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Could anyone include something indicating information about common card sizes? You commonly (in english-speaking countries) see cards listed as either bridge or poker size -- what's the difference? Are there any other sizes commonly used, eg I sometimes see decks advertised as pinochle decks. AxS 14:57, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Concerning the common sizes, I just measured a pack of Bicycle brand poker cards. They are definitely 63 mm by 88 mm. Are we sure the most common size is 62 and not 63 mm? Is it possible the common width has changed over time? -- Trakon 09:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Related to the sizes, the article states "The most common sizes for playing cards are poker size (2.5×3.5 inches (63.5×88.9 mm), or B8 size according to ISO 216) and bridge size (2.25×3.5 inches (56×87 mm)), the latter being narrower.[25]". The reference only states that the size is 2.3x3.5 inches and says nothing about B8 size. B8 size is not 2.3x3.5 inches, it is 62x88 mm, which is a different size. Which is it? I assume 2.5x3.5 because of the reference, but I can't be sure. Potatoj316 ( talk) 20:21, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Did this information get removed? I'd also like to see information on the overall card shape; I recall learning that the the current rectangular shape is relatively new, and that (for example) circular cards were once popular. Modern Poker-sized playing cards agree with B8 in ISO 216, which surely can't be coincidental, so this seems to suggest that this size can't be older than 1798. Joule36e5 ( talk) 07:40, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
After I noticed the inconsitencies and un-earnt credit in the naming of the standard deck here as the "Anglo-American deck", I did a bit of checking and now we can put this debate to rest. At these seemingly reliable sites, it just calls it the French deck straight up: http://www.answers.com/topic/playing-card http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/explain/docs/cards.asp http://www.briscolausa.com/howtoplay.htm http://www.gamblerinsight.com/index.php/poker/poker-room-reviews/poker/poker-articles/307-the-four-kings.html http://gamingzion.com/poker/france/ http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/417277/play-lost-cities-with-a-normal-poker-french-card-d Even other wikipedia pages refer to it as the French deck: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suit_%28cards%29 I was hoping to use the Bicycle website as a source, but I noticed that it translated Baccarat Chemin de Fer by the incorrect urban myth and also kept alive the urban myth that the Viet Cong were terrified of the Ace of Spades.
This site provided the best explanation as to why some people don't call it the French deck: http://www.cardplayer.com/cardplayer-magazines/65790-michael-mizrachi-23-14/articles/19403-court-cards The letters have been translated (from Roi to King for example) and the pictures are in a slightly different style. Still, as many of the previous sources have indicated, those differences are frivolous and just to be expected. The only mention I could find for why America has any claim to the name is because America introduced the Joker in order to play Bridge I think it was. What they failed to point out though is that the original French Tarot deck already had the fool which is depicted in the same way as the Joker and plays the same function as the Joker in Tarot. So it would be more correct to say that the Americans "brought back the joker". It might interest you to know that most people seemed to not even realise that some countries have different decks; merely calling it a "standard deck" or a "52-card deck".
The confusion about the French deck turns out to be harmless, it seems. An American game Telsina strips down the deck and some people seem to nickname this new deck as the "French deck" but I couldn't find any explanation for how this makes it French. http://eupokersite.com/telesina/
So there you have it; we don't need to be confused about the names anymore; it's the "French deck" and has been for centuries. If anyone is keen to improve the sources, looking in Hoyle's book of rules would be a good place to look. I don't have the book myself so I couldn't check. Owen214 ( talk) 10:24, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Currently there is a picture of some cards, captioned, "Medieval gambling cards, c.1377." The image shows hearts, clubs, diamonds and spades, so these cards must be from later than 1480. Ordinary Person ( talk) 08:03, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Capitalization of the word "pack" in the article varies. The word generally should not be capitalized since it's not a proper noun. I won't change the article because I'm not certain, but it seems the word is incorrectly capitalized in several places in the article. Evonj ( talk) 13:52, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
I wanted to see if it would be appropriate to insert this image (and some form of the caption) in this article. Thanks- Godot13 ( talk) 03:39, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
Surprised there's no mention that the standard design of cards with 2 sets of pips are designed for a right handed player. If the cards are fanned by a naturally left handed person, then the pips are all obscured.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bicycle-Lefty-Deck-Playing-Handed/dp/B0030B6W7Q
This doesn't happen with cards which have a 4-pip design (e.g. Waddingtons in the UK).
I recognize that left-handed individuals might find it helpful to know about cards marketed toward left-handed people, however, it is not necessarily proven that a design with indices on the top-left corner are any actual bias towards holding cards a particular way. Given that, the two citations about supposed “left-handed” cards existing are two links to buy “left-handed” cards. That feels wrong to me, the citation links should be articles about the subject, not links that effectively promote these cards. Louie Mantia ( talk) 21:14, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
This is the earliest known depiction of card play, a miniature in a 14th-century manuscript of Meliadus or Guiron le Courtois (part of the romance also known as Palamedes; also known as Le Roman du Roy Meliadus de Lennoys), by Hélie de Boron.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Robertolyra ( talk • contribs) 00:39, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
In the Spanish Wikipedia version of this article it is mentioned that there was a ban of playing cards in Barcelona in 1310, however in the version in English no reference to this history is made whatsoever... The section on history might need some reviewing then in the English wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:1811:d10:8300:e946:f152:aef4:9fe7 ( talk • contribs) 19:24, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
"The most common type of playing card is that found in the French-suite" Shouldn't the chinese suite be the most common? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.26.154.6 ( talk) 04:02, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
Qiushufang, pretty strong research since 2020 is putting into doubt Needham's and others' supposed origin of playing cards as Yezi xi. Considering the important of the first paragraph in a Wikipedia section on the history of a thing, and considering the strength of this new evidence compared to Needham's well-known quantity over quality leading to frequent errors, I think it's appropriate to place the qualification succinctly in the first paragraph, not below as you have suggested. I still leave the reference to yezi xi basically intact as the dominant theory, but it should be prominently stated that this is recently in dispute. Hence the edits and deeper references, so as to allow future others to make further inquiry. More is needed on this: a good start would be to read Andrew Lo's paper carefully. Zelchenko ( talk) 01:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
The literal translation into English of the French suit names is not (Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs, Spades; these are merely their equivalents on English playing cards. The correct translation of the words themselves is Hearts, Tiles, Clovers and Pikes. Unfortunately we have repeated instances of well-meaning editors who fail to read what the line says: French – and decide it must be vandalism. This has just happened again and a BRD challenge has been raised (even though I was reverting a previous editors mistake.) But this debate will recur repeatedly unless we agree a consensus position, so let's address it head on. Looking back 500 edits (over five years ago), it was causing difficulty then and will do so in five years time without a firm resolution.
By the way, the citations for this are at the main article, French-suited playing cards.
IMO, we have some obvious choices:
1 Add a line giving the English suits (Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs, Spades). English is international too but the main purpose of having this as a line is to intercept these misguided "corrections"
2 Give the actual French names cœurs, carreaux, trèfles and piques
3 Ignore the names in French and
I think that's it but please extend as appropriate. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 22:44, 25 September 2023 (UTC). Revised to insert a new 2.3 and 3.3-- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 13:34, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Playing card article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 1826 days
![]() |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Could anyone include something indicating information about common card sizes? You commonly (in english-speaking countries) see cards listed as either bridge or poker size -- what's the difference? Are there any other sizes commonly used, eg I sometimes see decks advertised as pinochle decks. AxS 14:57, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Concerning the common sizes, I just measured a pack of Bicycle brand poker cards. They are definitely 63 mm by 88 mm. Are we sure the most common size is 62 and not 63 mm? Is it possible the common width has changed over time? -- Trakon 09:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Related to the sizes, the article states "The most common sizes for playing cards are poker size (2.5×3.5 inches (63.5×88.9 mm), or B8 size according to ISO 216) and bridge size (2.25×3.5 inches (56×87 mm)), the latter being narrower.[25]". The reference only states that the size is 2.3x3.5 inches and says nothing about B8 size. B8 size is not 2.3x3.5 inches, it is 62x88 mm, which is a different size. Which is it? I assume 2.5x3.5 because of the reference, but I can't be sure. Potatoj316 ( talk) 20:21, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Did this information get removed? I'd also like to see information on the overall card shape; I recall learning that the the current rectangular shape is relatively new, and that (for example) circular cards were once popular. Modern Poker-sized playing cards agree with B8 in ISO 216, which surely can't be coincidental, so this seems to suggest that this size can't be older than 1798. Joule36e5 ( talk) 07:40, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
After I noticed the inconsitencies and un-earnt credit in the naming of the standard deck here as the "Anglo-American deck", I did a bit of checking and now we can put this debate to rest. At these seemingly reliable sites, it just calls it the French deck straight up: http://www.answers.com/topic/playing-card http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/explain/docs/cards.asp http://www.briscolausa.com/howtoplay.htm http://www.gamblerinsight.com/index.php/poker/poker-room-reviews/poker/poker-articles/307-the-four-kings.html http://gamingzion.com/poker/france/ http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/417277/play-lost-cities-with-a-normal-poker-french-card-d Even other wikipedia pages refer to it as the French deck: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suit_%28cards%29 I was hoping to use the Bicycle website as a source, but I noticed that it translated Baccarat Chemin de Fer by the incorrect urban myth and also kept alive the urban myth that the Viet Cong were terrified of the Ace of Spades.
This site provided the best explanation as to why some people don't call it the French deck: http://www.cardplayer.com/cardplayer-magazines/65790-michael-mizrachi-23-14/articles/19403-court-cards The letters have been translated (from Roi to King for example) and the pictures are in a slightly different style. Still, as many of the previous sources have indicated, those differences are frivolous and just to be expected. The only mention I could find for why America has any claim to the name is because America introduced the Joker in order to play Bridge I think it was. What they failed to point out though is that the original French Tarot deck already had the fool which is depicted in the same way as the Joker and plays the same function as the Joker in Tarot. So it would be more correct to say that the Americans "brought back the joker". It might interest you to know that most people seemed to not even realise that some countries have different decks; merely calling it a "standard deck" or a "52-card deck".
The confusion about the French deck turns out to be harmless, it seems. An American game Telsina strips down the deck and some people seem to nickname this new deck as the "French deck" but I couldn't find any explanation for how this makes it French. http://eupokersite.com/telesina/
So there you have it; we don't need to be confused about the names anymore; it's the "French deck" and has been for centuries. If anyone is keen to improve the sources, looking in Hoyle's book of rules would be a good place to look. I don't have the book myself so I couldn't check. Owen214 ( talk) 10:24, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Currently there is a picture of some cards, captioned, "Medieval gambling cards, c.1377." The image shows hearts, clubs, diamonds and spades, so these cards must be from later than 1480. Ordinary Person ( talk) 08:03, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Capitalization of the word "pack" in the article varies. The word generally should not be capitalized since it's not a proper noun. I won't change the article because I'm not certain, but it seems the word is incorrectly capitalized in several places in the article. Evonj ( talk) 13:52, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
I wanted to see if it would be appropriate to insert this image (and some form of the caption) in this article. Thanks- Godot13 ( talk) 03:39, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
Surprised there's no mention that the standard design of cards with 2 sets of pips are designed for a right handed player. If the cards are fanned by a naturally left handed person, then the pips are all obscured.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bicycle-Lefty-Deck-Playing-Handed/dp/B0030B6W7Q
This doesn't happen with cards which have a 4-pip design (e.g. Waddingtons in the UK).
I recognize that left-handed individuals might find it helpful to know about cards marketed toward left-handed people, however, it is not necessarily proven that a design with indices on the top-left corner are any actual bias towards holding cards a particular way. Given that, the two citations about supposed “left-handed” cards existing are two links to buy “left-handed” cards. That feels wrong to me, the citation links should be articles about the subject, not links that effectively promote these cards. Louie Mantia ( talk) 21:14, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
This is the earliest known depiction of card play, a miniature in a 14th-century manuscript of Meliadus or Guiron le Courtois (part of the romance also known as Palamedes; also known as Le Roman du Roy Meliadus de Lennoys), by Hélie de Boron.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Robertolyra ( talk • contribs) 00:39, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
In the Spanish Wikipedia version of this article it is mentioned that there was a ban of playing cards in Barcelona in 1310, however in the version in English no reference to this history is made whatsoever... The section on history might need some reviewing then in the English wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:1811:d10:8300:e946:f152:aef4:9fe7 ( talk • contribs) 19:24, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
"The most common type of playing card is that found in the French-suite" Shouldn't the chinese suite be the most common? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.26.154.6 ( talk) 04:02, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
Qiushufang, pretty strong research since 2020 is putting into doubt Needham's and others' supposed origin of playing cards as Yezi xi. Considering the important of the first paragraph in a Wikipedia section on the history of a thing, and considering the strength of this new evidence compared to Needham's well-known quantity over quality leading to frequent errors, I think it's appropriate to place the qualification succinctly in the first paragraph, not below as you have suggested. I still leave the reference to yezi xi basically intact as the dominant theory, but it should be prominently stated that this is recently in dispute. Hence the edits and deeper references, so as to allow future others to make further inquiry. More is needed on this: a good start would be to read Andrew Lo's paper carefully. Zelchenko ( talk) 01:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
The literal translation into English of the French suit names is not (Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs, Spades; these are merely their equivalents on English playing cards. The correct translation of the words themselves is Hearts, Tiles, Clovers and Pikes. Unfortunately we have repeated instances of well-meaning editors who fail to read what the line says: French – and decide it must be vandalism. This has just happened again and a BRD challenge has been raised (even though I was reverting a previous editors mistake.) But this debate will recur repeatedly unless we agree a consensus position, so let's address it head on. Looking back 500 edits (over five years ago), it was causing difficulty then and will do so in five years time without a firm resolution.
By the way, the citations for this are at the main article, French-suited playing cards.
IMO, we have some obvious choices:
1 Add a line giving the English suits (Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs, Spades). English is international too but the main purpose of having this as a line is to intercept these misguided "corrections"
2 Give the actual French names cœurs, carreaux, trèfles and piques
3 Ignore the names in French and
I think that's it but please extend as appropriate. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 22:44, 25 September 2023 (UTC). Revised to insert a new 2.3 and 3.3-- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 13:34, 26 September 2023 (UTC)