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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2020 and 11 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jessmhill. Peer reviewers: Alisa.coffey.
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The video showing Robert Huw Morgan performing BWV 542 on the Stanford Memorial Church's Fisk-Nanney organ has been removed several times (by various IP users) - many times with out reason given, but most recently with the reason that it is a "controversial performance displaying inappropriate style and technique".
I'm going to re-add the piece for this reason: The musician is a highly celebrated organ scholar; the instrument is a large and important example of a pipe organ at a highly notable location; the piece being performed is a notable composition by a notable composer. Additionally, the organ is said to reproduce the sound of Baroque music as authentically as possible, and this is an excellent performance with high quality sound recording.
Even if it were true that it was controversial and the style & technique are inappropriate, that doesn't merit deletion. This isn't an article about organ style and technique. If anyone still thinks that the video is inappropriate, please give detailed reasoning here. I'd like to see a source detailing why the performance was controversial. – jaksmata 17:30, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
The performance by Robert Morgan has again been eliminated. The organ is an important instrument and other recordings of it are important contributions to the field. This recording violates the historical principles of performance in Kittel, C.P.E. Bach, Sorge, and others. Such a discussion page is too small to quote them all and no sources have been given in support of this performance or in support of other statements made by the person initiating this discussion. In addition, the video is harming the reputation of Robert Morgan and it would be to his advantage for it to disappear.
If you want to put a video there, find another one. This is a page to promote the pipe organ and a section to promote Bach. It should not be used to promote or damage the reputation of anyone or anything else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pipe Fan ( talk • contribs) 17:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
This bit on masonic organists was tacked on to 20c repertoire before being deleted:
I disagree with the OR rational, though I agree it would be preferable to give the original references buried in List of Freemasons directly:
As I see it, the issue is where the material belongs. We already have a twofold history of construction and repertoire, so maybe a third section on the use of the instrument is called for: a general reader might well be interested in how an instrument that once accompanied the screams of martyrs came to have pride of place in the Western church, the origin of Organ recitals, how and when organ playing crept into Synagogues, whether indeed Johann Gottlieb Naumann wrote the earliest organ music for Masonic rites, the rise & fall of cinematic theater organs, etc... Sparafucil ( talk) 21:29, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
An image used in this article,
File:Fribourg orgue.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
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Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
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In September 2011, an IP editor added a 'Builders' section. Besides lacking substance, the section favors living pipe organ builders, bordering on promotion. Per WP:NOTDIRECTORY, Wikipedia is not a trade directory or a resource for conducting business. I propose that this section be removed. Perhaps a 'See also' section could be added under which would a appear a link to List of pipe organ builders. — Waldhorn ( talk) 03:12, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Many descriptions of pipe organs mention air pressure in ″ units (e.g. 100″ or 50″). May I ask, what is this unit and how to convert it to standard SI units? Is it inch of water? Or inch of mercury? Thanks! -- Xth-Floor ( talk) 10:43, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
As a newbie trying to follow how all these parts work, I find this bit ambiguous:
- Sometimes, a single rank of pipes may be able to be controlled by several stops, allowing...
Does this mean the rank in its entirety can be activated by multiple stops (for example, singly by 8' Diapason, and in combination with others by Mixture V)? Or does it mean that a portion of a rank can be controlled by a stop? I think the paragraph is trying to illustrate the latter.
If correct, something like this may help:
- Stops can be used to control portions of a rank, allowing... For example, a portion of an 8' Diapason rank may also be made available as a 4' Octave. When both of these stops are selected...
Written that way, the rest of the paragraph follows easily.
Pbyhistorian (
talk)
19:25, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1=
(
help)Footnotes 27 thru 30 are dead links. I believe that all external links must redirect to the site. I think that the dead links should be removed and replaced by links that redirect to the sites.-- Kevjgav ( talk) 10:42, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 23:41, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Apologies if this has been discussed before; I've been away from Wikipedia editing for a while. But the choice of "also known as" synonyms seems a bit random to me. We currently have "church organ, chapel organ, grand organ, or Baroque organ" but in that case why not "concert organ", or "cathedral organ", or "classical organ" or any of several other terms? Personally, I'd be tempted to leave it at "church organ" - of course church organs aren't strictly speaking necessarily pipe organs but it's probably the most widely-used alternative term in general parlance. Barnabypage ( talk) 17:27, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
How is that dude called in English? I wonder why the article doesn't mention the fact that with complex arrangements, the organist him-/herself can't be bothered with pulling and releasing stops, because organ sounds might be required to change rapidly. That's why there's an assistant to the organist, who does this (and who has preferably a little knowledge about organs as well). In my native German language, this dude is called a Registrant. But even with a small r, this term is virtually unknown in English---or, at least, extraordinarily rare. -quintaton- 2.242.182.127 ( talk) 17:11, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
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I can not find the method to change this word to the more correct grammatical form Schematic. Would a more knowledgeable editor please take a look at the description underlying this image which is opposite the heading "WIND SYSTEM" in this article. Thanks, Spyglasses 19:07, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Pipe organ is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Pipe organ until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 23:49, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Autodidact1 has changed BC/AD to BCE/CE on the article without reason, contrary to WP:Era. They did this in an edit on 22 July, and it was not mentioned in their edit summary. I reverted last night, pointing out WP:Era, but they've reverted that. Looking through their edit history, they seem to be doing it on more pages, these examples with not so civil edit summaries. -- Inops ( talk) 17:32, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
Not so; I said that the BCE usage was now the preferred one, at least among rational people who reject the Theocratic usage, "BC". Autodidact1 ( talk) 18:36, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
( Personal attack removed) Autodidact1 ( talk) 04:53, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
This article talks about "divisions". Where are they defined? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spinhirne ( talk • contribs) 12:53, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:52, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Per this edit by an IP, I understand the motivation for this change, but it seems like a tautology to me, and quite wordy, considering it's inside the infobox. I would say that pipe organs have more names than these two, such as "theater organ", am I right? Elizium23 ( talk) 01:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
I've added a brief summary of the Italian Baroque organ as I felt it has an important place in musical history, and is quite different to organs across the rest of Europe. My single reference is a book by Peter Williams. I'm painfully aware that generalisations can so easily knock up against multiple exceptions, so, for example, I've written that these organs were often single-manual affairs, based on Williams' statement "Second manuals remained exceptional..." even though plenty had them. Please do let me know if you disagree with anything I've written. I wanted to add something on pitch and temperament, as there seems to be an Italian flavour here (Williams quotes Antignati as saying that the pitch of an organ can be "come si vuole", "as you like", i.e. at the builder's discretion, depending on the local taste). But the matter of pitch and temperament goes way beyond Italy and is a huge subject, so I've kept out of it. But if anyone has any thoughts... Elemimele ( talk) 18:33, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
I just can't make sense of the graphic on this page that shows the organ range. The center staff says "range of a typical organ with 2" to 16" pipes" and shows a range of C1 to C9 -- that's pretty clear. Then, to the right, there is a staff of "sound possibilities" with each C labeled with a pipe size, the implication being that the range of an organ with given min and max length will match the diagram. If that's the case, why is C7 marked as a 1" pipe when the middle staff shows the 2" pipe reaching C9? Similarly for the lowest note; the staff on the right has C1 for the 64' pipe, but the center graphic shows C1 for the 16' pipe.
Possibly I am just misreading it, but I can't be the only one. What is the actual range of a 64' to 1' organ? Assuming the middle graphic is correct for 16' to 2', then would it be C-1 to C10? 217.180.201.122 ( talk) 18:55, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
In the initial description of tracker action, I replaced "mechanical" with "only rods and levers". This might be a bit erroneous or imprecise, but "mechanical" was far worse - a straight pneumatic action is also entirely mechanical, and needs to be excluded. TooManyFingers ( talk) 19:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
After reviewing the article, I think the article might not meet the good article criteria anymore. My concerns are outlined below:
Is anyone willing to address the above concerns? If not, I may nominate this article at WP:GAR. Z1720 ( talk) 02:06, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The article has numerous uncited sentences. Deprecated and unreliable sources are used (such as Answers.com) while there is an extensive "Further reading" and "External links" sections that can be used as inline citations or removed. Z1720 ( talk) 13:41, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Pipe organ article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3 |
Pipe organ was one of the Music good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2020 and 11 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jessmhill. Peer reviewers: Alisa.coffey.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 06:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
The video showing Robert Huw Morgan performing BWV 542 on the Stanford Memorial Church's Fisk-Nanney organ has been removed several times (by various IP users) - many times with out reason given, but most recently with the reason that it is a "controversial performance displaying inappropriate style and technique".
I'm going to re-add the piece for this reason: The musician is a highly celebrated organ scholar; the instrument is a large and important example of a pipe organ at a highly notable location; the piece being performed is a notable composition by a notable composer. Additionally, the organ is said to reproduce the sound of Baroque music as authentically as possible, and this is an excellent performance with high quality sound recording.
Even if it were true that it was controversial and the style & technique are inappropriate, that doesn't merit deletion. This isn't an article about organ style and technique. If anyone still thinks that the video is inappropriate, please give detailed reasoning here. I'd like to see a source detailing why the performance was controversial. – jaksmata 17:30, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
The performance by Robert Morgan has again been eliminated. The organ is an important instrument and other recordings of it are important contributions to the field. This recording violates the historical principles of performance in Kittel, C.P.E. Bach, Sorge, and others. Such a discussion page is too small to quote them all and no sources have been given in support of this performance or in support of other statements made by the person initiating this discussion. In addition, the video is harming the reputation of Robert Morgan and it would be to his advantage for it to disappear.
If you want to put a video there, find another one. This is a page to promote the pipe organ and a section to promote Bach. It should not be used to promote or damage the reputation of anyone or anything else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pipe Fan ( talk • contribs) 17:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
This bit on masonic organists was tacked on to 20c repertoire before being deleted:
I disagree with the OR rational, though I agree it would be preferable to give the original references buried in List of Freemasons directly:
As I see it, the issue is where the material belongs. We already have a twofold history of construction and repertoire, so maybe a third section on the use of the instrument is called for: a general reader might well be interested in how an instrument that once accompanied the screams of martyrs came to have pride of place in the Western church, the origin of Organ recitals, how and when organ playing crept into Synagogues, whether indeed Johann Gottlieb Naumann wrote the earliest organ music for Masonic rites, the rise & fall of cinematic theater organs, etc... Sparafucil ( talk) 21:29, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
An image used in this article,
File:Fribourg orgue.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 29 November 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 00:41, 29 November 2011 (UTC) |
In September 2011, an IP editor added a 'Builders' section. Besides lacking substance, the section favors living pipe organ builders, bordering on promotion. Per WP:NOTDIRECTORY, Wikipedia is not a trade directory or a resource for conducting business. I propose that this section be removed. Perhaps a 'See also' section could be added under which would a appear a link to List of pipe organ builders. — Waldhorn ( talk) 03:12, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Many descriptions of pipe organs mention air pressure in ″ units (e.g. 100″ or 50″). May I ask, what is this unit and how to convert it to standard SI units? Is it inch of water? Or inch of mercury? Thanks! -- Xth-Floor ( talk) 10:43, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
As a newbie trying to follow how all these parts work, I find this bit ambiguous:
- Sometimes, a single rank of pipes may be able to be controlled by several stops, allowing...
Does this mean the rank in its entirety can be activated by multiple stops (for example, singly by 8' Diapason, and in combination with others by Mixture V)? Or does it mean that a portion of a rank can be controlled by a stop? I think the paragraph is trying to illustrate the latter.
If correct, something like this may help:
- Stops can be used to control portions of a rank, allowing... For example, a portion of an 8' Diapason rank may also be made available as a 4' Octave. When both of these stops are selected...
Written that way, the rest of the paragraph follows easily.
Pbyhistorian (
talk)
19:25, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1=
(
help)Footnotes 27 thru 30 are dead links. I believe that all external links must redirect to the site. I think that the dead links should be removed and replaced by links that redirect to the sites.-- Kevjgav ( talk) 10:42, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 23:41, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Apologies if this has been discussed before; I've been away from Wikipedia editing for a while. But the choice of "also known as" synonyms seems a bit random to me. We currently have "church organ, chapel organ, grand organ, or Baroque organ" but in that case why not "concert organ", or "cathedral organ", or "classical organ" or any of several other terms? Personally, I'd be tempted to leave it at "church organ" - of course church organs aren't strictly speaking necessarily pipe organs but it's probably the most widely-used alternative term in general parlance. Barnabypage ( talk) 17:27, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
How is that dude called in English? I wonder why the article doesn't mention the fact that with complex arrangements, the organist him-/herself can't be bothered with pulling and releasing stops, because organ sounds might be required to change rapidly. That's why there's an assistant to the organist, who does this (and who has preferably a little knowledge about organs as well). In my native German language, this dude is called a Registrant. But even with a small r, this term is virtually unknown in English---or, at least, extraordinarily rare. -quintaton- 2.242.182.127 ( talk) 17:11, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
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I can not find the method to change this word to the more correct grammatical form Schematic. Would a more knowledgeable editor please take a look at the description underlying this image which is opposite the heading "WIND SYSTEM" in this article. Thanks, Spyglasses 19:07, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Pipe organ is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Pipe organ until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 23:49, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Autodidact1 has changed BC/AD to BCE/CE on the article without reason, contrary to WP:Era. They did this in an edit on 22 July, and it was not mentioned in their edit summary. I reverted last night, pointing out WP:Era, but they've reverted that. Looking through their edit history, they seem to be doing it on more pages, these examples with not so civil edit summaries. -- Inops ( talk) 17:32, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
Not so; I said that the BCE usage was now the preferred one, at least among rational people who reject the Theocratic usage, "BC". Autodidact1 ( talk) 18:36, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
( Personal attack removed) Autodidact1 ( talk) 04:53, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
This article talks about "divisions". Where are they defined? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spinhirne ( talk • contribs) 12:53, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:52, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Per this edit by an IP, I understand the motivation for this change, but it seems like a tautology to me, and quite wordy, considering it's inside the infobox. I would say that pipe organs have more names than these two, such as "theater organ", am I right? Elizium23 ( talk) 01:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
I've added a brief summary of the Italian Baroque organ as I felt it has an important place in musical history, and is quite different to organs across the rest of Europe. My single reference is a book by Peter Williams. I'm painfully aware that generalisations can so easily knock up against multiple exceptions, so, for example, I've written that these organs were often single-manual affairs, based on Williams' statement "Second manuals remained exceptional..." even though plenty had them. Please do let me know if you disagree with anything I've written. I wanted to add something on pitch and temperament, as there seems to be an Italian flavour here (Williams quotes Antignati as saying that the pitch of an organ can be "come si vuole", "as you like", i.e. at the builder's discretion, depending on the local taste). But the matter of pitch and temperament goes way beyond Italy and is a huge subject, so I've kept out of it. But if anyone has any thoughts... Elemimele ( talk) 18:33, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
I just can't make sense of the graphic on this page that shows the organ range. The center staff says "range of a typical organ with 2" to 16" pipes" and shows a range of C1 to C9 -- that's pretty clear. Then, to the right, there is a staff of "sound possibilities" with each C labeled with a pipe size, the implication being that the range of an organ with given min and max length will match the diagram. If that's the case, why is C7 marked as a 1" pipe when the middle staff shows the 2" pipe reaching C9? Similarly for the lowest note; the staff on the right has C1 for the 64' pipe, but the center graphic shows C1 for the 16' pipe.
Possibly I am just misreading it, but I can't be the only one. What is the actual range of a 64' to 1' organ? Assuming the middle graphic is correct for 16' to 2', then would it be C-1 to C10? 217.180.201.122 ( talk) 18:55, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
In the initial description of tracker action, I replaced "mechanical" with "only rods and levers". This might be a bit erroneous or imprecise, but "mechanical" was far worse - a straight pneumatic action is also entirely mechanical, and needs to be excluded. TooManyFingers ( talk) 19:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
After reviewing the article, I think the article might not meet the good article criteria anymore. My concerns are outlined below:
Is anyone willing to address the above concerns? If not, I may nominate this article at WP:GAR. Z1720 ( talk) 02:06, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The article has numerous uncited sentences. Deprecated and unreliable sources are used (such as Answers.com) while there is an extensive "Further reading" and "External links" sections that can be used as inline citations or removed. Z1720 ( talk) 13:41, 22 June 2024 (UTC)