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Hello. I don't why this mountain have that name. I'm from Ukraine and we don't have this word Pop, only Pip. If Eng wikipedia try to be authoritative may be it should hears native nationals and make some right conclusion. --ДмитрОст (talk) 07:53, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below.
Dekimasuよ!06:06, 16 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose@
Roman Spinner: the nom just made those changes in Ukrainian Wikipedia, they are still in yellow, not blue. Піп Іван Чорногірський seems to be the correct term in Ukrainian sources, so the title should stay Mountain Name (Range Name) as at present.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
22:46, 9 March 2018 (UTC)reply
I accidentally dropped the first "r" in the proposed redlink above — it should have been
Pip Ivan Chornohirskiy. The other same-named peak,
Pip Ivan (Maramureș), straddles the Ukrainian-Romanian border, with English Wikipedia entry's main header using the Romanian name for the
Maramureș region (the Ukrainian name for the region is transliterated as
Marmaroshchyna). Thus, if instead of using the Romanian name, English Wikipedia used a transliteration of the Ukrainian name, the main header would have been
Pip Ivan Marmaros'kiy.
Taking the argument further, if the name of the peak under discussion were to be moved to
Pip Ivan Chornohirskiy, then the name of the other peak should be moved to the analogous
Pip Ivan Marmaros'kiy. Neither of the Pip Ivan peaks has an entry in the Romanian Wikipedia, but the
Romanian Wikipedia's entry for Maramureș confirms that the Romanian name for the peak is "Pop-Ivan", thus making English Wikipedia's main header,
Pip Ivan (Maramureș), a mix of Ukrainian and Romanian.
The use of parenthetical qualifiers "(Chornohora)" and "(Maramureș)" is problematic because it suggests that the qualifiers should be hidden by way of being piped as [[Pip Ivan (Chornohora)|Pip Ivan] and [[Pip Ivan (Maramureș)|Pip Ivan], rather than remain in the open through use of the above-mentioned disambiguating adjectives "Chonohirskiy" and "Marmaros'kiy", thus bypassing the need for qualifiers.
—Roman Spinner(talk)(contribs)05:52, 10 March 2018 (UTC)reply
The other article is a mix of [English mountain name and (English range name)] surely. Same as we have for other mountains in ranges straddling borders. No problem. But we can't use Ukrainian adjectives for the ranges as names in English. Can't see any reason to keep this RM open. Speedy CloseIn ictu oculi (
talk)
07:25, 10 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Since English exonyms do not contain accents or diacritics, the mountainous region does not have an English exonym and thus the Romanian name for the region becomes the English name. Most frequently in such cases, the diacritics are dropped and the name would be rendered in English-language texts as
Maramures.
Most likely, the reason for English use of the Romanian "
Maramures" rather than the Ukrainian transliteration "
Marmaroshchyna", is the obvious fact that the Romanian language, unlike the Ukrainian, uses the Latin alphabet, thus obviating the need for transliteration (and, while at it, in this case, uses fewer letters). On the other hand, the peak which is the subject of this nomination, is contained entirely within Ukraine and, as a result, there is no option other than transliteration.
—Roman Spinner(talk)(contribs)16:14, 10 March 2018 (UTC)reply
While most of the comment's content does, indeed, relate to the other Pip Ivan article,
Pip Ivan (Maramureș), it was written in response to the previous posting's words, "The other article is a mix of [English mountain name and (English range name)] surely." Since the two
Pip Ivan articles should use analogous forms in formulating their main title headers — either with qualifiers "(Chornohora)" and "(Maramureș)" or with disambiguating adjectives "Chornohirskiy" and "Marmaros'kiy" — I posted notice of this discussion at
Talk:Pip Ivan (Maramureș) and
Talk:Pip Ivan.
—Roman Spinner(talk)(contribs)21:01, 11 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Ah I see. but "Chornohirskiy" and "Marmaros'kiy" are Ukrainian geographical adjectives, not the names of the ranges, so we can't use them in English.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
08:41, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
This article is part of WikiProject Mountains, a project to systematically present
information on mountains. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page (see
Contributing FAQ for more information), or visit the
project page where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion.MountainsWikipedia:WikiProject MountainsTemplate:WikiProject MountainsMountain articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Ukraine on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine articles
Hello. I don't why this mountain have that name. I'm from Ukraine and we don't have this word Pop, only Pip. If Eng wikipedia try to be authoritative may be it should hears native nationals and make some right conclusion. --ДмитрОст (talk) 07:53, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below.
Dekimasuよ!06:06, 16 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose@
Roman Spinner: the nom just made those changes in Ukrainian Wikipedia, they are still in yellow, not blue. Піп Іван Чорногірський seems to be the correct term in Ukrainian sources, so the title should stay Mountain Name (Range Name) as at present.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
22:46, 9 March 2018 (UTC)reply
I accidentally dropped the first "r" in the proposed redlink above — it should have been
Pip Ivan Chornohirskiy. The other same-named peak,
Pip Ivan (Maramureș), straddles the Ukrainian-Romanian border, with English Wikipedia entry's main header using the Romanian name for the
Maramureș region (the Ukrainian name for the region is transliterated as
Marmaroshchyna). Thus, if instead of using the Romanian name, English Wikipedia used a transliteration of the Ukrainian name, the main header would have been
Pip Ivan Marmaros'kiy.
Taking the argument further, if the name of the peak under discussion were to be moved to
Pip Ivan Chornohirskiy, then the name of the other peak should be moved to the analogous
Pip Ivan Marmaros'kiy. Neither of the Pip Ivan peaks has an entry in the Romanian Wikipedia, but the
Romanian Wikipedia's entry for Maramureș confirms that the Romanian name for the peak is "Pop-Ivan", thus making English Wikipedia's main header,
Pip Ivan (Maramureș), a mix of Ukrainian and Romanian.
The use of parenthetical qualifiers "(Chornohora)" and "(Maramureș)" is problematic because it suggests that the qualifiers should be hidden by way of being piped as [[Pip Ivan (Chornohora)|Pip Ivan] and [[Pip Ivan (Maramureș)|Pip Ivan], rather than remain in the open through use of the above-mentioned disambiguating adjectives "Chonohirskiy" and "Marmaros'kiy", thus bypassing the need for qualifiers.
—Roman Spinner(talk)(contribs)05:52, 10 March 2018 (UTC)reply
The other article is a mix of [English mountain name and (English range name)] surely. Same as we have for other mountains in ranges straddling borders. No problem. But we can't use Ukrainian adjectives for the ranges as names in English. Can't see any reason to keep this RM open. Speedy CloseIn ictu oculi (
talk)
07:25, 10 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Since English exonyms do not contain accents or diacritics, the mountainous region does not have an English exonym and thus the Romanian name for the region becomes the English name. Most frequently in such cases, the diacritics are dropped and the name would be rendered in English-language texts as
Maramures.
Most likely, the reason for English use of the Romanian "
Maramures" rather than the Ukrainian transliteration "
Marmaroshchyna", is the obvious fact that the Romanian language, unlike the Ukrainian, uses the Latin alphabet, thus obviating the need for transliteration (and, while at it, in this case, uses fewer letters). On the other hand, the peak which is the subject of this nomination, is contained entirely within Ukraine and, as a result, there is no option other than transliteration.
—Roman Spinner(talk)(contribs)16:14, 10 March 2018 (UTC)reply
While most of the comment's content does, indeed, relate to the other Pip Ivan article,
Pip Ivan (Maramureș), it was written in response to the previous posting's words, "The other article is a mix of [English mountain name and (English range name)] surely." Since the two
Pip Ivan articles should use analogous forms in formulating their main title headers — either with qualifiers "(Chornohora)" and "(Maramureș)" or with disambiguating adjectives "Chornohirskiy" and "Marmaros'kiy" — I posted notice of this discussion at
Talk:Pip Ivan (Maramureș) and
Talk:Pip Ivan.
—Roman Spinner(talk)(contribs)21:01, 11 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Ah I see. but "Chornohirskiy" and "Marmaros'kiy" are Ukrainian geographical adjectives, not the names of the ranges, so we can't use them in English.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
08:41, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.