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Stan Shebs lifted this article from its pedestrian start. User:Wetman
I've added a link to a recent BBC article on the Brazza page. It would be a good idea to dig the article and extract some useful information to be wikified. Hugo Dufort 04:49, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
It should be noted, however, that there are no historical documents to substantiate Obenga's claims. In any case, Brazzaville remains one of the last remaining African capitals named after a European colonizer, and this fact in itself has generated some debate among Congolese.
Please make appropraite citation... Nzingamina
It should be noted that references made about De Brazza's "splendid work" in the Congo cannot be substantiate by Congolese people and therefore are not historically correct or validated by Congolese. In any case, Congolese people have the right to express how they view those that colonized them. Nzingamina
I've removed the statement "Many Congolese protested the mausoleum which celebrates a man who enslaved, colonized and raped a Congolese woman.", which was inserted clumsily into a sentence and appears to be a complete contradiction of what has been published about de Brazza. To be restored it needs an appropriate citation. Kahuzi 14:18, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
References for the mausoleum controversy and the of rape of a princess from Mbe by De Brazza are sited at mwinga.org. nzingamina 17:37, 13 December 2006
An internet article, discussing such a politically volatile subject, is not a decent citation. 41.241.14.155 19:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Wikepedia allows internet citations for articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.253.12 ( talk) 04:04, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
My attempts to insert "The decision to honour Pierre de Brazza as a founding father of the Republic of the Congo elicited some controversy and protest." has been reverted twice now by nzingamina without any comments or explanation. In the absence of any comment it seems he is objecting to dropping the text "among many Congolese" even though objections were not limited to people living in Congo, but also has been criticised abroad. That the dedication was attended by several national leaders is also relevant to it being within the controversy sub-section (e.g. there are two conflicting viewpoints)
However, before I reinsert this text, it would be helpful if Nzingamina (or a fellow editor) could identify where Théophile Obenga actually provides reliable evidence of the allegation of rape in the only reference which he provided. It is an hour long narration in French, not easy listening, at what minute does he make this accusation? Can someone supply a printed or published document - preferably in English for the English WP - that counts as a reliable source? As this is not in the normal text books it needs to meet the criteria of WP:V otherwise it risks exclusion as being WP:OR. Ephebi ( talk) 23:34, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Ephebi, please prove that the Mausoleum Controversy should be part of your celebration of the Death and Memorial to De Brazza. It is my understanding that this section of Wikipedia was approved for nearly two years, and I fail to understand why you would remove it since it is referenced. I appreciate that others have given their insightful point of view and agreed that this section deserves it's own heading. I thank Jonathan Jonathanwallace for his insights. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.66.230.128 ( talk) 00:35, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
-> The text below has been moved from Jonathanwallace's talk page:
-> (responded to allegations and absence of WP:AGF privately Ephebi ( talk) 14:18, 20 January 2011 (UTC))
If the question is just about whether there should be a heading using the word "controversy", the article should be looked at as a whole. It seems that the controversy is part of a section that would normally be called in biographical articles on the Wikipedia "Death and Legacy". Certainly "Mausoleum Controversy" should be at best a subsection of that and not co-equal. In truth, it is a subsection of "Brazzaville Mausoleum". Given the relatively short length of the entire "Death and Legacy" section, I would suggest that no subsections are required. That is easily fixed. I suspect that the wrangling is more deep-seated than that as the article in African Affairs points out. Perhaps that controversy can be objectified and summarized in a single sentence. -- Bejnar ( talk) 15:55, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Pierre Savorgnan de Brazza. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on September 14, 2018. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
Stan Shebs lifted this article from its pedestrian start. User:Wetman
I've added a link to a recent BBC article on the Brazza page. It would be a good idea to dig the article and extract some useful information to be wikified. Hugo Dufort 04:49, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
It should be noted, however, that there are no historical documents to substantiate Obenga's claims. In any case, Brazzaville remains one of the last remaining African capitals named after a European colonizer, and this fact in itself has generated some debate among Congolese.
Please make appropraite citation... Nzingamina
It should be noted that references made about De Brazza's "splendid work" in the Congo cannot be substantiate by Congolese people and therefore are not historically correct or validated by Congolese. In any case, Congolese people have the right to express how they view those that colonized them. Nzingamina
I've removed the statement "Many Congolese protested the mausoleum which celebrates a man who enslaved, colonized and raped a Congolese woman.", which was inserted clumsily into a sentence and appears to be a complete contradiction of what has been published about de Brazza. To be restored it needs an appropriate citation. Kahuzi 14:18, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
References for the mausoleum controversy and the of rape of a princess from Mbe by De Brazza are sited at mwinga.org. nzingamina 17:37, 13 December 2006
An internet article, discussing such a politically volatile subject, is not a decent citation. 41.241.14.155 19:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Wikepedia allows internet citations for articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.253.12 ( talk) 04:04, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
My attempts to insert "The decision to honour Pierre de Brazza as a founding father of the Republic of the Congo elicited some controversy and protest." has been reverted twice now by nzingamina without any comments or explanation. In the absence of any comment it seems he is objecting to dropping the text "among many Congolese" even though objections were not limited to people living in Congo, but also has been criticised abroad. That the dedication was attended by several national leaders is also relevant to it being within the controversy sub-section (e.g. there are two conflicting viewpoints)
However, before I reinsert this text, it would be helpful if Nzingamina (or a fellow editor) could identify where Théophile Obenga actually provides reliable evidence of the allegation of rape in the only reference which he provided. It is an hour long narration in French, not easy listening, at what minute does he make this accusation? Can someone supply a printed or published document - preferably in English for the English WP - that counts as a reliable source? As this is not in the normal text books it needs to meet the criteria of WP:V otherwise it risks exclusion as being WP:OR. Ephebi ( talk) 23:34, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Ephebi, please prove that the Mausoleum Controversy should be part of your celebration of the Death and Memorial to De Brazza. It is my understanding that this section of Wikipedia was approved for nearly two years, and I fail to understand why you would remove it since it is referenced. I appreciate that others have given their insightful point of view and agreed that this section deserves it's own heading. I thank Jonathan Jonathanwallace for his insights. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.66.230.128 ( talk) 00:35, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
-> The text below has been moved from Jonathanwallace's talk page:
-> (responded to allegations and absence of WP:AGF privately Ephebi ( talk) 14:18, 20 January 2011 (UTC))
If the question is just about whether there should be a heading using the word "controversy", the article should be looked at as a whole. It seems that the controversy is part of a section that would normally be called in biographical articles on the Wikipedia "Death and Legacy". Certainly "Mausoleum Controversy" should be at best a subsection of that and not co-equal. In truth, it is a subsection of "Brazzaville Mausoleum". Given the relatively short length of the entire "Death and Legacy" section, I would suggest that no subsections are required. That is easily fixed. I suspect that the wrangling is more deep-seated than that as the article in African Affairs points out. Perhaps that controversy can be objectified and summarized in a single sentence. -- Bejnar ( talk) 15:55, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Pierre Savorgnan de Brazza. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:15, 28 November 2017 (UTC)