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The procedure that is described in this article is also called "vampire facelift" ( [1]). This has been repeatedly removed ( [2], [3]) in the mistaken opinion that the mention of the name infringes on a trademark for the words "vampire facelift". However, that is not so; Wikipedia routinely mentions trademarks (without "TM", see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks)); doing so is not infringement. I'm asking for a third opinion about this. Sandstein 22:36, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much for asking for a third opinion. It's more than just the name--it's the idea that there are two parts to a procedure--there's the material used and what you do with that material
The news reporters have used the material interchangeably with the procedure. This is an understandable mistake, since people say--I'm going to get "Botox" which refers to material and to a procedure. But, you don't go to get hamburger meat when you go to get McDonalds--you go to get their way of preparing it.
An analogy here is that you don't go to get dye, you go to get a heart cath. You don't go to get acid, you go to get a facial peel.
If you go to get the Vampire Facelift, you go to get Juvederm and Selphyl used in a very specific way. My name went viral but is acknowledged at uspto.gov and on the index page of Selphyl.com. More at VampireFacelift.com and at ACCMA.memberlodge.org
Look, here's the bottom line. All information on Wikipedia is supposed to be backed up by verifiable sources. We're not supposed to have any original content; it must all be attributable to a source. Here we have a NYTimes article that says that this procedure is also referred to as "vampire facelift". That's all that matters - source says it, we put it in the article. We're not going to challenge the NYTimes as a source (as it's absolutely reliable).
If you have the rights to the term "vampire facelift", good for you. That doesn't stop us from putting it in the Wikipedia article. If you have an issue with the NYT article, then contact them, not us - we only reflect what the article says. Quite honestly, your explanation of what you're "REQUIRED to do to keep a trademark" is starting to become worrisome to me. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 03:18, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, though, for highlighting that the article's last paragraphs do deal with your trademark. They read:
Now any doctors who want to promote the vampire face-lift must pay Dr. Runels $47 a month to follow his protocol, posted online. (So far, 10 have signed up.) Asked what he intends to do about all the doctors already using vampire face-lifts, he said, “I don’t know how I’m going to rein it back in but I will.” Maybe Dracula could help."
Still what you've suggested is very close and if that feels best to you, then, I'm grateful for the addition and will smile and go away :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Runels ( talk • contribs) 14:31, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Hello "annyong"--(dangerously close to "annoying," which I guess I"m being) Looks like I may have frustrated you, and owe you an apology--it's hard for me to communicate with emails but I am very very sorry if that's the case.
I understand Wikipedia does not care about trademarks but I figure it cares about ideas and definitions: Selphyl ≠ Vampire Facelift-- Runels ( talk) 14:53, 27 March 2011 (UTC).
But, the proposed changes are very close and for that I'm grateful and honored. So be it.
Thank you very much for your considerations.
Charles -- Runels ( talk) 14:37, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for consideration of my comments, "Sandstein." I"m exhausted by it all, as you must be as well.
If you must report what people say no matter the accuracy then that must be the policy of Wikipedia, but my attorney has advised me that I must make it plain--the US Patent and Trademark Office, Aesthetic Factors, Selphyl.com--> all state that Selphyl is NOT the Vampire Facelift (TM).
I must go on record as saying this exact statement: the Vampire Facelift (TM) is a SPECIFIC WAY of using both blood derived growth factors AND Juvederm to rejuvenate and reshape the face in an attractive way. Selphyl is NOT the Vampire Facelift, not matter that others have misspoken with sloppy reporting.
Not to be abusive and not to argue--you've made your decision--but those are the facts about the true definitions of the terms.
Best regards,
Charles -- Runels ( talk) 17:51, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Here's a link to an article about someone using a way of making PRP other than Selphyl to do the Vampire Faclieft (TM). Most physicians who use PRP do NOT use Selphyl. The forwarding of the listing to "vampire facelift" as if they are the same is inaccurate. Please see the discussion under the Vampire Facelift listing and consider having a separate listing for the Vampire Facelift acknowledging the facts;
I originated and trademarked the name. it refers to the use of PRP in the face (NOT just Selphyl) combined with Juvederm.
Just forwarding the name Vampire Facelift to Selphyl does not acknowledge that the manufacturer selling the most kits for processing PRP is Harvest Technologies or the fact that just squirting PRP anywhere in the face does not make it the Vampire Facelift--I know this is a new listing and PRP is a new concept to many but Vampire Facelift as it stands as simply a forward to Selphyl is just like having Car forward to Ford.
Please open up the listing Vampire Facelift for editing.
Thank you again.
Charles -- Runels ( talk) 13:33, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much.
No. The USPTO is indeed reliable for defining what the meaning of a trademark is. But Wikipedia is not "Trademarkpedia"; our articles are not about trademarks, but about real things (and trademarks don't necessarily describe these real things). That is to say, what Wikipedia writes about any topic is not necessarily the same as the meaning of any corresponding trademark. For example, " Coca-Cola" is a beverage and a trademark, but our article is about the actual beverage, not the trademark (the trademark is merely mentioned). In other words, we do not define our article subjects by way of trademarks. A trademark is simply a means to identify a good or service in commerce; it has no relevance for how an encyclopedia describes the subject. We have already explained this at length above. Sandstein 20:34, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
First, are you even reading what's posted above? There are plenty of physicians who do the Vampire Facelift (TM) who have never even seen a Selphyl kit! It's not that they are combining Selphyl with something else, it's that there are other methods of isolating the PRP (for example the Harvest Technologies product) and that the PRP must be used by the physician in a particular way defined by me or it is NOT the Vampire Facelift.
Second, It's not promotion, it's truth. I never asked that you use my name (and it does belong to me by law) on Wikipedia. But, if you want to use it, I have given you the proper way in line with the legal definition. The New York Times was not correct but they let stand comments that I posted following the article that corrected the error.
What you have now promotes Selphyl and ignores the actual person who thought of the name, Vampire Facelift, and ignores the other manufacturers of a way to isolate PRP.
What you have now is incorrect. Why would you promote Selphyl and sacrifice truth? I DID think of the name, I WAS first to use it, I did define it (that's what a trademark proves!) and spend MONTHS of work promoting its viral spread through search engine optimization and other means--SAYING SELPHYL IS THE VAMPIRE FACELIFT IS LIKE SAYING THAT NOODLES ARE THE SAME THING AS SPAGHETTI and it is in effect giving away the fruits of my labors. There is a reason for our laws about protection of intellectual property. Intangibles, ideas, definitions are valuable, and--YOUR RULES ABOUT PROMOTION and your Wikipedia guidelines HAVE YOU BLIND TO THE TRUTH of what a published trademark really means--and do not give you rights to destroy the value of my work.
I am perfectly happy with you removing the name Vampire Facelift completely from Wikipedia. I do no wish to "promote" myself here. But, either use the name Vampire Facelift correctly or remove it entirely.
CHALRES -- Runels ( talk) 13:01, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
No matter what the policy of Wikipedia, a trademark does give me certain legal rights. the next letter will not be from me.
-- Runels ( talk) 13:01, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure who Dr. Runels thinks the next "letter" is going to be from, but if I could interrupt the flow of this thread for a moment, I would appreciate it.
As a physician, scientist and educator with substantial experience in this area, I am adding my contribution to this discussion because I am profoundly disappointed by the comments of the Wikipedia editors in this thread. When seeking information about topics outside my area of expertise I have often turned to Wikipedia believing it to be generally reliable and have had no quarrel with students who wish to use Wikipedia when researching papers. Thus it was extremely disappointing to see a Wikipedia editor flippantly misapply one of Wikipedia’s core policies to the topic of Selphyl with the highly misleading statement: “Sorry, Wikipedia is not concerned with any authoritative concepts of ‘truth’… Our motto is "verifiability, not truth…” This wrongly suggests that Wikipedia is fine with knowingly offering false information to its readers as long as the falsehood has been published by a “reliable source.” To give a hypothetical example: Suppose a writer for the New York Times erroneously states that Elizabeth Taylor died in 2010 rather than 2011 and that information was published on Wikipedia; according to this editor, Wikipedia would not correct this misstatement unless the New York Times published a retraction. That, of course, is not the case.
With all due respect to this editor who seems to believe that the goal of Wikipedia is to simply collect the views of “reliable sources,” he or she is wrong. Using reliable sources is simply the best way to achieve the actual goal of Wikipedia and other encyclopedias: Accuracy. No source, no matter how “reliable,” is always accurate. Inaccuracies may be due to typographical or other similar errors, fraud (e.g., Jayson Blair), or misinterpretations that result when a writer takes on a complex subject for which he or she has inadequate knowledge or experience (as I believe was the case for the Vampire Facelift piece from the New York Times).
In my view, no Wikipedia editor should feel their job is done simple because they confirm that a “reliable source” has indeed written what is claimed in a proposed article for Wikipedia. Using a usually “reliable source” is the minimal threshold for a Wikipedia publication, it does not mean that the article is publication-worthy and it does not mean that the article conforms to Wikipedia’s over-riding goal for its entries: Accuracy. Sometimes there is overwhelming evidence from other sources that a statement made by a usually reliable source is inaccurate; sometimes the application of simple logic or common sense mean that a statement cannot be accurate. Another hypothetical: A New York Times writer misreads a press release from the Academy of Motion Pictures that expresses condolences for the death of Elizabeth Taylor and writes that she is to appear at next year’s Academy Awards. Should that be published in a Wikipedia article simply because it comes from the New York Times?
All of which brings us to the Selphyl article. According to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Selphyl (as noted in the existing Wikipedia article, it received FDA approval under the name “Fibrinet”) is a blood collection device in the form of a “self-contained disposable kit. Each kit consists of two or more sterile evacuated blood collection tubes, needles and a transfer device…used for the safe and rapid preparation of autologous platelet-rich-plasma (PRP) from a small sample of blood…”
I think all would agree that the FDA would be much more authoritative “secondary source” than the New York Times regarding an accurate description of what Selphyl actually is. The FDA tells us that Selphyl is no more than a medical apparatus and associated method for obtaining PRP, which can then be injected back into a patient. Selphyl itself is clearly not a substance to be injected. Therefore, “I injected the patient with Selphyl” is a nonsensical statement because one obviously does not inject blood collection kits into a person’s face. It is clearly is not a “process in cosmetic surgery;” the kit and the use of the kit does not involve cosmetic surgery in any way (unless one considers drawing blood to be a form of cosmetic surgery). Therefore the implication contained in Selphyl Wikipedia article that “Selphyl …[is] the vampire filler or vampire facelift” is absurd and clearly inaccurate. I suppose that pointing out that a NYT writer published this falsity might be of some interest to some readers, but I would submit that the real interest for the vast majority is learning what Selphyl actually is and how it might be utilized in their treatment.
The fact is that the Selphyl is just one of several commercial and non-commercial methods to obtain PRP for a variety of subsequent cosmetic and non-cosmetic medical and dental procedures. The fact is that the Selphyl is just one of these several methods used to obtain PRP for cosmetic purposes and it is just one of the several available methods for obtaining the PRP required to do a “Vampire Facelift.” There is no basis for equating Selphyl and the Vampire Facelift any more than there is a basis for calling the scalpel a plastic surgeon uses a “Facelift.”
So I agree with Dr. Runels that for the sake of Accuracy the Wikipedia article must be edited so that readers do not erroneously believe that Selphyl is the Vampire Facelift, but I disagree with him when he suggests that allowing readers to believe that Selphyl is the “Vampire Filler” is an acceptable alternative. Selphyl, as we have seen, is neither a cosmetic procedure nor a substance.
Because I am late to this intellectual party, I will not submit the following (without receiving appropriate feedback), but I would suggest that the following replace the relevant portions of the article:
“Selphyl, an abbreviation for the “Selphyl System,” is one of several semiautomatic systems available for the isolation of platelet rich plasma (PRP). Selphyl is marketed as a simple reproducible method for obtaining PRP that contains minimal red or white blood cells by Aesthetic Factors, Inc. (AF), which, on the Selphyl website, claims it has been utilized over 45,000 times for plastic surgery, orthopedics, maxillofacial surgery, and soft tissue regeneration applications.
Selphyl has been associated with the “Vampire Facelift,” a procedure that involves the injection of PRP as a filler into multiple areas of the face with or without other fillers like Juvederm, because several media reports on the “Vampire Facelift” have described using PRP obtaining using the Selphyl System to perform this procedure. There is, however, no scientific evidence that the use of Selphyl is superior to any other method of obtaining PRP for cosmetic purposes and there is no evidence that cosmetic surgeons performing the Vampire Facelift only utilize PRP generated using Selphyl to do so.”
I mean no disrespect to the editors or Dr. Runels with my comments, but even beyond the issue of Accuracy as a lofty goal, the fact is that patients frequently turn to the internet to obtain medical information about procedures they are considering and we do them a grave disservice by not making every effort to ensure that any website any of us is associated with provides the most accurate information possible.
Reprodoc ( talk) 15:26, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Dr. Runels, you added the phrase "which are then activated with calcium chloride (to release growth factors and form the PRFM)" to the description of the method. Is there a reliable source ( WP:RS) that can be used to verify this description? Sandstein 15:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
The US Patent and trademark office (to which I gave a link above) has a way to search patents and see the exact content. The label on a tube of Selphyl has what's there listed.
Harvest Technologies (which some use combined with Juvederm for the Vampire Facelift) uses thrombin combined with calcium chloride for surgical use and recommends nothing but activation by the needle when used by injection. I have (again) a trademarked way of using the Harvest Technologies product that improves upon the Harvest Technologies system (I was a research chemist at Southern Research Institute (designed instrumentation still in use by our armed forces) in Birmingham Alabama before going to medical school)--It's like the recipe for Coke--this is not the cure for cancer--there's no ethical reason why the exact methods must be shared except with the providers of the service. That's the idea behind intellectual property. this whole discussion has been very disappointing to me--never thought a new york times reporter would trump everything even the idea behind a trademark.
There's much science and thought glossed over in the Selphyl article that could be expanded in a separate Vampire Facelift article.
-- Runels ( talk) 13:48, 1 April 2011 (UTC) Charles
A fact from Platelet-rich fibrin matrix appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 17 March 2011 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
The procedure that is described in this article is also called "vampire facelift" ( [1]). This has been repeatedly removed ( [2], [3]) in the mistaken opinion that the mention of the name infringes on a trademark for the words "vampire facelift". However, that is not so; Wikipedia routinely mentions trademarks (without "TM", see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks)); doing so is not infringement. I'm asking for a third opinion about this. Sandstein 22:36, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much for asking for a third opinion. It's more than just the name--it's the idea that there are two parts to a procedure--there's the material used and what you do with that material
The news reporters have used the material interchangeably with the procedure. This is an understandable mistake, since people say--I'm going to get "Botox" which refers to material and to a procedure. But, you don't go to get hamburger meat when you go to get McDonalds--you go to get their way of preparing it.
An analogy here is that you don't go to get dye, you go to get a heart cath. You don't go to get acid, you go to get a facial peel.
If you go to get the Vampire Facelift, you go to get Juvederm and Selphyl used in a very specific way. My name went viral but is acknowledged at uspto.gov and on the index page of Selphyl.com. More at VampireFacelift.com and at ACCMA.memberlodge.org
Look, here's the bottom line. All information on Wikipedia is supposed to be backed up by verifiable sources. We're not supposed to have any original content; it must all be attributable to a source. Here we have a NYTimes article that says that this procedure is also referred to as "vampire facelift". That's all that matters - source says it, we put it in the article. We're not going to challenge the NYTimes as a source (as it's absolutely reliable).
If you have the rights to the term "vampire facelift", good for you. That doesn't stop us from putting it in the Wikipedia article. If you have an issue with the NYT article, then contact them, not us - we only reflect what the article says. Quite honestly, your explanation of what you're "REQUIRED to do to keep a trademark" is starting to become worrisome to me. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 03:18, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, though, for highlighting that the article's last paragraphs do deal with your trademark. They read:
Now any doctors who want to promote the vampire face-lift must pay Dr. Runels $47 a month to follow his protocol, posted online. (So far, 10 have signed up.) Asked what he intends to do about all the doctors already using vampire face-lifts, he said, “I don’t know how I’m going to rein it back in but I will.” Maybe Dracula could help."
Still what you've suggested is very close and if that feels best to you, then, I'm grateful for the addition and will smile and go away :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Runels ( talk • contribs) 14:31, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Hello "annyong"--(dangerously close to "annoying," which I guess I"m being) Looks like I may have frustrated you, and owe you an apology--it's hard for me to communicate with emails but I am very very sorry if that's the case.
I understand Wikipedia does not care about trademarks but I figure it cares about ideas and definitions: Selphyl ≠ Vampire Facelift-- Runels ( talk) 14:53, 27 March 2011 (UTC).
But, the proposed changes are very close and for that I'm grateful and honored. So be it.
Thank you very much for your considerations.
Charles -- Runels ( talk) 14:37, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for consideration of my comments, "Sandstein." I"m exhausted by it all, as you must be as well.
If you must report what people say no matter the accuracy then that must be the policy of Wikipedia, but my attorney has advised me that I must make it plain--the US Patent and Trademark Office, Aesthetic Factors, Selphyl.com--> all state that Selphyl is NOT the Vampire Facelift (TM).
I must go on record as saying this exact statement: the Vampire Facelift (TM) is a SPECIFIC WAY of using both blood derived growth factors AND Juvederm to rejuvenate and reshape the face in an attractive way. Selphyl is NOT the Vampire Facelift, not matter that others have misspoken with sloppy reporting.
Not to be abusive and not to argue--you've made your decision--but those are the facts about the true definitions of the terms.
Best regards,
Charles -- Runels ( talk) 17:51, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Here's a link to an article about someone using a way of making PRP other than Selphyl to do the Vampire Faclieft (TM). Most physicians who use PRP do NOT use Selphyl. The forwarding of the listing to "vampire facelift" as if they are the same is inaccurate. Please see the discussion under the Vampire Facelift listing and consider having a separate listing for the Vampire Facelift acknowledging the facts;
I originated and trademarked the name. it refers to the use of PRP in the face (NOT just Selphyl) combined with Juvederm.
Just forwarding the name Vampire Facelift to Selphyl does not acknowledge that the manufacturer selling the most kits for processing PRP is Harvest Technologies or the fact that just squirting PRP anywhere in the face does not make it the Vampire Facelift--I know this is a new listing and PRP is a new concept to many but Vampire Facelift as it stands as simply a forward to Selphyl is just like having Car forward to Ford.
Please open up the listing Vampire Facelift for editing.
Thank you again.
Charles -- Runels ( talk) 13:33, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much.
No. The USPTO is indeed reliable for defining what the meaning of a trademark is. But Wikipedia is not "Trademarkpedia"; our articles are not about trademarks, but about real things (and trademarks don't necessarily describe these real things). That is to say, what Wikipedia writes about any topic is not necessarily the same as the meaning of any corresponding trademark. For example, " Coca-Cola" is a beverage and a trademark, but our article is about the actual beverage, not the trademark (the trademark is merely mentioned). In other words, we do not define our article subjects by way of trademarks. A trademark is simply a means to identify a good or service in commerce; it has no relevance for how an encyclopedia describes the subject. We have already explained this at length above. Sandstein 20:34, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
First, are you even reading what's posted above? There are plenty of physicians who do the Vampire Facelift (TM) who have never even seen a Selphyl kit! It's not that they are combining Selphyl with something else, it's that there are other methods of isolating the PRP (for example the Harvest Technologies product) and that the PRP must be used by the physician in a particular way defined by me or it is NOT the Vampire Facelift.
Second, It's not promotion, it's truth. I never asked that you use my name (and it does belong to me by law) on Wikipedia. But, if you want to use it, I have given you the proper way in line with the legal definition. The New York Times was not correct but they let stand comments that I posted following the article that corrected the error.
What you have now promotes Selphyl and ignores the actual person who thought of the name, Vampire Facelift, and ignores the other manufacturers of a way to isolate PRP.
What you have now is incorrect. Why would you promote Selphyl and sacrifice truth? I DID think of the name, I WAS first to use it, I did define it (that's what a trademark proves!) and spend MONTHS of work promoting its viral spread through search engine optimization and other means--SAYING SELPHYL IS THE VAMPIRE FACELIFT IS LIKE SAYING THAT NOODLES ARE THE SAME THING AS SPAGHETTI and it is in effect giving away the fruits of my labors. There is a reason for our laws about protection of intellectual property. Intangibles, ideas, definitions are valuable, and--YOUR RULES ABOUT PROMOTION and your Wikipedia guidelines HAVE YOU BLIND TO THE TRUTH of what a published trademark really means--and do not give you rights to destroy the value of my work.
I am perfectly happy with you removing the name Vampire Facelift completely from Wikipedia. I do no wish to "promote" myself here. But, either use the name Vampire Facelift correctly or remove it entirely.
CHALRES -- Runels ( talk) 13:01, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
No matter what the policy of Wikipedia, a trademark does give me certain legal rights. the next letter will not be from me.
-- Runels ( talk) 13:01, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure who Dr. Runels thinks the next "letter" is going to be from, but if I could interrupt the flow of this thread for a moment, I would appreciate it.
As a physician, scientist and educator with substantial experience in this area, I am adding my contribution to this discussion because I am profoundly disappointed by the comments of the Wikipedia editors in this thread. When seeking information about topics outside my area of expertise I have often turned to Wikipedia believing it to be generally reliable and have had no quarrel with students who wish to use Wikipedia when researching papers. Thus it was extremely disappointing to see a Wikipedia editor flippantly misapply one of Wikipedia’s core policies to the topic of Selphyl with the highly misleading statement: “Sorry, Wikipedia is not concerned with any authoritative concepts of ‘truth’… Our motto is "verifiability, not truth…” This wrongly suggests that Wikipedia is fine with knowingly offering false information to its readers as long as the falsehood has been published by a “reliable source.” To give a hypothetical example: Suppose a writer for the New York Times erroneously states that Elizabeth Taylor died in 2010 rather than 2011 and that information was published on Wikipedia; according to this editor, Wikipedia would not correct this misstatement unless the New York Times published a retraction. That, of course, is not the case.
With all due respect to this editor who seems to believe that the goal of Wikipedia is to simply collect the views of “reliable sources,” he or she is wrong. Using reliable sources is simply the best way to achieve the actual goal of Wikipedia and other encyclopedias: Accuracy. No source, no matter how “reliable,” is always accurate. Inaccuracies may be due to typographical or other similar errors, fraud (e.g., Jayson Blair), or misinterpretations that result when a writer takes on a complex subject for which he or she has inadequate knowledge or experience (as I believe was the case for the Vampire Facelift piece from the New York Times).
In my view, no Wikipedia editor should feel their job is done simple because they confirm that a “reliable source” has indeed written what is claimed in a proposed article for Wikipedia. Using a usually “reliable source” is the minimal threshold for a Wikipedia publication, it does not mean that the article is publication-worthy and it does not mean that the article conforms to Wikipedia’s over-riding goal for its entries: Accuracy. Sometimes there is overwhelming evidence from other sources that a statement made by a usually reliable source is inaccurate; sometimes the application of simple logic or common sense mean that a statement cannot be accurate. Another hypothetical: A New York Times writer misreads a press release from the Academy of Motion Pictures that expresses condolences for the death of Elizabeth Taylor and writes that she is to appear at next year’s Academy Awards. Should that be published in a Wikipedia article simply because it comes from the New York Times?
All of which brings us to the Selphyl article. According to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Selphyl (as noted in the existing Wikipedia article, it received FDA approval under the name “Fibrinet”) is a blood collection device in the form of a “self-contained disposable kit. Each kit consists of two or more sterile evacuated blood collection tubes, needles and a transfer device…used for the safe and rapid preparation of autologous platelet-rich-plasma (PRP) from a small sample of blood…”
I think all would agree that the FDA would be much more authoritative “secondary source” than the New York Times regarding an accurate description of what Selphyl actually is. The FDA tells us that Selphyl is no more than a medical apparatus and associated method for obtaining PRP, which can then be injected back into a patient. Selphyl itself is clearly not a substance to be injected. Therefore, “I injected the patient with Selphyl” is a nonsensical statement because one obviously does not inject blood collection kits into a person’s face. It is clearly is not a “process in cosmetic surgery;” the kit and the use of the kit does not involve cosmetic surgery in any way (unless one considers drawing blood to be a form of cosmetic surgery). Therefore the implication contained in Selphyl Wikipedia article that “Selphyl …[is] the vampire filler or vampire facelift” is absurd and clearly inaccurate. I suppose that pointing out that a NYT writer published this falsity might be of some interest to some readers, but I would submit that the real interest for the vast majority is learning what Selphyl actually is and how it might be utilized in their treatment.
The fact is that the Selphyl is just one of several commercial and non-commercial methods to obtain PRP for a variety of subsequent cosmetic and non-cosmetic medical and dental procedures. The fact is that the Selphyl is just one of these several methods used to obtain PRP for cosmetic purposes and it is just one of the several available methods for obtaining the PRP required to do a “Vampire Facelift.” There is no basis for equating Selphyl and the Vampire Facelift any more than there is a basis for calling the scalpel a plastic surgeon uses a “Facelift.”
So I agree with Dr. Runels that for the sake of Accuracy the Wikipedia article must be edited so that readers do not erroneously believe that Selphyl is the Vampire Facelift, but I disagree with him when he suggests that allowing readers to believe that Selphyl is the “Vampire Filler” is an acceptable alternative. Selphyl, as we have seen, is neither a cosmetic procedure nor a substance.
Because I am late to this intellectual party, I will not submit the following (without receiving appropriate feedback), but I would suggest that the following replace the relevant portions of the article:
“Selphyl, an abbreviation for the “Selphyl System,” is one of several semiautomatic systems available for the isolation of platelet rich plasma (PRP). Selphyl is marketed as a simple reproducible method for obtaining PRP that contains minimal red or white blood cells by Aesthetic Factors, Inc. (AF), which, on the Selphyl website, claims it has been utilized over 45,000 times for plastic surgery, orthopedics, maxillofacial surgery, and soft tissue regeneration applications.
Selphyl has been associated with the “Vampire Facelift,” a procedure that involves the injection of PRP as a filler into multiple areas of the face with or without other fillers like Juvederm, because several media reports on the “Vampire Facelift” have described using PRP obtaining using the Selphyl System to perform this procedure. There is, however, no scientific evidence that the use of Selphyl is superior to any other method of obtaining PRP for cosmetic purposes and there is no evidence that cosmetic surgeons performing the Vampire Facelift only utilize PRP generated using Selphyl to do so.”
I mean no disrespect to the editors or Dr. Runels with my comments, but even beyond the issue of Accuracy as a lofty goal, the fact is that patients frequently turn to the internet to obtain medical information about procedures they are considering and we do them a grave disservice by not making every effort to ensure that any website any of us is associated with provides the most accurate information possible.
Reprodoc ( talk) 15:26, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Dr. Runels, you added the phrase "which are then activated with calcium chloride (to release growth factors and form the PRFM)" to the description of the method. Is there a reliable source ( WP:RS) that can be used to verify this description? Sandstein 15:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
The US Patent and trademark office (to which I gave a link above) has a way to search patents and see the exact content. The label on a tube of Selphyl has what's there listed.
Harvest Technologies (which some use combined with Juvederm for the Vampire Facelift) uses thrombin combined with calcium chloride for surgical use and recommends nothing but activation by the needle when used by injection. I have (again) a trademarked way of using the Harvest Technologies product that improves upon the Harvest Technologies system (I was a research chemist at Southern Research Institute (designed instrumentation still in use by our armed forces) in Birmingham Alabama before going to medical school)--It's like the recipe for Coke--this is not the cure for cancer--there's no ethical reason why the exact methods must be shared except with the providers of the service. That's the idea behind intellectual property. this whole discussion has been very disappointing to me--never thought a new york times reporter would trump everything even the idea behind a trademark.
There's much science and thought glossed over in the Selphyl article that could be expanded in a separate Vampire Facelift article.
-- Runels ( talk) 13:48, 1 April 2011 (UTC) Charles