This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Political impact of the COVID-19 pandemic article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
COVID-19, broadly construed, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
![]() |
WikiProject COVID-19 consensus WikiProject COVID-19 aims to add to and build consensus for pages relating to COVID-19. They have so far discussed items listed below. Please discuss proposed improvements to them at the project talk page.
To ensure you are viewing the current list, you may wish to . |
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() |
|
We should present the new legislation fairly and neutrally. The principal points of the new law are the following ( [1]): 1. The Governemt (not the Prime Minister!) is authorized to rule by decree to the extent it is necessary to diminish the consequences of the coronavirus pandemic till the end of the pandemic. 2. Not elections, but by-election are suspended till the end of the pandemic. 3. The Court of Constitution can make judgement through electronic communicaiton (without holding formal sessions). 4. The authorization is indeed indefinite, because we do not know when the pandemic ends. Of course, we can present PoVs claiming that such an emergency authorization is incompatible with democracy, but we cannot presents PoVs as facts. Borsoka ( talk) 02:37, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
"In February 2014, Pro-Ráta Holding Zrt, a company close to Lajos Simicska, a businessman often described as a "Fidesz oligarch", but later a fierce enemy of Orbán, signed an option to buy Index from Spéder, unknown to Index's employees.[30] After Simicska fell out with Orbán in 2015.[31] and several businesspeople still allied with Fidesz started showing interest in purchasing Index" "After Fidesz's overwhelming victory in the 2010 elections, Spéder's close relationship with several figures close to the party meant that many at Index started fearing increased political influence.[24][25] This culminated in Péter Uj resigning as editor-in-chief after 11 years in September 2011[13], later citing the firing of one of Index's employees after an article critical of Viktor Orbán as the cause of his exit." - Jon698 ( talk) 19:20, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
Tommancs ( talk) 15:52, 5 April 2020 (UTC) a — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommancs ( talk • contribs) 15:52, 5 April 2020 (UTC) Tommancs ( talk) 16:10, 5 April 2020 (UTC) We should not allow to publish point of views here. 444, HVG and Nepszava are all left, liberal newspapers. They are heavily anti-goverment and tend to misinterpret laws on purpose and present their point of views as facts. (I have to add that pro-goverment newspapers also do this, of course just the other way around...) Anyway, the law can be read by full extent here: https://net.jogtar.hu/jogszabaly?docid=A2000012.TV&celpara=&dbnum=1 If one reads it, word by word, just as I did, one can conclude the following regarding this dispute: 1. The Governemt is authorized to rule by decree to the extent it is necessary to diminish the consequences of the coronavirus pandemic till the end of the pandemic. (As one member already said correctly above.) Not Orban, the goverment. The head of the goverment happens to be him, but that's how a government work, they all have a head... 2. The general elections are not suspended, as a matter of fact they are constitutional, so no law can suspend them anyway. Only special, so called by-election are suspended till the end of the pandemic. These elections are in case of a premature vacancy of the chair: dying, resigning, etc. 4. The authorization is indeed indefinite - logically, since we do not know when the pandemic ends. I have to add, that in. Hungary, the ruling Fidesz party already has two-third majority. So if this law weren't infinite, they could prolong it anytime anyway. Normally the Parliament decides when the emergency is over in which the government already have not just majority, but 2/3 majority. Now also the government can say when the emewrgency is over. IT IS THE SAME. The only reason why it's safer to have an indeinite one: in a worst case scenario, there can be many seats empty because of the pandemic, the Parliament may not have quorum, which can leave the country ungoverned. This law prevents this from happening. 5. Spreading fake or untrue news in general can't end up in prison sentenctes. Please READ the corresponding law. The criminal code was modified so that openly spreading untrue or fake news to the public THAT BALK THE FIGHT against the pandemic can result even in prison sentences. Huge difference.
Tommancs ( talk) 17:59, 5 April 2020 (UTC)We could use them if they were not misleading. But they are, in this case. Not only exaggerating, but making false conclusions. You are Hungarian, read the law by yourself, if you don't beleive me. Then, after you read it (only a few pages), please specify the points were my arguments are incorrect. (They are not.) I didn't say to copy the law anyway, I said we should only state something which is the law, and not 444's, HVG's or Népszavaz's OPINION. Or, why didn't you state the opinion of Origo or 888 for example? Both sides have opinions, we should only use the law itself as a source, not leftist or rightist newspapers.
Tommancs ( talk) 18:14, 5 April 2020 (UTC)That's sad. Basically 888 and Origo are the biggest pro-goverment newspapers. Reading only leftist newspapers and using them as the only source surely won't help Wikipedia having a politically-neutral articles which its should be. I always read newspapers from all sides. But it doesn't matter. Luckily, we only have to read the law itself which is cyristal clear.
@ Tommancs:, the law is presented neutrally in section 1. Impact on international relations under the subtitle 1.1 Hungary because it is first mentioned there. We do not need to duplicate the same info twice. Please, stop restoring the duplication. Borsoka ( talk) 19:01, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Tommancs ( talk) 21:52, 5 April 2020 (UTC) Fair enough about the international section. However, at least we should refer to the that paragraph here as well, since not everybody reads an articel from the very beginning to the end. This law obvisously had impacts on national politics, so if we don't want to duplicate - which is reasonable, and I understand - I insist we must make a link to the upper section, something like this: "Read more on the Coronavirus Protection Act / authorization law here" or something like that.
195.38.98.143 ( talk) 08:44, 6 April 2020 (UTC)Of course, there is a link, but that's not the point. That has nothing to do the impacts on the national politics. That doesn't solve the issue I presented. Anyway, the section in question has been modified again. Almost okay, but it says "The law also suspends all elections and referendums for the duration of the emergency." which is not true. Only by-election were suspended, so I corrected that. Tommancs ( talk) 08:45, 6 April 2020 (UTC)The above post is mine.
@ Keepcalmandchill:, if you watch Christiane Amanpour's short interview with Péter Szijjártó, you will hear that Amanpour specifically referred to reports in Washington Post and other mainstream newspapers about the Hungarian government's unlimited authorization and the closing down of the Hungarian Parliament. I have not questioned the reliability of Amanpour's summary. If you think she did not summarize correctly the reports, please mention it (of course, based on reliable sources). On the other hand, Szijjártó specifically referred to these news when talking about unfounded reports. Since the government's authroization is not unlimited and the Hungarian Parliament continues its sessions in the usual way, we cannot claim that Szijjártó's words were only "claims". Borsoka ( talk) 04:54, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
You are cordially invited to edit Draft:Mismanagement of the 2019-20 COVID-19 pandemic. Calmecac5 ( talk) 20:29, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
As per official electoral website, wybory.gov.pl, the bolded text says:
The applicable law deprived the National Electoral Commission of the tools necessary to perform its duties. Therefore the National Electoral Commission informs the voters, electoral committees, candidates, electoral administration, and local government units that the elections on May 10th 2020 cannot be conducted.
The map on the page should be updated accordingly. Unfortunately, I don't know how to edit .svg files. -- 37.248.157.80 ( talk) 16:00, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
What do we think about splitting this page - One page to keep track of the impact of politics overall, and another to keep track of individual political figures who have gotten the virus? KConWiki ( talk) 18:09, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
This article is way too long & WP:BLOATED. There is absolutely no reason to include a list of every single "politician and public figures infected with COVID-19" in the entire world (sections 5 & 6). If it impacted national politics, it should be in the "Impact on national politics" section; if not, it's trivial and does not belong in the article. Also, the sections on the impact on the United Kingdom (3.15) & impact on U.S. elections (4.23) are too long. (And not sure why "Impact on national politics" is a separate section rather than being part of "Impact on national politics".) Yaakovaryeh ( talk) 04:23, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
Thank you @ FormalDude: for bringing attention to the issue and removing the section as per consensus reached here. @ Leijona1824:, Please note the consensus reached here and refrain from either reverting and/or re-adding the section or its information on this article henceforth. •Shawnqual• 📚 • 💭 09:33, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
Is President Pierre Nkurunziza really the first sitting world leader to die of Covid-19? The Burundian government denies it. Closest relatives also don't seem to admit it and the sources used in references could not be named. Otherwise, I move for eSwatini PM Ambrose Dlamini to be recognized as such. Leijona1824 ( talk) 16:57, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Political impact of the COVID-19 pandemic article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
COVID-19, broadly construed, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
![]() |
WikiProject COVID-19 consensus WikiProject COVID-19 aims to add to and build consensus for pages relating to COVID-19. They have so far discussed items listed below. Please discuss proposed improvements to them at the project talk page.
To ensure you are viewing the current list, you may wish to . |
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() |
|
We should present the new legislation fairly and neutrally. The principal points of the new law are the following ( [1]): 1. The Governemt (not the Prime Minister!) is authorized to rule by decree to the extent it is necessary to diminish the consequences of the coronavirus pandemic till the end of the pandemic. 2. Not elections, but by-election are suspended till the end of the pandemic. 3. The Court of Constitution can make judgement through electronic communicaiton (without holding formal sessions). 4. The authorization is indeed indefinite, because we do not know when the pandemic ends. Of course, we can present PoVs claiming that such an emergency authorization is incompatible with democracy, but we cannot presents PoVs as facts. Borsoka ( talk) 02:37, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
"In February 2014, Pro-Ráta Holding Zrt, a company close to Lajos Simicska, a businessman often described as a "Fidesz oligarch", but later a fierce enemy of Orbán, signed an option to buy Index from Spéder, unknown to Index's employees.[30] After Simicska fell out with Orbán in 2015.[31] and several businesspeople still allied with Fidesz started showing interest in purchasing Index" "After Fidesz's overwhelming victory in the 2010 elections, Spéder's close relationship with several figures close to the party meant that many at Index started fearing increased political influence.[24][25] This culminated in Péter Uj resigning as editor-in-chief after 11 years in September 2011[13], later citing the firing of one of Index's employees after an article critical of Viktor Orbán as the cause of his exit." - Jon698 ( talk) 19:20, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
Tommancs ( talk) 15:52, 5 April 2020 (UTC) a — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommancs ( talk • contribs) 15:52, 5 April 2020 (UTC) Tommancs ( talk) 16:10, 5 April 2020 (UTC) We should not allow to publish point of views here. 444, HVG and Nepszava are all left, liberal newspapers. They are heavily anti-goverment and tend to misinterpret laws on purpose and present their point of views as facts. (I have to add that pro-goverment newspapers also do this, of course just the other way around...) Anyway, the law can be read by full extent here: https://net.jogtar.hu/jogszabaly?docid=A2000012.TV&celpara=&dbnum=1 If one reads it, word by word, just as I did, one can conclude the following regarding this dispute: 1. The Governemt is authorized to rule by decree to the extent it is necessary to diminish the consequences of the coronavirus pandemic till the end of the pandemic. (As one member already said correctly above.) Not Orban, the goverment. The head of the goverment happens to be him, but that's how a government work, they all have a head... 2. The general elections are not suspended, as a matter of fact they are constitutional, so no law can suspend them anyway. Only special, so called by-election are suspended till the end of the pandemic. These elections are in case of a premature vacancy of the chair: dying, resigning, etc. 4. The authorization is indeed indefinite - logically, since we do not know when the pandemic ends. I have to add, that in. Hungary, the ruling Fidesz party already has two-third majority. So if this law weren't infinite, they could prolong it anytime anyway. Normally the Parliament decides when the emergency is over in which the government already have not just majority, but 2/3 majority. Now also the government can say when the emewrgency is over. IT IS THE SAME. The only reason why it's safer to have an indeinite one: in a worst case scenario, there can be many seats empty because of the pandemic, the Parliament may not have quorum, which can leave the country ungoverned. This law prevents this from happening. 5. Spreading fake or untrue news in general can't end up in prison sentenctes. Please READ the corresponding law. The criminal code was modified so that openly spreading untrue or fake news to the public THAT BALK THE FIGHT against the pandemic can result even in prison sentences. Huge difference.
Tommancs ( talk) 17:59, 5 April 2020 (UTC)We could use them if they were not misleading. But they are, in this case. Not only exaggerating, but making false conclusions. You are Hungarian, read the law by yourself, if you don't beleive me. Then, after you read it (only a few pages), please specify the points were my arguments are incorrect. (They are not.) I didn't say to copy the law anyway, I said we should only state something which is the law, and not 444's, HVG's or Népszavaz's OPINION. Or, why didn't you state the opinion of Origo or 888 for example? Both sides have opinions, we should only use the law itself as a source, not leftist or rightist newspapers.
Tommancs ( talk) 18:14, 5 April 2020 (UTC)That's sad. Basically 888 and Origo are the biggest pro-goverment newspapers. Reading only leftist newspapers and using them as the only source surely won't help Wikipedia having a politically-neutral articles which its should be. I always read newspapers from all sides. But it doesn't matter. Luckily, we only have to read the law itself which is cyristal clear.
@ Tommancs:, the law is presented neutrally in section 1. Impact on international relations under the subtitle 1.1 Hungary because it is first mentioned there. We do not need to duplicate the same info twice. Please, stop restoring the duplication. Borsoka ( talk) 19:01, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Tommancs ( talk) 21:52, 5 April 2020 (UTC) Fair enough about the international section. However, at least we should refer to the that paragraph here as well, since not everybody reads an articel from the very beginning to the end. This law obvisously had impacts on national politics, so if we don't want to duplicate - which is reasonable, and I understand - I insist we must make a link to the upper section, something like this: "Read more on the Coronavirus Protection Act / authorization law here" or something like that.
195.38.98.143 ( talk) 08:44, 6 April 2020 (UTC)Of course, there is a link, but that's not the point. That has nothing to do the impacts on the national politics. That doesn't solve the issue I presented. Anyway, the section in question has been modified again. Almost okay, but it says "The law also suspends all elections and referendums for the duration of the emergency." which is not true. Only by-election were suspended, so I corrected that. Tommancs ( talk) 08:45, 6 April 2020 (UTC)The above post is mine.
@ Keepcalmandchill:, if you watch Christiane Amanpour's short interview with Péter Szijjártó, you will hear that Amanpour specifically referred to reports in Washington Post and other mainstream newspapers about the Hungarian government's unlimited authorization and the closing down of the Hungarian Parliament. I have not questioned the reliability of Amanpour's summary. If you think she did not summarize correctly the reports, please mention it (of course, based on reliable sources). On the other hand, Szijjártó specifically referred to these news when talking about unfounded reports. Since the government's authroization is not unlimited and the Hungarian Parliament continues its sessions in the usual way, we cannot claim that Szijjártó's words were only "claims". Borsoka ( talk) 04:54, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
You are cordially invited to edit Draft:Mismanagement of the 2019-20 COVID-19 pandemic. Calmecac5 ( talk) 20:29, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
As per official electoral website, wybory.gov.pl, the bolded text says:
The applicable law deprived the National Electoral Commission of the tools necessary to perform its duties. Therefore the National Electoral Commission informs the voters, electoral committees, candidates, electoral administration, and local government units that the elections on May 10th 2020 cannot be conducted.
The map on the page should be updated accordingly. Unfortunately, I don't know how to edit .svg files. -- 37.248.157.80 ( talk) 16:00, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
What do we think about splitting this page - One page to keep track of the impact of politics overall, and another to keep track of individual political figures who have gotten the virus? KConWiki ( talk) 18:09, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
This article is way too long & WP:BLOATED. There is absolutely no reason to include a list of every single "politician and public figures infected with COVID-19" in the entire world (sections 5 & 6). If it impacted national politics, it should be in the "Impact on national politics" section; if not, it's trivial and does not belong in the article. Also, the sections on the impact on the United Kingdom (3.15) & impact on U.S. elections (4.23) are too long. (And not sure why "Impact on national politics" is a separate section rather than being part of "Impact on national politics".) Yaakovaryeh ( talk) 04:23, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
Thank you @ FormalDude: for bringing attention to the issue and removing the section as per consensus reached here. @ Leijona1824:, Please note the consensus reached here and refrain from either reverting and/or re-adding the section or its information on this article henceforth. •Shawnqual• 📚 • 💭 09:33, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
Is President Pierre Nkurunziza really the first sitting world leader to die of Covid-19? The Burundian government denies it. Closest relatives also don't seem to admit it and the sources used in references could not be named. Otherwise, I move for eSwatini PM Ambrose Dlamini to be recognized as such. Leijona1824 ( talk) 16:57, 14 August 2021 (UTC)