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No one can be totally comfortable with everything. But one thing is for sure, regardless of the census name error, this area is known by the singular version of the name. Pine Hill is just Pine Hill, no matter how you slice it. Pluralizing this name is an error. Norcalal 03:57, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. JPG-GR ( talk) 16:07, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Pine Hills, California → Pine Hill, California — See previous posts here. The article (the name for the community) is in error due to the CDP mistaken plural name for the community. The example for these issues is Lisco, Nebraska. The format is clear enough. Why not follow it? — Norcalal 06:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.Support if the article is written as the area on the edge of Eureka that is known as Pine Hill. Since "Pine Hills" is only a census construct, that will have to be made clear. Any definition of Pine Hill that includes areas like Westgate and Ridgewood are most definitely constructs that no one outside statisticians at the Census would consider as having any basis in reality beyond demographics. Norcalal 15:33, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone noticed that the area named Pine Hill as shown in the Humboldt County Neighborhoods/Urban Limit Line and Pine Hill Zoning is not the same area described by the Pine Hills CDP? The Pine Hill neighborhood is north of Herrick Ave while the Pine Hills CDP is to the south. The Pine Hill neighborhood appears to be more closely approximated by the Bayview CDP. The GNIS also has separate entries for both singular and plural forms with a similar difference in placement. U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Pine Hill and U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Pine Hills. The location of the U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Pine Hills Census Designated Place is closely aligned with the Pine Hills populated place. The GNIS citation for Pine Hill is Collected during Phase I data compilation (1976-1981) while the citation for Pine Hills is Census County/Townships, CDP's and incorporated cities - Bureau of Census, Geography Division, coordinates are located at the centroid. There is a GNIS record for U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Bayview from the Phase I data compilation which appears to be located at the northwest corner of both the Bayview CDP and the Pine Hill neighborhood plan.
The place is listed under "Pine Hill" in California's Geographic Names by David L. Durham, where it is described as district, 2.5 miles south of downtown Eureka ( 40°45′55″N 124°10′20″W / 40.76528°N 124.17222°W, near NE cor. sec. 3 T 4 N, R 1 W) Named on Eureka (1958) 7.5' quadrangle. The place was also called East Sunnyside and Tigerville, as well as Pine's Hill for Safford E. Pine, who had a dairy farm there. The USGS topographical map shows the summit of Pine Hill at the described location, or near the northeast corner of the intersection of Higgins St. and Union St.
I don't share the apparent faith that other have in the inerrancy of the U.S. Census Bureau, especially as regards the naming of CDPs. CDPs are nothing more than statistical abstractions that for convenience sometimes share the name of nearby features or neighborhoods. CDPs are not in any way official definitions of a locality. However, we need to be careful not to misrepresent the CDP data as representing something other than a relatively arbitrary assemblage of statistical data. That is, just because a CDP happens to have the same or a similar name as a nearby place name, they are not necessarily synonymous. In this particular case, I would not move the CDP article unless it can be positively determined that the Pine Hill place name has actually been subsumed by area defined by the CDP. That is, the statistics in the article are for the area defined by the CDP -- which may or may not actually correspond to the local place name of Pine Hill. older ≠ wiser 16:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
East Sunnyside and Tigerville are names lost to the local scene. Interesting you would mention Higgins and Union, as that would be very near the high point of the hill and the main intersection at which point Union Street is a direct shot north to the city limits of Eureka located. The area of PH does mostly spread from that intersection toward the south (and east and west). In Census data from 1981, they list the area with the correct name as Pine Hill along with two other later listings for "Pine Hills." in a slightly different place (by coordinates -
http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=108:2:2656074553574109::NO:::). Why the other two census community listings would refer to "Fields Landing" -see link above- is odd as that town is located to the south and west over by the bay - miles from Pine Hill). Perhaps this IS a construct of the Census, based in their need to group data, but with little or just "passing" respect for the community there (or near there?). If that is the case, I will construct a different article to include for Humboldt County related articles and bypass this weird Federal creation. The situation is so troublesome in relation to the local suburban neighborhood known as Pine Hill, that it demands resolution. Thank you to anyone who contributes...it has already been a valuable learning opportunity. Pine Hill is a very specific spot. There are others that are not. Norcalal 17:28, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
The coordinates provided in the article give the location of Pine Hills as existing in a place known as Westgate. This place is about 1.5 miles south southeast of Pine Hill. There is something very wrong here...unless it is a fabricated CDP with no real regard for Pine Hill. There is still a need to explore further. How do we determine if the coordinates listed in the article are exactly the same as the Census has for the CDP? Norcalal 21:19, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
To what extent is the Census Bureau the final arbiter of place names, even for CDPs? See Talk:Lisco, Nebraska#Lisco or Cisco? for a similar issue which was IMO far simpler.
Note also that the resolution in the case of Lisco/Cisco was quite simple... I asked the Census Bureau, who readily admitted their mistake. Andrewa ( talk) 19:45, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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Wondering how to edit this U.S. City Entry?
The
WikiProject U.S. Cities standards might help.
No one can be totally comfortable with everything. But one thing is for sure, regardless of the census name error, this area is known by the singular version of the name. Pine Hill is just Pine Hill, no matter how you slice it. Pluralizing this name is an error. Norcalal 03:57, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. JPG-GR ( talk) 16:07, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Pine Hills, California → Pine Hill, California — See previous posts here. The article (the name for the community) is in error due to the CDP mistaken plural name for the community. The example for these issues is Lisco, Nebraska. The format is clear enough. Why not follow it? — Norcalal 06:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.Support if the article is written as the area on the edge of Eureka that is known as Pine Hill. Since "Pine Hills" is only a census construct, that will have to be made clear. Any definition of Pine Hill that includes areas like Westgate and Ridgewood are most definitely constructs that no one outside statisticians at the Census would consider as having any basis in reality beyond demographics. Norcalal 15:33, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone noticed that the area named Pine Hill as shown in the Humboldt County Neighborhoods/Urban Limit Line and Pine Hill Zoning is not the same area described by the Pine Hills CDP? The Pine Hill neighborhood is north of Herrick Ave while the Pine Hills CDP is to the south. The Pine Hill neighborhood appears to be more closely approximated by the Bayview CDP. The GNIS also has separate entries for both singular and plural forms with a similar difference in placement. U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Pine Hill and U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Pine Hills. The location of the U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Pine Hills Census Designated Place is closely aligned with the Pine Hills populated place. The GNIS citation for Pine Hill is Collected during Phase I data compilation (1976-1981) while the citation for Pine Hills is Census County/Townships, CDP's and incorporated cities - Bureau of Census, Geography Division, coordinates are located at the centroid. There is a GNIS record for U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Bayview from the Phase I data compilation which appears to be located at the northwest corner of both the Bayview CDP and the Pine Hill neighborhood plan.
The place is listed under "Pine Hill" in California's Geographic Names by David L. Durham, where it is described as district, 2.5 miles south of downtown Eureka ( 40°45′55″N 124°10′20″W / 40.76528°N 124.17222°W, near NE cor. sec. 3 T 4 N, R 1 W) Named on Eureka (1958) 7.5' quadrangle. The place was also called East Sunnyside and Tigerville, as well as Pine's Hill for Safford E. Pine, who had a dairy farm there. The USGS topographical map shows the summit of Pine Hill at the described location, or near the northeast corner of the intersection of Higgins St. and Union St.
I don't share the apparent faith that other have in the inerrancy of the U.S. Census Bureau, especially as regards the naming of CDPs. CDPs are nothing more than statistical abstractions that for convenience sometimes share the name of nearby features or neighborhoods. CDPs are not in any way official definitions of a locality. However, we need to be careful not to misrepresent the CDP data as representing something other than a relatively arbitrary assemblage of statistical data. That is, just because a CDP happens to have the same or a similar name as a nearby place name, they are not necessarily synonymous. In this particular case, I would not move the CDP article unless it can be positively determined that the Pine Hill place name has actually been subsumed by area defined by the CDP. That is, the statistics in the article are for the area defined by the CDP -- which may or may not actually correspond to the local place name of Pine Hill. older ≠ wiser 16:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
East Sunnyside and Tigerville are names lost to the local scene. Interesting you would mention Higgins and Union, as that would be very near the high point of the hill and the main intersection at which point Union Street is a direct shot north to the city limits of Eureka located. The area of PH does mostly spread from that intersection toward the south (and east and west). In Census data from 1981, they list the area with the correct name as Pine Hill along with two other later listings for "Pine Hills." in a slightly different place (by coordinates -
http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=108:2:2656074553574109::NO:::). Why the other two census community listings would refer to "Fields Landing" -see link above- is odd as that town is located to the south and west over by the bay - miles from Pine Hill). Perhaps this IS a construct of the Census, based in their need to group data, but with little or just "passing" respect for the community there (or near there?). If that is the case, I will construct a different article to include for Humboldt County related articles and bypass this weird Federal creation. The situation is so troublesome in relation to the local suburban neighborhood known as Pine Hill, that it demands resolution. Thank you to anyone who contributes...it has already been a valuable learning opportunity. Pine Hill is a very specific spot. There are others that are not. Norcalal 17:28, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
The coordinates provided in the article give the location of Pine Hills as existing in a place known as Westgate. This place is about 1.5 miles south southeast of Pine Hill. There is something very wrong here...unless it is a fabricated CDP with no real regard for Pine Hill. There is still a need to explore further. How do we determine if the coordinates listed in the article are exactly the same as the Census has for the CDP? Norcalal 21:19, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
To what extent is the Census Bureau the final arbiter of place names, even for CDPs? See Talk:Lisco, Nebraska#Lisco or Cisco? for a similar issue which was IMO far simpler.
Note also that the resolution in the case of Lisco/Cisco was quite simple... I asked the Census Bureau, who readily admitted their mistake. Andrewa ( talk) 19:45, 8 October 2008 (UTC)