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This new section looks like an advertisement for this group. Can this be worked into one of the other sections?
Badagnani 10:10, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Knowa Lazarus and the Q-York Senate Hailing from the streets of Queens, New York it is lively storytelling, animated flows, true to life lyrics, clever punch lines, charasmatic delivery and supreme freestyle capabilities that make the recipe for Knowa Lazarus' success. More than just a rapper, Knowa is also an ambitious and established businessman, and is known for his ability to close big deals for his company Q-York Entertainment, Inc. By independently promoting manufacturing and distributing their music K.L. and the Q-York Senate are revolutionising the industry thru their ingenious and resourceful marketing methods they are the definition of "making something out of nothing". Through their unique sound and style, K.L. and the Q-York Senate are erasing the divisions between underground and mainstream Hip-Hop, answering the cries and begs of the masses for a collective that represents all under Hip-Hop's umbrella.
The detailed Native Guns and Knowa Lazarus info belongs on separate pages for those individual artists. Badagnani 10:53, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
"as early as 1982 local breakdancing crews like The Eclipse, Ground Control and Info-Clash Breakers became mainstays in local parks and malls in the Philippines such as Glorietta Mall, which was an early hotspot for breakers"''
1. just adding info: andrew e and j smooth mc (of bass rhyme posse) were members of ground control
2. you can also add that bass rhyme posse was the first rap group in the philippines. although their album was never really a hit, they are still the first group to release an album and is recognized as the first rap group. their website is http://bassrhymeposse.tk. you can also find some more info on pinoy hip-hop history there
3. you can also add DJ KID. i forgot his name but he used to be andrew e's dj
4. you can also add rapasia as one of the pioneer rap groups in the philippines. one of the members is martin "bronx" magalona who is francis m's brother. also, rapi boys and jaimie baby.
thanks!
oh ok. sorry, i'm a newbie and i wasn't sure how things work...i'll add it then...thanks =)-User Pnoi
I see what you mean, but I just thought that because of the fact that alot of the rap artists (in the Philippines mainly) do not have myspace.com pages readily available (those are majority Filipino-American rap artists), whereas with the current format all the samples (both Filipino and Fil-Am) are available on one page rather than clicking to different sites all over the net. Most Philippine artists tracks are not as openly available as their Fil-Am counterparts as I had to extensively comb the net for those records. But point taken, should we open up a designated section for the myspace.com links? Perhaps re-listing all the myspace.com links under the link section of the page? thx for your input! Wikipedian13 23:38, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I've just gone through the external links section with the guideline open in another tab. There was, in the end, nothing that matched the inclusion requirements. Links to individual artists are almost never appropiate in an article about a style unless they are iconic or define the genre. Even in that instance, they should be incorported into the article as prose. - brenneman {L} 16:35, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
According to the
verification policy, we need to be able from what's in the article to verify something. A red link, that is to say just a name in a list, does not provide any citation on its own. In most cases, sufficient references are expected to be found in an extant articles. It's per this policy to remove red links from the quasi-see also section, as well as those external links that didn't meet the guideline linked above.
brenneman
{L} 16:58, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
This article in some of its forms violates many policies. These include notability requirements, fair use laws, wikipedia manual of style, and others.
This is not an attack on the people who used their time to help this article. I am merely going to slim it down.
I will split my cleanup into multiple, modular edits.
What I will be doing
I appreciate the work that has gone into this, but it is just not acceptable for our encyclopedia. Please list your objections or comments to my cleanup below. -- mboverload @ 09:29, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I really think the reduction in pictures, at least, is way more constructive than adding more would be. The article had way too many pictures before. The rest I'm not so sure about. — Simetrical ( talk • contribs) 09:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I would just like to say upon further review of my actions, I did "jump in" too fast without consulting the talk page for opinions of people who are more knowledgeable on the subject. I am sorry for any feelings this may have caused, I was still in the stages of "holy crap there's way too many pictures here" =) -- mboverload @ 10:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
BBOY/BGirl Section
Where did all the information of Filipino B-boys and B-girls go? -gm4
Before we do anything, I think we should start on the least controversial part. I think that is cleaning of the list of "notable" people. I propose we delete all the links to Myspace bands first. I also think we need someone who knows a lot about the subject to severely reduce the number of notable bands/mcs/people. All the red links maybe? -- mboverload @ 19:30, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
As anyone can see, most of the groups on those lists are red linked - We don't even know if they exist at all. Can I get a volunteer to clean all of them out except the really, really important ones? -- mboverload @ 01:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
What really is going on here? The initial two editors bent on blanking huge areas of content admitted within hours of their first massive edits that they had acted too soon, without first discussing here with the regular editors in this article. Now this -- an editor repeatedly removes mention of a documentary film on this subject? This has gone too far. This sort of thing does not create a feeling of community here and definitely does not help users wishing to learn more about this subject and be steered in the right direction. I've experienced the same antipathy toward this art form in the past and wish I could understand this mode of "editing." Let's please respect others' contributions, would that be all right? Badagnani 09:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Please cease reverting me. I assure you, anything with only 17 google hits, which seems almost impossible since a video I posted on youtube got more than that, is not notable. I won't revert again until you respond. -- mboverload @ 09:00, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
My feeling is that editors who choose to remove mention of this documentary film, which may be the only documentary film so far to document this generally little known hip hop subculture, are not doing so in the interests of the users of this encyclopedia. If there were multiple films documenting this subject and this was the least important of them, it would be a different story. One purpose of our articles is to steer readers in the right direction as to where to find more good information on a subject. The repeated deletions seem to be done for purely mean-spirited purposes, and not in the interests of the subject nor our readers. Badagnani 09:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Until you can show a reason for this film being included, I will be removing it soon. -- mboverload @ 09:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
If you've been with Wikipedia for any length of time you'll know that one of the notability criteria is being "the most prominent exponent of a style." In this case, this film is the most prominent exponent of this genre as it appears to be the only documentary film about the subject, and thus notable. It could be worked into the text or left "as is" in the films section, as is normal for other musical genres which have documentary films about them. It all goes toward steering our readers in the right direction to find good further information about a subject. Badagnani 10:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
This is Jayo Santiago, webmasta and creator of Pinoy Hip-Hop. I also write Flip-Hop online back in 1997 and PINOYRAP.COM in 2004 where some of the sources here came from.
Anyway, I have decided to rewrite the Philippine section of Pinoy Hip-Hop and make it more accurate. I also decided to leave the FIlipino-American section.
Pinoyhiphopph ( talk) 13:03, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
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In an earlier version of the article it is written that they started their rap group in 1972. Which is impossible as hip hop started in the USA around that time and didn't release anything until the late 1970s were it was imported in the Philippines, they may have had other musical endeavors but not Hip Hop. A website that copies and paste everything from Wikipedia says they started in in 1989 " http://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/304726". So I choose to write in the 1980s. Any publications outside of blogspot covers this? Filmman3000 ( talk) 17:46, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
This is Jayo Santiago also known by my graffiti name, Flip-1. I also created pinoyrap.com back in the early 2000 and is predecessor, Flip-Hop Online back in 1997. This article has been experiencing alot of issues and I decided to fix some of it.
In addition of redoing the paragraphs.
As of now, some of those I've fixed are,
- replacing "barrio" with "barangay". While barrio is also a term used to describe a neighborhood, more Filipinos use the word barangay.
- omitted the sentence, "Hip hop music found its way to the Philippines back when the country was under American rule." The Philippines gain independence back in 1946 and hip-hop developed back in the 1970s.
- omitted Vincent Dafallong's Okay Sa-Rap album in the Birth of a Movement section as that album was released in 1991.
- respelled to George Javier instead of Dyords Javier as this was the title printed in the album.
Themanilaxperience ( talk) 12:31, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
That is because many of these artists do not even have a website and if they do, it is in social media. So what are other reliable sources then?
To be honest many of the content that is currently written in that article are either incomplete or have the wrong information. Here are some of them,
- Filo Rap is not a widely used term.
- Barrio is not a common term used to describe neighborhoods in cities and towns around The Philippines.
- Vincent Daffalong's album, "Okay Sa-rap" was released in 1991, not the early 1980s. But his tracks, "Ispraken Delight" and "Nunal" were recorded in the early 1980s but were released as singles.
- Andrew E was not based in LA. Also sections concerning him are flip-flopping when instead should have a more organized paragraph.
- Vivian Velez is an actress, not an actor.
- There is a long paragraph given to Pamilia Dimagiba, while their parent group, Urban Flow receives little or no mention in that section.
Themanilaxperience (
talk) 01:26, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Francis Magalona is not Married with Pia here in the Philippines because Pia Arroy is still married with her husband. 136.158.16.8 ( talk) 06:23, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Pinoy hip hop article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This new section looks like an advertisement for this group. Can this be worked into one of the other sections?
Badagnani 10:10, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Knowa Lazarus and the Q-York Senate Hailing from the streets of Queens, New York it is lively storytelling, animated flows, true to life lyrics, clever punch lines, charasmatic delivery and supreme freestyle capabilities that make the recipe for Knowa Lazarus' success. More than just a rapper, Knowa is also an ambitious and established businessman, and is known for his ability to close big deals for his company Q-York Entertainment, Inc. By independently promoting manufacturing and distributing their music K.L. and the Q-York Senate are revolutionising the industry thru their ingenious and resourceful marketing methods they are the definition of "making something out of nothing". Through their unique sound and style, K.L. and the Q-York Senate are erasing the divisions between underground and mainstream Hip-Hop, answering the cries and begs of the masses for a collective that represents all under Hip-Hop's umbrella.
The detailed Native Guns and Knowa Lazarus info belongs on separate pages for those individual artists. Badagnani 10:53, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
"as early as 1982 local breakdancing crews like The Eclipse, Ground Control and Info-Clash Breakers became mainstays in local parks and malls in the Philippines such as Glorietta Mall, which was an early hotspot for breakers"''
1. just adding info: andrew e and j smooth mc (of bass rhyme posse) were members of ground control
2. you can also add that bass rhyme posse was the first rap group in the philippines. although their album was never really a hit, they are still the first group to release an album and is recognized as the first rap group. their website is http://bassrhymeposse.tk. you can also find some more info on pinoy hip-hop history there
3. you can also add DJ KID. i forgot his name but he used to be andrew e's dj
4. you can also add rapasia as one of the pioneer rap groups in the philippines. one of the members is martin "bronx" magalona who is francis m's brother. also, rapi boys and jaimie baby.
thanks!
oh ok. sorry, i'm a newbie and i wasn't sure how things work...i'll add it then...thanks =)-User Pnoi
I see what you mean, but I just thought that because of the fact that alot of the rap artists (in the Philippines mainly) do not have myspace.com pages readily available (those are majority Filipino-American rap artists), whereas with the current format all the samples (both Filipino and Fil-Am) are available on one page rather than clicking to different sites all over the net. Most Philippine artists tracks are not as openly available as their Fil-Am counterparts as I had to extensively comb the net for those records. But point taken, should we open up a designated section for the myspace.com links? Perhaps re-listing all the myspace.com links under the link section of the page? thx for your input! Wikipedian13 23:38, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I've just gone through the external links section with the guideline open in another tab. There was, in the end, nothing that matched the inclusion requirements. Links to individual artists are almost never appropiate in an article about a style unless they are iconic or define the genre. Even in that instance, they should be incorported into the article as prose. - brenneman {L} 16:35, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
According to the
verification policy, we need to be able from what's in the article to verify something. A red link, that is to say just a name in a list, does not provide any citation on its own. In most cases, sufficient references are expected to be found in an extant articles. It's per this policy to remove red links from the quasi-see also section, as well as those external links that didn't meet the guideline linked above.
brenneman
{L} 16:58, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
This article in some of its forms violates many policies. These include notability requirements, fair use laws, wikipedia manual of style, and others.
This is not an attack on the people who used their time to help this article. I am merely going to slim it down.
I will split my cleanup into multiple, modular edits.
What I will be doing
I appreciate the work that has gone into this, but it is just not acceptable for our encyclopedia. Please list your objections or comments to my cleanup below. -- mboverload @ 09:29, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I really think the reduction in pictures, at least, is way more constructive than adding more would be. The article had way too many pictures before. The rest I'm not so sure about. — Simetrical ( talk • contribs) 09:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I would just like to say upon further review of my actions, I did "jump in" too fast without consulting the talk page for opinions of people who are more knowledgeable on the subject. I am sorry for any feelings this may have caused, I was still in the stages of "holy crap there's way too many pictures here" =) -- mboverload @ 10:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
BBOY/BGirl Section
Where did all the information of Filipino B-boys and B-girls go? -gm4
Before we do anything, I think we should start on the least controversial part. I think that is cleaning of the list of "notable" people. I propose we delete all the links to Myspace bands first. I also think we need someone who knows a lot about the subject to severely reduce the number of notable bands/mcs/people. All the red links maybe? -- mboverload @ 19:30, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
As anyone can see, most of the groups on those lists are red linked - We don't even know if they exist at all. Can I get a volunteer to clean all of them out except the really, really important ones? -- mboverload @ 01:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
What really is going on here? The initial two editors bent on blanking huge areas of content admitted within hours of their first massive edits that they had acted too soon, without first discussing here with the regular editors in this article. Now this -- an editor repeatedly removes mention of a documentary film on this subject? This has gone too far. This sort of thing does not create a feeling of community here and definitely does not help users wishing to learn more about this subject and be steered in the right direction. I've experienced the same antipathy toward this art form in the past and wish I could understand this mode of "editing." Let's please respect others' contributions, would that be all right? Badagnani 09:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Please cease reverting me. I assure you, anything with only 17 google hits, which seems almost impossible since a video I posted on youtube got more than that, is not notable. I won't revert again until you respond. -- mboverload @ 09:00, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
My feeling is that editors who choose to remove mention of this documentary film, which may be the only documentary film so far to document this generally little known hip hop subculture, are not doing so in the interests of the users of this encyclopedia. If there were multiple films documenting this subject and this was the least important of them, it would be a different story. One purpose of our articles is to steer readers in the right direction as to where to find more good information on a subject. The repeated deletions seem to be done for purely mean-spirited purposes, and not in the interests of the subject nor our readers. Badagnani 09:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Until you can show a reason for this film being included, I will be removing it soon. -- mboverload @ 09:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
If you've been with Wikipedia for any length of time you'll know that one of the notability criteria is being "the most prominent exponent of a style." In this case, this film is the most prominent exponent of this genre as it appears to be the only documentary film about the subject, and thus notable. It could be worked into the text or left "as is" in the films section, as is normal for other musical genres which have documentary films about them. It all goes toward steering our readers in the right direction to find good further information about a subject. Badagnani 10:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
This is Jayo Santiago, webmasta and creator of Pinoy Hip-Hop. I also write Flip-Hop online back in 1997 and PINOYRAP.COM in 2004 where some of the sources here came from.
Anyway, I have decided to rewrite the Philippine section of Pinoy Hip-Hop and make it more accurate. I also decided to leave the FIlipino-American section.
Pinoyhiphopph ( talk) 13:03, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 15:17, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
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In an earlier version of the article it is written that they started their rap group in 1972. Which is impossible as hip hop started in the USA around that time and didn't release anything until the late 1970s were it was imported in the Philippines, they may have had other musical endeavors but not Hip Hop. A website that copies and paste everything from Wikipedia says they started in in 1989 " http://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/304726". So I choose to write in the 1980s. Any publications outside of blogspot covers this? Filmman3000 ( talk) 17:46, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
This is Jayo Santiago also known by my graffiti name, Flip-1. I also created pinoyrap.com back in the early 2000 and is predecessor, Flip-Hop Online back in 1997. This article has been experiencing alot of issues and I decided to fix some of it.
In addition of redoing the paragraphs.
As of now, some of those I've fixed are,
- replacing "barrio" with "barangay". While barrio is also a term used to describe a neighborhood, more Filipinos use the word barangay.
- omitted the sentence, "Hip hop music found its way to the Philippines back when the country was under American rule." The Philippines gain independence back in 1946 and hip-hop developed back in the 1970s.
- omitted Vincent Dafallong's Okay Sa-Rap album in the Birth of a Movement section as that album was released in 1991.
- respelled to George Javier instead of Dyords Javier as this was the title printed in the album.
Themanilaxperience ( talk) 12:31, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
That is because many of these artists do not even have a website and if they do, it is in social media. So what are other reliable sources then?
To be honest many of the content that is currently written in that article are either incomplete or have the wrong information. Here are some of them,
- Filo Rap is not a widely used term.
- Barrio is not a common term used to describe neighborhoods in cities and towns around The Philippines.
- Vincent Daffalong's album, "Okay Sa-rap" was released in 1991, not the early 1980s. But his tracks, "Ispraken Delight" and "Nunal" were recorded in the early 1980s but were released as singles.
- Andrew E was not based in LA. Also sections concerning him are flip-flopping when instead should have a more organized paragraph.
- Vivian Velez is an actress, not an actor.
- There is a long paragraph given to Pamilia Dimagiba, while their parent group, Urban Flow receives little or no mention in that section.
Themanilaxperience (
talk) 01:26, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Francis Magalona is not Married with Pia here in the Philippines because Pia Arroy is still married with her husband. 136.158.16.8 ( talk) 06:23, 22 October 2023 (UTC)