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I noticed that a lot of the info about the RSX has been cut in the latest edit - I agree with this the article looks a lot neater now - however quite a lot of infomation is gone so I simply copied the lost infomation into a new page specifically for the RSX - I'm suprised someone hasn't made a separate page before. The link is RSX 'Reality Synthesizer'. Hopefully someone will have more info to put in it - any good? HappyVR 00:17, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Sony has said it will be expensive. The cost to produce the PS3 has been estimated to be $451. Also it was suggested that Sony would sell an add-on hard disk to allow Linux to run on the PS3. This suggest that they can not sell the PS3 for a loss. The realist price for the PS3 is then $450+. Daniel
They are suggesting a traditional PC box sales model for the PS3, not the sold at a loss model. -Daniel
-Daniel
Putting a price of $300 is unrealistic. You were confused about hard disk option. You are in violation of the wikipedia 3 revert rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR Let the consensus opinion stand. - Daniel
Why is it so important to list an expected price? Any number we put up there now is just speculation, any number of analysts will come up with estimated prices, and we can keep tossing around analyst sources left and right, it doesn't mean any of them are more valid then the other. We should just say that the price is still to be determined, leave in that sony mentioned it will be expencive, take out the references to the xbox 360's price and leave it up to the reader to go find rumors themselves.
If you guys remember the psp launch, analysts are infact frequently wrong, and sony doesn't automatically sell their systems for the same price over here that they do in japan.
The little pricing edit war really needs to stop, and we need to reach a compromize or you guys are gonna keep on going in this edit war over speculation, not even fact. Seraphim 22:37, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Notice the prices for the blu-ray disks that are coming out? http://www.blureporter.com/blu-ray/news/111 Manufacturors aren't stupid and they are aware of Sony's plans. They wouldn't be releasing these devices unless they feel they are competitive with Sony playstation 3. Because of this I'm expecting the PS3 to come out with a price as high as $650. Daniel.Cardenas 13:46, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
The Blue-Ray technology is Sony's, they can price it whatever they want. I expect the PS3 to retail somewhere between $300 and $400. Dionyseus 14:23, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Right now the only official sony word is spring 2006, and they reiterated spring 2006 at CES.
However the article currently says May 2006 based on a gameshout article that was posted 2 days before CES. Now I don't mean to sound mean or anything, but "Gameshout" is not a major game news network, why would sony give them such a HUGE exclusive? An exclusive that they didn't even mention at a major press conference 2 days later. Also in one of their posts today http://www.gameshout.com/news/012006/article2370.htm they completly contradict themselves. And switch back to the spring 2006 date. And on top of that they say that "Sony also mentions that the Sony PS3 will be unveiled at the annual video game conference E3 in Los Angeles" since E3 is in may, if that's true, they would be announcing the release of their system and releasing it within 30 days globally. That's not gonna happen. Even more contradiction "Just yesterday at CES, Sony said that they will have a Blu-ray disc player in "Summer 2006"." there are going to be no BD players untill a few months after PS3 launches?
I'm going to remove the may 2006 dates and revert them to the Spring 2006 official line. Also i'm going to remove the Gameshout Link because it's obviously not a valid source. Seraphim 02:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Northern Hemisphere release in summer is wrong and should be removed. North America is correct. Unlikely release in that time frame to China, India, Russia, etc... Daniel.Cardenas 06:19, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Either way, right now the latest word from sony is a generic 2006, all sources from before they made that annoucement are no longer the most up to date info, and therefore the "2006" is what should be posted. Seraphim 06:49, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
In a press report by Sandisk which has a date of January 5,2006 , there is the following statement: "And early announcements from both Sony and Nintendo have indicated that their next-generation game consoles – PlayStation3 for Sony and Revolution for Nintendo – will also support USB connections when the consoles go on sale next year." Seeing as the press release has the date of the current year, 2006, could it mean a 2007 release of the PS3, even if its only true for the North American market? The source of this is [2] NeOak 04:09, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't believe the following paragraph in the main page adds much value to people wanting PS3 info:
For example MFG cost is not mentioned elsewhere except in that sentence, so it seems out of place. Should the paragraph be deleted? Daniel.Cardenas 16:26, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Note that at the time Merril Lynch posted their analysis, 54,000 yen was worth $494, but today is worth $458. As for the paragraph, I say it should stay, it is normal for consoles to be sold at a lower price than it's actual MFG cost, the Xbox 360 for example is sold for $126 cheaper than the MFG cost. Dionyseus 13:45, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Is it fair to say that the demos were pre-rendered? If someone could send me some sort of proof about how they know that the demos are pre-rendered then okay but I think that the section about the demos should state something along the lines of how it is unknown whether or not these were pre-rendered or real-time demos. Jondy 21:30, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
(Line Break because of brand new developments)
I have removed the Killzone 3 "screenshot" from the screenshots section. It is now proven to be CG and is misleading to put it under the "screenshots". Either put a disclaimer or don't show the image.
The Killzone 3 footage was NOT pre-rendered and sped up to speed. That was confirmed bogus by gamespot months ago. There is absolutely no reason to have an image so misleading under "screenshots". It's not a screenshot, it's CG. Confirmed CG by Blur's president http://youtube.com/w/GameHead-Killzone-PS3-Interview?v=SWo3Memcbxs . There should either be a disclaimer or removal of that image. And no, me removing the image isn't "Vandalism" like some moron thinks. The image has nothing to do with PS3 hardware.
"At one time there was a rumor started by PSM article, that the footage was in fact rendered with in-game engine on a PS3 alpha kit at ~5 FPS (frames per second), recorded, and sped up to 60 FPS for the presentation (pre-rendered, technically). This was before more recent developments proving the footage was infact CG."
Cut the crap, the Killzone 3 image IS CG, and it IS misleading to put it under the section "Screenshots". -TRega123 1/26/06 7:10PM EST
What do you think about putting back the estimated price at $400+ based on this article: http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/11/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/ ::
Also what about putting an estimated release date of Summer 2006 for North America? Daniel.Cardenas 18:12, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't see the point of having the link to http://www.ps3focus.com/ in the article. The ign site and the blog site we have on there (ps3guide) do a much better job of covering the same news. And this isn't suppossed to be a link repository. So remove? Seraphim 06:07, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
I am changing the comments on overall floating point performance to more accurately reflect the information that we have available to us right now. I want to make it clear what my reasoning for these changes is:
Firstly, I would like to update the calculations regarding the total floating point performance of the Cell microprocessor. According to IBM's Paper on the design and implementation of the Cell, an individual SPE has a peak floating point capacity of 25.6 GFLOPS in single precision. The 7 enabled SPEs in the PS3's Cell would total a theoretical maximum of 179.2 GFLOPS. This is in addition to the performance of the VMX unit in the PPE, which we do not have definite numbers for. However, the PPE in the Cell is the result of the same design process that led to the 3 symmetric cores in the Xbox 360's Xenon CPU, which also have one VMX-128 unit each. Based on Microsoft's marketing, the theoretical peak performance of the Xenon is 115 GFLOPS. Dividing by 3, the performance of a single core's VMX unit should be about 38.3 GFLOPS, which we can take to be a reasonable approximation for the PPE in the Cell. The total single-precision floating point performance of the Cell should then be 218 GFLOPS. I want to emphasize, here, that my calculation is in line with Sony's own marketing materials, as well as the performance of IBM's server blades (about 200 GFLOPS for one 3.0 GHz cell). I would also like to emphasize that this theoretical maximum performance would be well-nigh impossible to achieve in real-world applications. The IBM report referenced above details testing which indicates that SPEs can be expected to achieve about 75.9% of their maximum performance under normal operation.
Secondly, I am changing the comments that indicated that the Cell is equal to or slightly better than the Xbox 360's CPU at floating point tasks. When we use IBM's factor of 75.9%, the Cell will still perform at over 165 GFLOPS (or 136 GFLOPS for the SPEs alone), which is significantly higher than the XBox 360's theoretical maximum of 115 GFLOPS (of course, real world performance for the 360 can be expected to be reduced by a similar factor). I am returning the article to the old language which read "considerably higher".
Spoonboy42 03:50, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Finally, all this information about the theoretical and estimated practical performance of the Cell in particular and the PS3 in general well bear a disclaimer indicating that all calculations are a theoretical maximum based on a best-case scenario. The 75.9% performance factor will be mentioned, as will the fact that specifications may change before the PS3 is launched. The difficulty in optimizing for the Cell architecture will also be addressed.
Spoonboy42 03:50, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Copied over from archive for clarity. And made noted corrections again. Xkxdxmx 17:46, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
The 75% performance is during video rendering and Cg image, not gameplay. I saw that benchmark result, its approximately 50%
Someone needs to explain to me why adding an advisory on the top of the screenshot section is vandalism. Is the statement not true, is it not fair, does it not impart useful information given that every other console's screenshoot section with an article on wikipeadia has screenshoots from actual game play? Without the notice anyone would draw the wrong impression when compared to other like articles in the encyclopedia.
According to this article, Sony has changed their mind on the online issue. Should we update the appropriate section or wait for more confirmation?
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29148
Willy Arnold 23:55, January 20, 2006 (EST)
According to this article, Sony is indeed going to provide an Xbox Live type service. the1physicist 02:47, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
This comment appears in the external links section:
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Basically, this scares away editors that just want to add links in good faith. If someone does indeed add a spam link then this article is on enough people's watchlist that the link will be swiftly removed. Therefore, I propose removing the disclaimer from the links section. Thoughts? Jaco plane 20:16, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
<!--================================================================--> <!-- Please follow wikipedia policy on external links. --> <!-- that can be found on the page WP:EL --> <!--If you have a link that you want added please use the talk page --> <!-- to explain why you feel it should be included in the article. --> <!-- Doing so will let other editors understand what you are doing --> <!-- and will prevent misunderstandings from turning into reverts. --> <!--================================================================-->
The cell is a standard processor. There is a page for it already, if people want thousands of numbers on the Cell they can go to the cell processor wikipage. The only relevant information is that the ps3 has a cell processor with 7 active SPE's.
Because the Cell is a generic chipset, and not custom made for the PS3 it would be redundant to list all it's specs here. Note: This doesn't apply to some of the other game consoles since they run custom processors. Same with it not applying to the RSX section since that is a custom chip for the PS3.
Also the ps3 specific cell performance numbers are already mentioned or covered in the Overall Floating-Point capability section. Seraphim 05:55, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
I have been going through the resources in the article trying to see if I can find better ones, and I noticed something very odd about the reference link for the Linux/GNU section ( http://ps3.ign.com/articles/624/624046p1.html). The headline is not "Sony confirms PS3 will run Linux", the headline is "Sony Considers Linux for PS3 Hard Disk". And infact if you read the article it says " Kutaragi makes it clear that even with a terabyte worth of network storage, for the PS3 system to be recognized as a computer, it needs to have a drive running an operating system." he says that with the unique Cell OS it allows other OS'es like Tiger or Linux to run over it. Nowhere in the article does it say that the PS3 HD will run linux. So of course my interest kicked in and I started investigating.
I cannot find any source at all that has confirmation from sony that Linux will be on the PS3 HD. Everywhere I turn it's "considered" or "may", and the article on gamespot that most of the blog posts use as a source was actually deleted from gamespot (it doesn't show up when viewing all the site news for the day it's URL says it was posted 6/9/2005). It seems like it's a misunderstanding of the translation of a website interview with Ken Kutaragi that got out of hand. This is what appears to be the correct translation of the interview. ""But people won't recognize it as a computer unless we call it a computer, so we're going to run an OS on it. In fact, the Cell can run multiple OSes. In order to run the OSes, we need a hard disk. So in order to declare that the PS3 is a computer, I think we'll have [the hard disk] preinstalled with Linux as a bonus. " If you notice he doesn't confirm it, he says "I think". Other translations of it have him saying "may". He also says " "The kernel will be running on the Cell, and multiple OSes will be running on top of that as applications. Of course, the PS3 can run Linux. If Linux can run, so can Lindows. Other PC Operating Systems can run too, such as Windows and (Mac OS) Tiger, if the publishers want to do so. Maybe a new OS might come out," nowhere in that conversation did he ever say that the harddrive would come with linux pre-installed. Just do a google search and you will see what i'm talking about. Take for example the first google hit http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23878 the Headline is "Playstation 3 hard disk to run Linux" but the actual article says "Entertainment boss Ken Kutaragi has suggested the upcoming Playstation 3 will come equipped with a hard disk. And the hard disk may come with Linux pre-installed." It is my conclusion that in the Kutaragi - Impress PC Watch he never actually confirmed that the HD would come with linux on it, he was speculating. And other then that Interview I cannot find any other official sources from sony that say that the drive will come with linux on it.
I realize that this may sound a bit like a conspiracy theory, however this is an encyclopedia, and our information needs to have reliable factual sources. Since one does not exist for this section right now I am going to remove it. I am also going to e-mail IGN's PS3 department about this since they say in their PS3 FAQ "Additionally, the drive will come with a version of Linux pre-installed, thereby making the PlayStation 3 a full-fledged PC as soon as the HD is installed. ". However they have posted no news that works as a source for that statement (According to google and the search string "linux site:ps3.ign.com", and I want to know where they got that information from.
If you can find an official straight from sony source other then the Kutaragi interview with Impress PC Watch please re-post the section and add the new source. Seraphim 05:57, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Also the rest of that section is about the Cell Chip in general not the PS3 so i'm removing that section since the information is already found on the Cell Processor page. The fact that there is an IBM Linux Distro that can run on the Cell Processor is not relevant to the Playstation 3. Seraphim 06:02, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
This article, IGN: New PS3 Tools, mentions a tool that Devs can use to generate .dds and RGBA8888 image files for use in the PS3. It also mentions that S3TC(DXT1-5) compression can be utilized as well. Does anyone think this data is relevant enough to be added to the article?
For further reading, here's a translation of Optix's main site -- n00b 23:08, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if we should make a new section for technology ps3 game studio have sublicensed... note that this "Optix Imagestudio" isn't part of Sony's the Sony SDK for the PS3. It is up individual studios to decide to license it. It is like photoshop, which is used by plenty of game studios but isn't unique to the particular platform the game runs on. What do you guys think?
Well that is more part of the video card technology then, for example DDS is a compression format for Direct X.
Current content:
"The PS3 will not be backward-compatible with some of the hardware peripherals of the PS2. For example, memory cards for PlayStation and PlayStation 2 will not work on the PlayStation 3 hardware. [18] Instead it was announced that the PS3 will only use the Sony Memory Stick to save games via MagicGate. This means that the PS3 will not be able to use PS1 and PS2 memory cards; however, this will allow gamers to trade saved games over the Internet more easily. Also, Memory Stick will also be compatible with both PS1 and PS2 games, Unlike PS2's memory card."
I believe the content about the memory stick is irrelevant. Being able to trade game saves is not relevent to the compatibility of PS2 memory devices. The fact that the new storage media is a memory stick and is "cool" is not relevent when discussing what PS2 peripherals work with the PS3. Nor is the PS2 software back-compat story relevent relevent when discussing what PS2 hardware will work with the PS3.
This content should be present in the article somewhere, but not in this section.
I've tried to fix this up once, but it was reverted. Instead of getting into an edit pissing match, I decided to solicit feedback here before changing it back again. 24.18.202.92
I don't fully agree with this: "may fare better on dynamically branching code, like that used for artificial intelligence.". The wording seems to stipulate that all artificial intelligence relies on dynamically branching code. While this may be true for the kind of simplistic rule-based approaches commonly used in computer games today, it is hardly true for more advanced approaches to AI such as artificial neural networks or support vector machines. In fact, many of the algorithms used in these methods are known for being massively parallelisable. They may not have entered the computer games sector to any extent yet, but a stream oriented processor such as the Cell provides an interesting opportunity. -- Grahn 21:20, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
But this phrases is faily speculative, is there a source for it? Sounds like original research.
This is to the people that keep adding that the PS3 will be capable of being a DVR. Please stop adding this. There is no possible way to pass video and audio signals into the PS3 from an outside source, therefore it's impossible for the PS3 to record video and audio. Unless they all of asudden announce a redesign and the addition of audio/video in jacks this is 100% impossible. Seraphim 21:15, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I think at the moment, this is little more than rumors and probably breaks Wikipedia:Verifiability. Probably best to wait until more concrete details are available. Jaco plane 22:14, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Word on the street [ [3]] is that this will be really hard to program for, and according to John Carmack in an interview with PC Gamer magazine (January) that the PS3 dev kits are still at a primitive stage. Shouldn't this be in the page? I'm too lazy to add it myself. A Clown in the Dark 22:12, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Here is a technical article on game programming difficulty:
Daniel.Cardenas 04:23, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
These are the current external links on the page
I suggest we keep the "Playstation 3 at playstation.com", "Sony Japan Playstation 3 site", "Playstation 3 Explosions Demo" and "Sony E3 Public Contention 2005" links because they are all official sony content. I suggest we remove the "Sony may swap proprietary API for 'Open' one EE Times" link on the fact that it is speculative in nature "may", and that we remove the "Hands-On with PlayStation 3" link due to the fact that it cannot be proven to be anything more than creative writing. Seraphim 01:49, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
This has been up for over a week. I'm removing the EE Times link because it's speculation ("may" in the title), and the Kikizo article due to it having 0 verifiable content. Seraphim 21:42, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
The Sony PS3 article is about what we as a community believe is going to happen. It should not be about whatever Sony wants us to believe. We are not their marketing pawns, to propagate their half truths. Nothing in the article is verifiable from that perspective. We as a community need to agree and add our subjectiveness to whatever information is available even if it comes from Sony. Daniel.Cardenas 22:38, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
You wish to talk? Pure inuyasha 02:27, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I propose we merge Playstation network into this article. First of all, the former isn't verifiably proved to be the service that will actually be. For all we know at the moment, the PS3 might come with the same decentralized service as PS2 has. Plus, the article is very short and the service is directly tied to the PS3. — Ilyan e p (Talk) 02:27, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Sony has stated that they will have a unified online service. And a trustworthy source supports the PSN. Pure inuyasha 02:29, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I think i remember hearing this at either http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/ or http://www.ps3forums.com/ The latter of which is highly trustworthy.
I'd like to point out that the Playstation Network page was deleted this morning. 01:00, February 15, 2006 Marudubshinki deleted "Playstation network" (agree with justificaions re CITE and crystal ball)
I've added a verify tag on this article. Pure inuyasha 02:42, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
In the bit about the storage it says that it will have a removable hard drive with linux installed. this is not verified. Pure inuyasha 02:48, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
The harddrive isn't verified either. Pure inuyasha 02:51, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
What is the difference between BD-RE and BD-RW? The wikipedya entry about Bluray only mentiones BD-RE as rewriteable. Perhaps we need to update the Bluray entry? -- Pinnecco 08:45, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
If you go to http://playstation.com/products.html and scroll to the bottom of the Playstation 3 spec sheet it says "Storage Media(HDD, "Memory Stick", SD Memory Card, and Compact Flash) are sold separately." This is now confirmation that the PS3 will not come with a HD standard (Sony has already confirmed only 1 SKU this will not be like the Xbox 360 with 2 versions, 1 with and 1 without a HD) Seraphim 06:57, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I dunno if you all wiki have the tech spec (real) or not. But here is the tech spec [6]
How much faith can we have in a company that changes its BOM estimates from $500 to $800? And they can't seem to add up the numbers in their article correctly. I suspect ML drove up their estimate at the urging of Sony because Sony wants initial estimates of the PS3 to be high so that they can look like hero's when they actually deliver the unit lower than rumored . Daniel.Cardenas 13:29, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
It should be pointed out that the BOM Price is 900 dollars, they put down the RSX as costing 70 dollars and over 3 years dropping to 50 dollars. It's obviously a typo, and the RSX is suppossed to go for 170 dollars dropping to 50 dollars over 3 years. Seraphim 00:26, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
A recap of the problems with this report:
Xkxdxmx 22:19, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Can someone like fix that section of the page.
I dunno if this information has been added, but the ps3 (xboxlive) will be called HUB. It will be released around September. I would add the data, but don't wanna waste my time typing later reverted. Here is the source [7]
I presented my point of view about Sony being a verafiable source at the wikipedia village pump policy discussion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29#About_Future_Products I encourage to post your comments here or there. Here is what I stated:
Articles about future products cite the company as the main source of verifiable information. The problem occurs when the marketing department of a company purposely distorts what is likely to happen in order to gain a market advantage. Example: it is in Sony's interest to keep potential game purchases believing the PS3 will be released soon in order to hold off purchases of XBox 360. It may not matter that there are many credible rumors out there that there is no chance of a significant release of the product within the company stated time frame because the company is verifiable and the other sources aren't. In my opinion Wikipedia policy of NPOV is in contradition with verifiability in this example, since most people looking at the situation would agree on a different release date then the one the company is publishing.
So what is the solution?
* Don't allow discussion about future products * Add a disclaimer to verifiability, saying that NPOV has a higher precedence. * Add a disclaimer to verifiability: statements companies make about future products need to be subject to community opinion on probability of being true. * Add a policy about future products. Everything is speculation and that the community needs to agree on what is most likely to occur and not the company. Yes company stated information is usually 95% accurate.
In conclusion if we continue the current course of policy we become pawns for companies marketing departments to add credence to their half truths.
What is your opinion? Should articles about future products be about what the company says or should it be subject to our own opinion of what is most likely to happen?
Does this look familiar? (User showed the infobox from the main article page, I have removed it because it destroyed the talk page layout ~Sera) Daniel.Cardenas 13:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi. Q2 means April to June right. And its febuary now. Thats a long time. I can't see why you are so uncertain about this. The only infomation I've got supposedly from Sony is that they are 'aiming for spring release' - thats Q2. HappyVR 19:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a debate going on here as to the validity of two separate types of sources - manufacturers and journalists. Frankly since journalists produce nothing more substantial than paper I tend to regard ants slightly more highly. In general the manufacturer of a product has a clear advantage in believability. (even if it's Sony) (and please stop arguing) HappyVR 19:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I removed this:
Also possibly complicating the controller design is Sony's ongoing legal battle with Immersion Corporation of San Jose. In March 2005, Sony and Microsoft were sued by force-feedback company Immersion for patent infringement for the use of vibration functions in their controllers. While Microsoft settled out of court, Sony continued to defend the case. Sony lost, and has been required to pay considerable royalties to Immersion and suspend the sale of the controllers, including all PlayStation and PlayStation 2 console packages containing them. Sony has appealed this decision and will be able to sell its products while the case is under appeal.
My reason is that this (i.e. the patent 'battle') doesn't affect the exterior design which seems to be the point of contention here. HappyVR 00:59, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Then I removed this:
Unconfirmed reports suggest that the PS3 may in fact support the older DualShock 2 controllers, however, this is thought to be true due to the PlayStation 3 striving to attain backwards compatibility. The number of ports to support such backward compatibility would most likely be limited to one, although this is also an unconfirmed rumour. The PS3's specifications, and E3 display units, don't support DualShock controller ports. Though Sony itself had previously admitted at this past E3 that the controller design for their PlayStation 3 console was not finalized, GameSpot believes any purported changes will not be substantial. Their downplays concerning a rumor suggesting Sony would unveil a revamped PS3 controller at the Consumer Electronics Show in January 2006 were sound, as the controller was not shown in any form during the event.
My reason for removing this was the lack of references supporting it. As for the final shape and function of the controllers I guess we will have to wait and see HappyVR 01:10, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
User:SeraphimIX stated in an edit summary "Manufacturing costs - the old ml article is obsolete, it stated that they were using estimated costs for alot of things, the new one is an update with actual costs, they consider the old one false" but in the new article (.pdf file page 3 top right table) these costs are still estimates. I haven't found any cross reference between the two estimates - Can anyone provide a reference? My reason for adding the older estimates was that I felt it gave the necessary 'pinch of salt' to these figures - I have no reason to be believe that they are either 'right' or 'wrong'. I also have no reason to believe that ML has access to Sony's 'cost sheets' either.( I consider them at best educated guesses.) Do these two ML articles really have any more validity than any 'Joe Blogg's' guess on any talk page? If there was a rumour section in this article (as there is in the Nintendo Revoluyion article) I would put this ML stuff there.. Especially in the absence of any evidence that these analysts know anything about the costs manufacturing electronics. I could go on. HappyVR 01:57, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
O.K. Thanks - I now know why the old report no longer applies. However it still seems a matter of debate as to whether the new figures are actually more accurate. (I agree with User:HQ). I'm suggesting that the report has no validity and should not be included at all. However I'm not really qualified to judge - but neither is there any evidence that the analysts at Merrill Lynch have any real infomation to work on either. If I describe myself as an independant finacial analyst and produce a web page containing a pdf document estimating the cost to produce a PS3 as less than £200 would that qualify for inclusion in any encyclopedia? By comparison my hypothetical report seems to have no less validity than Merrill Lynch's. The web is full of infomation 'from insiders' and I would recommend that any reference to Merrill Lynch be removed from the page. HappyVR 04:42, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
By the way the hardward specifications section is way out. After the introductory paragraph the text reads:
According to a press release by Sony at the May 16, 2005 E3 Conference, the specifications of the PlayStation 3 are as follows. [9]
But the following text
a. Does not match sony's released specs accuratly
e.g. there is 1 vmx on ppe the vector units on spe are not identical to vmx and some extra info has been included e.g 76.8 GB Cell FlexIO bus (not in sony's pdf) must be from ibm?
b. The tech data is interspersed with extraneous info
e.g. NVidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang stated during Sony's pre-show press conference at E3 2005 that the RSX will be more powerful than two GeForce 6800 Ultra video cards combined.
I don't think anything here is incorrect? but it could do with cleaning up and references included to the new infomation - its become disjointed. Also some tech info has gone e.g. ppe cache size, spe local mem . Anyone ? HappyVR 04:42, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I have attempted to clean this up a bit. The introduction states the info is from a sony conference [8] so any data not from this should have its own reference. Below are the bits that need references:
These are cell specs but were not in the above reference
Also this I think may be technically incorrect unless infomation is provided showing that the RSX can simultaneously read or write from two separate memory locations at the same time:
Since the RSX is connected to the XDR DRAM and GDDR3 RAM similar to a Turbo Cached GPU it can access both memory locations at the exact same time. This gives the RSX an effective 48 GB/s when sending data to/from GPU and RAM.
This info is not from the pdf and is duplicated in the RSX section I intend to remove it soon:
NVidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang stated during Sony's pre-show press conference at E3 2005 that the RSX will be more powerful than two GeForce 6800 Ultra video cards combined.
HappyVR 17:27, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Also this:
The 8th SPE is there for redundancy: if one of the other 7 are defective the 8th SPE will activate and stand in for the defective part.
I suggest removing this. Was this speculation - from what I have read it seems that it is now thought that the eigth SPE will be used for DRM. Does anyone have the most recent answer? HappyVR 17:47, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I have suggested this page be archived soon and a new talk page started because the page is getting very long. HappyVR 22:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
I noticed that a lot of the info about the RSX has been cut in the latest edit - I agree with this the article looks a lot neater now - however quite a lot of infomation is gone so I simply copied the lost infomation into a new page specifically for the RSX - I'm suprised someone hasn't made a separate page before. The link is RSX 'Reality Synthesizer'. Hopefully someone will have more info to put in it - any good? HappyVR 00:17, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Sony has said it will be expensive. The cost to produce the PS3 has been estimated to be $451. Also it was suggested that Sony would sell an add-on hard disk to allow Linux to run on the PS3. This suggest that they can not sell the PS3 for a loss. The realist price for the PS3 is then $450+. Daniel
They are suggesting a traditional PC box sales model for the PS3, not the sold at a loss model. -Daniel
-Daniel
Putting a price of $300 is unrealistic. You were confused about hard disk option. You are in violation of the wikipedia 3 revert rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR Let the consensus opinion stand. - Daniel
Why is it so important to list an expected price? Any number we put up there now is just speculation, any number of analysts will come up with estimated prices, and we can keep tossing around analyst sources left and right, it doesn't mean any of them are more valid then the other. We should just say that the price is still to be determined, leave in that sony mentioned it will be expencive, take out the references to the xbox 360's price and leave it up to the reader to go find rumors themselves.
If you guys remember the psp launch, analysts are infact frequently wrong, and sony doesn't automatically sell their systems for the same price over here that they do in japan.
The little pricing edit war really needs to stop, and we need to reach a compromize or you guys are gonna keep on going in this edit war over speculation, not even fact. Seraphim 22:37, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Notice the prices for the blu-ray disks that are coming out? http://www.blureporter.com/blu-ray/news/111 Manufacturors aren't stupid and they are aware of Sony's plans. They wouldn't be releasing these devices unless they feel they are competitive with Sony playstation 3. Because of this I'm expecting the PS3 to come out with a price as high as $650. Daniel.Cardenas 13:46, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
The Blue-Ray technology is Sony's, they can price it whatever they want. I expect the PS3 to retail somewhere between $300 and $400. Dionyseus 14:23, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Right now the only official sony word is spring 2006, and they reiterated spring 2006 at CES.
However the article currently says May 2006 based on a gameshout article that was posted 2 days before CES. Now I don't mean to sound mean or anything, but "Gameshout" is not a major game news network, why would sony give them such a HUGE exclusive? An exclusive that they didn't even mention at a major press conference 2 days later. Also in one of their posts today http://www.gameshout.com/news/012006/article2370.htm they completly contradict themselves. And switch back to the spring 2006 date. And on top of that they say that "Sony also mentions that the Sony PS3 will be unveiled at the annual video game conference E3 in Los Angeles" since E3 is in may, if that's true, they would be announcing the release of their system and releasing it within 30 days globally. That's not gonna happen. Even more contradiction "Just yesterday at CES, Sony said that they will have a Blu-ray disc player in "Summer 2006"." there are going to be no BD players untill a few months after PS3 launches?
I'm going to remove the may 2006 dates and revert them to the Spring 2006 official line. Also i'm going to remove the Gameshout Link because it's obviously not a valid source. Seraphim 02:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Northern Hemisphere release in summer is wrong and should be removed. North America is correct. Unlikely release in that time frame to China, India, Russia, etc... Daniel.Cardenas 06:19, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Either way, right now the latest word from sony is a generic 2006, all sources from before they made that annoucement are no longer the most up to date info, and therefore the "2006" is what should be posted. Seraphim 06:49, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
In a press report by Sandisk which has a date of January 5,2006 , there is the following statement: "And early announcements from both Sony and Nintendo have indicated that their next-generation game consoles – PlayStation3 for Sony and Revolution for Nintendo – will also support USB connections when the consoles go on sale next year." Seeing as the press release has the date of the current year, 2006, could it mean a 2007 release of the PS3, even if its only true for the North American market? The source of this is [2] NeOak 04:09, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't believe the following paragraph in the main page adds much value to people wanting PS3 info:
For example MFG cost is not mentioned elsewhere except in that sentence, so it seems out of place. Should the paragraph be deleted? Daniel.Cardenas 16:26, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Note that at the time Merril Lynch posted their analysis, 54,000 yen was worth $494, but today is worth $458. As for the paragraph, I say it should stay, it is normal for consoles to be sold at a lower price than it's actual MFG cost, the Xbox 360 for example is sold for $126 cheaper than the MFG cost. Dionyseus 13:45, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Is it fair to say that the demos were pre-rendered? If someone could send me some sort of proof about how they know that the demos are pre-rendered then okay but I think that the section about the demos should state something along the lines of how it is unknown whether or not these were pre-rendered or real-time demos. Jondy 21:30, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
(Line Break because of brand new developments)
I have removed the Killzone 3 "screenshot" from the screenshots section. It is now proven to be CG and is misleading to put it under the "screenshots". Either put a disclaimer or don't show the image.
The Killzone 3 footage was NOT pre-rendered and sped up to speed. That was confirmed bogus by gamespot months ago. There is absolutely no reason to have an image so misleading under "screenshots". It's not a screenshot, it's CG. Confirmed CG by Blur's president http://youtube.com/w/GameHead-Killzone-PS3-Interview?v=SWo3Memcbxs . There should either be a disclaimer or removal of that image. And no, me removing the image isn't "Vandalism" like some moron thinks. The image has nothing to do with PS3 hardware.
"At one time there was a rumor started by PSM article, that the footage was in fact rendered with in-game engine on a PS3 alpha kit at ~5 FPS (frames per second), recorded, and sped up to 60 FPS for the presentation (pre-rendered, technically). This was before more recent developments proving the footage was infact CG."
Cut the crap, the Killzone 3 image IS CG, and it IS misleading to put it under the section "Screenshots". -TRega123 1/26/06 7:10PM EST
What do you think about putting back the estimated price at $400+ based on this article: http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/11/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/ ::
Also what about putting an estimated release date of Summer 2006 for North America? Daniel.Cardenas 18:12, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't see the point of having the link to http://www.ps3focus.com/ in the article. The ign site and the blog site we have on there (ps3guide) do a much better job of covering the same news. And this isn't suppossed to be a link repository. So remove? Seraphim 06:07, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
I am changing the comments on overall floating point performance to more accurately reflect the information that we have available to us right now. I want to make it clear what my reasoning for these changes is:
Firstly, I would like to update the calculations regarding the total floating point performance of the Cell microprocessor. According to IBM's Paper on the design and implementation of the Cell, an individual SPE has a peak floating point capacity of 25.6 GFLOPS in single precision. The 7 enabled SPEs in the PS3's Cell would total a theoretical maximum of 179.2 GFLOPS. This is in addition to the performance of the VMX unit in the PPE, which we do not have definite numbers for. However, the PPE in the Cell is the result of the same design process that led to the 3 symmetric cores in the Xbox 360's Xenon CPU, which also have one VMX-128 unit each. Based on Microsoft's marketing, the theoretical peak performance of the Xenon is 115 GFLOPS. Dividing by 3, the performance of a single core's VMX unit should be about 38.3 GFLOPS, which we can take to be a reasonable approximation for the PPE in the Cell. The total single-precision floating point performance of the Cell should then be 218 GFLOPS. I want to emphasize, here, that my calculation is in line with Sony's own marketing materials, as well as the performance of IBM's server blades (about 200 GFLOPS for one 3.0 GHz cell). I would also like to emphasize that this theoretical maximum performance would be well-nigh impossible to achieve in real-world applications. The IBM report referenced above details testing which indicates that SPEs can be expected to achieve about 75.9% of their maximum performance under normal operation.
Secondly, I am changing the comments that indicated that the Cell is equal to or slightly better than the Xbox 360's CPU at floating point tasks. When we use IBM's factor of 75.9%, the Cell will still perform at over 165 GFLOPS (or 136 GFLOPS for the SPEs alone), which is significantly higher than the XBox 360's theoretical maximum of 115 GFLOPS (of course, real world performance for the 360 can be expected to be reduced by a similar factor). I am returning the article to the old language which read "considerably higher".
Spoonboy42 03:50, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Finally, all this information about the theoretical and estimated practical performance of the Cell in particular and the PS3 in general well bear a disclaimer indicating that all calculations are a theoretical maximum based on a best-case scenario. The 75.9% performance factor will be mentioned, as will the fact that specifications may change before the PS3 is launched. The difficulty in optimizing for the Cell architecture will also be addressed.
Spoonboy42 03:50, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Copied over from archive for clarity. And made noted corrections again. Xkxdxmx 17:46, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
The 75% performance is during video rendering and Cg image, not gameplay. I saw that benchmark result, its approximately 50%
Someone needs to explain to me why adding an advisory on the top of the screenshot section is vandalism. Is the statement not true, is it not fair, does it not impart useful information given that every other console's screenshoot section with an article on wikipeadia has screenshoots from actual game play? Without the notice anyone would draw the wrong impression when compared to other like articles in the encyclopedia.
According to this article, Sony has changed their mind on the online issue. Should we update the appropriate section or wait for more confirmation?
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29148
Willy Arnold 23:55, January 20, 2006 (EST)
According to this article, Sony is indeed going to provide an Xbox Live type service. the1physicist 02:47, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
This comment appears in the external links section:
<!--=========================================================--> <!-- DO NOT ADD MORE LINKS: THIS SITE IS NOT A LINK DEPOSITORY --> <!-- If you have a link that you want added please --> <!-- use the talk page before you post anything. --> <!--=========================================================-->
Basically, this scares away editors that just want to add links in good faith. If someone does indeed add a spam link then this article is on enough people's watchlist that the link will be swiftly removed. Therefore, I propose removing the disclaimer from the links section. Thoughts? Jaco plane 20:16, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
<!--================================================================--> <!-- Please follow wikipedia policy on external links. --> <!-- that can be found on the page WP:EL --> <!--If you have a link that you want added please use the talk page --> <!-- to explain why you feel it should be included in the article. --> <!-- Doing so will let other editors understand what you are doing --> <!-- and will prevent misunderstandings from turning into reverts. --> <!--================================================================-->
The cell is a standard processor. There is a page for it already, if people want thousands of numbers on the Cell they can go to the cell processor wikipage. The only relevant information is that the ps3 has a cell processor with 7 active SPE's.
Because the Cell is a generic chipset, and not custom made for the PS3 it would be redundant to list all it's specs here. Note: This doesn't apply to some of the other game consoles since they run custom processors. Same with it not applying to the RSX section since that is a custom chip for the PS3.
Also the ps3 specific cell performance numbers are already mentioned or covered in the Overall Floating-Point capability section. Seraphim 05:55, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
I have been going through the resources in the article trying to see if I can find better ones, and I noticed something very odd about the reference link for the Linux/GNU section ( http://ps3.ign.com/articles/624/624046p1.html). The headline is not "Sony confirms PS3 will run Linux", the headline is "Sony Considers Linux for PS3 Hard Disk". And infact if you read the article it says " Kutaragi makes it clear that even with a terabyte worth of network storage, for the PS3 system to be recognized as a computer, it needs to have a drive running an operating system." he says that with the unique Cell OS it allows other OS'es like Tiger or Linux to run over it. Nowhere in the article does it say that the PS3 HD will run linux. So of course my interest kicked in and I started investigating.
I cannot find any source at all that has confirmation from sony that Linux will be on the PS3 HD. Everywhere I turn it's "considered" or "may", and the article on gamespot that most of the blog posts use as a source was actually deleted from gamespot (it doesn't show up when viewing all the site news for the day it's URL says it was posted 6/9/2005). It seems like it's a misunderstanding of the translation of a website interview with Ken Kutaragi that got out of hand. This is what appears to be the correct translation of the interview. ""But people won't recognize it as a computer unless we call it a computer, so we're going to run an OS on it. In fact, the Cell can run multiple OSes. In order to run the OSes, we need a hard disk. So in order to declare that the PS3 is a computer, I think we'll have [the hard disk] preinstalled with Linux as a bonus. " If you notice he doesn't confirm it, he says "I think". Other translations of it have him saying "may". He also says " "The kernel will be running on the Cell, and multiple OSes will be running on top of that as applications. Of course, the PS3 can run Linux. If Linux can run, so can Lindows. Other PC Operating Systems can run too, such as Windows and (Mac OS) Tiger, if the publishers want to do so. Maybe a new OS might come out," nowhere in that conversation did he ever say that the harddrive would come with linux pre-installed. Just do a google search and you will see what i'm talking about. Take for example the first google hit http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23878 the Headline is "Playstation 3 hard disk to run Linux" but the actual article says "Entertainment boss Ken Kutaragi has suggested the upcoming Playstation 3 will come equipped with a hard disk. And the hard disk may come with Linux pre-installed." It is my conclusion that in the Kutaragi - Impress PC Watch he never actually confirmed that the HD would come with linux on it, he was speculating. And other then that Interview I cannot find any other official sources from sony that say that the drive will come with linux on it.
I realize that this may sound a bit like a conspiracy theory, however this is an encyclopedia, and our information needs to have reliable factual sources. Since one does not exist for this section right now I am going to remove it. I am also going to e-mail IGN's PS3 department about this since they say in their PS3 FAQ "Additionally, the drive will come with a version of Linux pre-installed, thereby making the PlayStation 3 a full-fledged PC as soon as the HD is installed. ". However they have posted no news that works as a source for that statement (According to google and the search string "linux site:ps3.ign.com", and I want to know where they got that information from.
If you can find an official straight from sony source other then the Kutaragi interview with Impress PC Watch please re-post the section and add the new source. Seraphim 05:57, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Also the rest of that section is about the Cell Chip in general not the PS3 so i'm removing that section since the information is already found on the Cell Processor page. The fact that there is an IBM Linux Distro that can run on the Cell Processor is not relevant to the Playstation 3. Seraphim 06:02, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
This article, IGN: New PS3 Tools, mentions a tool that Devs can use to generate .dds and RGBA8888 image files for use in the PS3. It also mentions that S3TC(DXT1-5) compression can be utilized as well. Does anyone think this data is relevant enough to be added to the article?
For further reading, here's a translation of Optix's main site -- n00b 23:08, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if we should make a new section for technology ps3 game studio have sublicensed... note that this "Optix Imagestudio" isn't part of Sony's the Sony SDK for the PS3. It is up individual studios to decide to license it. It is like photoshop, which is used by plenty of game studios but isn't unique to the particular platform the game runs on. What do you guys think?
Well that is more part of the video card technology then, for example DDS is a compression format for Direct X.
Current content:
"The PS3 will not be backward-compatible with some of the hardware peripherals of the PS2. For example, memory cards for PlayStation and PlayStation 2 will not work on the PlayStation 3 hardware. [18] Instead it was announced that the PS3 will only use the Sony Memory Stick to save games via MagicGate. This means that the PS3 will not be able to use PS1 and PS2 memory cards; however, this will allow gamers to trade saved games over the Internet more easily. Also, Memory Stick will also be compatible with both PS1 and PS2 games, Unlike PS2's memory card."
I believe the content about the memory stick is irrelevant. Being able to trade game saves is not relevent to the compatibility of PS2 memory devices. The fact that the new storage media is a memory stick and is "cool" is not relevent when discussing what PS2 peripherals work with the PS3. Nor is the PS2 software back-compat story relevent relevent when discussing what PS2 hardware will work with the PS3.
This content should be present in the article somewhere, but not in this section.
I've tried to fix this up once, but it was reverted. Instead of getting into an edit pissing match, I decided to solicit feedback here before changing it back again. 24.18.202.92
I don't fully agree with this: "may fare better on dynamically branching code, like that used for artificial intelligence.". The wording seems to stipulate that all artificial intelligence relies on dynamically branching code. While this may be true for the kind of simplistic rule-based approaches commonly used in computer games today, it is hardly true for more advanced approaches to AI such as artificial neural networks or support vector machines. In fact, many of the algorithms used in these methods are known for being massively parallelisable. They may not have entered the computer games sector to any extent yet, but a stream oriented processor such as the Cell provides an interesting opportunity. -- Grahn 21:20, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
But this phrases is faily speculative, is there a source for it? Sounds like original research.
This is to the people that keep adding that the PS3 will be capable of being a DVR. Please stop adding this. There is no possible way to pass video and audio signals into the PS3 from an outside source, therefore it's impossible for the PS3 to record video and audio. Unless they all of asudden announce a redesign and the addition of audio/video in jacks this is 100% impossible. Seraphim 21:15, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I think at the moment, this is little more than rumors and probably breaks Wikipedia:Verifiability. Probably best to wait until more concrete details are available. Jaco plane 22:14, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Word on the street [ [3]] is that this will be really hard to program for, and according to John Carmack in an interview with PC Gamer magazine (January) that the PS3 dev kits are still at a primitive stage. Shouldn't this be in the page? I'm too lazy to add it myself. A Clown in the Dark 22:12, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Here is a technical article on game programming difficulty:
Daniel.Cardenas 04:23, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
These are the current external links on the page
I suggest we keep the "Playstation 3 at playstation.com", "Sony Japan Playstation 3 site", "Playstation 3 Explosions Demo" and "Sony E3 Public Contention 2005" links because they are all official sony content. I suggest we remove the "Sony may swap proprietary API for 'Open' one EE Times" link on the fact that it is speculative in nature "may", and that we remove the "Hands-On with PlayStation 3" link due to the fact that it cannot be proven to be anything more than creative writing. Seraphim 01:49, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
This has been up for over a week. I'm removing the EE Times link because it's speculation ("may" in the title), and the Kikizo article due to it having 0 verifiable content. Seraphim 21:42, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
The Sony PS3 article is about what we as a community believe is going to happen. It should not be about whatever Sony wants us to believe. We are not their marketing pawns, to propagate their half truths. Nothing in the article is verifiable from that perspective. We as a community need to agree and add our subjectiveness to whatever information is available even if it comes from Sony. Daniel.Cardenas 22:38, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
You wish to talk? Pure inuyasha 02:27, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I propose we merge Playstation network into this article. First of all, the former isn't verifiably proved to be the service that will actually be. For all we know at the moment, the PS3 might come with the same decentralized service as PS2 has. Plus, the article is very short and the service is directly tied to the PS3. — Ilyan e p (Talk) 02:27, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Sony has stated that they will have a unified online service. And a trustworthy source supports the PSN. Pure inuyasha 02:29, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I think i remember hearing this at either http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/ or http://www.ps3forums.com/ The latter of which is highly trustworthy.
I'd like to point out that the Playstation Network page was deleted this morning. 01:00, February 15, 2006 Marudubshinki deleted "Playstation network" (agree with justificaions re CITE and crystal ball)
I've added a verify tag on this article. Pure inuyasha 02:42, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
In the bit about the storage it says that it will have a removable hard drive with linux installed. this is not verified. Pure inuyasha 02:48, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
The harddrive isn't verified either. Pure inuyasha 02:51, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
What is the difference between BD-RE and BD-RW? The wikipedya entry about Bluray only mentiones BD-RE as rewriteable. Perhaps we need to update the Bluray entry? -- Pinnecco 08:45, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
If you go to http://playstation.com/products.html and scroll to the bottom of the Playstation 3 spec sheet it says "Storage Media(HDD, "Memory Stick", SD Memory Card, and Compact Flash) are sold separately." This is now confirmation that the PS3 will not come with a HD standard (Sony has already confirmed only 1 SKU this will not be like the Xbox 360 with 2 versions, 1 with and 1 without a HD) Seraphim 06:57, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I dunno if you all wiki have the tech spec (real) or not. But here is the tech spec [6]
How much faith can we have in a company that changes its BOM estimates from $500 to $800? And they can't seem to add up the numbers in their article correctly. I suspect ML drove up their estimate at the urging of Sony because Sony wants initial estimates of the PS3 to be high so that they can look like hero's when they actually deliver the unit lower than rumored . Daniel.Cardenas 13:29, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
It should be pointed out that the BOM Price is 900 dollars, they put down the RSX as costing 70 dollars and over 3 years dropping to 50 dollars. It's obviously a typo, and the RSX is suppossed to go for 170 dollars dropping to 50 dollars over 3 years. Seraphim 00:26, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
A recap of the problems with this report:
Xkxdxmx 22:19, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Can someone like fix that section of the page.
I dunno if this information has been added, but the ps3 (xboxlive) will be called HUB. It will be released around September. I would add the data, but don't wanna waste my time typing later reverted. Here is the source [7]
I presented my point of view about Sony being a verafiable source at the wikipedia village pump policy discussion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29#About_Future_Products I encourage to post your comments here or there. Here is what I stated:
Articles about future products cite the company as the main source of verifiable information. The problem occurs when the marketing department of a company purposely distorts what is likely to happen in order to gain a market advantage. Example: it is in Sony's interest to keep potential game purchases believing the PS3 will be released soon in order to hold off purchases of XBox 360. It may not matter that there are many credible rumors out there that there is no chance of a significant release of the product within the company stated time frame because the company is verifiable and the other sources aren't. In my opinion Wikipedia policy of NPOV is in contradition with verifiability in this example, since most people looking at the situation would agree on a different release date then the one the company is publishing.
So what is the solution?
* Don't allow discussion about future products * Add a disclaimer to verifiability, saying that NPOV has a higher precedence. * Add a disclaimer to verifiability: statements companies make about future products need to be subject to community opinion on probability of being true. * Add a policy about future products. Everything is speculation and that the community needs to agree on what is most likely to occur and not the company. Yes company stated information is usually 95% accurate.
In conclusion if we continue the current course of policy we become pawns for companies marketing departments to add credence to their half truths.
What is your opinion? Should articles about future products be about what the company says or should it be subject to our own opinion of what is most likely to happen?
Does this look familiar? (User showed the infobox from the main article page, I have removed it because it destroyed the talk page layout ~Sera) Daniel.Cardenas 13:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi. Q2 means April to June right. And its febuary now. Thats a long time. I can't see why you are so uncertain about this. The only infomation I've got supposedly from Sony is that they are 'aiming for spring release' - thats Q2. HappyVR 19:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a debate going on here as to the validity of two separate types of sources - manufacturers and journalists. Frankly since journalists produce nothing more substantial than paper I tend to regard ants slightly more highly. In general the manufacturer of a product has a clear advantage in believability. (even if it's Sony) (and please stop arguing) HappyVR 19:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I removed this:
Also possibly complicating the controller design is Sony's ongoing legal battle with Immersion Corporation of San Jose. In March 2005, Sony and Microsoft were sued by force-feedback company Immersion for patent infringement for the use of vibration functions in their controllers. While Microsoft settled out of court, Sony continued to defend the case. Sony lost, and has been required to pay considerable royalties to Immersion and suspend the sale of the controllers, including all PlayStation and PlayStation 2 console packages containing them. Sony has appealed this decision and will be able to sell its products while the case is under appeal.
My reason is that this (i.e. the patent 'battle') doesn't affect the exterior design which seems to be the point of contention here. HappyVR 00:59, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Then I removed this:
Unconfirmed reports suggest that the PS3 may in fact support the older DualShock 2 controllers, however, this is thought to be true due to the PlayStation 3 striving to attain backwards compatibility. The number of ports to support such backward compatibility would most likely be limited to one, although this is also an unconfirmed rumour. The PS3's specifications, and E3 display units, don't support DualShock controller ports. Though Sony itself had previously admitted at this past E3 that the controller design for their PlayStation 3 console was not finalized, GameSpot believes any purported changes will not be substantial. Their downplays concerning a rumor suggesting Sony would unveil a revamped PS3 controller at the Consumer Electronics Show in January 2006 were sound, as the controller was not shown in any form during the event.
My reason for removing this was the lack of references supporting it. As for the final shape and function of the controllers I guess we will have to wait and see HappyVR 01:10, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
User:SeraphimIX stated in an edit summary "Manufacturing costs - the old ml article is obsolete, it stated that they were using estimated costs for alot of things, the new one is an update with actual costs, they consider the old one false" but in the new article (.pdf file page 3 top right table) these costs are still estimates. I haven't found any cross reference between the two estimates - Can anyone provide a reference? My reason for adding the older estimates was that I felt it gave the necessary 'pinch of salt' to these figures - I have no reason to be believe that they are either 'right' or 'wrong'. I also have no reason to believe that ML has access to Sony's 'cost sheets' either.( I consider them at best educated guesses.) Do these two ML articles really have any more validity than any 'Joe Blogg's' guess on any talk page? If there was a rumour section in this article (as there is in the Nintendo Revoluyion article) I would put this ML stuff there.. Especially in the absence of any evidence that these analysts know anything about the costs manufacturing electronics. I could go on. HappyVR 01:57, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
O.K. Thanks - I now know why the old report no longer applies. However it still seems a matter of debate as to whether the new figures are actually more accurate. (I agree with User:HQ). I'm suggesting that the report has no validity and should not be included at all. However I'm not really qualified to judge - but neither is there any evidence that the analysts at Merrill Lynch have any real infomation to work on either. If I describe myself as an independant finacial analyst and produce a web page containing a pdf document estimating the cost to produce a PS3 as less than £200 would that qualify for inclusion in any encyclopedia? By comparison my hypothetical report seems to have no less validity than Merrill Lynch's. The web is full of infomation 'from insiders' and I would recommend that any reference to Merrill Lynch be removed from the page. HappyVR 04:42, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
By the way the hardward specifications section is way out. After the introductory paragraph the text reads:
According to a press release by Sony at the May 16, 2005 E3 Conference, the specifications of the PlayStation 3 are as follows. [9]
But the following text
a. Does not match sony's released specs accuratly
e.g. there is 1 vmx on ppe the vector units on spe are not identical to vmx and some extra info has been included e.g 76.8 GB Cell FlexIO bus (not in sony's pdf) must be from ibm?
b. The tech data is interspersed with extraneous info
e.g. NVidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang stated during Sony's pre-show press conference at E3 2005 that the RSX will be more powerful than two GeForce 6800 Ultra video cards combined.
I don't think anything here is incorrect? but it could do with cleaning up and references included to the new infomation - its become disjointed. Also some tech info has gone e.g. ppe cache size, spe local mem . Anyone ? HappyVR 04:42, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I have attempted to clean this up a bit. The introduction states the info is from a sony conference [8] so any data not from this should have its own reference. Below are the bits that need references:
These are cell specs but were not in the above reference
Also this I think may be technically incorrect unless infomation is provided showing that the RSX can simultaneously read or write from two separate memory locations at the same time:
Since the RSX is connected to the XDR DRAM and GDDR3 RAM similar to a Turbo Cached GPU it can access both memory locations at the exact same time. This gives the RSX an effective 48 GB/s when sending data to/from GPU and RAM.
This info is not from the pdf and is duplicated in the RSX section I intend to remove it soon:
NVidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang stated during Sony's pre-show press conference at E3 2005 that the RSX will be more powerful than two GeForce 6800 Ultra video cards combined.
HappyVR 17:27, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Also this:
The 8th SPE is there for redundancy: if one of the other 7 are defective the 8th SPE will activate and stand in for the defective part.
I suggest removing this. Was this speculation - from what I have read it seems that it is now thought that the eigth SPE will be used for DRM. Does anyone have the most recent answer? HappyVR 17:47, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I have suggested this page be archived soon and a new talk page started because the page is getting very long. HappyVR 22:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
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