizing Moroccan sovereignty over the region and all the other states establishing diplomatic missions in Dakhla and Laayoune to represent them in Morocco. I don't understand why the United States is differentiated from other states just because they made an "announcement". Opening a diplomatic mission is the biggest of announcements, albeit not the only form of announcement. I have made changes so that all states that recognize Moroccan sovereignty over the region are highlighted in green (instead of just the United States). Usernom77 03:15, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
In the article on the political status of Western Sahara, the Dominican Republic was deleted by someone who said that the so-called first comment was the opposite interpretation, but the same situation existed in Guatemala, the first comment was in the past to support the opponent's point of view, It clearly shows that these countries have changed their views, but whether they should be classified according to recent views rather than previous views, the two commentary websites in the Dominican Republic are the official media of the Spanish-speaking world, why can't they be used as a reference? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.8.184.61 ( talk) 19:39, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
No matter what the foreign minister of Cyprus was in charge of, his current position can only represent Cyprus and nothing else, just like Serbia because of the Kosovo issue, Cyprus also needs support on the issue of the Turkish Republic in the north, and his previous UN position It is even less known, and he has already resigned, and does not represent the views of others. The most prominent point is the problem of the Dominican Republic, not Cyprus, and the Dominican Republic does not have such or such problems. Cyprus is long off the list, no need to argue — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.8.184.61 ( talk) 00:36, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
This person has prejudice. In the relationship between China and Morocco, I edited and edited a lot of content, but he grabbed one place. First of all, China is inherently neutral in the dispute. The content of the parties to the conflict is already in the resolution, calling on the Quartet to resolve it through a round table meeting, which has caused dissatisfaction in Algeria, which also has a statement, and secondly, all Non-Self-Governing Territories, including others such as Gibraltar, are related to "self-determination" , this is exactly the same as the resolutions of the past decades, why should it be emphasized many times?
Even in the China-Algeria joint statement, the two sides affirmed that "with regard to the Western Sahara issue, both sides emphasized their support for efforts to reach a just and lasting solution within the framework of international law, especially the relevant United Nations resolutions." They did not take sides. 中华人民共和国外交部和阿尔及利亚民主人民共和国外交部联合声明(全文) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.8.184.61 ( talk) 00:49, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
Regarding the question of whether Cyprus supports Morocco, here is an Italian media report, I don't know if it meets the citation requirements Sahara Occidentale: Cipro sostiene il piano di autonomia marocchino — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.8.184.61 ( talk) 20:07, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
welcome is different from support/appreciation and does not mean affirmation; and after I removed it (to please them), they bring a source that says "welcomes".
References
Argentina supports Moroccan autonomy proposal in Western Sahara: https://www.maroc.ma/es/news/el-presidente-del-grupo-de-amistad-parlamentaria-argentina-marruecos-aplaude-la-excelencia-de... and it should be remembered that in the majority of the Argentinian maps the Western Sahara appears as part of Morocco. Argentina, which has close relations with Morocco, has been traditionally supportive of the Moroccan position.--- 190.183.23.241 ( talk) 04:46, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
This
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105.67.135.4 ( talk) 07:37, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
Would be great to update list & maps 196.121.110.118 ( talk) 14:40, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
This
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The Polisario Front, an abbreviated form of the Spanish Frente Popular de Liberación de Saguía el Hamra y Río de Oro (Popular Front for the Liberation of Saguia el Hamra and Rio de Oro), also known as Frelisario at the start of its existence, is a political and armed independence movement of Western Sahara, created in 1973 to fight against the Spanish occupation. It has been opposed since 1976 to Morocco for the control of Western Sahara. Slimatechservices ( talk) 06:19, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
This
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Cambodia Supports Morocco's Sovereignty Over Disputed Western Sahara https://eacnews.asia/home/details/21190 Jassicamanson89 ( talk) 22:38, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The classification of Western Sahara as an occupied territory is a matter of contention, reflecting diverse perspectives on its status. While some argue for its characterization as an occupied territory, this viewpoint is not universally accepted. In contrast to regions like the West Bank, consistently termed "occupied territory" by the United Nations Security Council (UNSC), the UNSC has varied in its language regarding Western Sahara.
For instance, the UNSC's resolutions, such as the 2022 UNSC resolution, describe the situation in Western Sahara as a disputed territory rather than explicitly labeling it as occupied. The nuances in UNSC language underscore the complexity and ongoing debate surrounding the status of Western Sahara. [1]
Additionally, it is worth noting that author, for reasons not explicitly stated, omit references such as the Letter dated 29 January 2002 from the Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs, the Legal Counsel, addressed to the President of the Security Council. This letter refers to Morocco as the administrative power rather than an occupation power in Western Sahara. [2].
Therfore i am deleting the line about occupation — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raye Smith ( talk • contribs) 14:28, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Political status of Western Sahara article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4Auto-archiving period: 180 days |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Here's the official position of the Netherlands and its usual support for "the UN Secretary General’s Personal Envoy for the Western Sahara and his efforts to continue a political process aimed at reaching a just, lasting, and mutually acceptable political solution in accordance with the resolutions of the UN Security Council and the aims and principles set out in the United Nations Charter." The same goes for Germany. Since this position is no different than that of most countries, it cannot be grouped with those who voiced their support for a position that goes against internal law. While I have no objection to creating a section for those who support a "mutually acceptable political solution", I don't see what it could possible add to the article.
The other added sources (mapnews, northafricapost, moroccoworldnews) are non RS with a history of lying and twisting what is said by others. When a country changes position (like Spain did), you'd expect the change to be covered by multiple reliable sources (including official ones). M.Bitton ( talk) 15:22, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
Since I see you don't seem to read my answer fully, I will split this in point that hopefully you will read it all :
I will reverse it back, you're welcome to discuss it further here if you still don't agree. Keylostark ( talk) 16:41, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
As I said before, if you are not personally satisfied with sources, just add the mention "better source needed" rather than discarding them. You removed them while I was working on adding the sources, you're sabotaging my work by keep editing... Keylostark ( talk) 16:54, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
Several activist editors have been putting extremely questionnable and non factual informations about several section on the Page: Political status of Western Sahara, by not only refusing to provide more than one independent source in the several claims that they are presenting and relying exclusively on just one which is the SPSRASD website, a website fully controlled by the belligerent force Morocco is fighting in Western Sahara which is the Polisario front , and with many articles that are no different than North Korean propaganda as you can all see here https://www.spsrasd.info/news/en/articles/2022/06/08/40015.html an article written by the Polisario with completely wild statements that aren't verifiable by any third party independent sources same for these ones https://www.spsrasd.info/news/en/articles/2022/05/29/39909.html or this one https://www.spsrasd.info/news/en/articles/2022/05/08/39543.html and many others with informations about "heavy human and material losses" currently taking place, that no media either in Morocco, Europe, Asia or anywhere in the world for that matter have confirmed.
1) Wikipedia is supposed to be a source of factually and accuracy (i.e multiples independent AND reliable sources), but M.Bitton seems to be failing to see the difference between an opinion and a fact backed by multiple independents sources , such as his useless rhetorical questions here: "::::Do you, or anyone for that matter, doubt that countries such as Algeria and South Africa support SADR?M.Bitton (talk) 01:00, 9 June 2022 (UTC) (Editing Talk:Political status of Western Sahara - Wikipedia) asking me this question instead of putting themselves in the shoes of the potential reader, and failing to provide more than one source that is at the very least reliable.
2) Pretending that it's just a dead link here ( https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Political_status_of_Western_Sahara&diff=1092233629&oldid=1092232732&diffmode=source) when in reality it's just a completely invented source (this is the reference number 59 mentioned in the article " https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2013/gaspd528.doc.htm%7Cpublisher=UN Department of Public Information • News and Media Division • New York" (you can verify it by pretty much just replacing anything that comes after the "/org" "https://[www].[un].[org]/[insert word]" in this link by any word which will give the same result which is ERROR 404 and therefore artificially create a source and pretend that it's just a "dead link" ) a tactic used multiple times like here as well in the "States supporting Polisario and the SADR on Western Sahara" reference 125 ( https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs//2012/gaspd507.doc.htm ). Some references added such the ref number 154 ({{cite web |title=DPRK Diplomatic Relations |url= https://www.ncnk.org/resources/briefing-papers/all-briefing-papers/dprk-diplomatic-relations) do not even mention literally neither the Polisario or the Sahraoui Arab Democratic Republic if you use the command ctrl+f in your browser, which imply that there is quite a lot of false info in this section that I have been warning about hence the two tags "unreliable source" and "better source" needed.
3) And regardless of whether this singular source (that is SPSRASD) that is repeated multiple times with the aim to give the reader some semblance of factuality, is reliable or not (it is not, as it is a press organ controlled by the Polisario that writes many fake news articles such as here https://www.spsrasd.info/news/en/articles/2022/06/08/40015.html without any additional media confirming the various events on the ground and claims presented), one should always at least try to confirm statements through multiples additional independent media, hence why I added (One source|section) tag.
4) Independent and varied sources are very important to keep a high source of trust in the quality of the informations presented. Tsarisco ( talk) 06:30, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Sizito, how about we do this, we remove every single SPSRASD or Moroccan/Algerian news source
I have removed Egypt from the list (as the two unreliable sources have failed verification). I also tagged Nauru, Suriname, Turkmenistan and Cyprus. As has been stated previously, the Moroccan section is going to need a lot of work. M.Bitton ( talk) 15:22, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
The recently added "Greek" source is just a translation of what was said in "leconomiste" in a news aggregator site. This is obviously neither a reliable nor an independent source, and therefore, not one that we can use (as discussed above).
Sudan was removed from the list given that all the cited sources failed verification.
Romania was cn tagged since the original supporting source is from the Moroccan propaganda machine ( CORCAS).
Paraguay was removed from the list as all the cited sources failed verification, with 3 of them being actually pro RASD. M.Bitton ( talk) 20:21, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
"I re-tagged Chad as "Labass.net" is neither an independent nor a reliable source. Two sources that were added for the Cyprus claim are unreliable news aggregator sites. I also reworded part of the map's caption, in line with what's cited. M.Bitton ( talk) 13:23, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
@ Sizito: Since Peru withdrew its recognition of RASD (again), I have removed it from the list. Please note that contrary to what the IP claims, there is no mention of support of any kind. M.Bitton ( talk) 00:28, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Doesn't establishing a diplomatic mission in Dakhla and/or Laayoune constitute recognition of sovereignty? There is no contrast between the United States' announcement recognizing Moroccan sovereignty over the region and all the other states establishing diplomatic missions in Dakhla and Laayoune to represent them in Morocco. I don't understand why the United States is differentiated from other states just because they made an "announcement". Opening a diplomatic mission is the biggest of announcements, albeit not the only form of announcement. I have made changes so that all states that recognize Moroccan sovereignty over the region are highlighted in green (instead of just the United States). Usernom77 03:15, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
In the article on the political status of Western Sahara, the Dominican Republic was deleted by someone who said that the so-called first comment was the opposite interpretation, but the same situation existed in Guatemala, the first comment was in the past to support the opponent's point of view, It clearly shows that these countries have changed their views, but whether they should be classified according to recent views rather than previous views, the two commentary websites in the Dominican Republic are the official media of the Spanish-speaking world, why can't they be used as a reference? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.8.184.61 ( talk) 19:39, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
No matter what the foreign minister of Cyprus was in charge of, his current position can only represent Cyprus and nothing else, just like Serbia because of the Kosovo issue, Cyprus also needs support on the issue of the Turkish Republic in the north, and his previous UN position It is even less known, and he has already resigned, and does not represent the views of others. The most prominent point is the problem of the Dominican Republic, not Cyprus, and the Dominican Republic does not have such or such problems. Cyprus is long off the list, no need to argue — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.8.184.61 ( talk) 00:36, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
This person has prejudice. In the relationship between China and Morocco, I edited and edited a lot of content, but he grabbed one place. First of all, China is inherently neutral in the dispute. The content of the parties to the conflict is already in the resolution, calling on the Quartet to resolve it through a round table meeting, which has caused dissatisfaction in Algeria, which also has a statement, and secondly, all Non-Self-Governing Territories, including others such as Gibraltar, are related to "self-determination" , this is exactly the same as the resolutions of the past decades, why should it be emphasized many times?
Even in the China-Algeria joint statement, the two sides affirmed that "with regard to the Western Sahara issue, both sides emphasized their support for efforts to reach a just and lasting solution within the framework of international law, especially the relevant United Nations resolutions." They did not take sides. 中华人民共和国外交部和阿尔及利亚民主人民共和国外交部联合声明(全文) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.8.184.61 ( talk) 00:49, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
Regarding the question of whether Cyprus supports Morocco, here is an Italian media report, I don't know if it meets the citation requirements Sahara Occidentale: Cipro sostiene il piano di autonomia marocchino — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.8.184.61 ( talk) 20:07, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
welcome is different from support/appreciation and does not mean affirmation; and after I removed it (to please them), they bring a source that says "welcomes".
References
Argentina supports Moroccan autonomy proposal in Western Sahara: https://www.maroc.ma/es/news/el-presidente-del-grupo-de-amistad-parlamentaria-argentina-marruecos-aplaude-la-excelencia-de... and it should be remembered that in the majority of the Argentinian maps the Western Sahara appears as part of Morocco. Argentina, which has close relations with Morocco, has been traditionally supportive of the Moroccan position.--- 190.183.23.241 ( talk) 04:46, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
This
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105.67.135.4 ( talk) 07:37, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
Would be great to update list & maps 196.121.110.118 ( talk) 14:40, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
This
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The Polisario Front, an abbreviated form of the Spanish Frente Popular de Liberación de Saguía el Hamra y Río de Oro (Popular Front for the Liberation of Saguia el Hamra and Rio de Oro), also known as Frelisario at the start of its existence, is a political and armed independence movement of Western Sahara, created in 1973 to fight against the Spanish occupation. It has been opposed since 1976 to Morocco for the control of Western Sahara. Slimatechservices ( talk) 06:19, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Cambodia Supports Morocco's Sovereignty Over Disputed Western Sahara https://eacnews.asia/home/details/21190 Jassicamanson89 ( talk) 22:38, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The classification of Western Sahara as an occupied territory is a matter of contention, reflecting diverse perspectives on its status. While some argue for its characterization as an occupied territory, this viewpoint is not universally accepted. In contrast to regions like the West Bank, consistently termed "occupied territory" by the United Nations Security Council (UNSC), the UNSC has varied in its language regarding Western Sahara.
For instance, the UNSC's resolutions, such as the 2022 UNSC resolution, describe the situation in Western Sahara as a disputed territory rather than explicitly labeling it as occupied. The nuances in UNSC language underscore the complexity and ongoing debate surrounding the status of Western Sahara. [1]
Additionally, it is worth noting that author, for reasons not explicitly stated, omit references such as the Letter dated 29 January 2002 from the Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs, the Legal Counsel, addressed to the President of the Security Council. This letter refers to Morocco as the administrative power rather than an occupation power in Western Sahara. [2].
Therfore i am deleting the line about occupation — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raye Smith ( talk • contribs) 14:28, 26 December 2023 (UTC)