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Is there any connection with the Albanian plis? HairyDan 21:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
The fact that the Albanian plis is still today used by many Albanians while it is unknown for a common Greek is not a coincidence. Thus, I don't understand why Albanian heritage should be ignored. Not everything ancient in the Balkans is Greek. Arben Kita —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.73.199.89 ( talk) 11:31, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
As it says in the article. The freed slaves got their heads shaved before they put on the plis/qeleshe. My understanding of the word qeleshe is a a mixture between the albanian word for bald and the albanian word for wool. Qel meaning bald and lesh meaning wool.
I know for a fact that some albanians always shaved their heads, these albanians also wore the pileus/qeleshe as seen in the pictures below.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=401647824663678278&ei=7D8qSrCsGZzQ2wLaqf2vCQ&q=albania&emb=1
-- Durim Durimi ( talk) 20:08, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
It would be a shame if an article about the pileus didnt mention its only modern day remnant.
Leaving out the albanian part is a big mistake. What do you think?-- Durim Durimi ( talk) 20:29, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Phrygian cap indicates that the two are different things but the articles on Pileus indicates they are two names for the same thing. We should be consistent. -- Beardo ( talk) 04:23, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
is it a coincidence that Illyrian in albanian is The free people .. Illyria is to be free in albanian? with this in mind, the plis is a simble of liberty, "liberty cap" as mentioned in the article. so connecting the two, illyrian cap in albanian means liberty cap. coincidence or not, the two go together real good even when adding modern day albanian language, and the fact that albanians still use the plis today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.107.247.98 ( talk) 10:24, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
I still fail to see a connection of those two. Stipcevic states "It is generally agreed, and rightly so, that the modern Albanian cap originates directly from the similar cap worn by the Illyrians." and this proves nothing; obviously the ancient Pileus, a conical hat is something diferrent from what Stipcevic describes. Alexikoua ( talk) 20:53, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
By checking the full quote Stipcevic states that "the modern Albanian cap" isn't a conical one. "It is generally agreed, and rightly so, that the modern Albanian cap originates directly from the similar cap worn by the Illyrians. Another type of cap is a conical leather one, resembling the modern fur cap or subara." I assume this part should be moved to the correct article (subara). Alexikoua ( talk) 21:10, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
In order to avoid any misunderstanding, i should clarify that the reason i wrote "2nd or 3rd century AD", is because, even though page 218 does indeed mention the date 100-120 AD for the MC 922 specimen, the relevant image on page 220 has a caption that says "second-third century AD". Since the latter period (101-300) includes the former (100-120), i went with it and also made a reference to page 220. In any case, i just searched for another source and it appears that 100-120 AD is indeed the correct one; read paragraph 21. Demetrios1993 ( talk) 09:06, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
but the pileus was not among themis your original research which contrasts with RS. – Βατο ( talk) 20:15, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Soprattutto durante il periodo degli imperatori-soldati prevalgono nettamente gli influssi delle province illiriche, che si esplicano nell'ampia diffusione del pilleus pannonico...Stop disruptive edits, please. – Βατο ( talk) 14:27, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
A possibly Illyrian is depicted wearing a pileus has been hesitantly identified on a Roman frieze from Tilurium in Dalmatia; the monument could be part of a trophy base erected by the Romans after the Great Illyrian Revolt (6–9 BCE).is incorrect. Do you at least read what you write? I restored the rewording made by Demetrios, with the hypothetical link reflected by "hesitantly". – Βατο ( talk) 14:43, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Βατο, the entry from the dictionary De re vestiaria libellus, ex Bayfio excerptus by Charles Estienne and Lazare de Baïf, describes a different hat that the 1972 reference mentions as cibaria; it is actually rendered incorrectly, because the original text says cyrbasia ( see here), referring to the Persian headgear kyrbasia. In short, the kyrbasia of antiquity is described as an Albanian-looking hat (as it was observed in the 16th century), or a high felt cap in the form of a cone (pileus altus in speciem coni eductus). A translation should be included per MOS:FOREIGNQUOTE. By the way, aside of kyrbasia, a number of other hats are also being described as pilei – including petasos – which shows that in this context the word is simply used to describe a cap or a felt cap, and can thus be translated as such. Demetrios1993 ( talk) 08:08, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
The 1542 Latin dictionary BAYFIO <<De re vestiaria>> describes an Albanian hat as pileus altus in speciem coni eductusis in agreement with the sources. However feel free to reword it keeping the relevant information. Yes, the word pileus was generally used to describe a felt hat, and I think brimless felt hats in particular. – Βατο ( talk) 09:21, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
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Is there any connection with the Albanian plis? HairyDan 21:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
The fact that the Albanian plis is still today used by many Albanians while it is unknown for a common Greek is not a coincidence. Thus, I don't understand why Albanian heritage should be ignored. Not everything ancient in the Balkans is Greek. Arben Kita —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.73.199.89 ( talk) 11:31, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
As it says in the article. The freed slaves got their heads shaved before they put on the plis/qeleshe. My understanding of the word qeleshe is a a mixture between the albanian word for bald and the albanian word for wool. Qel meaning bald and lesh meaning wool.
I know for a fact that some albanians always shaved their heads, these albanians also wore the pileus/qeleshe as seen in the pictures below.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=401647824663678278&ei=7D8qSrCsGZzQ2wLaqf2vCQ&q=albania&emb=1
-- Durim Durimi ( talk) 20:08, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
It would be a shame if an article about the pileus didnt mention its only modern day remnant.
Leaving out the albanian part is a big mistake. What do you think?-- Durim Durimi ( talk) 20:29, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Phrygian cap indicates that the two are different things but the articles on Pileus indicates they are two names for the same thing. We should be consistent. -- Beardo ( talk) 04:23, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
is it a coincidence that Illyrian in albanian is The free people .. Illyria is to be free in albanian? with this in mind, the plis is a simble of liberty, "liberty cap" as mentioned in the article. so connecting the two, illyrian cap in albanian means liberty cap. coincidence or not, the two go together real good even when adding modern day albanian language, and the fact that albanians still use the plis today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.107.247.98 ( talk) 10:24, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
I still fail to see a connection of those two. Stipcevic states "It is generally agreed, and rightly so, that the modern Albanian cap originates directly from the similar cap worn by the Illyrians." and this proves nothing; obviously the ancient Pileus, a conical hat is something diferrent from what Stipcevic describes. Alexikoua ( talk) 20:53, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
By checking the full quote Stipcevic states that "the modern Albanian cap" isn't a conical one. "It is generally agreed, and rightly so, that the modern Albanian cap originates directly from the similar cap worn by the Illyrians. Another type of cap is a conical leather one, resembling the modern fur cap or subara." I assume this part should be moved to the correct article (subara). Alexikoua ( talk) 21:10, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
In order to avoid any misunderstanding, i should clarify that the reason i wrote "2nd or 3rd century AD", is because, even though page 218 does indeed mention the date 100-120 AD for the MC 922 specimen, the relevant image on page 220 has a caption that says "second-third century AD". Since the latter period (101-300) includes the former (100-120), i went with it and also made a reference to page 220. In any case, i just searched for another source and it appears that 100-120 AD is indeed the correct one; read paragraph 21. Demetrios1993 ( talk) 09:06, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
but the pileus was not among themis your original research which contrasts with RS. – Βατο ( talk) 20:15, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Soprattutto durante il periodo degli imperatori-soldati prevalgono nettamente gli influssi delle province illiriche, che si esplicano nell'ampia diffusione del pilleus pannonico...Stop disruptive edits, please. – Βατο ( talk) 14:27, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
A possibly Illyrian is depicted wearing a pileus has been hesitantly identified on a Roman frieze from Tilurium in Dalmatia; the monument could be part of a trophy base erected by the Romans after the Great Illyrian Revolt (6–9 BCE).is incorrect. Do you at least read what you write? I restored the rewording made by Demetrios, with the hypothetical link reflected by "hesitantly". – Βατο ( talk) 14:43, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Βατο, the entry from the dictionary De re vestiaria libellus, ex Bayfio excerptus by Charles Estienne and Lazare de Baïf, describes a different hat that the 1972 reference mentions as cibaria; it is actually rendered incorrectly, because the original text says cyrbasia ( see here), referring to the Persian headgear kyrbasia. In short, the kyrbasia of antiquity is described as an Albanian-looking hat (as it was observed in the 16th century), or a high felt cap in the form of a cone (pileus altus in speciem coni eductus). A translation should be included per MOS:FOREIGNQUOTE. By the way, aside of kyrbasia, a number of other hats are also being described as pilei – including petasos – which shows that in this context the word is simply used to describe a cap or a felt cap, and can thus be translated as such. Demetrios1993 ( talk) 08:08, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
The 1542 Latin dictionary BAYFIO <<De re vestiaria>> describes an Albanian hat as pileus altus in speciem coni eductusis in agreement with the sources. However feel free to reword it keeping the relevant information. Yes, the word pileus was generally used to describe a felt hat, and I think brimless felt hats in particular. – Βατο ( talk) 09:21, 4 May 2022 (UTC)